Crap cars of the past - your hypothetical ultimate ****box project?

[Franco Cozzo]

Thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss - things that were seen as 'crap' cars or had poor reputations for whatever reason from new - Starfire Commodore, Datsun 200B, EA Falcon etc.

You've got to pick one (or more) of these traditional junk cars and an outline of your ultimate ****box hypothetical project (I've already actually got one - see email signature )

The only rules are no engine conversions, no Barra, no LS, etc you've got to spice up the lump under the bonnet, free reign on transmission.

Unlimited spondoolies - budget build or sky is the limit.

My pick is the mighty VH Starfire 1.9L 4 cylinder Commodore.

My plans would be:

Multipoint EFI conversion
Sequential ignition
Sequential injection
Engine management system
Garrett GT2052 turbo (discount!)
Intercooler
Intake
2.5" turbo back exhaust
5sp manual conversion
3.73 final drive
LSD in rear

Target is about 150KW/wheels.

What car would you pick and what are you doing to spice her up for the ultimate hypothetical ****box project?

[Yellow_Festiva]

99 Festiva - Paint it fluro yellow

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My pick is the mighty VH Starfire 1.9L 4 cylinder Commodore.

Best mod for the shartfire is to fill it with concrete.

That way it can hold a bigger boat.

[Crazy Dazz]

I reckon the P76 would be a good target, with the 4.4L V8 obviously.
I believe that engine had take a much larger bore, so could probably get it close to 5L, and of course plenty of Range-Rover mods available, including a super-charger.

I would tub the rear, and use that massive boot to fit the biggest fattest tyres I could find, whilst also slamming it as low as possible

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I reckon the P76 would be a good target, with the 4.4L V8 obviously.
I believe that engine had take a much larger bore, so could probably get it close to 5L, and of course plenty of Range-Rover mods available, including a super-charger.

I would tub the rear, and use that massive boot to fit the biggest fattest tyres I could find, whilst also slamming it as low as possible

Add a long range tank... something around 44 gallons

[Crazy Dazz]

The Centura was a ****ebox rally car straight out of the box.
The cars themselves were turds on wheels, but they had those beautiful "hemi" 6's. With the right cam and triple carbs they could go like stink.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The Centura was a ****ebox rally car straight out of the box.
The cars themselves were turds on wheels, but they had those beautiful "hemi" 6's. With the right cam and triple carbs they could go like stink.

Centura was just a stretched Hillman avenger wasn’t it?


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[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Centura was just a stretched Hillman avenger wasn’t it?

In a roundabout way, the Centura was developed from the (Euro) Chrysler 180 which was also in a roundabout way developed from the Hillman Avenger...

Chrysler 180

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

In a roundabout way, the Centura was developed from the (Euro) Chrysler 180 which was also in a roundabout way developed from the Hillman Avenger...

Chrysler 180
image

It was basically a Simca, not much Hillman in it, although they were distantly related.

The 4-cyl version had a lousy engine & brakes. the 6-cyl was a rocket with (slightly) better brakes but they were outdated by the time they came to market in Aust. The competition (Cortina, Torana, Datsun & Toyota was much better as the time.

Dr Terry

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

It was basically a Simca, not much Hillman in it, although they were distantly related.

The 4-cyl version had a lousy engine & brakes. the 6-cyl was a rocket with (slightly) better brakes but they were outdated by the time they came to market in Aust. The competition (Cortina, Torana, Datsun & Toyota was much better as the time.

Dr Terry

That's why i said roundabout, twice..................

But if you want to get all pedantic and mention Simca then you also need to include the Rootes Group, the Chrysler 180 was the base name for a series of large saloon cars produced by Chrysler Europe resulting from a joint development by Rootes (UK) and Simca (Fr), the Chrysler 180 ("C car") and the Hillman Avenger ("B Car") which where developed alongside each other, shared plenty of design cues which are immediately recognisable between the two, the main difference been scale, the Avenger was smaller....

