Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X vs. Subaru Impreza WRX STI - Page 3

Disciple · 08-10-2007, 06:44 PM

What's interesting is that Subaru are not adhering to the "gentlemans agreement" which I thought ended years ago, between manufacturers for power output to be limited to 276hp (206kW) More importantly is that the 2.5L engine is producing the same amount of torque as the 2L in the EVO X but at a higher RPM - I think EVO X produces 422Nm @ 4000RPM (could be 4400 as there are conflicting reports) No doubt EVO X 4B11 actually produces more than the 206kW quoted.

MITCHAY · 08-10-2007, 06:52 PM

I think those specs are from an EJ20 twinscroll not an EJ25

Interesting times ahead though especially with the new 4B11.

Disciple · 08-10-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I think those specs are from an EJ20 twinscroll not an EJ25

Interesting times ahead though especially with the new 4B11.

Oh, really? The EJ20 - well that's impressive then. The feeling around the place is that the 4B11 will be even more tuner friendly than the 4G63 - time will tell.

CSV_LS1 · 09-10-2007, 07:59 PM

New STI is looking good.

Sourbastard · 09-10-2007, 08:02 PM

who cares if its fast, looks like it should have the backseat covered in groceries, power rangers and child capsules.

kooky · 09-10-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

New STI is looking good.

Seconded Mauz, I love it

:

:

Interior shot:

MITCHAY · 09-10-2007, 08:35 PM

Looks a lot better in those pics. Let's hope the specs are like I mentioned above or not far off. And in that picture where it says 0-400m apparently means it will be 5% faster so high 12s to low 13s look the go

:

CSV_LS1 · 09-10-2007, 08:54 PM

If i were to be in the market for a car early next year i definitely would be looking at one of these.

One thing to note is that up to the previous model sti of the current pignose their drivelines were stronger. Since they were 2 litres, they were homologated for the rally meaning good bits. But since they've had the 2.5 litre the STI have the weaker bits in them. Including engine. The WRX gets a forester engine and the STI is a modified version of that engine but not to the extent that the old spec 2 litres of previous models.

MITCHAY · 09-10-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

If i were to be in the market for a car early next year i definitely would be looking at one of these.

One thing to note is that up to the previous model sti of the current pignose their drivelines were stronger. Since they were 2 litres, they were homologated for the rally meaning good bits. But since they've had the 2.5 litre the STI have the weaker bits in them. Including engine. The WRX gets a forester engine and the STI is a modified version of that engine but not to the extent that the old spec 2 litres of previous models.

The EJ20 STis had forged internals AFAIK but I've heard nothing but good things about the EJ25.

The Tokyo Motor Show is in a few weeks where all will be revealed. Then it's time to put the EVO and STi head to head

ST · 09-10-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

New STI is looking good.

Am I missing something? It looks horrible. It's got as much aggression as the average seniors hatchback.

I've always found WRX's to be an abomination as far as looks go, but this takes the cake.

CSV_LS1 · 09-10-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The EJ20 STis had forged internals AFAIK but I've heard nothing but good things about the EJ25.

The Tokyo Motor Show is in a few weeks where all will be revealed. Then it's time to put the EVO and STi head to head

They are a good engine but not upto the same high standard of the 2 litre. I'm talking on the modded side of things though.

Ralliart · 09-10-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The EJ20 STis had forged internals AFAIK but I've heard nothing but good things about the EJ25.

The Tokyo Motor Show is in a few weeks where all will be revealed. Then it's time to put the EVO and STi head to head

yeah b** fight with them 2 beasts

kooky · 10-10-2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

They are a good engine but not upto the same high standard of the 2 litre. I'm talking on the modded side of things though.

Mauz there are some guys pulling 220 to 240kW at the wheels out of a standard bottom end 06-07 WRX, most of the 2.5 issues were with the US 2.5 engined cars. Something to do with a lower grade fuels IIRC.

Have not seen that many 2.5 STi's but they seem to be pulling some really good numbers, the 2 litre WRX's threashold would be 200 to 210kW and the STi 220 to 230 kW.

Disciple · 10-10-2007, 06:47 AM

I've seen EVO 9's pulling 270kwatw on stock internals and stock turbo, running 11.5's. 4G63 has it all over the EJ20 or EJ25 when it comes time to mod.

MITCHAY · 10-10-2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

I've seen EVO 9's pulling 270kwatw on stock internals and stock turbo, running 11.5's. 4G63 has it all over the EJ20 or EJ25 when it comes time to mod.

The 4G63 was an iron block, closed decked. The new 4B11 is an aluminium block, open deck. Correct? Do they run forged internals in either engine?

