Falcon Ecoboost vs EcoLPI - the daily proposition

[Franco Cozzo]

Good morning ladies, gentlemen, spaceships, unicorns and ASIO

Considering replacing my tired LV TDCI Focus with either an Ecoboost Falcon sedan or an EcoLPI Falcon Ute, the Focus is still mechanically OK but body wise it's got air leaks from the door seals and the rear quarter windows have been leaking water for a long time now

There's a couple fairly cheap Ecoboost povvo spec Falcon sedans circling the second hand markets around the Eastern seaboard.

At the moment my daily commute is around 110km, 90% country highway, 10% suburban driving, I generally have an average speed of 70km/h across 850km or so between refills, at the moment a refill costs around $65 in diesel, average cost for kilometre works out to around 7.5 cents or there about over the last 5000km I've been tracking costs. Using around 5.3-5.7L/100km consistently in diesel and the car gets a bit of a hard time.

No requirement for a ute but it would come in handy due to cheaper rego costs because I live out with the dinosaurs, if I'm going the LPG route then it would be a ute, also no diff bushes.

Looking at FGII with maximum kilometres of 130,000km on the clock.

Car will do the odd interstate trip once or twice a year but I don't go remote, primarily Melbourne to Adelaide or Melbourne to Sydney.

Tows a 6x4 box trailer fairly often but I doubt this would be a problem for a Falcon.

Pros/Cons of these options, what they're like to live with as a daily and has anyone got real world examples of Ecoboost and EcoLPI Falcon?

Alternatively have also been considering LPG VF Commodore in povvo spec Evoke trim - have a VF SV6 Sportwagon with 3.6L LFX engine pool car at work and it does 8L/100km on my work commute, I think the VF LPG cars are more fuel efficient than the EcoLPI though a deficit of power and torque.

Had considered MD Mondeo Trend or Ambiente but they're around twice the price and I'm suspect on how well it's body would deal with my abusive driving style, towing and our crappy road conditions since the Focus hasn't fared real well over the 211,000km since I've owned it new.

[BENT_8]

What about a ZB Commodore?
Good straight line speed, good brakes, good for towing, good aero, fuel efficient and as no one really knows what they are, cheap.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

What about a ZB Commodore?
Good straight line speed, good brakes, good for towing, good aero, fuel efficient and as no one really knows what they are, cheap.

Had considered, would cross shop it against MD Mondeo but I think the Mondeo would drive better, has a broader range of peak torque rather than just between 3000-4000 RPM like the ZB Commodore

[EBSXR6]

Is there LPG available close to home?

[Citroënbender]

Alfa 147GTA. You only live once, this is in line with your proclaimed heritage as well.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Is there LPG available close to home?

Yeah, my local servo and the one near work both have LPG.

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Alfa 147GTA. You only live once, this is in line with your proclaimed heritage as well.

Would be good for weight loss becoming a cyclist with my 110km commute

Originally Posted by minheim

If planning to keep the new car for a while I would be cautious about a dedicated LPG falcon especially if planning interstate trips out of Victoria. The ecoboost falcon looks a better proposition.

Its a concern, realistically I've had my Focus for a decade now so I tend to hold onto my dailies for a long time.

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Id buy an FG2 Ecoboost for the simple fact that GAS is only getting harder to find.

Good solid car the FG2 and the ecoboosts seem pretty bullet proof (and cheap coz apparently no one wants them).

The only other option for me would be a MD Mondeo Diesel, ours has only done 80k but has been pretty faultless. Not sure how they would cope on poor roads but the taxi companies in the UK seem to get a good long term run out of them. The economy blows my mind, but they are dearer to service with the DCT needing a service every 60k.

I'm hesitant to buy another diesel car and don't want anything with a DSG as they're too fragile, while my Focus has been reliable it had the EGR disabled early on in its life, it doesn't have a DPF and it's manual.

I do like the MD Mondeo wagon, or even the hatch but basically the FGII Falcon with the same engine under the hood with a ZF behind it is literally half the price, plus RWD

Originally Posted by hayseed

A Blinged up Thai Dualcab ...

PX Ranger single cab with a tub or cab chassis, 17" alloys, lowered 20-30mm with Shockworks magic all round and a 2.3L Ecoboost and I'm sold!

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I thought Franco had gone a bit quiet, so I called his office and asked them to check on him:

image

Source

Was in the air between Melbourne and Brisbane when I made the OP - in flight Wifi courtesy of QANTAS.

Now I'm at work on lunch

[BENT_8]

Nice silver FG2 G6 Ecoboost here in Adelaide with 135k for under 10k Franco.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Nice silver FG2 G6 Ecoboost here in Adelaide with 135k for under 10k Franco.

Just had a look on car sales, couldn't see it, is it on Facebook marketplace?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Just had a look on car sales, couldn't see it, is it on Facebook marketplace?

