VFacts January 2023.

[Wretched]

Jan figures are as reliable as December figures. Both impacted by the "festive" season shutdown. Month by month figures are not a great indication anyway, quarterly are better.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

No it’s a rubbish juvenile internet post about the last Ford built in Australia, it’s also disrespectful for anyone that engineered, or helped to manufacture the last of the Australian built fords. It has nothing to do with your Tesla obsession.



It’s a “**** post” on “The Australian Ford Forum”, but you’ll argue it isn’t.

Did you buy a FGX? Because I did. If anything you said had weight, why would I have bought one? Silly comment from you.

Your response is quite hyperbolic. If you took all that away from my post, you've got the problem not me.

Like I said, I bought one. Did you? Did you show respect to all these people and buy the car? I'd still have it but for the fact the engine died after the service team filled the wrong oil in.

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[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by kypez

But it outsold the highest selling sedan for a very long time last year. Credit where credit is due, the sedan is selling very well. Some people just can't say one nice thing nor concede that they're going well Because it puts in perspective the result of almost 11,000 cars sold last year and the almost 3000 for January. That even if supply ebs and flows, it's still decent numbers to put on the board early. Monthly numbers were a problem, ok. Yearly result was pretty decent, still nothing good to say. Next year, back to the monthly numbers and waiting to see Yearly numbers. Only for that to be dismissed again.

I don't care for Tesla per say. Point is Ford could be missing a trick by not even trying to address this market locally because certain feedback groups tell them sedans are dead and no one wants an EV.

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Sedans are dead. What do you think is going to happen to Teslas sedans once manufacturers start making ‘affordable” electric SUVs and utes?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Sedans are dead. What do you think is going to happen to Teslas sedans once manufacturers start making ‘affordable” electric SUVs and utes?

Well, I thought that when Y came out that people would switch to it and skip on the 3. Yes, that has happened to a degree and the Y has been a runaway success but people still are buying the 3. Even in markets where supply isn't an issue, the 3 vs Y sales are within a few thousand of each other.

So many people I speak with say they prefer the sedan over the SUV because they just don't need a SUV. I was very surprised by this. Of my immediate friends, in the last month, 3 have ordered 3's and 3 have ordered Y's. The last 2 bought the performance 3 and LR which are more than the base Y but they preferred sedans.

I'm not sure the sedans are dead yet.

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[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say ICE sedans are dead?

[naddis01]

I can't get over the retarded proportions of the Model Y.

On a side note, I was up around North East NSW and South East QLD recently. That area is Tesla central. They are everywhere.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I can't get over the retarded proportions of the Model Y.

On a side note, I was up around North East NSW and South East QLD recently. That area is Tesla central. They are everywhere.

What’s really annoys me is that Ford has Mach E which looks much better to my eyes
but can find no way to sell it here where a certain group of buyers would surely
purchase it over the Y.

Ford sold only a few thousand Mach E’s in China and completely ignored
export sales to our region where Tesla goes unanswered….

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say ICE sedans are dead?

Not dead - niche market, premium product

[kypez]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I can't get over the retarded proportions of the Model Y.

It's very much a case of function over form. They look weird but offer more back seat room than a Prado. Similar leg room to a Patrol from a Small SUV. And very slippery through the air. They also have the largest boot in class by a big margin.

Not the prettiest of course but effective cars.

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[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What’s really annoys me is that Ford has Mach E which looks much better to my eyes

but can find no way to sell it here where a certain group of buyers would surely

purchase it over the Y.



Ford sold only a few thousand Mach E’s in China and completely ignored

export sales to our region where Tesla goes unanswered….

I saw one in KL a couple of months ago and they look even better in person. Funnily, I didn't see many in the US whilst there. Supply must be really slow.

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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

I saw one in KL a couple of months ago and they look even better in person. Funnily, I didn't see many in the US whilst there. Supply must be really slow.

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With regards Mach E production.
Mexico production is split between American supply and European exports,
until CATL can supply its LFP batteries later this year, they’re low volume

[jpd80]

What is annoying is that Ford can’t get sales traction for Mach E in China,
such a shame that they can’t build RHD production for UK, Aus, NZ & Sth Africa

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

With regards Mach E production.

Mexico production is split between American supply and European exports,

until CATL can supply its LFP batteries later this year, they’re low volume

Tesla has CATL sown up. Just like Toyota had done with the semiconductor shortages which affected almost everyone but them due to existing orders/contracts.

