Alternative Fuels

[Mayhem_07]

I'm not much for conspiracy theories... but this makes logical sense.

Check out these links and have a look at the youtube vids.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell

http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_...trolizer_Plans/

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/


Before anyone says it's rubbish I know of 2 people, one professional mechanic in QLD (ran his car safely for 5 years) and one legal guru in VIC that built and ran their cars on a system that converted water to hydrogen as needed in the car. Neither person knows each other but they both built similar system from the ideas gained on those sites. Both cars were impounded by the supposed RTA in each state.

These cars did not use what is termed a hydroxy booster which runs petrol and hydrogen, only hydrogen.

The bloke in VIC being a legal guru in corporate law did some digging and found rumours that either legislation has been or is being written (by major petrol and car manufacturers) to make sure that:
a) hydrogen is not allowed to be produced in the car
b) must be produced in a secure location

This means, instead of filling up with tap water/grey water @ $0/L (close enough) or petrol at $8/L (as a 10 year prediction) we will probably be paying $2/L for hydrogen to put into tanks which will still looks cheap compared to petrol.

The reason I believe this is true, and this obviously isn't just me as it is fairly logical... is that they are doing this to protect a multi billion dollar industry and several hundreds of jobs. If it was a few hundred dollars I would believe it to be false, but obviously there's a lot of money to lose.

Personally I would rather have the option to run my car for free and make the fuel companies compete with free energy the same way Microsoft competes with Linux. Surely anything else should be seen as anti competitive behaviour.

If nothing else those sites make for some interesting reading.

[NIK516]

thanks for that site, and i agree with you there is corruption every where and you cant really stop it.

but oil will run out soon and we will have to adopt these new technology's

[troppo]

The sad fact is the free world simply isn't free, this is just another example.
An obvious one is voting. You are free to vote for any party you like, but not free to abstain if there aren't any you like.
Another one is banking. You are free to choose any financial institution you like, even free to not have an account. But, try getting paid without an account of some sort.
I could go on and on about the hypocrisy of going to war to "defend our freedom".

[Mayhem_07]

Originally Posted by NIK516

thanks for that site, and i agree with you there is corruption every where and you cant really stop it.

but oil will run out soon and we will have to adopt these new technology's

I don't see it as corruption as such as they believe they are protecting hundreds of jobs, which is a good thing. I just believe in fair competition and freedom of choice.
If for instance Ford released a hydrogen car that by default required bought hydrogen but cost $10000 to convert to free energy then they are able to compete fairly.

[HOEBAG]

The oil companies / government (same thing now days) wil control when we're allowed to stop using their products. end of story
Nothing will happen unless everyone stops right now and takes a stand.

[Mayhem_07]

Originally Posted by jim_reaper

The oil companies / government (same thing now days) wil control when we're allowed to stop using their products. end of story
Nothing will happen unless everyone stops right now and takes a stand.

You're right the government does through legislation. However, if enough people made enough noise about this newer technology before it's release then like the whole "Say Sorry" thing, they would have to give in to public pressure to keep them where they are, otherwise someone will start their own party and get voted in just simply by saying they'll change the laws governing production of hydrogen in the car.

[351capri]

while the oil companies and the us government control and manipulate the world economy there will be no revolution in alternate power. the technology is available (has been for decades) . those interested should watch the movie "who killed the electric car" or google " stan meyer" (no longer with us believed murdered ).

[xe351]

i wonder what sort of fine it would be for running a car on/with hydrogen?

[Mayhem_07]

Originally Posted by xe351

i wonder what sort of fine it would be for running a car on/with hydrogen?

I believe the bloke in QLD got a $3000 fine. Last I heard he decided to fight it in court to get his car back in one piece.
lol and everyone thought the US was screwing Australia over... I think the weak minded politicians here are doing a great job of that themselves.

[BT's GTP]

All empires finally fall because they forget how to adapt. Microsoft isn't adapting to the internet like yahoo is and i bet the fuel companies will try and hold on to what hey have but will fall for that same reason alone (imo)

[Mayhem_07]

Originally Posted by 351capri

while the oil companies and the us government control and manipulate the world economy there will be no revolution in alternate power. the technology is available (has been for decades) . those interested should watch the movie "who killed the electric car" or google " stan meyer" (no longer with us believed murdered ).

Revolutions happen in wierd places. I think the fuel companies and oil companies are driving us into a revolution. Doesn't mean the revolution has to begin in the US though.

[mik]

the rich and powerfull will always try to stay that way.......................its human nature. heres another hydrogen link this bloke has about 300 clips,
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zDFQkBtjmhQ&NR=1

[snappy]

Ive got an old ford courier i might give this a go on . At least try to improve economy.

I'm quite certain that the technology is available to run a car for near nothing ie electric,hyrdrogen or solar. But the powers of the world will not allow it. Just my opinion anyways.

[Mayhem_07]

Originally Posted by snappy84

Ive got an old ford courier i might give this a go on . At least try to improve economy.

I'm quite certain that the technology is available to run a car for near nothing ie electric,hyrdrogen or solar. But the powers of the world will not allow it. Just my opinion anyways.

I know of a several people doing different things. My advice would be read as much from those sites as possible. In particular find the D9.PDF file in there. It's a good method but I believe Meyers methods would work better.