Gumtree, its in a yard called Auto's123 or something at Mile End, was formerly Zooper Cars, a susidiary of the Stillwell group, Prydey bought his Tezza from them.

Still listed, easyauto123.com.au

[minheim]

If planning to keep the new car for a while I would be cautious about a dedicated LPG falcon especially if planning interstate trips out of Victoria. The ecoboost falcon looks a better proposition.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Id buy an FG2 Ecoboost for the simple fact that GAS is only getting harder to find.

Good solid car the FG2 and the ecoboosts seem pretty bullet proof (and cheap coz apparently no one wants them).

The only other option for me would be a MD Mondeo Diesel, ours has only done 80k but has been pretty faultless. Not sure how they would cope on poor roads but the taxi companies in the UK seem to get a good long term run out of them. The economy blows my mind, but they are dearer to service with the DCT needing a service every 60k.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Good morning ladies, gentlemen, spaceships, unicorns and ASIO

Considering replacing my tired LV TDCI Focus .

A Blinged up Thai Dualcab ...

[Citroënbender]

I thought Franco had gone a bit quiet, so I called his office and asked them to check on him:

Source

[Swordie]

I'd go for the Ecoboost sedan over a the ute if doing lots of kms. It will be more comfortable, more space plus handle better with more airbags. Ecoboost don't seem that popular and seems some well specified ones can be found like the G6. Ecoboost sedan tows 1600kg where as the petrol is around 2300kg.

[Mr Brooksy]

It's funny, Tony, Linz, Greg and I were talking yesterday about the Ecoboost Falcons and saying how much of an interesting little package they are. Especially now that the Ecoboost has been tuned a bit here and there.

I'd take the Ecoboost over the LPG for one reason alone. Tune-ability.

An LPG NA i6 is a great motor, but ultimately (even though faster stock vs stock) the turbo 4 will have so much more potential. The only question we all had was the reliability aspect. If you break an i6, there are a million out there ready to swap in. But the turbo 4 will be much more expensive to replace and aftermarket parts is potentially a question mark.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

It's funny, Tony, Linz, Greg and I were talking yesterday about the Ecoboost Falcons and saying how much of an interesting little package they are. Especially now that the Ecoboost has been tuned a bit here and there.

I'd take the Ecoboost over the LPG for one reason alone. Tune-ability.

An LPG NA i6 is a great motor, but ultimately (even though faster stock vs stock) the turbo 4 will have so much more potential. The only question we all had was the reliability aspect. If you break an i6, there are a million out there ready to swap in. But the turbo 4 will be much more expensive to replace and aftermarket parts is potentially a question mark.

I'd say with an EFR 6258 it would wake up very quickly

It's the same engine as what's in an LW Focus ST, there's an issue with the high pressure fuel pump not being able to keep up once you start talking 350hp, and then weak ring lands on pistons after you do auxiliary port injection fuelling

You're on the money with parts availability but that's the same as my LV TDCI Focus, I've got a cracked intake pipe that makes squealing noises but it has a unique flange connecting to the turbo but they were made obsolete after a few years and they're impossible to get from wreckers.

[EBSXR6]

I have a 2013 G6E Ecolpi, 109,000 Kms.
Always run it with Climate Control.
Service costs are higher than Petrol.
Commute from Doncaster East to Clayton fuel use according to computer is around 19 L/!100.
Don't do a lot of country driving but jumped on Eastlink and reset trip commuter tonight and fuel dropped to 11.7L/100.

Massive price difference in LPG the other night filled up at 60.4 /Litre and few Km away some rip off merchant charging 81.9 / Litre.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I have a 2013 G6E Ecolpi, 109,000 Kms.
Always run it with Climate Control.
Service costs are higher than Petrol.
Commute from Doncaster East to Clayton fuel use according to computer is around 19 L/!100.
Don't do a lot of country driving but jumped on Eastlink and reset trip commuter tonight and fuel dropped to 11.7L/100.

Massive price difference in LPG the other night filled up at 60.4 /Litre and few Km away some rip off merchant charging 81.9 / Litre.

That's been a good thing about diesel - the price is very stable, it doesn't vary up and down hugely like both unleaded and LPG seem to.

Put it into perspective, couple other cars in our family fleet on the same trips with the same driver (yours truly lol)

WZ Fiesta ST - 6.5L/100km
WS Fiesta CL - 6.3L/100km (this looks good but its the same car as the above with half as much torque and half as much power, what a ****box)
Lebonator - 15L/100km
LV Focus - 5.5L/100km

If you compare my diesel Focus to the old man's ST - the Focus is pretty lame, they both make the same amount of torque (320nm), the ST makes an extra 60KW though - Mountune package.