....then the Centura was developed from the 180.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss - things that were seen as 'crap' cars or had poor reputations for whatever reason from new - Starfire Commodore, Datsun 200B, EA Falcon etc.

You've got to pick one (or more) of these traditional junk cars and an outline of your ultimate ****box hypothetical project (I've already actually got one - see email signature )

The only rules are no engine conversions, no Barra, no LS, etc you've got to spice up the lump under the bonnet, free reign on transmission.

Unlimited spondoolies - budget build or sky is the limit.

My pick is the mighty VH Starfire 1.9L 4 cylinder Commodore.

My plans would be:

Multipoint EFI conversion
Sequential ignition
Sequential injection
Engine management system
Garrett GT2052 turbo (discount!)
Intercooler
Intake
2.5" turbo back exhaust
5sp manual conversion
3.73 final drive
LSD in rear

Target is about 150KW/wheels.

What car would you pick and what are you doing to spice her up for the ultimate hypothetical ****box project?

I’ve been in the hunt for one of these commodores for years. I think I’ve found three in that time, two were basket cases and the other was mint but the owner was overly optimistic about the amount id pay lol.

But my ****box would be a Vauxhall chevette. Cool little mk2 escort sized British ****heap.

I know you said no engine swaps but too bad. It’s getting a 2.3 cf Bedford engine. Mostly bolts straight in and probably gives it 20hp more.


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[happy1]

I have just driven the worst s**t box on 4 wheels since 1970s: It is a 2019 Mitsubishi Mirage.

It has a 3-cylinder rubber string motor, and a manual gearbox with an ON/OFF clutch that makes the thing either stall or jump when you lift the foot 1cm of the floor.

This thing has done only 1400 km since new, and I'm only dropping it off for 12 months servicing in the morning.

No wonder why the Mirage has gotten 'Worst car you can buy' award by many journalists several years in a row since 2013 when this model was released!

From now on I will feel sorry for any owners of these when I see one along the road.

[Citroënbender]

Reliant Robin; turbo/nitrous, move the engine to middle, Ferrari Selespeed type transaxle/cradle, airbagged and lightly chopped.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Reliant Robin; turbo/nitrous, move the engine to middle, Ferrari Selespeed type transaxle/cradle, airbagged and lightly chopped.

Easier to do that in a S**tbox Fiat X19 half your work is already done. Add a Rootes blower and Kenworth air snorkels and its ready to cruise.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by happy1

I have just driven the worst s**t box on 4 wheels since 1970s: It is a 2019 Mitsubishi Mirage.

It has a 3-cylinder rubber string motor, and a manual gearbox with an ON/OFF clutch that makes the thing either stall or jump when you lift the foot 1cm of the floor.

This thing has done only 1400 km since new, and I'm only dropping it off for 12 months servicing in the morning.

No wonder why the Mirage has gotten 'Worst car you can buy' award by many journalists several years in a row since 2013 when this model was released!

From now on I will feel sorry for any owners of these when I see one along the road.

Lol, the missus was given one as a courtesy car when our Subaru was getting serviced. They make a Great Wall look like a quality build.
You can see why they were the cheapest new car you could buy for a while. Utter rubbish.

[blue sleeper]

VN Executive 5.0L, assuming you could find one.....

[whynot]

Nissan Bluebird - the four cylinder limousine. My list of "money is no object" improvements include; duct tape (about 1km), Repco Multi Purpose Body Filler (about 300kg), 3M double sided tape, upgraded plastic hub caps, rear window louvre, gold paint, motorised antenna, sheepskin seat covers, and maybe a towball cap (if a tow bar is fitted). I would also replace the spark plugs, and definitely new engine oil and filter. Might also retro the car back to crossply tyres. Target power output is 10kW at the left hand rear wheel.

[Mulva]

I'm also (kind of) going against the no engine swap rules - I want to put a WH Caprice body onto an Adventura or Crewman or Avalanche to create an AWD V8 Luxo-barge.

Because I'm weird.

