Rear-Wheel Drive More Fun Than Front-Wheel Drive?

[Maka]

The title says it all, for the record imo no way Fwd is better or more fun than a Rwd lol! Here's the obligatory interesting link -

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...t-wheel-drive/

Also around the better twisty sections of the Putty Rd (NSW, a well known drivers road between Wilberforce & Singleton just north west of Sydney) a sporty Fwd market competitor to my Au xr6 vct (a very committed v6 Tiburon) could not keep up within the speed limits.

cheers, Maka

[BAWITHLOT]

I think you are comparing chalk with cheese here. it not about the car but more the skills of the driver!

[Maka]

I did say a very commited driver lol! Swap drivers around probably same result imo.

cheers, Maka

[Sar4890]

I must admit to having a preference for rear wheel drive cars especially falcons but having said that i've recently been doing all of my country runs in the missus's focus and that is starting to sway my stance a bit.My favourite twisty bit on the journey is between Port Augusta and Quorn and ive found the little Focus to be a very agile car whilest it may not have the outright grunt its cornering ability is amazing.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Sar4890

I must admit to having a preference for rear wheel drive cars especially falcons but having said that i've recently been doing all of my country runs in the missus's focus and that is starting to sway my stance a bit.My favourite twisty bit on the journey is between Port Augusta and Quorn and ive found the little Focus to be a very agile car whilest it may not have the outright grunt its cornering ability is amazing.

Yep, the Focus are well known good handlers & if you can balance the car on the throttle & get lift off oversteer, they are rapid & fun on the right roads.

cheers, Maka

[solarite_guy]

I'm not sure what to think of the article.

Is the author looking for material by re-framing an old question?

They both have their place, strengths and weaknesses.

I am surprised I like my fwd 5 speed ZX2. I bought for cheap transportation and it turns out to be a little sporty and fun package.

Looking back though, my '69 MachI was set up like a SCCA B-Prod club racer, yet it was my daily driver. That car provided me the most fun on 4 wheels of any street car I have owned. The 351W was only good for so much power. Mixed with the wide ratio toploader a circuit ready suspension and detroit locker, it was a load of fun.

The most fun? The Mach I, not terribly far behind with it's own form of fun, the little ZX2 and close on it's heals my old Ranger 4x4 with off road STX package.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

I'm not sure what to think of the article.

Is the author looking for material by re-framing an old question?

They both have their place, strengths and weaknesses.

I am surprised I like my fwd 5 speed ZX2. I bought for cheap transportation and it turns out to be a little sporty and fun package.

Looking back though, my '69 MachI was set up like a SCCA B-Prod club racer, yet it was my daily driver. That car provided me the most fun on 4 wheels of any street car I have owned. The 351W was only good for so much power. Mixed with the wide ratio toploader a circuit ready suspension and detroit locker, it was a load of fun.

The most fun? The Mach I, not terribly far behind with it's own form of fun, the little ZX2 and close on it's heals my old Ranger 4x4 with off road STX package.

The versatility of Rwd is the clincher for me SG, while Fwd can do the tasks also, Rwd does them more competently imo & argubly safer.

cheers, Maka

[roKWiz]

Been doing a lot of comparing while in Sydney between my Falcon panel van and my brothers late model Honda Accord (while he is away) and I gotta say I hate FWD, feels like it wants to understeer around every roundabout and corner. This thing really moves off the mark and in a straight line but the van is just a big floating boat which drifts predictably through corners. Honda's great over speed bumps though.
Nope, I won't be buy FWD anytime soon.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Been doing a lot of comparing while in Sydney between my Falcon panel van and my brothers late model Honda Accord (while he is away) and I gotta say I hate FWD, feels like it wants to understeer around every roundabout and corner. This thing really moves off the mark and in a straight line but the van is just a big floating boat which drifts predictably through corners. Honda's great over speed bumps though.
Nope, I won't be buy FWD anytime soon.

Getting on to the throttle early in most Fwd's is a wait till its pointed straight type of thing because of understeer, lsd helps immensely with that though only high end sporty Fwd atm come from the factory with them standard.

