1200 ford workers to be stood down without pay tonight

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by irish2

We can't compete with 3rd world nations unless we become a 3rd world nation. We can pay our workers less so we can become 'competitive' but our workforce often is far more skilled than overseas counterparts and that commands a premium. Why should we compete with people being paid $50 a week when their houses cost $2000 or a few goats. Our cost of living is far greater and the workers need to be able to feed their children without having 2 jobs like many low working class Americans.

I do understand what you're saying, so how do we stop our industry going off shore? I quoted on supplying kitchen components for a large kitchen manufacturer and i couldnt even buy the board for the price they can import finished components of the same quality, how do you stop or compete with that? I know for sure if my manufacturing costs keep going up i'll loose market share OS...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by irish2

They are striking because the company is going to declare bankruptcy and therefore owes them nothing. the company is then going to move and start doing the same thing in a different location. I think you need to re read the press release.

That is illegal... they can't do that by law.
The press release hints at it, but doesnt say that's what WILL happen, but i bet it won't be allowed to happen in that form, they certainly wont/cant have common directors involved in both entities.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ok, so effectively they'll get what they wanted? so why the strike?
By the way, redundancy payments havent been outlawed, they're just not compulsary under some conditions.

The company does not guarantee entitlements. The company is effectively shutting down a place, and not telling their workers. If they were getting what was theirs they would not be on strike.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That is illegal... they can't do that by law.

Thets why people are striking at this very moment.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That is illegal... they can't do that by law.

This is illegal but is widespread. The article states exactly what the company is trying to do. Its the same was that Tom walkingshaw sold Mark Skaife HRT. Smoke mirrors and money magically dissappears and a company is no more. Doesn't stop someone getting private 'investors' and starting a new one.

[Super Snake]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That is illegal... they can't do that by law.

I think that they did do this a few years ago. They owed heaps of money.
Nobody would give them credit.
This was before John Howards Industrial laws.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Thets why people are striking at this very moment.

The laws are very strict in regards to this, im sure if there is a hint of this happening ACCC and ASIC will be all over it.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I do understand what you're saying, so how do we stop our industry going off shore? I quoted on supplying kitchen components for a large kitchen manufacturer and i couldnt even buy the board for the price they can import finished components of the same quality, how do you stop or compete with that? I know for sure if my manufacturing costs keep going up i'll loose market share OS...

We have a skilled workforce and I'm not saying wages should continue their steady increase upward but the cost of living continues to rise and so must pay or we starve. To separate yourself from imports you must produce a product of better quality that the opposition. Not everyone likes buying crap and personally if I have the option of a better built or more innovative aussie product I will pay more than an import that i know will have dubious quality.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by irish2

This is illegal but is widespread. The article states exactly what the company is trying to do. Its the same was that Tom walkingshaw sold Mark Skaife HRT. Smoke mirrors and money magically dissappears and a company is no more. Doesn't stop someone getting private 'investors' and starting a new one.

Skaife and Walky are STILL in hot water though!!! LOL
We havent heard or seen the last of that debarcle.

As a Director If you Bankrupt your company you potentially face jail if you deliberatly trade while insolvent: i.e: not being able to meet employee entitlements or pay the tax dept, these are BIG NO NO's and on this kind of scale will now under the new laws normally get you time inside! I can't see the directors of Ventura wanting to do time by shirking their responsibilities..

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I do understand what you're saying, so how do we stop our industry going off shore?

Easy the same as it was done for decades,tarrifs.
And incentives for local companies,hell I would even go so far as to outlaw local companies manufacturing offshore,was good for our fathers and grandfathers.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Easy the same as it was done for decades,tarrifs.

The problem is tarrifs "can" create a false sense of security and lazy work force, which in turn can cause massive inflation... There is no easy solution, the aussie dollar is just too high.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The problem is tarrifs "can" create a lazy work force and massive inflation though... There is no easy solution, the aussie dollar is just too high.

Workers will always be lazy in managements eyes,as for me,I dont care about that,managing the dollar and creating full employment would cure alot of the social ills we have nowdays,it was a better way.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Workers will always be lazy in managements eyes,as for me,I dont care about that,managing the dollar and creating full employment would cure alot of the social ills we have nowdays,it was a better way.

Mate, i can tell you one thing, employment agencies are SCREAMING for candidates, there is a massive people and skill shortage at the moment, unemployment is very low, in fact one agency i spoke with yesterday said they were loosing their own recruitment staff to take up jobs with their own clients!!!

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Mate, i can tell you one thing, employment agencies are SCREAMING for candidates, there is a massive people and skill shortage at the moment, unemployment is very low, in fact one agency i spoke with yesterday said they were loosing their own recruitment staff to take up jobs with their own clients!!!

They must'nt be paying much then,quite simply really,if you are screaming for workers you offer more money to get them.

