Toyota expects operating loss

[whynot]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/...s/22toyota.php


TOKYO: Toyota Motor will lose money in its core auto-making business for the first time in 70 years this fiscal year, the company said Monday, in a sign of how the global economic crisis is hurting even the mightiest carmakers.

The Japanese auto giant, which has been neck and neck with General Motors to be the world's largest vehicle-maker, said it still expected to eke out a narrow group net profit for the year, which ends March 31, 2009.

But the company, which just a few months ago appeared to be riding above the ills that have crippled the big U.S. automakers in Detroit, said it had seen plunging sales not only in North America but even in emerging markets, which initially seemed to be immune to the United States malaise.

"The change in the world economy is of a magnitude that comes once every hundred years," Toyota's president, Katsuaki Watanabe, told a press conference in Nagoya, Japan, near the company's Toyota City headquarters.

Sales last month dropped "far faster, wider and deeper than expected."

Toyota expects operating loss Ireland to invest €5.5 billion in 3 major banksGerman economy expected to contract 2.7% in 2009With some $18.5 billion in cash, and relatively little debt, Toyota is still in far better shape to weather the downturn than G.M. and Chrysler, which on Friday received a $17.4 billion emergency bailout from Washington.

Still, Toyota's downward revision, its second in two months, underscores how the worst financial crisis since the Depression has damaged foreign as well as domestic American carmakers. It is also a stunning setback for Toyota, which until recently had seemed unstoppable with eight straight years of record profits.

"They've caught the same cold that Detroit has caught, though not as bad" said Christopher Richter, senior analyst in Tokyo at Calyon Capital Markets Asia, an investment bank in the Crédit Agricole group. "Everything is going wrong for Toyota this year."

Indeed, the crisis has not spared Japan's automakers. The current financial turmoil has pushed up the value of the Japanese yen by about 25 percent since the summer, making Japanese products more expensive overseas.

They have also suffered from the recent steep declines in U.S. auto sales. In November, Toyota saw its sales drop 33.9 percent and Honda Motor 31.6 percent, faring just slightly better than G.M.'s 41 percent decline.

Most of Japan's eight automakers have lowered their earnings forecasts, cut production and laid off non-staff workers. Last week, Honda, the nation's second-largest carmaker, slashed its profit forecast for the current fiscal year by two-thirds.

Toyota has been seen as the most vulnerable of Japan's big automakers because it had been investing heavily in new products, including a full-sized pickup truck for the U.S. market, just when auto sales started to fall.

On Monday, Toyota said it expected a loss this fiscal year of ¥150 billion, or $1.7 billion, in its group operating revenue, the amount it earns from its mainstay auto operations. That would be a huge reversal from the ¥2.3 trillion, or $28 billion, in operating profit it reported last fiscal year.

Despite the loss in its car business, the company said it still expects to post a group net profit in same period of ¥50 billion, or $560 million.

[MethodX]

There is a god !

preeks.

[uranium_death]

I would prefer to be in Toyota's shoes than GM, Chrysler or Ford.

Just a sign of the times.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I would prefer to be in Toyota's shoes than GM, Chrysler or Ford.

Just a sign of the times.

You are right.

But do get sick of them being thought of at gods right hand.

[JerseyVics]

What's that saying: "the higher you climb the harder you fall?"

[ebxr8240]

1.7 billion loss in U.S...

[mr smith]

If these guys cant make a profit then it just shows how bad the market is.

[ebxr8240]

There is NO "quick" money to buy cars or anything these days!!
Sheesh the CEO's will get a bigger pay now ???

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by whynot

TOKYO: Toyota Motor will lose money in its core auto-making business for the first time in 70 years this fiscal year, the company said Monday, in a sign of how the global economic crisis is hurting even the mightiest carmakers.

Big deal.

The massive profits they’ve been making for the last 69 years should offset this. Toyota could still afford to pay cash for GM, Ford and Chrysler and have change left over.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Sheesh the CEO's will get a bigger pay now ???

