My 1st non-Ford service

JasonACT · 19-12-2019, 09:06 PM

Some may know, I'm annoyed that Ford used the I6 non-turbo oil in my FG2 XR6T last service, so I've decided not to go back. It's actually not the first time they did this, at my first (free, 3k) service I asked them to change the oil and filter (which I paid for) and they used the wrong oil then too. All other services were with the correct oil. But I had no idea until I read the service manual.

So I went looking for quotes... I also noticed that my coolant was never changed by Ford. It (the coolant) would have surely turned up on my dockets (like the over-priced oil at my last service). So I've caved and bought a PWR heat exchanger as well. Thank you Pit Lane.

There's a lot of conflicting discussion about them, but I live in Canberra and it gets cold here so I didn't want to go an air/oil cooler. They have also been around now for a very long time and no-one has ever mentioned "the milkshake" problem with one. But that's not why I'm posting here.

Pit Lane quotes $195 for fitting. My quote was $280 + $40 for coolant. I had been told January for the booking so I didn't get the oil quoted (which I already bought along with the filter - to make sure I got what I wanted - which was already ~$130) because the oil really couldn't wait. They called me a week ago and said someone had cancelled so they could fit me in (for yesterday).

Upon getting my car back, I was charged $478 which was a bit of a shock but ok as long as everything was done right, but then I noticed something unusual with the coolant. I always check levels to make sure the car isn't experiencing issues and I've never seen the coolant this low:

I went to the business's website to question them about what was going on, I had asked them to let me know what they used so I could fix the problem. They wouldn't tell me, the bottom picture shows the correspondence. They called me but still wouldn't tell me the details, except to say it was bought in bulk and wasn't available to the public.

After agreeing it needed to be fixed, I said I would have to do it because the car would be hot if I drove in. So, it was also agreed (after some discussion) I could take 1L of the coolant home tomorrow to do so when the car was cold.

Being a bit annoyed, I checked the oil level:

I can see two lines, marked in red, both well above the full mark. I hope it's just the thicker oil making the very high mark.

Anyone else got horror stories like this? Should I buy a device to suck out a little bit of oil? Am I just expecting too much from the professionals?

(I've actually bought a jack, ramps and stands to do this myself in the future.)

JC · 19-12-2019, 09:42 PM

Horror story? I personally know Patto and he has been in the industry a long time and knows what he’s doing. One of his emails says drop past and he’ll sort it out. That’s what you should do. That much “overfill” wouldn’t even cause an issue.

sr71 · 19-12-2019, 11:27 PM

Jason's concerns are justified in my opinion. After getting stuffed around by Ford, he just wanted a good job.
As JC has mentioned, sounds like he has picked a good mechanic. But things don't always go perfectly, which is hard to take when you have high expectations. Plus pressure is on for mechanics so close to Christmas.
I've become mates with my mechanic. And he stuffs me around often. Last time he had the family car for 5 weeks, and handed it over the evening before an interstate drive. Plus he screws things up, and I accept it. It's hard being a car lover, and wanting things done perfectly.
I have even gone elsewhere, but they treat me like a vet does a pet owner (ie, the more committed you are, the more they charge) Prices vary with an oil and filter change.
Life gets super busy, but sometimes if you want something done bang on, you've just got to find the time and do it yourself.
I look forward to having my own hoist and kitted out garage, to do it all myself. Plus the time..

JasonACT · 20-12-2019, 01:40 AM

Thanks sr71. The hoist would be really good, wouldn't it. It's the one thing that without, makes doing anything yourself just so hard (like checking the ZF fluid level - which I will never be able to do myself even though it's now on my list). The few things I've now bought may help with what little Ford was doing for me before though.

My main issue is, and I do find it "horrible", is I had to argue there was a problem with the coolant - which going forward, if Ford decide to ever respond to me with an apology (ha!) I may take the car back... Where they will notice the coolant is low and will add extra to top it up.

Who can say what that will bring? Well, no one, because I can't get a straight answer. I asked 3 times and only got what some guy thought I needed to know - so thanks for (nothing, and) dumbing it down for me.

I also had another item on my list of "things to do" - which was remove the exhaust restrictor ring between the CAT and the muffler. He said he wouldn't do it because he would be fined $20K. Your car needs to pass emissions, blah, blah.