Ford need their battery plant online yesterday. Their order size from CATL will always keep them second to Tesla for now. And now with the LG issues, I'm sure Hyundai and everyone else will be looking for another supplier.

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[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Jeep- 307 for the entire month. Entire Jeep range combined was nearly outsold by the Transit.

Yet they think they can sell them with massively inflated RRP's, after tacking on 5 figure price increases on many of their models. How long till Jeep pull the plug? It's looks like they are trying to jack up their prices so high that no one buys them, to then justify why they are pulling out of the country.

Maybe the same management as Honda. It’s $48,000 for a Civic and $55,000 for a Civic Hybrid. That’s a tough sell.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Maybe the same management as Honda. It’s $48,000 for a Civic and $55,000 for a Civic Hybrid. That’s a tough sell.

New Civic Type R is in the $80K range, it's up in price circa $20K on the outgoing model and they toned down it's looks so much it looks like its missing chromosomes 🤡

No worries, $80K front driver that's in the same price range as the Mustang, Supra and Z 💀

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

New Civic Type R is in the $80K range, it's up in price circa $20K on the outgoing model and they toned down it's looks so much it looks like its missing chromosomes 🤡

No worries, $80K front driver that's in the same price range as the Mustang, Supra and Z 💀

It's madness, and by the sound of it it's sold out for quite some time. With that sort of RRP you'd at least expect it be AWD, like the similarly priced Golf R etc.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's madness, and by the sound of it it's sold out for quite some time. With that sort of RRP you'd at least expect it be AWD, like the similarly priced Golf R etc.

They must have found two buyers for the cars they allocated for Australian/NZ market 😅

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They must have found two buyers for the cars they allocated for Australian/NZ market 😅

Its $72600 DA actually and $12k more than previous model - seriously ridiculous agreed and people went on about the new Amarok $7k more from a 12yr old platform.

Honda such a shame are a joke.
A i30N is $20k cheaper for eg.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Its $72600 DA actually and $12k more than previous model - seriously ridiculous agreed and people went on about the new Amarok $7k more from a 12yr old platform.

Honda such a shame are a joke.
A i30N is $20k cheaper for eg.

They've been an absolute clown show for nearly 20 years, thats the era where they dropped all their performance cars and decided to try emulate Toyota in making white goods. The irony about it all is Toyota has started coming out of their shell again and getting back into performance cars.

No more S2000, Integra was gone, the FN2 Civic Type R Australia and Europe got dumped with wasn't even the real Type R either that Japan had (FD2). That thing is an absolute disgrace, shouldn't wear the 'Type R' badge.

The only decent car they had was the Accord Euro which was discontinued in 2014 or something.

Hyundai is the new Honda I reckon, they've been stepping up with their N series cars while making good entry level stuff too.

Hyundai i30 NLine is a mad buy for $35K DA for a daily IMO.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They've been an absolute clown show for nearly 20 years, thats the era where they dropped all their performance cars and decided to try emulate Toyota in making white goods. The irony about it all is Toyota has started coming out of their shell again and getting back into performance cars.

No more S2000, Integra was gone, the FN2 Civic Type R Australia and Europe got dumped with wasn't even the real Type R either that Japan had (FD2). That thing is an absolute disgrace, shouldn't wear the 'Type R' badge.

The only decent car they had was the Accord Euro which was discontinued in 2014 or something.

Hyundai is the new Honda I reckon, they've been stepping up with their N series cars while making good entry level stuff too.

Hyundai i30 NLine is a mad buy for $35K DA for a daily IMO.

Aren’t they withdrawing all their N cars except the Kona?

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They've been an absolute clown show for nearly 20 years, thats the era where they dropped all their performance cars and decided to try emulate Toyota in making white goods. The irony about it all is Toyota has started coming out of their shell again and getting back into performance cars.

No more S2000, Integra was gone, the FN2 Civic Type R Australia and Europe got dumped with wasn't even the real Type R either that Japan had (FD2). That thing is an absolute disgrace, shouldn't wear the 'Type R' badge.

The only decent car they had was the Accord Euro which was discontinued in 2014 or something.

Hyundai is the new Honda I reckon, they've been stepping up with their N series cars while making good entry level stuff too.