Being Toyota don't be suprised if the CEO "Hari Kiri's" himself.

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Being Toyota don't be suprised if the CEO "Hari Kiri's" himself.

Just because they're Toyota doesn't mean they're immune to the current financial situation.

[vztrt]

Actually the Toyota CEO is getting replaced it seems

http://news.theage.com.au/world/toyo...1223-7465.html

Originally Posted by the age

Toyota to replace president amid business slump
December 23, 2008 - 4:42PM

Toyota Motor Corp. plans to replace its president after the Japanese carmaker forecast its first-ever operating loss, a report said Tuesday.

The auto giant is considering moving vice president Akio Toyoda to the post, which is held by Katsuaki Watanabe, in April at the start of the next business year, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported.

Arrangements have been made to give Watanabe a more advisory role of vice chairman, the daily said without citing sources.

No official was immediately available at Toyota's head office to comment on the report.

Toyoda, 52, a grandson of Toyota's founder Kiichiro Toyoda, would be the first member of the family in 14 years to become the company's president. Tatsuro Toyoda was the last president from the founder's clan.

On Monday, Toyota said it expected an operating loss of 150 billion yen (1.69 billion US dollars) for the financial year to March 2009, the first loss since it started reporting annual earnings in March 1941.

Last year it posted 2.27 trillion yen in operating profit.

Toyota said it still expected to make a profit on a net level but cut its forecast sharply to 50 billion yen, down from a previous estimate of 550 billion yen.

Toyota's sharp cuts in forecasts marked a deepening of the woes plaguing the auto industry, which has seen General Motors and Chrysler, two of the US Big Three automakers, on the verge of collapse due to the global financial turmoil.

Toyota, which vies with GM for the crown of the world's largest automaker, said it was cutting back production and investment as a slump in sales and a soaring yen wreak havoc on its balance sheet.

[XR6_190]

Why my the mighty have stumbled, would this be the stumble before the fall?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Why my the mighty have stumbled, would this be the stumble before the fall?

Most likely just stumbling over the big 3 in the US, when you have a head that cant fit through door you dont see things that well on the floor.

[vztrt]

Toyota struggling is not helping Denso

http://news.theage.com.au/business/j...1224-74q9.html

Originally Posted by theage

Japan's Denso slashes profit forecast
December 24, 2008 - 12:46PM

Japan's leading car parts maker Denso Corp said on Wednesday its full-year net profit would be a 10th of an earlier forecast due to the poor performance of the auto industry and a strong yen.

Denso, a major supplier to Toyota Motor Corp, now estimates its group net profit at 10 billion yen ($A161.36 million) for the year to March 2009, down from 101 billion yen ($A1.63 billion) it projected less than two months ago.

The financial crisis triggered in the United States had affected the whole world, noted Sadahiro Usui, managing officer of Denso.

"The business environment in the automotive industry is also drastically declining due to decreasing exports and the appreciated yen in Japan, in addition to slumping consumer spending worldwide," he said in a statement.

Denso also downgraded its sales projection to 3.3 trillion yen ($A53.25 billion) from 3.65 trillion yen ($A58.89 billion) estimated on October 30.

Its operating-profit forecast was lowered to 38 billion yen ($A613.15 million) from Y78 billion yen ($A2.87 billion).

A strong yen makes Japanese exports less competitive and reduces earnings for exporters when their income is repatriated.

The Japanese currency has advanced sharply amid the financial crisis, trading at around 90 yen to the US dollar recently compared with above 110 yen a year earlier.

Toyota on Monday forecast its first operating loss for the full year to March as its president said the global slowdown had created "an unprecedented crisis" for the long profitable automaker.

[ebxr8240]

$13b world wide ...I assume U.S $$...

[Rob's 76 Effy]

I'm sure i heard that Toyota in Aust was still profitable and there due to do some exporting next year

[vztrt]

They have been exporting for a while.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

I'm sure i heard that Toyota in Aust was still profitable and there due to do some exporting next year

My mate who works for Toyota told me that they are losing about $2000 a car on exports to the Middle East due to the drop in the aussie dollar, and exports make up about 60% of their business, so you do the maths.