I'm not one to argue though, he didn't want the job and making someone do something they don't want to rarely ends well... Though my understanding is it wasn't put in for Aus. emission standards and can come out without an issue (I'd be happy to be corrected though - before I do it myself). Personally, I think the guy is very good at arguing his point, and I'm also sure from the workshop conversations going on he didn't do the oil or coolant - some young guys did. So I don't feel this is a bad message for him to take on.

**data_mine** · 20-12-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Where they will notice the coolant is low and will add extra to top it up.

Who can say what that will bring? Well, no one, because I can't get a straight answer.

Coolant is coolant. as long as it's the right colour coolant, you can mix it just fine.

green for green, red for red, blue for blue.

If you want to be pedantic about servicing your car, you have to do it yourself. Any workshop has time and cost pressures, and simply can't spend the same time you can on your car.

It's not like they've done anything heinous to your car, they put in a bit too much oil (as JC says, it's not so much as to worry about doing anything about it), and maybe checked the coolant level when hot rather than cold. it's not empty, it's not filled with diesel, it hasn't turned into a pumpkin.

And they've offered to help rectify your concerns.

Go back let them help you before having a whinge. If they still can't/won't help to your satisfaction have a whinge then.

FWIW, Canberra is a small place, you'll hear bad things about everywhere. Are they all so bad, probably not or they'd be out of business.

JasonACT · 20-12-2019, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by data_mine

...have a whinge then.

On this forum, I have documented a whole bunch of things I've done with my car, some things work, some don't. But I don't think it's fair to imply I'm just having a whinge here or being pedantic. It's just what's currently happening with my car.

That you may think I'm having a whinge though, that would be priceless.

pottery beige · 20-12-2019, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

On this forum, I have documented a whole bunch of things I've done with my car, some things work, some don't. But I don't think it's fair to imply I'm just having a whinge here or being pedantic. It's just what's currently happening with my car.

That you may think I'm having a whinge though, that would be priceless.

some cheese with that whine...?

Rob S · 20-12-2019, 10:10 PM

Hey Man.

Your right to be concerned about your car and who's working on it,and to sort it out.

That guy did point out good facts though for general information.

I think some of us have some serious horror story's about this and wanting to avoid one and do what you can to sort it,after research is right on the money.

**fordomatic** · 20-12-2019, 10:45 AM

Nothing but issues from mechanics in Canberra and i've tried a lot of them. The only place i'll go now is Profection Automotive in Hume and that's only if i absolutely need to. I do all my own servicing though, I literally trust no one. After my issues with Gentech which was well warranted they can go jump too.

My best issue was in 2007 when I was in Townsville with my at the time, new B series XR8. I went round the corner to a cafe and saw an awesome green XR8 doing fishtails up the street. It looked great until I realised it was my car. They rang and said it needed this and that out of waranty fixed and i told them to fix it all. Long story short I didn't pay for anything and I have not stepped inside a Ford dealership since.

It's these kind of drongos that give the industry a bad name. If im paying $120 plus an hour for labor the work better be done properly and professionally, but it rarely is.

Franco Cozzo · 11-01-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Nothing but issues from mechanics in Canberra and i've tried a lot of them. The only place i'll go now is Profection Automotive in Hume and that's only if i absolutely need to. I do all my own servicing though, I literally trust no one. After my issues with Gentech which was well warranted they can go jump too.

My best issue was in 2007 when I was in Townsville with my at the time, new B series XR8. I went round the corner to a cafe and saw an awesome green XR8 doing fishtails up the street. It looked great until I realised it was my car. They rang and said it needed this and that out of waranty fixed and i told them to fix it all. Long story short I didn't pay for anything and I have not stepped inside a Ford dealership since.

It's these kind of drongos that give the industry a bad name. If im paying $120 plus an hour for labor the work better be done properly and professionally, but it rarely is.

From the perspective of the business it has ridiculous overheads, its very heavy on capital just opening a workshop in the first place, before you even take into account rent, yearly subscription fees on your multiple diagnostic tools, specialty tools to do a range of jobs then you're only charging $120/hour for labour.

