Electric Ford Transit - How will this work?

[fiestaz]

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...g-to-australia

Ford have said they are bringing the Electric Ford Transit in 2024 to Aus. Now I am fine with electric cars, but that’s not the question I am asking.

The scenario is you start work with an employer who gives you a company car to take home. Very common. Along with it comes a fuel card to fuel it. You don’t go to the depot or office as you work on site or as a courier, travelling around all day.

How is it going to work with an electric van? Electricity allowance? The car counts the KWh it uses, and the employer pays for that at a particular rate? Employer pays employee for an hour to go to a quick charger? Charger installed at employees home? Employee needs off street parking?

For me, I drive an Iload. I can’t charge at site, am often not there long enough. Charging from a 10A power point won’t be enough to keep the battery topped up for the 500-600kms a week I do (proposed range of the transit is 300+km), I live in a rental, who pays for the charger install and then again when I have to move? Do I need to park in the garage now (van won’t fit, not kicking personal cars out for a car I don’t own).

I see this as a complex situation, not even just from a van usage point of view, company cars in general, if they become electric, what happens? I think the idea of an electric company car falls to pieces here. Far too many variables to keep these things charged and running in my eyes. Will work for some, but for many it won’t.

[Franco Cozzo]

They'll probably have you leave your van at site, have the chargers at your base and then you take your personal car to and from home/base.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They'll probably have you leave your van at site, have the chargers at your base and then you take your personal car to and from home/base.

Outside of that being a complete pain for myself (I’d want a payrise for losing the company car for personal use) not all places will have enough space to park and charge several cars/vans each night.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Outside of that being a complete pain for myself (I’d want a payrise for losing the company car for personal use) not all places will have enough space to park and charge several cars/vans each night.

I'm hearing ya, I know what you mean but its pretty common now where they have 'pool cars' rather than 'company cars', I think it may be a tax minimisation strategy or some creative accounting stuff that's above my security clearance

All our guys had their company cars taken off them.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm hearing ya, I know what you mean but its pretty common now where they have 'pool cars' rather than 'company cars', I think it may be a tax minimisation strategy or some creative accounting stuff that's above my security clearance

All our guys had their company cars taken off them.

Yeah that is true. Government departments do this a lot.

I guess I’m just seeing it from my point of view. My company car has my tools, my set up ready for work. I leave from home and travel from site to site all day, rarely going into the office. I know a few companies with plenty of employees on the roads with company cars staying at the employees home. Not sure a pool car set up or parking the company car at the office scenario would work here.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They'll probably have you leave your van at site, have the chargers at your base and then you take your personal car to and from home/base.

The cars at my work travel from 120,000 to 200,000kms a year. I wonder if they even spend enough time parked at the depot to charge the battery. Fast chargers or nothing I guess.

[whynot]

Well, let's do some maths ...

68kWhr battery into 300km implies a consumption of 0.226kWh per kilometre (which sounds about right).

Doing 600km per week suggests a power consumption of 136kWh per week. Plug in your current electricity bill rate (mine is $0.20 per kWh) and this comes up with a fuel bill of $27.2 per week. Given that this cost is relatively fixed, the employer might choose to simply give one an extra $30 weekly pay. But, I am sure unions will come up with something creative.

As an aside, the diesel is around 10l/100km. Assuming 600km per week (60 litres of diesel), currently around $2 per litre, gives a fuel bill of $120 per week.

As for recharging, a standard socket outlet gives 2.3kWh. Assuming that the vehicle is sitting in the garage 10hrs per night, this gives around 23kWh of recharge per night.

Assuming 600km per week implies a daily run of 120km, which needs 26.4kWh (say 27kWh to keep the maths cleaner).

Running through a weekly recharge schedule ...

Monday morning, fully recharged (over the weekend), capacity is 68kWh.
Monday evening, the battery capacity will be 68-27kWh = 41kWh.

Tuesday morning, the battery has recharged by 23kWh. The battery capacity will be 41+23= 64kWh.
Tuesday evening, the battery capacity will be 64-27=37kWh.

Wednesday morning, the battery has recharged by 23kWh overnight. The battery capacity will be 37+23=60kWh.
Wednesday evening, the battery capacity will be 60-27=33kWh.

Thursday morning, the battery has recharged overnight by 23kWh. The capacity will be 33+23=56kWh. Thursday evening, the battery will be 56-27=29kWh.

Friday morning the battery has partially recharged overnight by 23kWh. The capacity will be 52kWh. By Friday evening the battery capacity will be 25kWh.

Assuming the vehicle has some down time over the weekend, it will need around 19 hours to fully recharge.