[phoon]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

My mate who works for Toyota told me that they are losing about $2000 a car on exports to the Middle East due to the drop in the aussie dollar, and exports make up about 60% of their business, so you do the maths.

Bossxr8, that makes no sense to me at all. Lower AUD makes exporters more competitive and importing more expensive considering the majority of the world trades in USD. Even if they were losing $2k per car, basic business sense would tell you to do one of two things or both, reduce operating costs and / or put through price increases.

Case Study:
Paddy and Mick were buying and selling oranges off the back of a truck. They were buying them for $1.20 per kg and selling them for $1 per kg. Paddy said to Mick, "were not making any money" Mick said "I know, we'll have to get a bigger truck"

Point is, I cant believe that toyota would be running a business like Paddy and Mick.

Cheers

Jeff

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by phoon

Bossxr8, that makes no sense to me at all. Lower AUD makes exporters more competitive and importing more expensive considering the majority of the world trades in USD. Even if they were losing $2k per car, basic business sense would tell you to do one of two things or both, reduce operating costs and / or put through price increases.

Case Study:
Paddy and Mick were buying and selling oranges off the back of a truck. They were buying them for $1.20 per kg and selling them for $1 per kg. Paddy said to Mick, "were not making any money" Mick said "I know, we'll have to get a bigger truck"

Point is, I cant believe that toyota would be running a business like Paddy and Mick.

Cheers

Jeff

Yep your right, I spoke to him a few months ago when the aussie dollar was up past 90c, so I got that mixed up. Now that the aussie dollar has dropped they are probably back to making a profit, but they would have lost a lot of money when it was high.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Now that the aussie dollar has dropped they are probably back to making a profit, but they would have lost a lot of money when it was high.

Hmmmmm, did they lose money, or did they just not make as much of a profit as they expected? There’s a bit of a difference. In my opinion, car makers are a little bit like farmers. They will never tell you how much they make when times are good, but as soon as there’s any type of downturn, they are full of information. We are losing $$$$$$$ every day, boo hoo, everybody feel sorry for us. Well **** them.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Hmmmmm, did they lose money, or did they just not make as much of a profit as they expected? There’s a bit of a difference. In my opinion, car makers are a little bit like farmers. They will never tell you how much they make when times are good, but as soon as there’s any type of downturn, they are full of information. We are losing $$$$$$$ every day, boo hoo, everybody feel sorry for us. Well **** them.

Yes they were losing $2000 on every Camry they exported when the dollar was above 90 cents. I don't know for how long it was they were losing money for, or what the breakeven point is in terms of the exchange rate, but it would have been a few months at least.

[phoon]

Lose money on the car sales for a short period, but hike up the genuine spare part costs, thats how they stay in profit in bad times. I used to work for an ill fated parts manufacturer in the 80's. We supplied Ford, Holden, Toyota, Mazda and Mitsubishi. OEM parts we manufactured were of the highest quality standards and the parts that would be rejected for OEM went to spare parts. The price hike for these was an average of 250% higher than the best quality parts that went on new cars. Or for example, some of the deals were like this with car manufacturers, make door handles for the magnas for a loss of $10 per handle and mark up the wheel covers for spare parts by $250% which recovered your loss on handles and gave a healthy profit at the same time on wheel covers. This made sense as a supplier as it helped the car manufacturers keep the new car prices down and not many door handles were sold as spares (minimizing losses on these items) and make your money on the wheel covers as spares because these used to sell by the thousands as spares (seems there are allot of people that cant park without scraping the gutters. Good for us, good for the car companies, bad for consumers that needed spare parts.