The newer Fwd offerings are getting better in regards to torque steer / understeer though with newer tech suspension etc, yeah nah im sticking to good old Rwd too lol!

cheers, Maka

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Maka

Getting on to the throttle early in most Fwd's is a wait till its pointed straight type of thing because of understeer, lsd helps immensely with that though only high end sporty Fwd atm come from the factory with them standard.

The newer Fwd offerings are getting better in regards to torque steer / understeer though with newer tech suspension etc, yeah nah im sticking to good old Rwd too lol!

cheers, Maka

I reckon one of those FWD Fiat Ducato single rear wheels motorhome, everyone jumping on, would be a handful down the putty.

[malazn mafia]

The feeling of being pulled along by a bumdragger FWD, vs being shoved in the back by a RWD is very different under heavy acceleration. I know which one I prefer

[Maka]

Yep too true, though i wouldn't be pushing one of those through the Putty too hard (as its a light commercial lol) plus you have to be careful a tyre is not the only thing that blows on a Ducato -

https://www.caradvice.com.au/fiat/ducato/

cheers, Maka

[burnz]

assuming each car has 400 bhp at the wheels,
getting power down is the question for me..
both are fun, but one will eventually be a burden..

[BENT_8]

I've owned both AU XR6 and TJ VRX with factory LSD and the VRX will own the AU in every department.
Fastest Australian production car before the VT2 was released with 5.7l.

Infact the VRX wiped the smile off some smart **** in a BA/F XR6 and i gave him half a car length and left his missus laughing at the fool.

[Sar4890]

Every one under rates the old magnas having driven a few of them they are one of the best bangs for your bucks around.

[Maka]

Yeah the Ralliarts & Vxr's are great Aussie built Mitsi's for sure but still, Rwd is more fun for me.

cheers, Maka

[Nu66et]

Ive got a bit of a soft spot for small fwd cars with my first car being one which lasted about 4 years. My next car was an EB Falcon which felt like an absolute boat on water in comparison.

I think right now RWD is more fun, but its not a gurantee as you can work around what the driven wheels are. Lets not forget how many plaudits the current Fiesta ST has received worldwide.

[roddy1960]

I'm old school RWD through and through , owned nearly all RWD except for a 1986 AS Telstar in the early 90's, a 1989 Mitsubishi Magna wagon until 2 years ago and my little 1984 Honda Accord I still have . I have no problems with FWD at all but the Mitsi and Honda are 'pottering around cars ' for taking my dogs to the beach or bush or me to work 10 minutes away . Neither were proper daily long distance drivers . That's what my Falcons are.

Recall seeing a review of the Ford Mondeo last year where the issue of 'torque steer' was a serious consideration and how Ford had dealt with it pretty satisfactorily . Torque steer is not as big a deal these days I know but with all that stuff done up front (power , final drive and steering) makes me wonder if there's not a little bit more compromise to rear wheel drive with extra action on the front hoops .

Any sentiments on that guys ?

[nstg8a]

It's almost a 'how long is a piece of string' type question.

A modern fwd hot hatch would own your average falcodore in pretty any proper driving environment, where as your more performance oriented falcodore will smash your average shopping trolley fwd everywhere.

There's good and bad in both options.

I grew up in south Otago nz, so the vast majority of my formative driving years were on gravel roads.
Yes, I had way more fun in a rwd, but I found I was a lot faster and smoother in a fwd.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

It's almost a 'how long is a piece of string' type question.

A modern fwd hot hatch would own your average falcodore in pretty any proper driving environment, where as your more performance oriented falcodore will smash your average shopping trolley fwd everywhere.

There's good and bad in both options.

I grew up in south Otago nz, so the vast majority of my formative driving years were on gravel roads.
Yes, I had way more fun in a rwd, but I found I was a lot faster and smoother in a fwd.

Everyones kind of fun differs i guess & each to their own imo, lift off oversteer v power oversteer really dosent matter perhaps & on both accounts, you have to be a very competent driver to make those sort moves safely in the right environment.

Though i think fast Fwd cars that have fatter tyres on the front look a bit funny though, only joking!!

cheers, Maka

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Maka

Everyones kind of fun differs i guess & each to their own imo, lift off oversteer v power oversteer really dosent matter perhaps & on both accounts, you have to be a very competent driver to make those sort moves safely in the right environment.