[stupa]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Noone strikes without a good reason.

My muffin was cold

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

They must'nt be paying much then,quite simply really,if you are screaming for workers you offer more money to get them.

The issue is there are more job vacancies then people to fill them!!

[steamin63]

i'm sorry 4vman but you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. i was a union site deligate for a food manufacturig plant for 7 years and i can tell you you comments are both incorrect and insulting. australian workers are not spineless idiots that do what ever the union tells them, they are the union. i worked for an australian company that treated its staff with respect, gave us a safe and healthy workplace and and produced product that was world class which we and the owner were very proud of. for 15 years there was not one instance of industrial action. any problems were solved with a friendly chat between those involved and a resolution was found for the company or the worker. we were paid well, the company earned a fortune and everyone was very happy.

that company was bought by an american multi national foodstuffs producer and within 6 months two thirds of the workers and managers had been wrongfully sacked and replaced with non australian labour hire - islanders, asians and anyone else who would work for less than the minimum wage. productivity went down, accidents [some very serious] became common place and the quality of our product went out the window along with some of our best customers. the first to be sacked were the managers[12], then the union delegates[6] and last of all the union members [230+] and we could do stuff all about it because of the legislation put in place by the howard government. within 2 and a half years the factory was closed and the scabs were locked out without their entitlements.

why. because this american company never intended to stay in the market they just wanted to learn how to make our product and get their hands on the equipment they needed.that equipment now resides in mexico. i truly wish i could name names but i can't because i and a number of my workmates are currently trying to get some of our entitlements back through the courts [with the help of OUR union].

if you want to do a bit of union bashing go and join the young liberals. but be carefull, the way things are going you or someone in your family may need to join a union just to protect what is rightfully yours. fair pay, fair condition and fair treatment.

cheers.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by steamin63

. i was a union site deligate .

Ive read enough.. pretty much explains your whole position doesnt it..

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by steamin63

i'm sorry 4vman but you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. i was a union site deligate for a food manufacturig plant for 7 years and i can tell you you comments are both incorrect and insulting. australian workers are not spineless idiots that do what ever the union tells them, they are the union. i worked for an australian company that treated its staff with respect, gave us a safe and healthy workplace and and produced product that was world class which we and the owner were very proud of. for 15 years there was not one instance of industrial action. any problems were solved with a friendly chat between those involved and a resolution was found for the company or the worker. we were paid well, the company earned a fortune and everyone was very happy.

that company was bought by an american multi national foodstuffs producer and within 6 months two thirds of the workers and managers had been wrongfully sacked and replaced with non australian labour hire - islanders, asians and anyone else who would work for less than the minimum wage. productivity went down, accidents [some very serious] became common place and the quality of our product went out the window along with some of our best customers. the first to be sacked were the managers[12], then the union delegates[6] and last of all the union members [230+] and we could do stuff all about it because of the legislation put in place by the howard government. within 2 and a half years the factory was closed and the scabs were locked out without their entitlements.

why. because this american company never intended to stay in the market they just wanted to learn how to make our product and get their hands on the equipment they needed.that equipment now resides in mexico. i truly wish i could name names but i can't because i and a number of my workmates are currently trying to get some of our entitlements back through the courts [with the help of OUR union].

if you want to do a bit of union bashing go and join the young liberals. but be carefull, the way things are going you or someone in your family may need to join a union just to protect what is rightfully yours. fair pay, fair condition and fair treatment.

cheers.

Spot on.

Ed

[Nostalgia]

As a ex Coghlan Russell employee this is just a little bit of history repeating. With a totally different twist. Venture has the money to pay workers entitlements, as did the Director of Coghlan Russell, But he chose to hide it.

[steamin63]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive read enough.. pretty much explains your whole position doesnt it..

very small minded dont you think. i was asked to be a delegate by my manager to represent our section in eba negotiations, until then i had never even been in a union. you wouldn't be a small business owner would you?.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive read enough.. pretty much explains your whole position doesnt it..

LOL.


I still do not understand the need for a unions, workers are hard enough to get as it is, if your not happy with your current employer, walk away and find a new one, if enough people walk out, companies will soon realise that they need to do something with regard to how they reward and treat their employees.

From a business owners point of view I think its alot harder to find workers today then it is for workers to find jobs, therefore any employer with half a brain will actually reward its employees in a way in which they are happy and content to stay working for them.

The manufacturing industry is over in Australia, its had it time and cannot compete with 3rd world manufacturing. If you look at Holden for example 60% of its parts are manufactured offshore, this allows them to produce cars at a cheaper cost, while manufacturers here that supply Ford struggle to supply parts at prices that match overseas suppliers to keep the business.

