Nice to see Ford marketing finally put the boot in!

XWGT · 19-10-2009, 11:23 AM

Lovely to see in todays Herald Sun a full page ad that quotes drive.com.au's findings on the GM 3 litre fuel economy, including the quote in large tye "Theres no way to sugar coat it. The Commodore was thirstier"

Then goes on to quote the Commodore used 19% more fuel than its official claim and 10 % more than Falcon"

Now thats the sort of marketing I like to see!

R-Design · 19-10-2009, 11:40 AM

Ford would want to be confident that these results will be repeated in the Global Green Challenge this month, or it'll be a very short lived victory.

Of course, if it does then they can really start crowing. The most important change in Commodore's history, still not enough to match Falcon!

Swordsman88 · 19-10-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Ford would want to be confident that these results will be repeated in the Global Green Challenge this month, or it'll be a very short lived victory.

Of course, if it does then they can really start crowing. The most important change in Commodore's history, still not enough to match Falcon!

I am not 100% sure (is there a website for this challenge??) but the Falcon and Commodores in that test are a XR6T and a Omega 3.0SIDI sportswagon (oh and a HSV V8 (maloo i think?), too). The 3.0 SIDI is obviously there to support its bid (whcih given the highway percentage it might atcually go alright) but the XR6T and HSV are trying for the other award...the biggest improvement over the ADR number. Because both cars are high in ADR numbers (relatively speaking) if they beat their rated numbers by the biggest % then apparently that is worth something.... For example the XR6T ADR is 11.7 i think, but it does 8.8 highway cycle so if they get it into the 8s then that is a sizeable gain.

The Fiesta Econetic is Ford's attempt at the press release winner....3.7 L/100km from its 1.6L diesel with a highway rating of 3.2....

**Silver Ghia** · 19-10-2009, 12:39 PM

Here is the link to the AFF thread that covered that comparison: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11275931

And the Drive article : http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Mi...MiniSiteID=242

deesun · 19-10-2009, 12:45 PM

I saw this today in the Daily Telegraph this morning. I agree its about time Fords marketing dept started hitting Holdens where it hurts. The comparo talked of in the add has been discussed here on the forums. http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11275931.

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I hope this is the end of the mamby pamby marketing by FoMoCo.
Fancy dancing fingers, PFFFFFTTT. :togo:

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Mr Hardware · 19-10-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

I agree its about time Fords marketing dept started hitting Holdens where it hurts.
I hope this is the end of the mamby pamby marketing by FoMoCo.

Too right mate. As much as i am a closet holden lover, the simple fact of the matter is ford doesn't give themselves a level playing field. They have to retalliate far more than they do.

deesun · 19-10-2009, 01:01 PM

Even if it isn't retaliation they have to get agressive rather than the softly softly approach. Every second edition of a motoring mag has a pic of a new hot v8 Holden of which they say will sell 500 of and they will be lucky to sell 50 before it's canned. Subsequently in the next edition there is some other hot Holden etc etc etc. In between there are the factory cars with some new fancy SIDI bull dust motor that doesn't live up to all the hype except in the eyes of the Red lovers who have been brainwashed into thinking this new model is the greatest since radial tuned suspension. Sorry was that a rant? If so then

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LTDHO · 19-10-2009, 01:04 PM

Worse way to say you are good is to put another down... Lame.

R-Design · 19-10-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

I am not 100% sure (is there a website for this challenge??) but the Falcon and Commodores in that test are a XR6T and a Omega 3.0SIDI sportswagon (oh and a HSV V8 (maloo i think?), too).

Think you got me there. The initial report on the challenge stated that Ford would be running an XR6, but on the official site it's a XR6T. Very disappointing, it would have been good to see how the 4.0 I6 compared to the 3.0 V6 SIDI in an independent test. If anything it's omission as an admission that the 3.0 would have outperformed it. In that case, today’s ad is opportunistic at best.

The thread on the Green Challenge:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...reen+challenge

Entrants of the Eco Challenge on the official site:

http://www.globalgreenchallenge.com....nts/index.html

Mr Hardware · 19-10-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Very disappointing, it would have been good to see how the 4.0 I6 compared to the 3.0 V6 SIDI in an independent test.

Wheels did this last month. Except whilst they had a six-speed holden, they used a 5-speed falcon. BOO.

4Vman · 19-10-2009, 01:24 PM

Im not a huge fan of predatory marketing, i prefer to see companies lead by highlighting the strengths of their products rather than "prey" on the weaknesses of their competition, but judging by allot of responses i see around here im beginning to think consumers are stupider than i thought and they believe everything they read and see on TV and in magazines...

R-Design · 19-10-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Wheels did this last month. Except whilst they had a six-speed holden, they used a 5-speed falcon. BOO.