Though i think fast Fwd cars that have fatter tyres on the front look a bit funny though, only joking!!

cheers, Maka

Haha, fwd drag cars definitely look weird

[TICKFORD220]

If I had the cash and the room id have a turbo i30 Hyundai in a second,havent driven one but I loved the interior and exterior last time I was at the stealership,little turbo 4 bangers are fun,i love rwd v8s and turbos but I also like change too.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'm old school RWD through and through , owned nearly all RWD except for a 1986 AS Telstar in the early 90's, a 1989 Mitsubishi Magna wagon until 2 years ago and my little 1984 Honda Accord I still have . I have no problems with FWD at all but the Mitsi and Honda are 'pottering around cars ' for taking my dogs to the beach or bush or me to work 10 minutes away . Neither were proper daily long distance drivers . That's what my Falcons are.

Recall seeing a review of the Ford Mondeo last year where the issue of 'torque steer' was a serious consideration and how Ford had dealt with it pretty satisfactorily . Torque steer is not as big a deal these days I know but with all that stuff done up front (power , final drive and steering) makes me wonder if there's not a little bit more compromise to rear wheel drive with extra action on the front hoops .

Any sentiments on that guys ?

Well it all depends on the weight balance over the front (to rear) imo Roddy, more weight over the front end will affect turn in & handling neutrality causing plow on understeer where something like a BMW Rwd with 50/50 balance is the perfect balance. Fwd is something like 60/40 afaik.

Excuse my rough explanation Roddy but i think you will get the idea, anyone who can expand on what im saying please chime in lol!

cheers, Maka

[roKWiz]

I suppose the older FWD technology perched a lot more weight forward of the front axles with heavier cast iron blocks of the time when compared to newer lighter weight transmissions, engine assemblies which produce twice the horsepower.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Maka

Well it all depends on the weight balance over the front (to rear) imo Roddy, more weight over the front end will affect turn in & handling neutrality causing plow on understeer where something like a BMW Rwd with 50/50 balance is the perfect balance. Fwd is something like 60/40 afaik.

Excuse my rough explanation Roddy but i think you will get the idea, anyone who can expand on what im saying please chime in lol!

cheers, Maka

This is the crux of it - weight distribution. People tend to focus on which wheels are doing the driving and how the car will behave when traction is lost, but that's only part of it. Weight distribution is a big factor when describing how a car will handle.

Then if you want to add AWD into the mix you have to consider that the majority of AWD cars start as FWD and have the AWD system "added on". But there are also cars, most of which we don't get in Australia, that start as RWD with the AWD system "added on" - Ford Territory was one example.

So forget about RWD v AWD v FWD for a second, and look at the chassis/drive train configuration - longitudinal vs transverse. All FWD and most AWD cars are transverse. Speaking from an enthusiast point of view, it's horrible. The engine and transmission are slung out over the top of the front axle line. Weight distribution is horrendous. That there are some seriously fun cars around like the Focus ST that have this layout is testament to the talented engineers who've refined what is undoubtedly a compromised architecture, from an enthusiast/performance point of view.

If that's not bad enough think about how many people bought diesel hatches. Heavy cast iron engine on top of the front wheels? No thanks.

RWD and longitudinal layouts allow the engine to be placed behind and below the front axle line, resulting in a long bonnet and usually less interior space, but it won't be any where near as prone to understeer. 50/50 weight distribution is far easier to achieve, but not the case in every RWD car.

Another thing complicating the argument is that there are some super-fun FWD cars around and some terrible RWD cars. (though not so many these days) It's pretty much impossible to compare apples with apples. Small hot hatches work well as FWD - adjust your driving style to suit and have a blast. But then again you can still buy a BMW M140i...

And then there's my pet topic - aesthetic proportions. Small cars and supercars aside, the car with a longitudinal chassis will always look better.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

This is the crux of it - weight distribution. People tend to focus on which wheels are doing the driving and how the car will behave when traction is lost, but that's only part of it. Weight distribution is a big factor when describing how a car will handle.