As for recharging in the home, yes, I agree that a significant proportion of the population does not have ready access to an additional power outlet for EV recharging or even space in the yard / unit complex. Reading through the information on the Ford web site, it appears that the vehicle will take 42kWh of charge in just over 30 minutes at a fast charging site. Might have to try and slip a charge in over lunch or smoko.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by whynot

Well, let's do some maths ...

68kWhr battery into 300km implies a consumption of 0.226kWh per kilometre (which sounds about right).

Doing 600km per week suggests a power consumption of 136kWh per week. Plug in your current electricity bill rate (mine is $0.20 per kWh) and this comes up with a fuel bill of $27.2 per week. Given that this cost is relatively fixed, the employer might choose to simply give one an extra $30 weekly pay. But, I am sure unions will come up with something creative.

As an aside, the diesel is around 10l/100km. Assuming 600km per week (60 litres of diesel), currently around $2 per litre, gives a fuel bill of $120 per week.

As for recharging, a standard socket outlet gives 2.3kWh. Assuming that the vehicle is sitting in the garage 10hrs per night, this gives around 23kWh of recharge per night.

Assuming 600km per week implies a daily run of 120km, which needs 26.4kWh (say 27kWh to keep the maths cleaner).

Running through a weekly recharge schedule ...

Monday morning, fully recharged (over the weekend), capacity is 68kWh.
Monday evening, the battery capacity will be 68-27kWh = 41kWh.

Tuesday morning, the battery has recharged by 23kWh. The battery capacity will be 41+23= 64kWh.
Tuesday evening, the battery capacity will be 64-27=37kWh.

Wednesday morning, the battery has recharged by 23kWh overnight. The battery capacity will be 37+23=60kWh.
Wednesday evening, the battery capacity will be 60-27=33kWh.

Thursday morning, the battery has recharged overnight by 23kWh. The capacity will be 33+23=56kWh. Thursday evening, the battery will be 56-27=29kWh.

Friday morning the battery has partially recharged overnight by 23kWh. The capacity will be 52kWh. By Friday evening the battery capacity will be 25kWh.

Assuming the vehicle has some down time over the weekend, it will need around 19 hours to fully recharge.

As for recharging in the home, yes, I agree that a significant proportion of the population does not have ready access to an additional power outlet for EV recharging or even space in the yard / unit complex. Reading through the information on the Ford web site, it appears that the vehicle will take 42kWh of charge in just over 30 minutes at a fast charging site. Might have to try and slip a charge in over lunch or smoko.

Thank you for the maths! I would have thought a normal socket would be anywhere near enough. But it doesn’t leave a great of flexibility for long runs or even some personal use.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Thank you for the maths! I would have thought a normal socket would be anywhere near enough. But it doesn’t leave a great of flexibility for long runs or even some personal use.

Agreed. You probably want to have a well established delivery run. That said, for this type of business case the economics are reasonably clear cut yes or no.

[danzvtil]

It wont suit everyone, but those businesses with back to base fleet (Aust post or council depot) whos vehicles have a set run or stay close by, will suit very well. I can see any shop selling smoko or coffee installing fast chargers so the tradies can drop in and top up while they eat, repeat for every bunnings/reece or electrical supplier.

[kypez]

Just a note on the rental, you could get a 32 amp socket installed rather than fit a charger and simply plug in to it with the charger. Simple and more common than you think where people don't want to mount a charger itself.

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[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

Just a note on the rental, you could get a 32 amp socket installed rather than fit a charger and simply plug in to it with the charger. Simple and more common than you think where people don't want to mount a charger itself.

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Remind us again of the cost of fitting a dedicated 32 Amp socket.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Remind us again of the cost of fitting a dedicated 32 Amp socket.

About $250-$550 from what people have said. Depends on how much wiring is needed in the end and the rates of your sparky. The socket itself isn't much. Cost me $400 at my folks place for a backup.

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[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

About $250-$550 from what people have said. Depends on how much wiring is needed in the end and the rates of your sparky. The socket itself isn't much. Cost me $400 at my folks place for a backup.

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didn't you spend 2 grand at your place?

[BENT_8]

Good luck finding a tradie prepared to do it.

4 years ago I contacted a number of sparkies to arrange a 15a socket to plug my Sons caravan in, the van has long since departed and im still waiting on a call back..lol

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

didn't you spend 2 grand at your place?

Yes (think it was $1500 or so but thats neither here nor there). Because I have 2 chargers that are both 3 Phase and had 30 meters of wiring that I needed to run from the power board to the garage to allow 40amps of current draw.

My single phase charger cost $400 to install. Thats a 32 amp charger that I use in case my mum stays over for a few days with her EV.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Remind us again of the cost of fitting a dedicated 32 Amp socket.