I've already had my rant on the automotive press (see below), I just want to see some independent numbers without some BS interpretation attached. In my experience ADR's are usually wishfull thinking...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ght=ford+media

deesun · 19-10-2009, 01:38 PM

^^^^ Holden buyers do. I understand what you are saying Norm but Holden stretch the truth in a number of adds specifically lately with the SIDI Sydney to Melbourne V Mondeo. You have to read the fine print. I think this add will have more cred with the masses cos they can read it somewhere else rather than a Ford brochure or website.

**Polyal** · 19-10-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not a huge fan of predatory marketing, i prefer to see companies lead by highlighting the strengths of their products rather than "prey" on the weaknesses of their competition, but judging by allot of responses i see around here im beginning to think consumers are stupider than i thought and they believe everything they read and see on TV and in magazines...

Its not the ideal strategy but Ford has been very restrained with their efforts for a long time. They finally do something and people complain? Come on.

"Preying" is a pretty loaded term to use, simply stating some facts from a back to back test.

And you should know that the general consumer hardly ever sits down and compares products concisely. Holdens sales are attribute to that, the Cruze is a prime example among many.

XWGT · 19-10-2009, 01:39 PM

While I'm not a fan of predatory marketing either I think this ad was a very good strageic strike in that it

1) Publically exposes and educates the public on the difference between claimed figures and real world figures
2) Put that particular manufacturer on notice that their claims to the market will be tested, as there have been some claims recently that simply have not stood the test of scrutiny, such as teh AFM debarcle.

Worth the effort in my opinion

Deco28 · 19-10-2009, 01:41 PM

Maybe you should check out Carsales 3.0SIDI review. It pulled a 10.1 with mainly city driving.

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ega-sidi-17086

Also MOTOR mag in which the 3.6l SIDI was faster and more frugal.

The drive test only went to the falcon because of torque. If the SV6 was in it, it would have won. This test wasn't a true indication of the style of drivin at which the 3.0SIDI is aimed.

irlewy86 · 19-10-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deco28

Maybe you should check out Carsales 3.0SIDI review. It pulled a 10.1 with mainly city driving.

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ega-sidi-17086

Also MOTOR mag in which the 3.6l SIDI was faster and more frugal.

The drive test only went to the falcon because of torque. If the SV6 was in it, it would have won. This test wasn't a true indication of the style of drivin at which the 3.0SIDI is aimed.

3.6 still has abysmal torque curve. If it even knows what a torque curve is.

Swordsman88 · 19-10-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not a huge fan of predatory marketing, i prefer to see companies lead by highlighting the strengths of their products rather than "prey" on the weaknesses of their competition, but judging by allot of responses i see around here im beginning to think consumers are stupider than i thought and they believe everything they read and see on TV and in magazines...

In general i would agree. Fact is that it can backfire on you quite easilly.... BUT, i think that if it is done in a measured way this might be the only option ford has left. Reasons?

1. In the last few years (despite constant complaints by everyone) Ford has tried a range of marketing angles...it hasn't been working. The humorous approach, the subtle 'rise above the field' method (walking fingers...) the straight forward 'push ads' (29,990 drive away etc.) and even used well known sports people (cricketers mostly). There aint' much left.

2. "highlightig your strenghts over competitors...' ah isn't that the same thing as showing up your opponents weaknesses. Its hard to say 'falcon burns less' without saying 'holden burns more no?

3. Everyone does it now. Mazda are quoting journos on their ads, even attacking mondeo/accord. They don't have to do it but they are. Its becoming more and more like the americans.

4. Holden as much as Ford have causes this situation. Alot of the hype surronding their SIDI engines was due to very questionable claims in advertisments and deliberate spin doctoring (wiht media support) by their management. We will 'out engineer' everyone....yeah right....

5. Yes, people really are that stupid. They believe the claims manufacturers make and pretty much don't bother doing their own leg work to verify any of it. I'm convinced 95% of the people who watch those SIDI ads wouldn't know what the ADR fuel consumption test even is, let alone how their current car even performs in it.

As i've said before, i don't think its the best way to go about it. I also don't think Ford will necessarily make a massive habit out of it. But if it is done with at least some basis of fact then stuff it. Holden have had it too good for far too long. Time someone called them on their spin and called a spade a spade.

GK · 19-10-2009, 01:52 PM

The ad (sitting before me right now) is good on four counts.

1. It's stating the truth and contrary to what others have said, I think showing the other products weakness in relation to your strength, is a good thing.
2. It's sending the message to the holden egg-heads that holden's marketing "truths" are anything but.
3. It appeals to Ford's current Who's Most Likely campaign.
4. It's not marketing hype, but quotes the Drive.com.au test.

Clever!