Something else you need to take into account is the location of your workshop, the population for potential customers, local competition and the availability of multiple freight runs per day from your suppliers to reduce the cost of inventory sitting on your shelf.

Then the amount of cars you need to diagnose/service/repair to cover costs, you can't be meticulous with everything because you need volume, get things in and get them out.

Take into account the non existent margins on replacement parts and consumables between RRP and trade pricing, then these places selling directly to your customers also - you shouldn't charge above RRP for something because if your customer does research you'll get slandered over ripping people off, but then you make a token amount that's virtually nothing.

The LV automotive industry also pays SFA to the guy turning the spanners who did 4 years worth of slave wages and invested 5 figures of his own cash back into tools to do his job, because of all the above reasons, because of this the industry attracts people who live and breathe cars, or monkeys with no ambition or drive, there's more monkeys just quietly because someone with drive and initiative won't hang around long.

The state of the LV industry is a joke, but its driven by customer demand at the end of the day, everyone wants to pay nothing but receive everything.

There's also barely any regulation, the industry itself isn't regulated.

The only way you can make sure something is done properly is to do it yourself unfortunately, done my time fixing cars I'd rather just pay someone to do something then if they don't do it, argue the point with them with the power of the invoice and the ACCC

Rob S · 11-01-2020, 12:38 PM

Valid points,but obviously there's no excuse for the some "professionals" that are doing the clearly wrong thing.

Some of us have no problem paying however much,if it's good service,when we have the money.

But not doing there job well with some,or not at all,is wrong,let alone on top of just "test driving" cars and thrashing them,and maybe causing more issues that "wasn't my fault".

They need to grow up and be a professional adult.

Franco Cozzo · 11-01-2020, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

Valid points,but obviously there's no excuse for the some "professionals" that are doing the clearly wrong thing.

Some of us have no problem paying however much,if it's good service,when we have the money.

But not doing there job well with some,or not at all,is wrong,let alone on top of just "test driving" cars and thrashing them,and maybe causing more issues that "wasn't my fault".

They need to grow up and be a professional adult.

Whats the criteria for 'professionals'?

The people on AFF have more skill than 75% of auto 'tradies' in the game

The industry isn't regulated and its a joke - especially light vehicles.

Rob S · 11-01-2020, 05:13 PM

What do you think I was saying with some of them?

Even if some of them aren't as qualified as others,at least don't be doing stupid stuff,including like thrashing people's cars,ripping people off for incomplete,damaged work that most are capable of doing most things.

No one knows everything,maybe a lot of people who use this forum are experienced,Not all of course.

Don't know what your even driving at with that??????

JasonACT · 20-12-2019, 06:16 PM

So, the coolant is now fixed (they gave me 1.5L in a clean drink bottle [I don't really know that for sure.. but he did say don't drink it, it'll kill you] and I put in 400ml to fix it when the car was cold).

There's still advice on the web that colour doesn't always describe the technology. It may be fine, but the problem I have is, I don't know - he won't tell me the details. I don't know why. It shouldn't be some big secret. It only makes things suspicious, like it's what he uses but he knows it's not what Ford say to use. I just don't know, but I wouldn't be so worried if I hadn't noticed something wrong and that's on him.

I also don't think it's pedantic wanting levels of fluid being in the correct range, in this regard, the coolant was ok - because it was technically in range (the absolute minimum, actually it was slightly below as I could see when I slowly added more). I would have personally been less worried about the engine oil being mid way between "Add" and "Full". Apparently the lines show 1L of oil (deciphering the service manuals). So I'd say it's got about 7-800ml extra oil... My guess is, they looked it up - 6.8L, and added that in not taking into consideration what wasn't drained.

On a final note, I'll say, I gave them three jobs to do. They only needed to check levels for three things. When I take the car to Ford the report they give back has a huge checklist of what's looked at and I don't think there's much price difference between them now. So, if a smaller shop can't factor in 3 extra (and quick) checks for 3 jobs there's a problem there.

But I will be doing my own services from now on. Most Canberrans probably don't know how a car works anyway, put petrol in, press down on foot, and go. So plenty of business still for the small shops.

JasonACT · 10-01-2020, 08:34 PM

So I've had this device for about a week now, but I've been back at work and Canberra has been so smokey I didn't want to be outside...