[ebv8]

hyundai xcel x3, with a 6G75 from a mitshi 380
run the 380 suspension and leave it FWD
i think you could get the donors for under $3k for the pair and another $2k for fabrication so for $5k you would have a beast of a car

[HIPO]

Probably happening as per thread title with the Mrs's Edsel.... much despised, now becoming collectible..... it has grown on me, 2 door one would be good!

[chilly38]

Anything that sounds like LADA !

[Mont5.0]

1998 Corolla, 4AGZE conversion.

[Dr Terry]

This year marks my 50 years working in the auto industry & the issue of "What is the worst car ?" comes up every now & then.

A lot of people have their pet hates & a lot changes over time, but there are far worse cars than 4-cyl Commodores, P76s, Centuras or 5-litre V8 VNs.

A classic case in point is how the "least favourite Holden is the HD". May 1965 was GMH's highest total monthly sales of all time. HD's gross sales per month was better than the HR, EJ & HQ !! History shows that the motoring scribes of the day loved it, "Great performance, heaps of room, space age styling etc. etc." much the same as the P76 in 1973.

Sure HDs rusted, (what 60s car didn't ?), but motoring writers of today (most of whom weren't even alive in 1965) hate it. How times have changed.

The 4-cyl Commodore filled a niche, as did the Bluebird & the Centura. All these cars were fine when new & even held their value well on the used car market when a couple of years old. They were solid, easy to service & did their job. OK they weren't performance cars, but they weren't sold as that.

As I said, many old mechanics recant stories of "Horrible cars" they've either owned on worked on. The common threads seem to be East European, French or Italian. Early Hyundais, Kias & Daewoos weren't brilliant either.

I could begin with Lada, FSN Niki or the Alfa Sud. These are absolute POS, they make EA Falcons, Centuras or 4-cyl Commodores seem cool.

My pet hate were French cars, by & large they weren't built to be serviced by mere mortals. They were quirky at best, especially the Citroen DS. Having said that early Peugeots were far better than either Citroens or Renaults of the era.

Pommy cars from the 70s weren't good either. Japanese (pre-1968) weren't any better than the early Korean offerings.

Because the choice is so wide, we used to have boundary "rules". Our rules were nothing French, nothing East European & nothing before 1960.

If you follow these "rules" the clear winner is the Morris (Leyland) Marina ! These things were crap. They didn't sell well, they were worth nothing 2nd hand. They leaked oil & fell apart weeks from new & they didn't go stop or handle well. It didn't help that the manufacturer (BMC/Leyland) were essentially bankrupt at the time.

Hard to beat that one !!

Dr Terry

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

but there are far worse cars than 4-cyl Commodores,
The 4-cyl Commodore filled a niche,

Not really, in those days there was plenty of dog**** just laying around.

It really is in a class all its own, for taking a bad car and making it worse, for creating something that literally nobody wanted, and effectively cursing the whole range.

The shartfire engine itself deserves special praise not just for being an abissmal piece of junk, but for being in every way worse than the engine it replaced.
The 1.9L Korean Opel wasn't great, but at least it was OHC. If you turfed the factory unit and fitted a Weber carbie, they went ok.

I don't know if the local-content requirements were increased or if other components had to be sourced o/s, but either way they had to come up with a home-grown engine. And their solution was literally a cut down red motor.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Not really, in those days there was plenty of dog**** just laying around.

It really is in a class all its own, for taking a bad car and making it worse, for creating something that literally nobody wanted, and effectively cursing the whole range.

The shartfire engine itself deserves special praise not just for being an abissmal piece of junk, but for being in every way worse than the engine it replaced.
The 1.9L Korean Opel wasn't great, but at least it was OHC. If you turfed the factory unit and fitted a Weber carbie, they went ok.

I don't know if the local-content requirements were increased or if other components had to be sourced o/s, but either way they had to come up with a home-grown engine. And their solution was literally a cut down red motor.

