G6E turbo

[daryle]

Not real sure where to post this so will give this a try.
Base question is why did Ford bring out a HP car with a single rear wheel diff?
In my extended experience over many years i have found a limited slip diff much more stable than a single wheel drive diff. Take a wet road take off as an example. Single drive diff "usually" will just power you in a straight line BUT on occasion i have had a very nasty "hook" effect usually to the left. In fact that was so bad in an EF wagon i got to the point i was actually a bit scared to do a wheel spin takeoff in the wet with this car. With a LSD i have found you can get a "fishtail" type effect which can get out of control but not nearly as quickly as with a single wheel drive diff. On the other hand i have driven many Fords with LSD rear ends and have never had this "hook" effect.
Last was with a highly modified Detroit locker setup. So am asking i suppose why did Ford put a single wheel diff in a top of the line performance car?
Thanks.

[M&Ms]

Yep, pretty stupid, when a Holden Calais could be equipped with an LSD (even XR6 falcons in the BA series could be, and you go back further and the 108kW-less EL Fairmont Ghia had an LSD).
But, it's been 14 years since FG release, so if one really wants a limited slip rear end, there are aftermarket options galore now.
Ford Australia has never really been in tune with what enthusiasts and motorists want

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

Yep, pretty stupid, when a Holden Calais could be equipped with an LSD (even XR6 falcons in the BA series could be, and you go back further and the 108kW-less EL Fairmont Ghia had an LSD).
But, it's been 14 years since FG release, so if one really wants a limited slip rear end, there are aftermarket options galore now.
Ford Australia bean counters has never really been in tune with what enthusiasts and motorists want

I edited your post....The engineers knew exactly what enthusiasts wanted as they were just as enthusiastic.

[daryle]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I edited your post....The engineers knew exactly what enthusiasts wanted as they were just as enthusiastic.

Fondly remember a test cell with 4 HO engines all at peak revs, red hot exhausts etc. Went home at night to come back the next morning to see 3 survived and 1 unfortunately dead. To say the engineers were excited would be a gross understatement. Test cell was completely covered in thick wood on the inside for obvious reasons. Also remember an exec driven phase 3 on the board for sale at $4250. Hindsight is wonderful.

[Dr Smith]

XR6T and XR8's in FG's only came factory LSD equipped....as to why well I guess they figured G6ET buyers wouldn't need it......obviously a cost thing really in the end.....I had one from new back in 2008, never really missed not having an LSD but then again I really picked my times where I pushed it in the wet....

[jpd80]

In the older V8 Fords on rainy days, you could select 2 and take off in second gear with no nasty Rear wheel torque steer to the left

[Bossxr8]

Someone in marketing would have figured the G6ET would be driven by older gentlemen who would never resort to such tomfoolery as spinning wheels. And ditching the LSD would be a nice little cost saver.

Did that turn out to be wide of the mark. Probably see more getting heavily worked over than XRT's now.

I could never figure out why they didn't at least offer it as an option.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Someone in marketing would have figured the G6ET would be driven by older gentlemen who would never resort to such tomfoolery as spinning wheels. And ditching the LSD would be a nice little cost saver.

Did that turn out to be wide of the mark. Probably see more getting heavily worked over than XRT's now.

I could never figure out why they didn't at least offer it as an option.

It was only after my wife drove the G6ET for the first time and spun the inside wheel making a left turn did she comment once home, "the new car is a bit quicker than the wagon" ..wagon being a BA Futura wagon written off after being rear ended while stationary.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I could never figure out why they didn't at least offer it as an option.

I'd assume it would have required its own unique DSC calibration.

It would have been a waste of money developing and maintaining it as an option given the likely uptake and little return of this option.

It would be similar to why BF FPV's never got DSC. FPV couldn't afford to develop a DSC tune for these vehicle combinations, so it remained a ABS/TCS braking system and advertised it as "real FPV drivers don't want/need an interfering stability control system".