Hyundai i30 NLine is a mad buy for $35K DA for a daily IMO.

Don’t discount Honda, they ain’t going anywhere(yes I do own one) but they have a lot of good stuff coming down the line.Jazz Hybrid rumours have been circulating as well.Go & drive the new Type R, it is a cracker of a car, one of the best out there.Honda’s quality is better than Hyundai by a country mile.Fit & finish is superb.Sure they have lost a lot of sales, but that is Tokyo HQ dictating everything.Honda Aus had absolutely no say in what has transpired.Are they overpriced? Probably. I do agree however that they should get back to their roots as they have produced some superb cars over the years. They are supposedly chasing the ‘premium’ market which I think is madness.

[Sprintey]

https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-ca...-record-highs/

lots of good stuff in this one.

"Other key factors that have driven the increase in transaction prices for new cars: a dramatic reduction in the choice of cheap hatchbacks, and a shift to more expensive SUVs, 4WDs, and utes."

Yep, only 144 new Yaris's sold, at near 30Kda whocoodanode?



"A high-ranking industry analyst – speaking on condition of anonymity – said transaction prices have risen as budget-conscious buyers pulled away from the new-car market and “Baby Boomers became an even bigger driving force.”

Aaargh.



"Baby Boomers – the demographic defined as people born after World War II, from 1946 to 1964 – are considered the most prosperous generation and are cashed-up having invested in property before the real estate boom.

“It’s particularly evident because we’re seeing a rise in people who are not necessarily replacing cars, they’re buying an additional car for their household. That’s at record levels,” the industry analyst told Drive.

“It’s not people going from one-car to two-car households, it’s people going from two-car to three-car households.”

Rise of 3 car households



“Baby Boomers are largely unaffected by economic uncertainty,” the industry analyst told Drive. “They’re living off their superannuation and their investments, they’re fine. They’re not worried about rising interest rates because many of them don’t have a mortgage.”

The other telling sign Baby Boomers are behind the surge in prices: “Since 2019, rather than an increase in people financing cars as you might expect during COVID, we’ve seen a decrease in people financing cars.”

Cold, hard caaaaash.



"Given the average age of new-car buyers is over 50, why do car companies aim to project a youthful image in their marketing campaigns?

“The (car companies) listen to their advertising agencies who are populated by young people who think they’re cool and know everything,” the industry analyst told Drive."

Room for improvement here. Sack the ad agencies, then let car ads become more like APIA ads and be better targeted.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-ca...-record-highs/

lots of good stuff in this one.

"Other key factors that have driven the increase in transaction prices for new cars: a dramatic reduction in the choice of cheap hatchbacks, and a shift to more expensive SUVs, 4WDs, and utes."

Yep, only 144 new Yaris's sold, at near 30Kda whocoodanode?



"A high-ranking industry analyst – speaking on condition of anonymity – said transaction prices have risen as budget-conscious buyers pulled away from the new-car market and “Baby Boomers became an even bigger driving force.”

Aaargh.



"Baby Boomers – the demographic defined as people born after World War II, from 1946 to 1964 – are considered the most prosperous generation and are cashed-up having invested in property before the real estate boom.

“It’s particularly evident because we’re seeing a rise in people who are not necessarily replacing cars, they’re buying an additional car for their household. That’s at record levels,” the industry analyst told Drive.

“It’s not people going from one-car to two-car households, it’s people going from two-car to three-car households.”

Rise of 3 car households



“Baby Boomers are largely unaffected by economic uncertainty,” the industry analyst told Drive. “They’re living off their superannuation and their investments, they’re fine. They’re not worried about rising interest rates because many of them don’t have a mortgage.”

The other telling sign Baby Boomers are behind the surge in prices: “Since 2019, rather than an increase in people financing cars as you might expect during COVID, we’ve seen a decrease in people financing cars.”

Cold, hard caaaaash.



"Given the average age of new-car buyers is over 50, why do car companies aim to project a youthful image in their marketing campaigns?

“The (car companies) listen to their advertising agencies who are populated by young people who think they’re cool and know everything,” the industry analyst told Drive."

Room for improvement here. Sack the ad agencies, then let car ads become more like APIA ads and be better targeted.