Then if you want to add AWD into the mix you have to consider that the majority of AWD cars start as FWD and have the AWD system "added on". But there are also cars, most of which we don't get in Australia, that start as RWD with the AWD system "added on" - Ford Territory was one example.

So forget about RWD v AWD v FWD for a second, and look at the chassis/drive train configuration - longitudinal vs transverse. All FWD and most AWD cars are transverse. Speaking from an enthusiast point of view, it's horrible. The engine and transmission are slung out over the top of the front axle line. Weight distribution is horrendous. That there are some seriously fun cars around like the Focus ST that have this layout is testament to the talented engineers who've refined what is undoubtedly a compromised architecture, from an enthusiast/performance point of view.

If that's not bad enough think about how many people bought diesel hatches. Heavy cast iron engine on top of the front wheels? No thanks.

RWD and longitudinal layouts allow the engine to be placed behind and below the front axle line, resulting in a long bonnet and usually less interior space, but it won't be any where near as prone to understeer. 50/50 weight distribution is far easier to achieve, but not the case in every RWD car.

Another thing complicating the argument is that there are some super-fun FWD cars around and some terrible RWD cars. (though not so many these days) It's pretty much impossible to compare apples with apples. Small hot hatches work well as FWD - adjust your driving style to suit and have a blast. But then again you can still buy a BMW M140i...

And then there's my pet topic - aesthetic proportions. Small cars and supercars aside, the car with a longitudinal chassis will always look better.

Well there it is guys, why cars handle the way they do expertly defined!

Thanks heaps tranquilized!!

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

This is the crux of it - weight distribution. People tend to focus on which wheels are doing the driving and how the car will behave when traction is lost, but that's only part of it. Weight distribution is a big factor when describing how a car will handle.

Then if you want to add AWD into the mix you have to consider that the majority of AWD cars start as FWD and have the AWD system "added on". But there are also cars, most of which we don't get in Australia, that start as RWD with the AWD system "added on" - Ford Territory was one example.

So forget about RWD v AWD v FWD for a second, and look at the chassis/drive train configuration - longitudinal vs transverse. All FWD and most AWD cars are transverse. Speaking from an enthusiast point of view, it's horrible. The engine and transmission are slung out over the top of the front axle line. Weight distribution is horrendous. That there are some seriously fun cars around like the Focus ST that have this layout is testament to the talented engineers who've refined what is undoubtedly a compromised architecture, from an enthusiast/performance point of view.

If that's not bad enough think about how many people bought diesel hatches. Heavy cast iron engine on top of the front wheels? No thanks.

RWD and longitudinal layouts allow the engine to be placed behind and below the front axle line, resulting in a long bonnet and usually less interior space, but it won't be any where near as prone to understeer. 50/50 weight distribution is far easier to achieve, but not the case in every RWD car.

Another thing complicating the argument is that there are some super-fun FWD cars around and some terrible RWD cars. (though not so many these days) It's pretty much impossible to compare apples with apples. Small hot hatches work well as FWD - adjust your driving style to suit and have a blast. But then again you can still buy a BMW M140i...

And then there's my pet topic - aesthetic proportions. Small cars and supercars aside, the car with a longitudinal chassis will always look better.

Great post, longitudinal drivetrain was one of the reasons the AWD Terry is such a good vehicle. These days you have to pay £££ €€€ for the same in a F-Pace, X5 or Porsche.

[jpd80]

Today, it's not so much a question of FWD versus RWD but FWD/AWD Versus RWD

Ask yourself Focus RS or Mustang manual, some like the RS while others love the Mustang
or would you love a rear drive Focus RS?

[Maka]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Today, it's not so much a question of FWD versus RWD but FWD/AWD Versus RWD

Ask yourself Focus RS or Mustang manual, some like the RS while others love the Mustang
or would you love a rear drive Focus RS?

I would have both jpd80 & even if you add the Focus ST, the ST would be 3rd for me because of its Fwd driving characteristics no matter if some of the old Fwd bad habits have been ironed out.

For others the order may be different i dont know.

cheers, Maka

[pottery beige]

rollback

clutch dump

handbrake

FWD skids are funny