If they couldn't afford to amortise it over all the cars they made then LSD as an option would be even less of a probable business case for the G6ET. So just save the money.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

If was quite funny in my first few months of ownership in '08 and before the wider public really new what they were performance wise how much fun it was having SS drivers think they could overtake on the inside...should have handed out specs so they could read the red TURBO badging.

It was just as much fun and even longer lasting in my Force 6. The FPV badges were so tiny it looked like a de-badged XR6. So they kept trying and trying.

My favourite was coming off the old Kings Way exit in Melbourne with this d*ckhead in some clapped out VT or VX egging me on down the exit. I'd speed up and brake very late (because I could) all the way down the exit, semi normal driving for me while still having my bit of fun. It was early Saturday night, so traffic was a bit busy.

Get to the bottom of the exit and light turns yellow so I hammer through knowing I can make it and stop quickly behind the cars at the next set of lights. Thought I'd finally be free of d*ckhead.

But no, Mr Hero, d*ckhead of the clapped out Commo, attempted the same, but his brakes were nowhere as good and rammed the rear end of the car in the next lane at prob 30 or so km/h.

I remember just sitting there looking at him giggling while Mrs D*ckhead in the passenger seat ripped him a new one.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by arm79

I'd assume it would have required its own unique DSC calibration.

It would have been a waste of money developing and maintaining it as an option given the likely uptake and little return of this option.

It would be similar to why BF FPV's never got DSC. FPV couldn't afford to develop a DSC tune for these vehicle combinations, so it remained a ABS/TCS braking system and advertised it as "real FPV drivers don't want/need an interfering stability control system".

If they couldn't afford to amortise it over all the cars they made then LSD as an option would be even less of a probable business case for the G6ET. So just save the money.

I don't think an LSD changes the DSC calibration in anyway. The DSC reacts to what the vehicle is doing, not how it's doing it. XR6's had the option of LSD and I doubt they had separate calibrations. The diff isn't going to change the way the DSC pulls the vehicle back into line. From my understanding of it anyway.

FPV's were a different case on BF's because they had suspension/wheels etc that were different from XR. They had 19's and Brembo's when BF XR didn't have that option. Those 2 things do change the way the DSC would react, as it brakes individual wheels, and the 19's would have had different grip levels to the 18's.

I know one of the brake department engineers who does EBD and DSC calibration. I'll ask him next time I see him, if I remember.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

XR6's had the option of LSD and I doubt they had separate calibrations. The diff isn't going to change the way the DSC pulls the vehicle back into line. From my understanding of it anyway.

I was just scanning through the FG sales brochures here, for other reasons, and it says LSD was not an option for an FG XR6. Standard in the turbo and XR8, but not available on anything else. Even though I thought it would have been.

I know LSD was available across the the BF range, but not when fitted with a ZF for some reason. Wasn't available on the old Ghia either.

I understand how the DSC works. But I was looking at it from the perspective how how it might handle things like control when under power. Turning a corner under power will light up the inside wheel on a single spinner but might send the rear end sliding with an LSD. Just speculating there might be something different needed to handle those situations.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

FPV's were a different case on BF's because they had suspension/wheels etc that were different from XR. They had 19's and Brembo's when BF XR didn't have that option. Those 2 things do change the way the DSC would react, as it brakes individual wheels, and the 19's would have had different grip levels to the 18's.

Again I understand the FPV's were a different case. But just further speculating that IF a different DSC calibration was required financially it might not have made sense given a believed uptake.

If FPV couldn't afford to make it work across 3 years of BF vehicle production then maybe Ford decided they couldn't make it work for the G6ET.

On a side note, I found out a couple of years into owning my Force 6 that it contained the same shocks as in a basic XR6. Was rather disappointed finding that.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by arm79

I was just scanning through the FG sales brochures here, for other reasons, and it says LSD was not an option for an FG XR6. Standard in the turbo and XR8, but not available on anything else. Even though I thought it would have been.

I know LSD was available across the the BF range, but not when fitted with a ZF for some reason. Wasn't available on the old Ghia either.