Probably around the same cost as a few tanks of petrol at current prices.

Dr Terry

[au2000]

My work for example with pool vehicles could do this easily as all our travelling is within melbourne mostly.
My son though.. being a tradie with a work issued ute would struggle as his ute wont fit in the garage so sits on the road. He would have to run an extension lead each night to the ute to charge it. On site would not be an option as theres never enough room for every tradie to park in the site or enough power on top of all the rtools etc that are charging or being run to cope..
Unless there is a total ban on selling ice tradie vehicles.. i think its more likely they will run side by side so to speak.

[Franco Cozzo]

Isn't a 32A socket 3 phase power/415V? One imagines probably there in an apartment complex due to some massive shared AC system and elevators, but I'm not sure if its there at your typical house.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Isn't a 32A socket 3 phase power? One imagines probably there in an apartment complex but I'm not sure if its there at your typical house.

No sir. You can run 32 amps single phase just fine. About 7kw power draw. Most home chargers are single phase 32 amps given not everyone has 3 phase; The Chargers can be setup to run single phase or 3 phase depending on whats available though some chargers are hard locked to the phase draw they can handle.

No car on market can charge at 32 amps 3 phase bar early Model S with dual chargers. They pulled 32amps (22kw). Most EVs can pull 32amps on Single phase or a max of 16amps on 3 phase (11kw). The BMW iX, EQ Range, Model 3/Y, etc. are all limited to 16amps on 3 phase. Our Model S can do 24 amps on 3 phase. Be interesting what the new Model S does next year.

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

No sir. You can run 32 amps single phase just fine. About 7kw power draw. Most home chargers are single phase 32 amps given not everyone has 3 phase; The Chargers can be setup to run single phase or 3 phase depending on whats available those some chargers are hard locked to the phase draw they can handle.

No car on market can charge at 32 amps 3 phase bar early Model S with dual chargers. They pulled 32amps (22kw). Most EVs can pull 32amps on Single phase or a max of 16amps on 3 phase (11kw). The BMW iX, EQ Range, Model 3/Y, etc. are all limited to 16amps on 3 phase. Our Model S can do 24 amps on 3 phase. Be interesting what the new Model S does next year.

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Well, I stand corrected good sir.

Screenshot this because I generally will die on a hill even if I am wrong

[Bossxr8]

Ford Pro which should be coming here soon, is a division within Ford that does commercial vehicle management. Might offer solutions for these sort of issues.


https://fordpro.com/en-us/


Imagine combining the world-class cars, trucks, vans and SUVs you need to build your fleet with the service options, financing flexibility and telematics data you need to manage it. With Ford Pro, you can do just that and:

Shop for and finance a fleet that suits your specific business needs
Improve fleet uptime through new service and maintenance options
Manage all-electric vehicle charging with E-Telematics1
Monitor your fleet’s vehicle health data with cloud-based software solutions from Ford Pro™ Intelligence™2
Track vehicles and driver behaviors with Ford Pro™ Telematics2

[Pokitren]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford Pro which should be coming here soon, is a division within Ford that does commercial vehicle management. Might offer solutions for these sort of issues.


https://fordpro.com/en-us/


Imagine combining the world-class cars, trucks, vans and SUVs you need to build your fleet with the service options, financing flexibility and telematics data you need to manage it. With Ford Pro, you can do just that and:

Shop for and finance a fleet that suits your specific business needs
Improve fleet uptime through new service and maintenance options
Manage all-electric vehicle charging with E-Telematics1
Monitor your fleet’s vehicle health data with cloud-based software solutions from Ford Pro™ Intelligence™2
Track vehicles and driver behaviors with Ford Pro™ Telematics2

It sounds like some kind of management system for big business. So far it is not clear what it is for, we seem to manage by ourselves

[Pokitren]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...g-to-australia

Ford have said they are bringing the Electric Ford Transit in 2024 to Aus. Now I am fine with electric cars, but that’s not the question I am asking.

The scenario is you start work with an employer who gives you a company car to take home. Very common. Along with it comes a fuel card to fuel it. You don’t go to the depot or office as you work on site or as a courier, travelling around all day.

How is it going to work with an electric van? Electricity allowance? The car counts the KWh it uses, and the employer pays for that at a particular rate? Employer pays employee for an hour to go to a quick charger? Charger installed at employees home? Employee needs off street parking?

For me, I drive an Iload. I can’t charge at site, am often not there long enough. Charging from a 10A power point won’t be enough to keep the battery topped up for the 500-600kms a week I do (proposed range of the transit is 300+km), I live in a rental, who pays for the charger install and then again when I have to move? Do I need to park in the garage now (van won’t fit, not kicking personal cars out for a car I don’t own).