But yes a lot will agree with you at the moment (even the Suby blokes) but we have to see how well the 4B11 holds up.

soulfire · 10-10-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Much better cars available in Australia for that price.

Care to name a few that are 60 grand and in what way are they better?

On the EJ25, heard plenty of people in the 12s with an exhaust and retune - and I thought they had forgies?

Steffo · 10-10-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulfire

Care to name a few that are 60 grand and in what way are they better?

On the EJ25, heard plenty of people in the 12s with an exhaust and retune - and I thought they had forgies?

I might... since I agree...

FPV F6 Typhoon & HSV Clubsport R8... faster (straight line), more practical

Volkswagen Golf R32 & Audi S3... as fast in every way, better made, better resale value, more practical, not as expensive to insure, better image, safer, more comfortable, more economical and just about every possible thing that can be better about them... is better. That about covers it.

perrys · 10-10-2007, 04:50 PM

Steffo, I have to say you're FOS.

"Volkswagen Golf R32 & Audi S3... as fast in every way," - R U FOR REAL?

"better made," - What you mean by better made? looking pretty? VW has awful reliability, just go check out about any reliability study done around the world

"better resale value, " - Rely on bloody expensive options, I recently checked out second hand R32s on carsales.com.au, just about every example has upgraded seats, sunroof, etc. The driveaway price of those is ridiculous, hence the seemly high resale price

"more practical," - R U FOR REAL AGAIN? S3 is only a three door hatch. how about 3 door R32? pratical?

" not as expensive to insure," - Evidence pls
" better image," - depends what you think really, driving a tiny 3 door hatch has better image?

" safer, more comfortable, more economical " - Evidence pls
"and just about every possible thing that can be better about them... is better." - Your conclusion is as CONVINCING as EVER!

Disciple · 10-10-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

I might... since I agree...

FPV F6 Typhoon & HSV Clubsport R8... faster (straight line), more practical

Volkswagen Golf R32 & Audi S3... as fast in every way, better made, better resale value, more practical, not as expensive to insure, better image, safer, more comfortable, more economical and just about every possible thing that can be better about them... is better. That about covers it.

From what I've seen an F6 does the quarter in high 13's, same as the Clubsport - an EVO 9 is still faster. Practical? EVO 9 still has seating for 5 adults and a big boot. Golf R32 and Audi S3 as fast in every way and the rest - you have to be kidding mate. I'll maybe give you more comfortable because they're not so focused on performance. Get real man.

Steffo · 10-10-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

From what I've seen an F6 does the quarter in high 13's, same as the Clubsport - an EVO 9 is still faster. Practical? EVO 9 still has seating for 5 adults and a big boot. Golf R32 and Audi S3 as fast in every way and the rest - you have to be kidding mate. I'll maybe give you more comfortable because they're not so focused on performance. Get real man.

Try again. F6 is a high 12 sec machine. Just read up on this very forum a bit... 12.73 @ 109mph, 12.94 @ 104mph, and another 12.98 @ 1xxmph. The best manual time I've seen stock on AFF was 13.262 @ I think 104.62mph. I've also personally seen one in real life beat an R34 Skyline GT-R in a drag race.

The VE HSV's are also low 13/high 12 second machines. Forget stupid Wheels & Motor times, they're very below bar. They're the guys who did 13.3 in a Lamborghini Gallardo that does 11.8 in European and American and Japanese publications?

Evo and STi don't stand a chance against the two in a drag race.

Disciple · 10-10-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Try again. F6 is a high 12 sec machine. Just read up on this very forum a bit... 12.73 @ 109mph, 12.94 @ 104mph, and another 12.98 @ 1xxmph. The best manual time I've seen stock on AFF was 13.262 @ I think 104.62mph. I've also personally seen one in real life beat an R34 Skyline GT-R in a drag race.

The VE HSV's are also low 13/high 12 second machines. Forget stupid Wheels & Motor times, they're very below bar. They're the guys who did 13.3 in a Lamborghini Gallardo that does 11.8 in European and American and Japanese publications?

Evo and STi don't stand a chance against the two in a drag race.

They all seem to trap the same speeds, an EVO 9 will trap around 102-105mph. JDM EVO's will trap around 105-107. In the real world that's a poofteenth of difference and throw one turn into the equation and the F6 and HSV will be left for dead.

You seem to talk a real lot of crap man - I haven't read any of your other posts on this forum, but I hope they're not mostly in the same vein. You haven't replied to any of the crap you sprouted about an Audi S3 and Golf R32 being as fast in any situation.