I understand how the DSC works. But I was looking at it from the perspective how how it might handle things like control when under power. Turning a corner under power will light up the inside wheel on a single spinner but might send the rear end sliding with an LSD. Just speculating there might be something different needed to handle those situations.



Again I understand the FPV's were a different case. But just further speculating that IF a different DSC calibration was required financially it might not have made sense given a believed uptake.

If FPV couldn't afford to make it work across 3 years of BF vehicle production then maybe Ford decided they couldn't make it work for the G6ET.

On a side note, I found out a couple of years into owning my Force 6 that it contained the same shocks as in a basic XR6. Was rather disappointed finding that.

I could have sworn LSD was an option on xr6. There certainly are m78’s that have LSD for sure. Unless it dates back to BA/F.

[Vesper Martini]

I haven't driven a G6E but do they have ESC or Traction control at least?

Edit I'm pretty sure they do,

So for the G6E being more of a Luxury car than a sports car I guess Ford decided that would be adequate

Should have been an option though

[T3rminator]

Was the G6E T marketed as a "performance" car?

Would guess it was to further differentiate the G6E T from the XR6 T.

Have sat in a G6E T of a mechanic's car. Very nice!

[Dave R]

Would a G6ET with LSD have earned many additional sales, or mainly cannibalised XR6 Turbo sales? It was probably a good move to differentiate them.

I assume Ford's thinking was that with a decent stability control system (which they had), you don't necessarily need an LSD. The G series DSC tune was more conservative than the XR tune I believe (which would allow the car to fishtail with the system turned on, it was great). The C63 AMGs of that era didn't come standard with LSDs in several markets either, similar thinking perhaps.

[DFB FGXR6]

I remember there being a similar thread posted in the F6, XR6T and G6ET sub-forum on this topic a number of years ago. There was some consensus that G6ET was faster in a straight line due to the single spinner. Not sure what that was based on though.

As mentioned, these were marketed as executive expresses, designed for the open road. An LSD was considered not required.

[T3rminator]

Similarly, the 5.4L 3v (barra 220), which I think has a flatter torque curve than the XR8, did not come with LSD either (unless it was a manual, which was rare).

Again, I think it was just a differentiating factor, aside from body kit and interior. And the barra 220 was never marketed as a "performance" car.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Similarly, the 5.4L 3v (barra 220), which I think has a flatter torque curve than the XR8, did not come with LSD either (unless it was a manual, which was rare).

Again, I think it was just a differentiating factor, aside from body kit and interior. And the barra 220 was never marketed as a "performance" car.

I remember taking a BA XT 5.4 manual for a drive. Based on how it behaved trying to get out of the dealership quickly, definitely did not have an LSD. I had to wait until traffic was clear and pull out a little slower.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Would a G6ET with LSD have earned many additional sales, or mainly cannibalised XR6 Turbo sales? It was probably a good move to differentiate them.

I assume Ford's thinking was that with a decent stability control system (which they had), you don't necessarily need an LSD. The G series DSC tune was more conservative than the XR tune I believe (which would allow the car to fishtail with the system turned on, it was great). The C63 AMGs of that era didn't come standard with LSDs in several markets either, similar thinking perhaps.

Considering the G6ET cost more and i assume had the same profit level, i don't think it would have hurt XR6T sales.

In my case I wanted all the performance plus all the luxury without needing to add any options and really wanted the sleeper looks of the G6ET...

(It still bugs me to this day the G6ET had drop down lhd side mirror when reverse gear is selected and adjustable foot pedals all sync'd with each key fob while the Titanium Terry's doesn't even have them at all.)

If was quite funny in my first few months of ownership in '08 and before the wider public really new what they were performance wise how much fun it was having SS drivers think they could overtake on the inside...should have handed out specs so they could read the red TURBO badging.

As Boss mentioned, LSD should have been at least an option.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Would a G6ET with LSD have earned many additional sales, or mainly cannibalised XR6 Turbo sales? It was probably a good move to differentiate them.