[ross96mac]

Keep it in perspective people, if Toyota ( #1 worldwide ) are bleeding dollars, what are # 2, 3, 4...etc.. doing? In the end it will only mean that ALL of them will start building cars that they can afford to and not the cars that we want to buy. How long till all Fords are front wheel drive 1.5 ltr. ethanol burners? Dearborn will not bankroll a rear wheel drive IL6 or V8 for Australia when the U.S. Government, acting as a major "shadow" shareholder, starts to demand a return on their generous handouts. Yeh, I know many out there frown on the rice-burners, but take a long hard look at what Nissan have done with the new GT-R, if you don't keep raising the bar you will fall under it
Ross

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by ross96mac

Keep it in perspective people, if Toyota ( #1 worldwide ) are bleeding dollars, what are # 2, 3, 4...etc.. doing? In the end it will only mean that ALL of them will start building cars that they can afford to and not the cars that we want to buy. How long till all Fords are front wheel drive 1.5 ltr. ethanol burners? Dearborn will not bankroll a rear wheel drive IL6 or V8 for Australia when the U.S. Government, acting as a major "shadow" shareholder, starts to demand a return on their generous handouts. Yeh, I know many out there frown on the rice-burners, but take a long hard look at what Nissan have done with the new GT-R, if you don't keep raising the bar you will fall under it
Ross

Good post, ross. I'd like to remind you though that Ford has not taken any Government money and do not fall under the requirements imposed on GM and Chrysler. Also, Ford plans to not access the money. By doing so it puts Ford in a much better light with the customers as well as a certain competitive advantage; Ford will be able to continue executing their turn around plan that they began several years ago and saw the fruits of in the first quarter of this year.


The financial crisis triggered in the United States had affected the whole world, noted Sadahiro Usui, managing officer of Denso.



Since other countries want to point to the collapse of the US economy as causing the whole global economy to crash, I would like to say I am good with that. The other side of the coin then, naturally, would be to recognize that collapsing the US economy was the goal of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York. If the terrorists had been successful in destroying the US economy then to the level it went to this year then the affect would have been the same....a global economic crash. As such, I hope the rest of the entire world that would be affected by the economic crash in the US would be willing to join us in eliminating the terrorists that have such desires since their goal would affect everyone in the same manner.

And thank you to Australia for already having assisted in this endeavor.



Sorry to get political, but when I see where someone wants to point to the US as the cause of what is happening global, and what has happened in the US this year was and is the goal of the terrorists on 9/11, I would like to take advantage of that moment and point out how the whole world is connected when it comes to terrorism from extremists. Mods, please feel free to delete any portion of this post you deem inappropriate.


Steve

[gravelrash]

wow first loss in 70 years. GM and Ford would have had 70 losses in that time.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Good post, ross. I'd like to remind you though that Ford has not taken any Government money and do not fall under the requirements imposed on GM and Chrysler. Also, Ford plans to not access the money. By doing so it puts Ford in a much better light with the customers as well as a certain competitive advantage; Ford will be able to continue executing their turn around plan that they began several years ago and saw the fruits of in the first quarter of this year.


The financial crisis triggered in the United States had affected the whole world, noted Sadahiro Usui, managing officer of Denso.



Since other countries want to point to the collapse of the US economy as causing the whole global economy to crash, I would like to say I am good with that. The other side of the coin then, naturally, would be to recognize that collapsing the US economy was the goal of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York. If the terrorists had been successful in destroying the US economy then to the level it went to this year then the affect would have been the same....a global economic crash. As such, I hope the rest of the entire world that would be affected by the economic crash in the US would be willing to join us in eliminating the terrorists that have such desires since their goal would affect everyone in the same manner.

And thank you to Australia for already having assisted in this endeavor.



Sorry to get political, but when I see where someone wants to point to the US as the cause of what is happening global, and what has happened in the US this year was and is the goal of the terrorists on 9/11, I would like to take advantage of that moment and point out how the whole world is connected when it comes to terrorism from extremists. Mods, please feel free to delete any portion of this post you deem inappropriate.