Steffo · 10-10-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

They all seem to trap the same speeds, an EVO 9 will trap around 102-105mph. JDM EVO's will trap around 105-107. In the real world that's a poofteenth of difference and throw one turn into the equation and the F6 and HSV will be left for dead.

You seem to talk a real lot of crap man - I haven't read any of your other posts on this forum, but I hope they're not mostly in the same vein. You haven't replied to any of the crap you sprouted about an Audi S3 and Golf R32 being as fast in any situation.

A tenth and 1 mph alone are a very large and noticeable difference in a drag race... over a car length.

The Golf R32 and Audi S3 have something that until the Evo10 no WRX STi or Lancer Evolution has had on its side. Its called a DSG gearbox. You know what that is, right? The famous twin-clutch, twin input shaft, electronically controlled sequential manual gearbox originally designed by Porsche in the late 1970s for use in their LeMans winning racecars like the 962.

That transmission can change gears in 8ms (0.008 sec). A human being can't. Couple that with launch control... and... well... with one gearshift.. the DSG can take 0.2-0.6 sec off a 0-100km/h time (that's with a professional at the wheel of the manual car, not Joe Average) and it can take even more off a 1/4 time simply by eliminating the weakness that is the slow-shifting human being with their h-pattern manual & foot operated clutch pedal. And with the launch control they get off the line better then a human feathering two pedals can.

I've driven a DSG equipped GTI Golf, I know every bit how effective that gearbox and the technology it features really is. With a DSG, STi's and Evo's will be eating R32 and S3 dust. These cars are a handling match, especially in the hands of normal drivers, not professionals who can push cars to the very highest limits of their capabilities. Couple that with superior technology and you get the idea.

And that's the current Golf R32 with the 184kW 320Nm V6 3.2. Which is being replaced, early 08, by the Golf R36. 220kW and 390-400Nm 3.6litre V6. With all the DSG-equipped goodness of the current Golf.

The new Golf R36 and the new Evo10 with its dual-clutch 'box will be something to see and interesting. And if Audi makes good on the rumoured RS3 (225kW and nearly 450Nm from its 2.0 Turbo FSI 4cyl engine).. it will be an interesting competition. Suffice to say, with new, superior technology, there will be a gap between these cars and the WRX STi, which so far doesn't seem like it will have anything comparable.

Disciple · 10-10-2007, 05:32 PM

What about how unreliable the DSG gearboxes are? And the huge amount of problems Golf drivers have with them and the cars in general? An R32 or S3 will not even come close to an EVO 9 in a straight line or on a track, and if you think 0.1 second and 1MPH means anything on the street you're dumber than I thought. A car length is not a big distance when you consider it's at the end of a 400m race... I doubt you've ever driven an EVO, because if you had you wouldn't be comparing it to a Golf. My JDM EVO will do 0-100km/h in 4.5s - how long does a Golf R32 take? 6.5? This is redundant now because you obviously hate EVOs and STi's or you have no respect for them or both. Your loss I spose.

Deadman · 10-10-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Volkswagen Golf R32 & Audi S3... as fast in every way

And yet you mention:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

A tenth and 1 mph alone are a very large and noticeable difference in a drag race... over a car length.

There is no way that an R32 is "as fast in every way" compared to either an STi or Evo - esspecially if you say that a tenth is a "very large and noticable difference" - if that's the case you might as well say that the R32 wouldn't even be able to see an Evo after 400m because you'd be looking at over half a second difference ;)

It's all good trying to put things in perspective - but lets keep it real.

Steffo · 10-10-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

What about how unreliable the DSG gearboxes are? And the huge amount of problems Golf drivers have with them and the cars in general? An R32 or S3 will not even come close to an EVO 9 in a straight line or on a track, and if you think 0.1 second and 1MPH means anything on the street you're dumber than I thought. A car length is not a big distance when you consider it's at the end of a 400m race... I doubt you've ever driven an EVO, because if you had you wouldn't be comparing it to a Golf. My JDM EVO will do 0-100km/h in 4.5s - how long does a Golf R32 take? 6.5? This is redundant now because you obviously hate EVOs and STi's or you have no respect for them or both. Your loss I spose.

First of all, cut the irrelevant "JDM," talk. We live in Australia, not Japan. What goes on in Japan is nore relevant to us.

Second of all, the R32 with DSG is in the low 5's 0-100km/h, just like an Australian Evo9.

Another piece of advice, Mr. 23 posts, try to keep insults out of your posts or you won't last very long.