I assume Ford's thinking was that with a decent stability control system (which they had), you don't necessarily need an LSD. The G series DSC tune was more conservative than the XR tune I believe (which would allow the car to fishtail with the system turned on, it was great). The C63 AMGs of that era didn't come standard with LSDs in several markets either, similar thinking perhaps.

Ford would have preferred to sell more G6ET's than XRT's though, because they were more expensive and no doubt more profitable.


When my tax return comes in i'm buying a tru-trac for mine.

[Burnout]

Mmmm, interesting to see the comments here of 2nd hand (potential) buyers of a G6ET.
I am an older gent (69old) with a G6ET, it has been (tastefully), modified to 450rwhp. and when desired go like an express train on steroids. But only when I need it to. I don't want a 'race car', I want a car that delivers the goods for me. The G6ET fit well, I can cruise down a Motorway at the speed limit an get to where I'm going. It was designed by FoA to be an 'Executive Express', and it does deliver. Sadly for me I wanted more & set out to get it.
The It, I refer to is up to the buyer.
FoA was certain, if you the buyer wanted a race car, the GT & F6 & GT-P were there as a choice.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Mmmm, interesting to see the comments here of 2nd hand (potential) buyers of a G6ET.
I am an older gent (69old) with a G6ET, it has been (tastefully), modified to 450rwhp. and when desired go like an express train on steroids. But only when I need it to. I don't want a 'race car', I want a car that delivers the goods for me. The G6ET fit well, I can cruise down a Motorway at the speed limit an get to where I'm going. It was designed by FoA to be an 'Executive Express', and it does deliver. Sadly for me I wanted more & set out to get it.
The It, I refer to is up to the buyer.
FoA was certain, if you the buyer wanted a race car, the GT & F6 & GT-P were there as a choice.

Well put, dare I say the 2nd or 3rd owners may treat the car differently..
fb photo upload

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I remember there being a similar thread posted in the F6, XR6T and G6ET sub-forum on this topic a number of years ago. There was some consensus that G6ET was faster in a straight line due to the single spinner. Not sure what that was based on though.

As mentioned, these were marketed as executive expresses, designed for the open road. An LSD was considered not required.

It certainly didn't slow them down in stock form. Ran the same 0-100 in 5.1 seconds in Wheels magazine as the XRT did.

Even with 300rwkw they still put the power down reasonably well with good tyres if you feed it in, and don't just mash it to the floor. 275 wide PS4S Michelins anyway. Great tyre.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Well put, dare I say the 2nd or 3rd owners may treat the car differently..
imagefb photo upload

Oh, yes, mine did an 11.8 the only time I took it out for a short gallop.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Well put, dare I say the 2nd or 3rd owners may treat the car differently..
imagefb photo upload

I agree.
But i also disagree.
With the way prices are with turbo falcons now, i think that desire to churn out massive power might have diminished.
Seems people wanting them prefer standard/less wild versions.
I know if i were buying again id want a standard one, as i did when i purchased mine.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I agree.
But i also disagree.
With the way prices are with turbo falcons now, i think that desire to churn out massive power might have diminished.
Seems people wanting them prefer standard/less wild versions.
I know if i were buying again id want a standard one, as i did when i purchased mine.

First preference is always an unmodified car, even if you plan on modifying something yourself, better to know it's been done right yourself or by reputable places.

Unmodified stuff always has the higher price tag.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

First preference is always an unmodified car, even if you plan on modifying something yourself, better to know it's been done right yourself or by reputable places.

Unmodified stuff always has the higher price tag.

A quick look on Carsales shows G6ET's with 50K km around high $40K's-$50K. I paid around that for a new one in 2008.

[DJM83]

Whats all this if you have an LSD you'll have grip nonsense

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Whats all this if you have an LSD you'll have grip nonsense

LSD = more grip for a better trip?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by chevypower

LSD = more grip for a better trip?

You missed my joke.
I have the ute in my signature.
Even standard with an LSD fitted grip is minimal.
Add some mods and T/C just throws its hands in the air