I've pulled 1L of oil out of the engine, but alas, it's still slightly above full on the dip-stick...

Not enough to worry about now, though, I don't think.

I'm surprised how dirty the oil looks after about 200kms!

lra · 10-01-2020, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I'm surprised how dirty the oil looks after about 200kms!

So the oil they put in must have been good stuff to clean that much sludge left behind by the previous oil. I would suggest doing another oil change, yourself, with a top quality oil of the specified weights.

JasonACT · 10-01-2020, 09:10 PM

I bought the oil they used, when on special, after considering what Ford had used before and doing my research. But I've been thinking the same thing - might be time for me to practice the change myself. I bought more oil during the boxing day specials... I just keep hearing my automotive teacher from yr 11 saying - change the oil filter, even if you don't change the oil!

roddy1960 · 11-01-2020, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Some may know, I'm annoyed that Ford used the I6 non-turbo oil in my FG2 XR6T last service, so I've decided not to go back. It's actually not the first time they did this, at my first (free, 3k) service I asked them to change the oil and filter (which I paid for) and they used the wrong oil then too. All other services were with the correct oil. But I had no idea until I read the service manual.

So I went looking for quotes... I also noticed that my coolant was never changed by Ford. It (the coolant) would have surely turned up on my dockets (like the over-priced oil at my last service). So I've caved and bought a PWR heat exchanger as well. Thank you Pit Lane.

There's a lot of conflicting discussion about them, but I live in Canberra and it gets cold here so I didn't want to go an air/oil cooler. They have also been around now for a very long time and no-one has ever mentioned "the milkshake" problem with one. But that's not why I'm posting here.

Pit Lane quotes $195 for fitting. My quote was $280 + $40 for coolant. I had been told January for the booking so I didn't get the oil quoted (which I already bought along with the filter - to make sure I got what I wanted - which was already ~$130) because the oil really couldn't wait. They called me a week ago and said someone had cancelled so they could fit me in (for yesterday).

Upon getting my car back, I was charged $478 which was a bit of a shock but ok as long as everything was done right, but then I noticed something unusual with the coolant. I always check levels to make sure the car isn't experiencing issues and I've never seen the coolant this low:

image

I went to the business's website to question them about what was going on, I had asked them to let me know what they used so I could fix the problem. They wouldn't tell me, the bottom picture shows the correspondence. They called me but still wouldn't tell me the details, except to say it was bought in bulk and wasn't available to the public.

After agreeing it needed to be fixed, I said I would have to do it because the car would be hot if I drove in. So, it was also agreed (after some discussion) I could take 1L of the coolant home tomorrow to do so when the car was cold.

Being a bit annoyed, I checked the oil level:

image

I can see two lines, marked in red, both well above the full mark. I hope it's just the thicker oil making the very high mark.

image

Anyone else got horror stories like this? Should I buy a device to suck out a little bit of oil? Am I just expecting too much from the professionals?

(I've actually bought a jack, ramps and stands to do this myself in the future.)

My FG XR6 non turbo was serviced yesterday .. I take mine to our local Caltex because Grant and Jackson know the car very well . Everything is also documented and noted . Actually yesterday I ended up staying while the service was done and they went over the whole car as they always do . They paid particular attention while she was on the hoist on the suspension , steering, transmission cooler hoses etc components and checked for any signs of leaks which is mandatory of course . Also tyre wear (no rotation required) , brake pad wear and for any damage .

Under bonnet all the usual stuff like 6.5 litres of penrite HPR 5 fully synthetic oil , new oil filter , injector cleaner, coolant check, checked air and cabin filter (all good this time ) and noted condition of serpentine belt . She got a ticked off clean bill of health . By the way my coolant reservoir tank looks exactly the same as the one in the picture with the white residue here and there evident and has looked the same in the past nearly four years since I bought the car . the car itself is an April 2008 build which is one of the very early FG's.

Total cost for the service which took about an hour was $205 .

I think I'm pretty lucky because Grant has been in the biz for yonks , owned the business for yonks also and pays a lot of attention to covering all the basics really well ..Some say .."oh it's only a service " but a thorough service done properly is really important because it saves you a lot if an issue is spotted before it really goes pear shaped ..