Its funny how Ford seems to be the most affected by suppliers falling over all the time in Aus, Fords non - global business strategy will kill it eventually... Not having a decent export program is a joke, we have world class cars that are killed by lack of LHD development, it makes little sense to me why the Falcon and Territory couldnt be exported across the world, just like the Camry and Commdore are.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive read enough.. pretty much explains your whole position doesnt it..

And I suppose as a business owner your point of view is unbiased?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

LOL.


I still do not understand the need for a unions, workers are hard enough to get as it is, if your not happy with your current employer, walk away and find a new one, if enough people walk out, companies will soon realise that they need to do something with regard to how they reward and treat their employees.

From a business owners point of view I think its alot harder to find workers today then it is for workers to find jobs, therefore any employer with half a brain will actually reward its employees in a way in which they are happy and content to stay working for them.

The manufacturing industry is over in Australia, its had it time and cannot compete with 3rd world manufacturing. If you look at Holden for example 60% of its parts are manufactured offshore, this allows them to produce cars at a cheaper cost, while manufacturers here that supply Ford struggle to supply parts at prices that match overseas suppliers to keep the business.

Its funny how Ford seems to be the most affected by suppliers falling over all the time in Aus, Fords non - global business strategy will kill it eventually... Not having a decent export program is a joke, we have world class cars that are killed by lack of LHD development, it makes little sense to me why the Falcon and Territory couldnt be exported across the world, just like the Camry and Commdore are.

Very well said.

Also yes, the best way to send a message to a bad employer is leave and find another job...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

And I suppose as a business owner your point of view is unbiased?

Ive just sold off my business (what was left of it) because it can no longer survive in the current climate against imports... Wages are out of control, we've reduced the working week to 38hrs, the aussie dollar is over 82c US, something had to give, unfortunatly this is the tip of the iceberg for Australian manufacturing...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive just sold off my business (what was left of it) because it can no longer survive in the current climate against imports... Wages are out of control, we've reduced the working week to 38hrs, the aussie dollar is over 82c US, something had to give, unfortunatly this is the tip of the iceberg for Australian manufacturing...

Yes we are a Resources nation now, not a manufacturing one, but one day that will end to, and manufacturing might just come back, who knows.

[mik]

if venture is opening up elsewere and and shafting there workers good on the unions for sticking up for them, this country owes unions a lot imo, and spiraling wages is not the only problem its also spiraling taxes which we have in abundance, and the reason for no skilled labour should be blamed on the current government its their policies and lack of foresight that have caused these problems, but its always easier to blame unions and the little people.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive just sold off my business (what was left of it) because it can no longer survive in the current climate against imports... Wages are out of control, we've reduced the working week to 38hrs, the aussie dollar is over 82c US, something had to give, unfortunatly this is the tip of the iceberg for Australian manufacturing...

I've been reading your point of view here, shaking my head, but this is fair comment.

The one thing that keeps me guessing in the never ending war with wages, costs, etc; is that if wages don't rise to cover the cost of living, then how do businesses expect people to buy the goods and services they offer?

This is aplicable to businesses of any size, not just the small ones.

The only winners I see out of all this are the big boys.
Something has to give, and I don't think it is very far away.

Regarding the working week, I don't think you'll find too many people work that as a given any more. They have no choice but to work extra hours to keep the money coming in.

I'll admit that I am an exception to this, but we do have times where we will do 12-14 hours days for at least 6 days straight.

I'd rather spend the least amount of time at work as possible, life's too short to work yourself into an early grave!

Ed

[Scott]

Wake me up if this turns into an anti-union thread..... I could do with a good vent.

Unfortunately with the dollar being so strong our manufacturers & exporters are struggling (spare a thought for NZ manufacturers who are right up the creek atm). Importers are having a field day which makes it tough all round. Where are the days of 48c & 5% when you need them?

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Take a close look at what's happening to large scale manufacturing in Australia, give it 5 years and there wont be any large scale manufacturing here, the less competitive we become because of spiraling wages, strikes, productivity issues etc the quicker these business's will close..
I know its hard to accept but this kind of Industrial action will just quicken the process, and force companies to look OS....

Couldn't agree more. The problem with this country is we are pricing ourselves out of work. Too many people want to be paid more and more but aren't willing to put in the hours. Too many want everything for nothing.

Sure the cost of living goes up, but then the more people are paid the more it goes up to cover the costs (other factors also contribute to this) of these wage increases. Unions I am sorry are out of touch with industry and stir more trouble for employees than they do good. Adding tariffs will do nothing to curb this issue, we will be provided with further shoddy workmanship on products (god can you imagine the falcon being produced with mass protection tarrifs *shudder*). Honestly the way things are going I would rather buy the falcon if it was made overseas, it can't be any worse than here.

It is time to wakeup and rid of the century old industry outlook and realise we are deep in globalisation, we either try and compete or just sit back and do nothing. If we keep up with the current philosophy sure people will get their pay rise but how long will they have a job??