Has Vicroads lost the plot?

[Full Noise]

The road with the give way signs isn’t the main road, the other road (Borung Highway) has priority.

Cheers

[Redrum]

Vic Roads, like all Government departments, are restricted in their duty to the state by one major factor, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As stated by others, the intersection is clearly signed, and the evidence thus far, would lead to the conclusion as driver error.

What would have been an easy band aid fix by Vic Roads though would be those bloody annoying bumps they stick on a lot of country intersections to warn drivers of the impending conclusion of their road.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Just to clarify a bit-
In relation 'freeway/motorway', by world standards, these have 'interchanges' not 'intersections', such as your VICROADS designated "Hume freeway" which has a combination of both grade seperated interchanges but also has some 21 'intersections' between NSW and Nth Melbourne. That road is far from being freeway or motorway class design by my foreign standards.

Intersections of any desgn are inherently more dangerous than interchanges.

The UK follows in mirror-reverse continental EU design in relation to its motorway interchanges, whilst a second-motorway will generally depart off to the left of a 'through' motorway (not an interchange) and are signposted as you say 'get in XX lane etc', the EXITS and ENTRIES on these will, on major routes, be ONLY off and into the left lane.

Median EXIT and ENTRIES (on-ramps) are generally prohibited for construction in GB so as not to clash with the keep left rule. The same thing applies in Germany and indeed Australia, with the exception of some new arterials being built in Sydney such as the Gore Hill tollroad, to leave a part of this length, one must sit in the right hand lane to both ENTER and LEAVE.

Such road design will NOT be designated 'freeway' or 'motorway' and those designs have serious inherent dangers as we have seen from Sydney's M5 East. I expect btw the speed limit to be 60km/h, and will be surprised if it is given 80km/h.

Thanks for the clarification, Keep Left. The exits at the locations I mentioned are on the left, however just before the exit an additional left lane starts unexpectedly as the signs above the freeway shows the existing lanes as the exit lanes. It is very confusing, and one has to recognise that there is another lane starting, and you have only a short distance to change into the left hand exit lanes. Perhaps if the signage was better, it would be much better, but in any case the UK allows much more time to get into the correct lane(s).

On the Calder Highway between Melton Highway and Calder raceway, there are several access roads in between the divided road, and vehicles enter the 100 or 80kmph (depending which way you're going) highway lanes without any speedup lanes. Some of these turning cars go straight across onto the left lane, others stay in the right lane, regardless of whats coming in what lane. Causes sudden braking, sudden lane changing and general mayhem.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

On the Calder Highway between Melton Highway and Calder raceway, there are several access roads in between the divided road, and vehicles enter the 100 or 80kmph (depending which way you're going) highway lanes without any speedup lanes. Some of these turning cars go straight across onto the left lane, others stay in the right lane, regardless of whats coming in what lane. Causes sudden braking, sudden lane changing and general mayhem.

These entry points and exits are bloody dangerous, especially during peak hour. I am aware of a fatal at Robertsons Road late last year, Vic Roads shut off the exit after this. Calder Park Drive and Sunshine Ave near some massive work, even if they slow the road down and stick some lights or round abouts in......

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Hmm yeah you can see those signs quite clearly. What I find weird though is why when the road is straight where that Falcon is heading why is the give way there. You're not changing direction at all. Surely it would be better to switch the give way the other way?

Thats why I think this intersection has an inherent danger, which should have been recognised by Vicroads when they assessed it in 2000.

Originally Posted by REDRUM

As stated by others, the intersection is clearly signed, and the evidence thus far, would lead to the conclusion as driver error.

Yes it is clearly signed, however I can understand due to the human factor, there is a possibility that mistakes can be made, largely due to the layout of this intersection. We dont know how many close calls there have previously been, however it only takes one accident for it to reach the news.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yes it is clearly signed, however I can understand due to the human factor, there is a possibility that mistakes can be made, largely due to the layout of this intersection. We dont know how many close calls there have previously been, however it only takes one accident for it to reach the news.