Been a very long time since any vehicle I've owned has needed to be serviced at a Ford dealership and when I bought the XR6 in March 2016 from a Ford dealership I pretty quickly got the guys at our local Caltex to give her the full once over to be sure she was spot on .

||| · 11-01-2020, 05:05 PM

wow what a disaster! makes me glad i do all my own work!

BA-XT · 11-01-2020, 08:46 PM

That oil did indeed come out dark.... I do my mums 2010 rav 4 and get the same colour after 6 months but the small Toyota engines are known for build up.

What oil did the mechanic use?

JasonACT · 11-01-2020, 09:00 PM

I bought the oil! (

) 5w40 Castrol Edge full synthetic. Ford has been using 5w30 semi synthetic (magnatec) on numerous occasions. That's not what the service manual says to use on a turbo though. 0w40 Edge is what's recommended by Castrol - but it's rarely on sale and seems overkill even for Canberra, where "5w" seems the most logical choice for this wintry climate.

The service manual states 15w40 is what's needed. But I'm in Canberra, and it does get quite cold here in winter.

Anyway, I think it's more important to change the oil regularly, even if it's not the one the Ford manuals say to use. That's what I'm doing from now on, every 8-10,000ks.

BA-XT · 11-01-2020, 09:43 PM

Nice! That Castro Edge must have a nice detergency pack! Yes mum has had shocking experience from Car Dealership Service departments..... 25 years apart! Ken Morgan Toyota and in 2012 she bought a second hand RAV 4 and despite my insistence not to take it back to AGM group.... she did.

**Cav** · 12-01-2020, 08:21 AM

Do these service blokes still check tyre pressures?

I don't bother if the tyres still look OK, maybe they get checked at the annual roadworthy check.

Oh hang on, I now live in Qld.

Franco Cozzo · 12-01-2020, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

Do these service blokes still check tyre pressures?

I don't bother if the tyres still look OK, maybe they get checked at the annual roadworthy check.

Oh hang on, I now live in Qld.

How good is it being in the states where they don't do annual roadworthiness checks.

The best one in SA - go online and put some rego on your car and away you go

Rob S · 12-01-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

Do these service blokes still check tyre pressures?

I don't bother if the tyres still look OK, maybe they get checked at the annual roadworthy check.

Oh hang on, I now live in Qld.

The guy who did some of a major service on my car months ago reckons he did my tyre pressure,but don't believe everything he says any way for other reasons on top of the way he operates out of his garage from home.

Not supposed to be taking business away from his full time job anyway from home,even though his bosses must be goog to him,lots of time off from personal stuff etc,and comes and goes as he pleases.

Some things from accidents at home,illnesses and self inflicted.Doing this didn't make me comfortable completely,but it's his job to possibly screw up.

He said he didn't even know about any sensor in the throttle body,in that area,when I was asking him how he did the job.

Just reached in with a rag and cleaned it,but there's right ways and wrong ways of doing it,don't know the rest of that,and if he damaged sensor in that area etc.

Could say many things about him,and will say a bit more,but this guy has almost cost me my car already,if we didn't pick up on it,very next drive would have been bye bye car,and possibly an accident too.

I've rectified it,but most amateur mistake,and won't say right now what happened exactly,but a huge so called coincidence went with it,and don't believe so much anymore it was even a mistake,knowing who he is now.

Didn't do a coolant flush change,even though could have got a new thermostat,or done it without it.He told me he once worked at Ford,and doing a coolant change on BAs etc,that 9 out of 10 times that they would start leaking coolant from somewhere.

Never heard that before or since,so not sure about that.It still needs to be done.Trying to save him money,and made established shop prices off me at the least,and that's if he did everything he said.

Have good reason to believe no.He did put in a slight top up of God knows what,may have been green,but that's not all that's to it.My car has a small weep from thermostat housing now a bit after that.That may be just a coincidence, but don't know,wouldn't surprise if ha caused it.

Did calculations after that first time he had car,not before,on how much he earned of me that first time.

He has done some things right,and helped a bit,but who knows what else this guy has done.

I personally know he's an immature so called "adult" fraud,now,Not before.

Won't go into the rest,and not my thread,but it's basically what this thread is about,as far as I remember,as I have followed it from the start.