[EBSXR6]

[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6569520]That's been a good thing about diesel - the price is very stable, it doesn't vary up and down hugely like both unleaded and LPG seem to.

One thing I am not sure about with the ECOLPI ute, do they come with a full size spare tyre?
The sedans have the temp repair kit or the small tyre.

[GT1533]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

One thing I am not sure about with the ECOLPI ute, do they come with a full size spare tyre?
The sedans have the temp repair kit or the small tyre.

My 2011 FG upgrade XR6 ecolpi Ute has the full size spare.

[PG2]

[QUOTE=EBSXR6;6569556]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's been a good thing about diesel - the price is very stable, it doesn't vary up and down hugely like both unleaded and LPG seem to.

One thing I am not sure about with the ECOLPI ute, do they come with a full size spare tyre?
The sedans have the temp repair kit or the small tyre.

You can have a full size spare in an ECOLPI sedan (it was a factory option) - you just sacrifice a lot of boot space.

[janddbone]

LPI ute for the win.

[383hq]

I am in a similar situation to yourself
I side stepped from a 2012 MC mondeo tdci (which I really enjoyed until service time) to a FG 2 falcon, 2013. I tend to buy a car thats 1-3 yr old with low km, run the km up to around 200k and sell it, then rinse and repeat, but I"m at 155k on the FG2 and can't see myself selling this one at 200k.

Any money saved on the fuel efficiency of the TDCI was spent on Servicing, but it was a great car. MC tdci was 1000-1200km tank (driving at 110-130 km/h, 95% highway) but at 190,000 km, I lay awake at night knowing any failure would require costly parts - turbo, fuel injection, fuel pump, gearbox etc, so i traded it in and bought a low km xr6 as I had no yard stick to measure highway longevity of the tdci mondeo.

FG2 4 litre, oil is still golden at 15k km on highway runs. I did some oil analysis at 23k and it was still well good - could have changed oil filters and gone 25k-30k km (synthetic)

I've done 110k km now in the FG2 and love its simplicty. Just get use to filling up 550-650k km if you sit on 110+ km/h regularly. I feel like it'll last mechanically until 3-400k km easily with highway driving, its probably closer to 700k km in reality...

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

Never an issue with the mondeo, and thought I had a slight cooling problem with the falcon after I'd driven it 90k km, so precautionary change of drive belt, tensioner, thermostat, and coolant (about $250 in parts)

PS Don't knock the french - they'll let you do 130 on the freeway, let em get on with their revolution

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I am in a similar situation to yourself
I side stepped from a 2012 MC mondeo (which I really enjoyed until service time) to a FG 2 falcon, 2013. I tend to buy a car thats 1-3 yr old with low km, run the km up to around 200k and sell it, then rinse and repeat, but I"m at 155k on the FG2 and can't see myself selling this one at 200k.

Any money saved on the fuel efficiency of the TDCI was spent on Servicing, but it was a great car. MC tdci was 1000-1200km tank (driving at 110-130 km/h, 95% highway) but at 190,000 km, I lay awake at night knowing any failure would require costly parts - turbo, fuel injection, fuel pump, gearbox etc, so i traded it in and bought a low km xr6 as I had no yard stick to measure highway longevity of the tdci mondeo.

FG2 4 litre, oil is still golden at 15k km on highway runs. I did some oil analysis at 23k and it was still well good - could have changed oil filters and gone 25k-30k km (synthetic)

I've done 110k km now in the FG2 and love its simplicty. Just get use to filling up 550-650k km if you sit on 110+ km/h regularly. I feel like it'll last mechanically until 3-400k km easily with highway driving, its probably closer to 700k km in reality...

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

Never an issue with the mondeo, and thought I had a slight cooling problem with the falcon after I'd driven it 90k km, so precautionary change of drive belt, tensioner, thermostat, and coolant (about $250 in parts)

PS Don't knock the french - they'll let you do 130 on the freeway, let em get on with their revolution

Thats interesting on the fuel economy you got out of the Mondeo, they both have the same engine, did it have a larger tank? Doesn't matter if I drive from home to Adelaide or just my daily commute to work, fuel economy doesn't really change:



the 6.1L/100km was my return trip from Adelaide - average speed was much higher

Going over there, yep 5.7L/100km even though I go point to point without stopping.

Also always with the A/C on - its never really been turned off, I leave it on and control the temperature with the heater.

[janddbone]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I am in a similar situation to yourself
I side stepped from a 2012 MC mondeo tdci (which I really enjoyed until service time) to a FG 2 falcon, 2013. I tend to buy a car thats 1-3 yr old with low km, run the km up to around 200k and sell it, then rinse and repeat, but I"m at 155k on the FG2 and can't see myself selling this one at 200k.