I see this as a complex situation, not even just from a van usage point of view, company cars in general, if they become electric, what happens? I think the idea of an electric company car falls to pieces here. Far too many variables to keep these things charged and running in my eyes. Will work for some, but for many it won’t.

It seems to me that companies will come up with something by 2024. But the way I see it is that the cost of an electric car will be included in the same scheme as an internal combustion engine car.

[Dr Smith]

For a business like mine, for our metro runs van does 80-150km/day maybe up to 200km if some regional work, this will be perfect.

Our factory has 3 phase already, I'll even buy a charger if I have to and imagine 198kW in a delivery van....if they can carry up to 1000kg I'm ordering, if they can carry 1000Kg and tow 2000kg and maybe in AWD I'll buy two.

[whynot]

Putting my sparkie's hat on ... the tricky bit is not the cost or the installation difficulty of the final circuit (be that 15A, 20A, or 32A). The tricky bit is recalculating the impact on the installation's maximum demand calculation and the subsequent impact on the correct sizing of the consumers mains (the wiring from the overhead pole or underground pillar to the switchboard).

Most houses pre-1976 standard, particularly if they had gas cooking and heating, were wired with 6mm2 consumer's mains. This size wiring has a rating of 32 amps.

More common practice up until recently is for consumer's mains to be wired in 16mm2 cable, with a rating of 63 amps. A typical maximum demand calculation for a home with electric heating and cooking would be somewhere around 50 amps.

In the latest edition of AS3000 (which, by law is the definitive document on wiring rules) an electric vehicle's contribution to maximum demand is taken at 100% load.

Depending on the exiting maximum demand calculation, a dedicated EV connection point can easily push the maximum demand calculation beyond the rating of the existing consumers mains and the rating of the existing switchboard.

Uprating both (switchboard and consumer mains) could be big dollars. But, as the saying presently goes ... if you can afford an EV, you can also afford a switchboard upgrade. It is really a case by case basis that requires a site visit by an electrician.

Not trying to put people off an EV, but it is worth something checking out if you are thinking about installing a charger larger than 2.3kW.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by whynot

Putting my sparkie's hat on ... the tricky bit is not the cost or the installation difficulty of the final circuit (be that 15A, 20A, or 32A). The tricky bit is recalculating the impact on the installation's maximum demand calculation and the subsequent impact on the correct sizing of the consumers mains (the wiring from the overhead pole or underground pillar to the switchboard).



Most houses pre-1976 standard, particularly if they had gas cooking and heating, were wired with 6mm2 consumer's mains. This size wiring has a rating of 32 amps.



More common practice up until recently is for consumer's mains to be wired in 16mm2 cable, with a rating of 63 amps. A typical maximum demand calculation for a home with electric heating and cooking would be somewhere around 50 amps.



In the latest edition of AS3000 (which, by law is the definitive document on wiring rules) an electric vehicle's contribution to maximum demand is taken at 100% load.



Depending on the exiting maximum demand calculation, a dedicated EV connection point can easily push the maximum demand calculation beyond the rating of the existing consumers mains and the rating of the existing switchboard.



Uprating both (switchboard and consumer mains) could be big dollars. But, as the saying presently goes ... if you can afford an EV, you can also afford a switchboard upgrade. It is really a case by case basis that requires a site visit by an electrician.



Not trying to put people off an EV, but it is worth something checking out if you are thinking about installing a charger larger than 2.3kW.

Parents house is a 1970 house and had 83 amps available and didn't have an issue with the EV charger plug (the 32amp plug). L1 had no issues in their calculations nor did the L2.

That's said, I'm sure there are a few houses that would fall foul of the limits you have advised but they probably need an upgrade by now anyway.

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[Dr Smith]

Do you want fries on your tray table.....Some more info on the upcoming EV Transit Custom...

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...of-2024-launch

[au2000]

Be interesting to see how a etranst goes when fully loaded
The f150 towing tests were interesting, would a fully loaded etransit last a full day of courier work in the city or would it need at least 1 charge?
I can see proper tradies having to charge these once loaded at least once maybe twice a day.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by au2000

Be interesting to see how a etranst goes when fully loaded
The f150 towing tests were interesting, would a fully loaded etransit last a full day of courier work in the city or would it need at least 1 charge?
I can see proper tradies having to charge these once loaded at least once maybe twice a day.

Can’t see it being a problem to most tradies.They go to the site,most times for a few hours then off either to the next job or home at the end of the day.Some probably go and park in a loading zone to get their takeaway lunch,but most wouldn’t do 100km/ day