We'll probably agree to agree here, the 4-cyl Commodore wasn't a 'great' car but did sell OK & was in good demand as a used car for soccer mums. It was a 4-cyl which was fine for mums driving around town & had more room than any other 4-cyl car.

What was wrong with a the basic VB-VH Commodore, I wouldn't them a 'bad' car, certainly not compared to some of the stuff in these current posts.

On the subject of engines, the 1900 Opel was German not Korean & was 'Cam in Head' not OHC. The 4-cyl Commodore was better in many areas than the UC Torana motor & wasn't just simply a Starfire.

ADR27a pollution gear was the enemy in those days. The 4-cyl Corana version of the Starfire had a better carby & ran better & lasted longer. As you say fit a Weber to anything back then & they went better.

BTW the Commodore 4-cyl & the Starfire were 173 Blue motors cut down, not Red motors.

Dr Terry

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

ADR27a pollution gear was the enemy in those days.

Exactly!!Not that It took much Bypassing..(So I've heard)

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Exactly!!Not that It took much Bypassing..(So I've heard)

No need to bypass anything, just rip it all off.

back in the day, had a 27A HX panel van.
208 triple 1 3/4 SUs Yella Terra head, mild comp cam, roller rockers and airbox intake, Supra box.

Got a lovely noise complaint letter and sent to the then RTA Lidcombe test centre.
The car got the full emission tests done on it, with the RTA guy telling me to re install the tailpipes (had side pipes) but it was the cleanest running HX he had ever done and passed it, to go back on the road.

I remember his reference to the triples as a poor man fuel injection.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

We'll probably agree to agree here, the 4-cyl Commodore wasn't a 'great' car but did sell OK & was in good demand as a used car for soccer mums. It was a 4-cyl which was fine for mums driving around town & had more room than any other 4-cyl car.

What was wrong with a the basic VB-VH Commodore, I wouldn't them a 'bad' car, certainly not compared to some of the stuff in these current posts.

Dad's employer provided him with a company car. Throughout the 70's he had a string of Premiers. And in all honesty, I must say that his Cream HZ, with Vinyl Roof, 308, twin exhausts, and factory mags, was a beautiful car. SO naturally in around 79 or 80, he was given a VB Commodore SL/E.

He took to driving his XC Ute to work.
They soon got the message, and changed their entire fleet to Falcons and Fairmonts.

The 4 cylinder version was widely acknowledged as a mistake, reinforcing the belief that the Commode was a medium sized car, and a replacement for the Torana, rather than a large car like the Falcon.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

On the subject of engines, the 1900 Opel was German not Korean & was 'Cam in Head' not OHC.

It was made in Korea, which in my book makes it Korean.
The Cam was overhead, which makes it an OHC. There have been plenty of OHC engines that use rockers, including Ford.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

BTW the Commodore 4-cyl & the Starfire were Blue motors cut down, not Red motors.

A can of spray-paint does not a new engine make.

The Shartfire was gutless, and most owners found the fuel economy no better than the 6.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Dad's employer provided him with a company car. Throughout the 70's he had a string of Premiers. And in all honesty, I must say that his Cream HZ, with Vinyl Roof, 308, twin exhausts, and factory mags, was a beautiful car. SO naturally in around 79 or 80, he was given a VB Commodore SL/E.

He took to driving his XC Ute to work.
They soon got the message, and changed their entire fleet to Falcons and Fairmonts.

.

Yep my ol man was a GM believer, he had a string of Holden wagons from EK through to HZ. As well as buying a few Chevy C60 furniture pantecs.
I can remember when they announced the Commodore was to replace the Kingswood he sold me his last wagon (my first car) and ordered an XD Fairmont Ghia
His first Ford after many loyal years buying new Holdens.
He originally started out in business running a Ford Consul.

[CyberWasp]

Mini Moke.
Wind in the hair
-100 Star Safety rating
Lowered, New Paint Job, Upgraded Brakes, Wider Wheels & Worked Engine.

You would drive it like it was the last time you would ever drive again, because that literally, would be the case if anyone came into contact with you.