Advertisers put young cool people in cars because that’s what sells them. They’re perfectly aware that 60 year old Betty will be buying that Kia or Hyundai but they won’t market it directly to her demographic as that doesn’t work. Sticking young funky people in their adds is what sells the cars.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by hackney

Don’t discount Honda, they ain’t going anywhere(yes I do own one) but they have a lot of good stuff coming down the line.Jazz Hybrid rumours have been circulating as well.Go & drive the new Type R, it is a cracker of a car, one of the best out there.Honda’s quality is better than Hyundai by a country mile.Fit & finish is superb.Sure they have lost a lot of sales, but that is Tokyo HQ dictating everything.Honda Aus had absolutely no say in what has transpired.Are they overpriced? Probably. I do agree however that they should get back to their roots as they have produced some superb cars over the years. They are supposedly chasing the ‘premium’ market which I think is madness.

Jazz is dead in Australia. HRV, CRV and Civic are not premium cars. Accord tries to be but is invisible next to any German badge, even VW.
We will be lucky to see 100 Type R nation wide. Probably half that.
If the Jazz Hybrid does land here it’ll probably be $40,000 and that too will be a tough sell against cars like the Polo or Kia Picanto at half the price.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Jazz is dead in Australia. HRV, CRV and Civic are not premium cars. Accord tries to be but is invisible next to any German badge, even VW.
We will be lucky to see 100 Type R nation wide. Probably half that.
If the Jazz Hybrid does land here it’ll probably be $40,000 and that too will be a tough sell against cars like the Polo or Kia Picanto at half the price.

I did not say they are ‘premium’ vehicles, but that is what Honda is trying to push.As far as Jazz goes, it has actually been talked about.Whether it comes to fruition is unknown.Honda need it back.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Advertisers put young cool people in cars because that’s what sells them. They’re perfectly aware that 60 year old Betty will be buying that Kia or Hyundai but they won’t market it directly to her demographic as that doesn’t work. Sticking young funky people in their adds is what sells the cars.

Yeah I know that, being tongue-in-cheek. Here's an ad that will get the older hearts racing (it's honest, the model is more mature. Phwoar.):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk-5rRyPphk

[kypez]

Honda followed the Toyota model of making commuter cars and abandoning the performance segment bar the type R. Unfortunately for Honda, it hasn't worked in their favour and whilst Toyota are now charging a premium for their products and their buyers are willing to pay the extra for a Toyota, they are not willing to do the same for the "volume" models with Honda.

Personally, I like that the Type R has stayed true to its FWD heritage and fought the temptation to go AWD. They'd be just another AWD hot hatch. The price is higher than it should be but if the order books are full, they're doing what their customers want.

I'd have hated an AWD Falcon or Mustang. Stay true to your roots if you can.

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[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

So many people I speak with say they prefer the sedan over the SUV because they just don't need a SUV. I was very surprised by this. Of my immediate friends, in the last month, 3 have ordered 3's and 3 have ordered Y's. The last 2 bought the performance 3 and LR which are more than the base Y but they preferred sedans.

I'm not sure the sedans are dead yet.

We obviously talk in different circles, everyone I've spoken to would never go back to a sedan.

When I compare my SUV with a Sedan, there are simply no ticking box's for the Sedan.

sales figures & Automakers seem to reflect this. its not a trend

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

We obviously talk in different circles, everyone I've spoken to would never go back to a sedan.

When I compare my SUV with a Sedan, there are simply no ticking box's for the Sedan.

sales figures & Automakers seem to reflect this. its not a trend

Yes, they are so easy for ingress & egress, especially as you get to that ‘geriatric’ stage! Nobody wants conventional sedans anymore.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

We obviously talk in different circles, everyone I've spoken to would never go back to a sedan.

When I compare my SUV with a Sedan, there are simply no ticking box's for the Sedan.

sales figures & Automakers seem to reflect this. its not a trend

Maybe it is the age groups we're a member of. I offered to swap out our Model 3's for a Model Y SUV for my mum (66) and my inlaws (66 and 72) and both said no, the Y is too big, we prefer the sedan!! Go figure.

The numbers for California, the home of the SUV, make interesting reading in a market that has both vehicles for sale for over 12 months.

The Model 3 was the bestselling EV in California in 2022 with 94,683 sales, followed by the Model Y (93,872)

I agree with you and expect Australia to favour SUVs but it isn't a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio that I thought it might end up.

Even with our Model Y, I still prefer our Model S. Give me a Sedan every day of the week.