GK

Swordsman88 · 19-10-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deco28

Maybe you should check out Carsales 3.0SIDI review. It pulled a 10.1 with mainly city driving.

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ega-sidi-17086

Also MOTOR mag in which the 3.6l SIDI was faster and more frugal.

The drive test only went to the falcon because of torque. If the SV6 was in it, it would have won. This test wasn't a true indication of the style of drivin at which the 3.0SIDI is aimed.

Yes but who is to say a Falcon wouldn't have done just as well?? This is the point some people are making. If you get into this tit for tat war then it becomes virtually impossible for informed viewers (let alone the average punter) to work out which is actually better.

Its also worth pointing out that the car started that carsales test with an average of 13.2 - so unless it was just used for performance testing at lang lang most likely that was the running average number when driven from Holden at port melbourne to the journo. Which would be a city number. So who's to say it is all that good in the city anyway???

I think we are all missing one other issue here. Its all well and good to see Holden and Ford slugging it out in the fuel economy stakes but the fact is that the Falcon is a damn sight faster. Over 1 second to 100km/h (which believe me is noticeable). This Ford ad notes in the fine print that the drive test found the ford nicer to drive, nicer interior and better overall. That is worth a hell of alot more to me than $5 bucks a week at the fuel bowser....

NC5L · 19-10-2009, 01:59 PM

The commodore only just won the motor and carsales tests by the slightest of margins... Hardly impressive for the amount of apparent "technology" in the new commodore. All it has done is show holden for what they are, a marketing mastermind preying on the over-patriotic under-auto-educated australian. I dont like the preditory marketing either but in this case holden have got away with brain washing the austrailan public for too long.

Swordsman88 · 19-10-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Think you got me there. The initial report on the challenge stated that Ford would be running an XR6, but on the official site it's a XR6T. Very disappointing, it would have been good to see how the 4.0 I6 compared to the 3.0 V6 SIDI in an independent test. If anything it's omission as an admission that the 3.0 would have outperformed it. In that case, today’s ad is opportunistic at best.

The thread on the Green Challenge:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...reen+challenge

Entrants of the Eco Challenge on the official site:

http://www.globalgreenchallenge.com....nts/index.html

Yes i think alot of people would of liked to see that test done with a I6 NA of some kind just to see how it goes. And you maybe be right that Ford didn't put in the 4.0 because they were concerned that on the highway nature of the challenge they were on a hiding to nothign versus a 25% smaller engine.

BUT, i think manufacturers are doing this based on strategy. Toyota won't even turn up (hybrids are no good on the highway) and Holden are obviously trying to prove the SIDI worth. Ford are trying to win the big prizes. Lowest overall (fiesta econetic) and biggest improvement over ADR (4.0 I6T). And i tell ya given the numbers quoted on here for the I6T owners they just might do it.....

SVTVNM · 19-10-2009, 02:38 PM

Just opened the Herald Sun and came across the Ad, Personally I think it's short and straight to the point, and clearly states that the test was independant and performed around the Bathurst track, Well Done FORD. IMO

Fev · 19-10-2009, 02:42 PM

It's great to see they are finally "sticking it to them" in the advertising department.

FalconXR6 · 19-10-2009, 02:47 PM

Top advertisement.
Well done to Ford marketing.
Either I am easily pleased or this is very exciting.
Much needed IMO.
Many people's opinion of the Falcon is that it's a nice car but very very thirsty.
This should go some way towards letting the general public know otherwise !!!

Again, well done !!!

kircher · 19-10-2009, 03:13 PM

Predatory advertising is not the way to go. Most Holden buyers buy Holdens because they are Holdens. I know someone that Owned a Torana and liked it. They then traded it in for a VS commodore. That was then traded for an Astra, and a Barina. People believe Holden is the dinky-dy Aussie brand, ever since the FX. Just look at those ads with Hughesey "holden means a great deal to Australia", and the new ones about going better or whatever. The best Ford has is advertising a Territory as the family car. The last time I checked the Falcon has been Ford Australia's large family car since 1960. Then they advertise the upper spec models, and then put the G6ET in the background, with the XR6 in the front. The G6ET should be in the front. Why not take the Aussie approach like Holden? In reality it is more Aussie than Commodore anyway. Make it subtle "Australian designed and built 6 cylinder with class leading fuel economy, refinement and performance"

deesun · 19-10-2009, 03:17 PM

How about this " Go better? We already are".

Quicksand · 19-10-2009, 03:29 PM

Can someone pls scan the ad and post in here (if thats ok/legal etc)?

Jason[98.EL] · 19-10-2009, 04:02 PM

has been posted in this thread
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8&page=5&pp=30
post 147

Fev · 19-10-2009, 04:06 PM

I know it's not worth anything but are there details on how fast each cars lap was, which car actually came first out of 161 laps and tyre wear details??