This is true. As Vic Roads stated it had already been pointed out as a potential black spot along with thousands of other intersections. I am sure if they had an endless budget they could fix them all. It is a terrible what occurred. I wonder of the intersections fixed, how many crashes have been avoided.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Redrum

These entry points and exits are bloody dangerous, especially during peak hour. I am aware of a fatal at Robertsons Road late last year, Vic Roads shut off the exit after this. Calder Park Drive and Sunshine Ave near some massive work, even if they slow the road down and stick some lights or round abouts in......

I do have a relatively low cost solution, bearing in mind there's no funding for overpasses. Do what they did to the South Gippsland highway, and put in 3 large roundabouts, one at Sunshine Ave, one at Calder Park Drive, and one at the Calder Raceway entrance. Close off everything else including the exits from the BP station (exit from the Calder Raceway roundabout). Also remove those dangerous steel posts they've put in right next to the roadway. Then they can return the limit to 100kmph, as it is on Sth Gippsland Hwy.

However this section of road has suffered from bad planning when developing the area for housing. They should have got the funding for overpasses from the developers when they were subdividing.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Here’s a pic from the Herald Sun showing the stop signs at the intersection.

Just looking at that photo I would have to say VicRoads shares some of the blame. Having the side road coming into the bend of the highway like that is just asking for trouble. NSW practice is to deviate the side road so that it enters the main road at a right angle. In that photo therefore the road that the photo is taken from would veer to the left to enter the highway at a right angle. Therefore any vehicle would be forced to slow down because of the right-angle intersection - an extra failsafe measure on top of the give way sign. It would also prevent the driver having to look back over his left shoulder at an extreme angle to see if traffic is coming from the left.

Its easy to say the driver should have given way but what if he had the sun in his eyes or something, didn't know the road and saw just a nice straight road ahead? A recipe for disaster. We have problems in NSW but when I see that I feel sorry for Victorian motorists. Really dumb and dangerous design.

[Keepleft]

New2Ford - I agree, Vicroads shares some of the blame. I recall police about 40 years back were asking for a re-design?? Surviving family members can sue on the basis of nevous shock, it is one way of actually ensuring action to remedy the situation, hopefully with a better solution, - and that shouldn't be too hard to achieve in this instance.

The term 'Highway Hypnosis' has some bearing here, and has a momentary lapse in attention.

Whilst the Borung highway is the through road, it is appropriate sometimes to give a key-through-route a give-way sign or similar treatment, this would be a reverse of the current treatment you see in the pic.

In any case that the intersection is to be re-engineered, is itself an admission of a need to correct a now quite clear safety issue. We can be thankful we have a small comparative population.

I have seen some odd Vic roadway treatments that are not applied interstate, over the years as harmonisation of roads, signs and markings advances, we'll see fewer discrepencies in them.

[Full Noise]

A bit of an update on this thread.

Some interesting reading here.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=281443

Fatal collision driver 'smoked cannabis'
Monday Aug 6 15:00 AEST

The driver who caused a crash that killed seven people in Victoria's north-west last year was severely affected by an unprecedented level of cannabis, the Victorian Coroner's Court has heard.
Five adults and two young children died when a sedan smashed into a van travelling in the opposite direction on the Borung Highway, near Donald on September 26.
The coronial inquiry into the crash was today told the driver of the sedan, 38-year-old Maxwell Purdue, smoked marijuana in the hour leading up to the crash that killed him and six others.