One tenth is over a car length, and that is a significant loss. Both at the strip and on the street. Its a distinct enough loss on the street for every party involved to get the message on who's faster and who's slower.

You're not wrong, I hate Evo's and STi's with a passion. You are wrong that I don't have respect for them. You're right that I've never driven an Evo.

Please do inform me about the so called unreliability of the DSG gearbox? I'd love to hear about it? Everything I've seen in real life indicates otherwise.

Also, your comment about "if you had you wouldn't be comparing it to a Golf," is hilarious. The Evo is a tarted up Lancer. The R32 is a tarted up Golf. Guess what, the Golf is a far superior car to the Lancer to begin with, pre-tarting up. What about the Lancer would make me think its superior to the Golf? The flimsy build perhaps? Perhaps the smaller, lighter engine that uses more fuel and has dirtier exhaust emissions? Yeah, I dunno, maybe all the Lancer's cheapness would be very impressive, hey?

I haven't driven an Evo, but I've been in one (an Evo8). Yep, fast car. Horribly cheap and flimsy too. Worth 60,000 hard-earned? Not a chance.

Deadman · 10-10-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Second of all, the R32 with DSG is in the low 5's 0-100km/h, just like an Australian Evo9.

Unmodified?

Timeslip please... I can believe low 6's - not low 5's.

[edit]:

taken from the volkswagen website (and I'm sure they wouldn't undersell their cars, esspecially by a whole second. As I thought, low 6's):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkswagen Website

The Golf R32 is a true sprinter. Coupled with a slick 6-speed manual transmission, the V6 engine takes the R32 from 0-100 km/h in a stunning 6.5 seconds. The R32 can also be equipped with the optional 6-speed Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG), which allows super-swift gear changes achieving 0-100km/h in just 6.2 seconds.

Steffo · 10-10-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadman

And yet you mention:

There is no way that an R32 is "as fast in every way" compared to either an STi or Evo - esspecially if you say that a tenth is a "very large and noticable difference" - if that's the case you might as well say that the R32 wouldn't even be able to see an Evo after 400m because you'd be looking at over half a second difference ;)

It's all good trying to put things in perspective - but lets keep it real.

Mid-low 13's for both cars is not 'over half a second of difference.' Now if we weren't talking about a DSG R32... there would be a good half second difference between it and an Evo.

Deadman · 10-10-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Mid-low 13's for both cars is not 'over half a second of difference.' Now if we weren't talking about a DSG R32... there would be a good half second difference between it and an Evo.

? I thought you said the DSG was the one capabale of low 5's (which is rubish anyway - as shown in above post) - now you're saying that the DSG is the slow one? Hrmm.

Even the DSG model would be (very) lucky to break in to the 13's - it would be roughly half a second slower than the Evo to 400m, and the manual would be closer to a second slower.

Disciple · 10-10-2007, 06:00 PM

Well ok then.

:

Where do you get the figures of a DSG equipped R32 Golf doing 0-100km/h in low 5's man? I've read up a few reviews and they all say 6.2 for DSG and 6.5 for manual. 1MPH on the street on a rolling start would not even be noticeable mate. If you raced someone from a roll and your car traps 102MPH and you mates' car traps 103MPH, gun it from 2nd gear (assuming gear ratios are similar) there will be no difference until maybe 160kmh.

The DSG gearbox came from a friend of mine who had a 2005 Golf R32 and had the gearbox blow up 3 times before VW fixed it properly. Yes, and EVO is a tarted up Lancer, in the same way a Lamboghini Gallardo is a tarted up Audi RS4. There are so few parts shared - compeltely different chassis for EVO, different driveline, different diffs, different gearbox - some panels are the same and bits of the interior. If you wanna talk value for money mate and interiors - look at an F6 or GT-P - same interior as the pov pack Falcon taxi, but people don't care cause they go like stink.

A Golf R32 would be lucky to run a low 14 down the quarter - you think it's gonna run low 13's? :togo:

Steffo · 10-10-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadman

Unmodified?

Timeslip please... I can believe low 6's - not low 5's.

[edit]:

taken from the volkswagen website (and I'm sure they wouldn't undersell their cars, esspecially by a whole second. As I thought, low 6's):

Volkswagen understates all their cars. As does everyone involved with them... Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Porsche etc.

They claim, for example, 7.2 sec 0-100km/h for the Golf GTI 6sp manual, tested by EVO (UK) to 6.7 sec. That's 5 tenths faster then claimed. That's just one example in which I can remember the sources and figures without looking it up again.

The R32 and GTI are much faster then VW claims. Conservative claims. Rather then optimistic like HSV and most Jap car companies.