Any money saved on the fuel efficiency of the TDCI was spent on Servicing, but it was a great car. MC tdci was 1000-1200km tank (driving at 110-130 km/h, 95% highway) but at 190,000 km, I lay awake at night knowing any failure would require costly parts - turbo, fuel injection, fuel pump, gearbox etc, so i traded it in and bought a low km xr6 as I had no yard stick to measure highway longevity of the tdci mondeo.

FG2 4 litre, oil is still golden at 15k km on highway runs. I did some oil analysis at 23k and it was still well good - could have changed oil filters and gone 25k-30k km (synthetic)

I've done 110k km now in the FG2 and love its simplicty. Just get use to filling up 550-650k km if you sit on 110+ km/h regularly. I feel like it'll last mechanically until 3-400k km easily with highway driving, its probably closer to 700k km in reality...

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

Never an issue with the mondeo, and thought I had a slight cooling problem with the falcon after I'd driven it 90k km, so precautionary change of drive belt, tensioner, thermostat, and coolant (about $250 in parts)

PS Don't knock the french - they'll let you do 130 on the freeway, let em get on with their revolution

Our AU does low 8's day in, day out on the open road out here.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

My FG xr6 6sp did 7's if I was the sole occupant. Most trips I did had 4 occupants and a boot full of luggage however still managed very low 8's on interstate trips.

Falcons are great cruisers.

[Roger1960]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.

In early January, I drove from Adelaide to Edithburgh, which is on the Yorke Peninsula here in South Australia. My Falcon BF MK 2 Fairmont, measured full tank to full tank, did 7.71 L/100 KM cruising at 100 - 110 KM/H. That gives you a maximum range of 882 KM from a 68 litre tank.


I should add that I had ideal conditions for the trip, low 20's weather, mostly flat roads, light traffic etc. Falcons are great open road cruisers, and are certainly capable of good fuel economy, if you look after them and don't go over 110 KM/H

[Franco Cozzo]

Got our VF SV6 pool car at the moment, GM LFX engine - today's commute is a bit longer than usual as I'm working out of the SE Suburbs - 105km door to door with two traffic lights.



That's with my usual driving, so a few overtakes and cruising around 110-120km/h out regional and bringing it back when I'm in Melbourne.

Now I'm aware what the odometer says and what the real world says are probably two different things but reckon an Ecoboost Falcon would pull similar numbers? This VF has 200,000km on the clock, is filled with 98.

I hate the way this thing drives, it's got no torque under 4500 RPM and there's a huge dead zone on the throttle, you can't lean on the throttle you need more articulation of ankle to get it to respond to slight throttle inputs

The car itself is nice - except the stereo sucks and the seat is too wide and you sort of flop around in the seat.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Got our VF SV6 pool car at the moment, GM LFX engine - today's commute is a bit longer than usual as I'm working out of the SE Suburbs - 105km door to door with two traffic lights.

image

That's with my usual driving, so a few overtakes and cruising around 110-120km/h out regional and bringing it back when I'm in Melbourne.

Now I'm aware what the odometer says and what the real world says are probably two different things but reckon an Ecoboost Falcon would pull similar numbers? This VF has 200,000km on the clock, is filled with 98.

I hate the way this thing drives, it's got no torque under 4500 RPM and there's a huge dead zone on the throttle, you can't lean on the throttle you need more articulation of ankle to get it to respond to slight throttle inputs

The car itself is nice - except the stereo sucks and the seat is too wide and you sort of flop around in the seat.

Sub-7 is pretty good figures for the VF.

I drove a VF Calais V 3.6 from Melbourne back to Adelaide, with climate on I was getting 7.0/100 with cruise set on 106km/h in 100km/h zones in Victoria (because scared by stories of your cops having no leniency), then getting 7.8/100 with cruise set on 122km/h once I got into SA's 110 zones.

Only had one suitcase and doubt Calais V has too much more weight that SV6. Calais V has 19s, maybe SV6 has 18s?? Or maybe the Calais V was a bit tired but only had 83k km on it.

Oh yeah, wide seat was no issue for my barge-****

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I've done 110k km now in the FG2 and love its simplicty. Just get use to filling up 550-650k km if you sit on 110+ km/h regularly. I feel like it'll last mechanically until 3-400k km easily with highway driving, its probably closer to 700k km in reality...

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

I get low 8s with purely highway driving with my FG at 110. I have a mate who had an FG2 who claimed 7s, but whether that was being slightly newer, tuned, or a bit of an exaggeration I couldn't say.

When I drive from Brisbane to Winton I'll fill up at Roma and then at Barcaldine, although once Barcaldine had no fuel so I pushed on to Longreach. Just about 700km, and I was probably doing 80 from Ilfracombe onwards. Probably would have made it at 110, still had a little bit of range left according to the trip computer.

Also, 420k, still going strong.