[snappy]

i will do i think it might be a fun little project to try at the very least. i have no doubt from what iv'e read and heard it can be done . But if i can maybe the problem . The upside is i have nothing to lose .The ute's worth next to nothing anyways

[JMO]

I heard that the diesel engine was designed from the beginning to be run on chip oil, bio fuel etc but the oil companies muscled in with there 'superior' diesel fuel and made it the norm. As I said I don't know how true it is...

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by JMO

I heard that the diesel engine was designed from the beginning to be run on chip oil, bio fuel etc but the oil companies muscled in with there 'superior' diesel fuel and made it the norm. As I said I don't know how true it is...

Diesel is a by product of the petrol refining process. At the time it was extremely cheap and the oil companies couldn't give the stuff away. So it made perfect sense to use it in Diesel's (the russian bloke not the fuel)engines. Thats how "Diesel" (the fuel not the motor) got its name.

[JMO]

I stand corrected. The conspiracy story is much better though

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

So it made perfect sense to use it in Diesel's (the russian bloke not the fuel)engines. Thats how "Diesel" (the fuel not the motor) got its name.

Rudolf Diesel was born in France, but his parents were German.

[ebxr8240]

We should start another fuel supply and outlet using alternative fuel SEPERATE from petrol companies to create some opposition & competition.. But it will never happen. To get this started it needs gov money. They won't due to the fact they make heaps from tax's and excise off the petrol companies now...
I'd like to fill up at say ?? BOC, AGL where local made fuel can be sold separate from the wolves running it now...

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Rudolf Diesel was born in France, but his parents were German.

All this time I was walking around thinking the Russians did build something worthwhile.

[mik]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

We should start another fuel supply and outlet using alternative fuel SEPERATE from petrol companies to create some opposition & competition.. But it will never happen. To get this started it needs gov money. They won't due to the fact they make heaps from tax's and excise off the petrol companies now...
I'd like to fill up at say ?? BOC, AGL where local made fuel can be sold separate from the wolves running it now...

that is an exellent idea........or how about compressed natural gas, well have our own gas pump coming from the house meter, Australia has plenty of natural gas, bugger the overseas oil companies.
http://www.fuelmaker.com/Products/Na...esidential.htm

[cs123]

Originally Posted by troppo

The sad fact is the free world simply isn't free, this is just another example.
An obvious one is voting. You are free to vote for any party you like, but not free to abstain if there aren't any you like.

Yes there is. You have an obligation to show up and have your name crossed off the election roll. You don't have to cast a vote, just stuff an empty ballot paper in the box.

[dom_105]

I think it will be something that will come to a head sooner or later.

If we get 10 years down the track and fuel is at $5/L, what Government in their right mind will outlaw individuals being able to fill their cars at home with water, or with natural gas, or with air or whatever, forcing them to pay $2/L for some form of alternative fuel at some service station of the future.

It will be political suicide.

[ebxr8240]

They had CNG in New Zealand some time back.. It was very hard on exhaust valve as it run very hot.. But unleaded has been out now for years and cylinder heads are way better now.. It's only compressed so a bigger tank is needed compared to LPG..

All this talk about carbon tax etc?? Is the coal getting taxed that we export ??
I mean we burn it heaps here for electricity and export to a country that just doesn't care!! YET we still have to apparently pay a carbon tax ??
Ba! Run our cars on alcohol serves two purposes...

[Mayhem_07]

Originally Posted by dom_105

I think it will be something that will come to a head sooner or later.

If we get 10 years down the track and fuel is at $5/L, what Government in their right mind will outlaw individuals being able to fill their cars at home with water, or with natural gas, or with air or whatever, forcing them to pay $2/L for some form of alternative fuel at some service station of the future.

It will be political suicide.

Political suicide perhaps. But imagine how much money they will lose if a person has the right to produce their own fuel.

[vanman_75]

political suicide no ,thats what taxes are for if the country requires money to run they put taxes up, but high fuel prices will send us into a recession
everything to live goes up with price of fuel ,

[snakeoil]

Just a couple of points I would like to add

The first car to crack 100 mph was an electric car.The reason why still today electric cars have issues is the same as it was 100 years ago.

To recharge they have to use more fossil fuel power/energy than burning petroleum produces.It currently takes 18 times the amount of energy to make a toyota prius or similar versus a standard car.

When some clever bugger can devise a way to store AC then cars can run for free.

Ethanol has similar problems it uses vast amounts of land tract and produces very little energy per hectare versus feeding people

but fear not Oz has (second only to Canada) vast amounts of LNG untapped

[dishpig]

If you had a Hydrogen car and didn't road register it could the government fine you? I'd like to think not cause it wouldn't be a bad idea to make one and take it to car shows,days out or whatever and show people it was possible but not drive it on the roads obviously. If you were to get a massive amount of people talking about it, it's bound to get noticed eventually.

[Mayhem_07]

There is a reason why hydrogen is the only practical replacement for petrol, and that is because of the amount of existing petrol cars on the road. Electric conversions done properly are expensive, a hydrogen conversion would be about 1/16th of the price of the electric conversion.

Hyrdrogen, generate as you drive is possible, stores no hydrogen which makes it safer than carrying 65L of petrol and is inexpensive to make.

I guess the easiest thing to remember is... if we rely on someone else to make it then it's going to cost a fortune, either by the fuel companies getting greedy, the farmers getting greedy, or oil companies being greedy.