Severe LPG fuel scarcity from 2021?

[Tug]

Any informed knowledge as to the effect on the supply and price effect of LPG vehicle fuels after the next 6 months, with the likely closure of the Altona petro chem plant, where the LPG tankers fill up.

[Franco Cozzo]

How absolutely ridiculous is it that we've lost our last refinery in VIC because its not 'financially viable'

Its a pretty god damn valuable capability to have even if it is expensive.

[bartaxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How absolutely ridiculous is it that we've lost our last refinery in VIC because its not 'financially viable'

Its a pretty god damn valuable capability to have even if it is expensive.

The Viva Energy refinery in Geelong is still operating,

Australia had seven refineries in 2010, but will now have just two after ExxonMobil’s move on Altona followed BP Australia’s decision to shutter its Kwinana site in Western Australia.

Viva Energy’s plant in Geelong and Ampol’s site at Lytton in Queensland are the two refineries that remain open

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by bartaxr8

The Viva Energy refinery in Geelong is still operating,

Australia had seven refineries in 2010, but will now have just two after ExxonMobil’s move on Altona followed BP Australia’s decision to shutter its Kwinana site in Western Australia.

Viva Energy’s plant in Geelong and Ampol’s site at Lytton in Queensland are the two refineries that remain open

Surely that sends alarm bells from a fuel security perspective that just over a decade ago we had 10, now we have 2 left.

All well and good having the super refinery in Singapore supplying our fuel until one of those South East Asian nations gets the ****s up with a neighbour and there's a conflict that effects a trade route.

Everything's cheaper until you can't get your hands on it, sounds like Kogan.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Surely that sends alarm bells from a fuel security perspective

LPG accounts for just 2% of total fuel sold, and falling.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by b0son

LPG accounts for just 2% of total fuel sold, and falling.

That's a real shame, a whole industry going because of lack of innovation and poor attitudes

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

LPG accounts for just 2% of total fuel sold, and falling.

I'm not talking about LPG specifically, I'm talking about having the capability of refining fuels as a nation.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Surely that sends alarm bells from a fuel security perspective that just over a decade ago we had 10, now we have 2 left.

All well and good having the super refinery in Singapore supplying our fuel until one of those South East Asian nations gets the ****s up with a neighbour and there's a conflict that effects a trade route.

Everything's cheaper until you can't get your hands on it, sounds like Kogan.

If we end up in a war they better make sure it's a bloody quick one. Before the fuel light comes on.

The government has been warned about how dangerous this is, but they seemingly don't give a ****.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If we end up in a war they better make sure it's a bloody quick one. Before the fuel light comes on.

The government has been warned about how dangerous this is, but they seemingly don't give a ****.

We've had idiots at the wheel of our country since 20 years before I was born to this current day.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How absolutely ridiculous is it that we've lost our last refinery in VIC because its not 'financially viable'

Its a pretty god damn valuable capability to have even if it is expensive.

Melbourne:

But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me the pump ,the oil ,the gasoline ,and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror. I await your answer.

Geelong:

They see me rollin' They hatin'

[TooheyXtra]

But seriously what’s going on? LPG fuel prices have jumped over the past quarter from below .80c now looking at $1.10!!! In my area, is this truly because of summer rates, nearing prices close to unleaded. Might have to reconsider buying a petroleum car soon 😞

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by TooheyXtra

But seriously what’s going on? LPG fuel prices have jumped over the past quarter from below .80c now looking at $1.10!!! In my area, is this truly because of summer rates, nearing prices close to unleaded. Might have to reconsider buying a petroleum car soon 😞

I saw 92 cents in Keilor Park yesterday, gotta be the highest I've seen it, its usually around 50% of the price of 91.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I saw 92 cents in Keilor Park yesterday, gotta be the highest I've seen it, its usually around 50% of the price of 91.

91 is now $1.84L in Keilor Park, so LPG at 92 cents is cheap again

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by TooheyXtra

But seriously what’s going on? LPG fuel prices have jumped over the past quarter from below .80c now looking at $1.10!!! In my area, is this truly because of summer rates, nearing prices close to unleaded. Might have to reconsider buying a petroleum car soon 😞

This will be the major cause:

Originally Posted by AMB

propane prices are predicted to go through the roof, due to supply problems and the usual high demand in northern hemisphere winter.

but supply/demand in Australia will also be a factor, especially given the number of servos that are getting out of supplying lpg when their tanks are up for recertification. Lack of demand drives fewer bowsers, which then drives people away for lpg even more, which decreases demand. Also keep in mind that there will be very few new (to lpg) vehicles coming into the market but there will constantly be those leaving the market. It's a downward spiral, unfortunately.

When I bought my Ecolpi ute two years ago, I was hoping it would see out my working life. I don't think it's going to get anywhere near that...