Mr Purdue drove the sedan through a give-way sign at a notorious Y-intersection on the highway and collided with the van.
Police investigator Sergeant Brendan Butland, of the major collision investigation unit, told the court he had not ever seen such a large reading of cannabis in anyone's toxicology report.
"[The reading was] way up there. I don't know, and I don't know of anyone in our office, who knows of anybody [who's recorded] a reading that high."
Sergeant Butland said it was hard to measure how much of the drug Mr Purdue had smoked because it could not be quantified like alcohol, but insisted it was a significant amount.
Toxicologist Morris Odell told the court smoking marijuana would affect all of the skills

[EL XR8]

So can anyone else tell me another road, that has a give way sign facing you, when travelling on a straight piece of road, and the 'main road' is coming to a 'T' intersection???
That Give way sign is absolutely ridiculous. I couldn't care less is that road from the left (that is approching a T intersection in all reality) is the Hume Hwy, they should be made to give way, not the way it actually is.

Don't get me started on the Calder Fwy, that whole stretch of road has been one big -up after another.
THere is one solution and one only. Block off access to the Fwy from Sunshine Avenue, Robertsons Road, and Calder Park Drive, and have an overpass that joins up with Kings Road, as there is land set aside for this.
No more of this we couldn't organise a root in a brothel type from the Vic Govt. and put an 80km/h speed limit on a dual lane seperated Fwy!!!!!
They need to pull their finger out, and spend some of the revenue they make. Or will this take another multiple fatality for them to do something.

And another thing... they better not put a toll on a road like this that, just because they put an overpass in!!!!!!! It should be done, without a qualm in the world, as they should budget for it.

[Full Noise]

Two questions, EL XR8.

Did you read any of the other posts in this thread?

Did you read the link that I’ve posted?

[EL XR8]

Yes i have read through this whole thread before i did post.
I'm not blaming the Govt. for that strecth of road at all, if thats what you're implying. I just cannot believe that the road is sign posted the way it is. If you just stand back and look at it for a second, it is plain and simply 'just stupid'. Why would a road that continues on in a straight direction without veering off course at all, have to give way to a road that is coming to an intersection or junction is beyond me. People should and would still be able to navigate that intersection safely, but why is it left in such a state that is still clearly dangerous and confusing.

I feel sorry for the other innocent people who have lost their lives, because of some tool who was on drugs.

[Silver Ghia]

I agree what you're saying EL XR8. People, especially the authorities (or maybe its the media?) just seize on one reason and disregard everything else that may have contributed.

Yes the drugs seem to have affected the drivers capability of driving safely and caused the driver to miss the signage, but it certainly looks like that intersection was waiting for an accident to happen, especially as it was recognised as such many years previously.

And the Calder - yes.... I shake my head every day as I pass, at the incompetence of whoever thought up the ideas they have implemented, wondering if I'll be retired down the coast before something properly is done to that stretch of road.

[Elks]

A few points if I may,

1. There are plenty of bad roads and intersections arpound Vic. and we have some of the best roads in Oz.

2. Accidents usually occour when a couple of things arise at once. In this case a messy intersection & a stoned driver. Yes the intersection is marked and I would have said clearly but add the stoned driver and...

3. My favorite is this type of interection in Truck. T try and take off from a Y intersection when you cant see past 90 degrees to your left. They do it all the time. Think about it Trucks have only front side windows then solid walls for the sleeper.
4. Vicroads never new where the plot was, there could not have lost it

[Interceptor]

myts, you think its bad for trucks? on at least one coal mine haul road up here they've got a similar intersectionbeing used for not only conventional oversized triple roadtrains (with the vision problems you cited) but also the bigger rear dump haul trucks, which have even worse driver visibility....... when im on the mines, my work ute is a twincab navara, and combined with the amount of crap in the back of the cab plus (usually) my boss not getting his damn head out of the way, i usually end up weaving across the haul road approaching the give way sign just so i can see who or what is coming....

i can see someone getting squished someday

[[Tonko]]

Hmm, I take alot of those sorts of roads around here, and have never had a problem with low visibility or not being able to see signs, no matter how many shotgun pellets have hit them, it just takes a little more time to check out whats going on around it... But then again, I havent been stoned off my head and taken them on...