Steve

Hi Steve,
The way that most people see things over here is a bit different. We see the US collapse as having been caused mainly by greed - not terrorism. Handing out loans to people & corporations who couldn't afford the repayments was always going to end poorly. Parceling up these mortgages & selling them to domestic & overseas investment houses so that we could all "share the joy". CEO's and there underlings falsifying documents and financial accounts so that they could continue to trade & receive bonuses etc. Is there any asset of tangible worth in the USA - or is the whole country built on a litany of lies & deceipt ????
So blaming it all on terrorists is a bit of a cop out in my opinion. Your country, by its financial practices & greed, is now responsible for the meltdown everyone is suffering from & its probably going to get worse this year. In the meantime a lot of innocent people will do it tough, lose their homes, their retirement investments etc etc. These are the people I feel sorry for......

[phoon]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Hi Steve,
The way that most people see things over here is a bit different. We see the US collapse as having been caused mainly by greed - not terrorism. Handing out loans to people & corporations who couldn't afford the repayments was always going to end poorly. Parceling up these mortgages & selling them to domestic & overseas investment houses so that we could all "share the joy". CEO's and there underlings falsifying documents and financial accounts so that they could continue to trade & receive bonuses etc. Is there any asset of tangible worth in the USA - or is the whole country built on a litany of lies & deceipt ????
So blaming it all on terrorists is a bit of a cop out in my opinion. Your country, by its financial practices & greed, is now responsible for the meltdown everyone is suffering from & its probably going to get worse this year. In the meantime a lot of innocent people will do it tough, lose their homes, their retirement investments etc etc. These are the people I feel sorry for......

I agree with you that greed by US corporate fat cats was the cause of the global collapse, but I think the point Ohio was making is correct that the aim of 9/11 was to have the same result. The unfortunate part is that the perpertrators of this disgusting act were allowed escape and instead the US government invaded Iraq ( a supposed easy target that hasnt turned into an easy target). Anyway, we also should remember that we are not doing it so tough here in Aus as a whole. The people of the USA are doing it tough along with the most of the rest of the world. It's not the average American that caused this, its the corporate fat cats and the government that would have seen this coming and did nothing in the name of capitalism. Dont the Govt understand that even that needs some restrictions for it to work. It also shows how far and reaching the health of the US economy is when a company like Toyota, who are without question one of the leanest manufacturers in the world can operate at a loss. I heard an expression that rings true, when the US economy sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. Regardless of what we or anyone thinks, the world requires that the US has a healthy economy.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by phoon

I agree with you that greed by US corporate fat cats was the cause of the global collapse, but I think the point Ohio was making is correct that the aim of 9/11 was to have the same result. The unfortunate part is that the perpertrators of this disgusting act were allowed escape and instead the US government invaded Iraq ( a supposed easy target that hasnt turned into an easy target). Anyway, we also should remember that we are not doing it so tough here in Aus as a whole. The people of the USA are doing it tough along with the most of the rest of the world. It's not the average American that caused this, its the corporate fat cats and the government that would have seen this coming and did nothing in the name of capitalism. Dont the Govt understand that even that needs some restrictions for it to work. It also shows how far and reaching the health of the US economy is when a company like Toyota, who are without question one of the leanest manufacturers in the world can operate at a loss. I heard an expression that rings true, when the US economy sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. Regardless of what we or anyone thinks, the world requires that the US has a healthy economy.

That's only because the USD has been the dominant currency that the rest of the world trades with...now that the good ol' greenback has lost 95% of it's real value since 1914, there isn't much left of it, so the FR (Federal Reserve, which by the way was NEVER federal and has NO reserves) prints more money and hands it out to the super-rich while the economy goes to crap.

At this stage, it's not about saving the economy, (we're about 10 years too late for that)...right now, the goal is to suck whatever's left and give to the billionaires because their money is also buying less!

Google "The Amero" and read up on it, their goal is to have the US, Canada and Mexico merge into the North American Union and this will be their new currency.

Sorry if it's a bit off topic.