[simon varley]

that's what happens when you privatise essential services. Clearly we have no need to any sort of strategic stockpile now we are on such good terms with the Chinese.

BTW Viva in Geelong is still up.

[Gumboot]

Apparently Ampol is looking at options to close its refinery as well, so that would leave only one....
What could possibly go wrong.....say a trade war, pandemic , supply chain disruption , military conflict....

[marty351]

Are the days of the backyard bbq numbered?

Maybe vegans won't mind having their vege-tofu burgers cooked over heat beads...

[Gumboot]

BBQ! Har that is so 2020, The future is running your induction cooktop hooked up to your Tesla electric vehicle ��

[JAZSXY]

Originally Posted by Tug

Any informed knowledge as to the effect on the supply and price effect of LPG vehicle fuels after the next 6 months, with the likely closure of the Altona petro chem plant, where the LPG tankers fill up.

LPG Tankers pull very little from there for the autogas market. Most comes from other terminals.

[marty351]

2004 I remember coming down to racecourse rd and seeing lpg at 60c/l. This was when it was pretty much 32-40c/l. I laughed, some news outlet was scarring people about some bs which doesn't affect us. Drove out to Keilor and whoa... it was 34.9c/l. Great thing was driving a 5.8l torque monster at 1/3rd the price of a 2 litre petrol slug.

Those were the days...

[xb74_black]

As tank dating at servos comes up, most are being pulled out.

It's a shame, i prefer LPG.

[marty351]

BTW... only two backfires in six years of ownership and all it did was blow out the old dirt.
I only ever bought one filter.

[jmack]

i remember paying 14c/l for my first lpg car.been lucky enough to never have trouble with backfiring but economy has never been great,although i never worry about fuel economy anyway

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by jmack

i remember paying 14c/l for my first lpg car.been lucky enough to never have trouble with backfiring but economy has never been great,although i never worry about fuel economy anyway

I remember the 14c a litre days, unfortunately a tank full for under $10 is a thing of the past, reality is $60 now to fill the RTV.

There used to be 8 servo's within a 5k radius of where I live that sold LPG, now there is 1, the other week pumps were unavailable, had to go 4 suburbs over to get gas.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

To answer the OPs question, the closure of the Altona refinery, from my understanding, is not likely to have a major impact on LPG supplies:

Altona Refinery's production of LPG is only a by product of the crude oil refining process

Petrol represents approximately 60 percent of production, with diesel representing a further 30 percent and jet fuel around 10 percent. The percentage of each product depends on the type of feedstock used - different types of crude oil, for example, will produce more or less LPG from the refining process.

The Long Island Plant (not closing yet) produces and distributes LPG

The 158 hectare site houses three gas liquids fractionation trains, nineteen pressurized Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG - propane and butane) storage vessels, seven refrigerated atmospheric pressure LPG storage tanks, eight crude oil storage tanks, an LPG truck loading terminal and a jetty for loading LPG and crude oil onto ships.

The Longford Plants separates the crude oil and gas being fed from the operations in Bass Strait and then the separated streams (crude oil and gas liquids) are then piped to Long Island for further processing.

If the Long Island plant was to close, then that would certainly appear to have a major impact on LPG supplies, but at this stage, the Altona Refinery closure should see little impact.

[mad2]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

To answer the OPs question, the closure of the Altona refinery, from my understanding, is not likely to have a major impact on LPG supplies:

.

coulda sworn that the guy i was taking too at apco [behind the desk] mentioned that the LPG came from Altona?

[Franco Cozzo]

LPG had potential, has a high octane rating, is better out the exhaust, just the application was poor in most cases.

1940s tech mixer ring on modern cars, limiting the air intake to approx 40mm diameter etc.

Super sensitive to ignition system degredation and most average Joe's don't maintain their car properly as it is.

Plus it remaining a black art and a tightly held secret by those in the know have sealed it's fate.

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

LPG had potential, has a high octane rating, is better out the exhaust, just the application was poor in most cases.

1940s tech mixer ring on modern cars, limiting the air intake to approx 40mm diameter etc.

Super sensitive to ignition system degredation and most average Joe's don't maintain their car properly as it is.

Plus it remaining a black art and a tightly held secret by those in the know have sealed it's fate.

Don’t forget in WA around 05/06, government gave a $1000+ rebate to get lpg fitted to your car. Within the week a lpg conversion cost went from around $2k to $3.5k for my Nissan patrol....

[EDManual]

I remember havin a HQ back in about 1995 and there was something up with pricing, LPG was about 10 to 15 cents a litre if that! Cost $5 to fill up 60 to 70 odd litres!! We used to floor that around flat out, and it did about 20 to 25 litres per hundred. Good times.

[simon varley]

it's not just fuel though is it? these plants provide lubricants, solvents, chemicals for industry and agriculture, fertiliser bases. the list is long