Scruby Stikes Again

Fairlane · 31-10-2009, 10:08 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/drive/revealed...1030-hptp.html

Thought id post this one up and realise what a crackpot this guy is. If i saw him crossing the road id dont think I would stop.

And the journalist is an idiot too, thinks its an exclusive because she got a fax from Harold Scruby. Anyway for those not willing to read the article here are some highlights.

Quote:

PREVIOUSLY secret RTA figures dealing with camera-detected speeding offences appear to expose a policy of allowing a 10per cent tolerance before a penalty is applied. The data shows that not a single NSW motorist was penalised for being caught travelling at speeds of between 100km/h and 110km/h in a 100km/h zone during July and August. Harold Scruby, the head of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, says the figures reveal what many have long suspected – that the Roads and Traffic Authority allows a discretionary margin of 10 per cent in excess of the speed limit before a penalty is imposed. Mr Scruby wants to know who is setting the tolerance threshold: "Is it some unaccountable Sir Humphrey who is under the instruction of ministers to make sure the Government is popular?"

The RTA says it works with the police to set tolerance levels but the police Traffic Services Commander, John Hartley, told the Herald that "each organisation is responsible for the independent operation of their individual speed enforcement programs". The RTA has offered no explanation for the figures, which were released to Mr Scruby under freedom-of-information laws. Mr Scruby believes the margin has been inadvertently exposed by a shift since the end of June to 10km/h increments for lower-level speeding offences. A former Victorian assistant police commissioner, Ray Shuey, said "10 per cent has been sort of usual in many jurisdictions", although Victoria had moved to a lower threshold. He said 10 per cent was based on an outdated Australian Design rule which erroneously assumed a large drift in some car speedometers. Assistant Commissioner Hartley said the NSW Police Force did not discuss tolerance levels and "any motorist can be fined for exceeding the speed limit by 1km/h".

That final police officer was a bit off, "outdated Australian Design Rule" pretty sure its still in force mate, and well even minor changes in tyres can knock a speedo about.

Swordsman88 · 31-10-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

http://www.smh.com.au/drive/revealed...1030-hptp.html

Thought id post this one up and realise what a crackpot this guy is. If i saw him crossing the road id dont think I would stop.

I'd speed up....by a good 10%?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

That final police officer was a bit off, "outdated Australian Design Rule" pretty sure its still in force mate, and well even minor changes in tyres can knock a speedo about.

Not sure if it is enforce or not. I heard they were changing it but don't know if that was a 'in the future' or it has now been done. Either way fact is that you are not going to seriously measurably affect vehicular safety based on 10% anyway since the set speed is arbitrary and not dependent on every single combination of conditions, vehicles or drivers capabilities. These factors would adjust the recomended speed a crapload more than 10%. For one thing, if you added 10% to most highway speed limits but reduced urban limits 10% (not saying i'm in favour of it) you would most likely improve safety substantially....

Why bother discussing this issue when it doesn't take into the account the much bigger impact of driver behaviour, which is not properly policed at all like it was in the past.

EDManual · 31-10-2009, 10:34 AM

Whats he doing, mashing in VIC and NSW speeding offences into the same confusing article for victorian readers?

everyone knows nsw including cameras leave you 10% dont they?

VIC cameras dont, but real police do.

If you feel like pushing the limits when safe, a measly 10% that is, go for it. See what happens. Not much to lose.

deesun · 31-10-2009, 02:00 PM

I always thought cameras were 7kph variance. My wife got booked recently for under 10kph in a 50 zone.

Paxton · 31-10-2009, 02:01 PM

He's harping on about something that is common knowledge here in NSW.

This guy is a moron.

dole bludger · 31-10-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

I always thought cameras were 7kph variance. My wife got booked recently for under 10kph in a 50 zone.

i think its 10% not 10kph, so @ 50kph thats 5kph tolerance

gtnut · 31-10-2009, 04:15 PM

Pedestrian council of one.
This guy is a crackpot ive been involved in the 4wd scene for twenty years or so, this so called expert as been after 4wd,s and high powerd cars and high powerd motor bikes as long as i can remember at one point he wanted all 4wd,s parked up some where on the city limits and you would have to drive your bip bip car there, go for a drive in you 4wd for the day or week then park it back there and then drive home in your bip bip car.
I remember hearing on 2gb this year that some goverment ministers banned him from there offices and one of them refer to him harold screwball.
He is just his serial pest.

Paul Callaghan

prydey · 31-10-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

That final police officer was a bit off, "outdated Australian Design Rule" pretty sure its still in force mate, and well even minor changes in tyres can knock a speedo about.

you will find the police officer is 100% correct. the current ADR's specify that the speedo can't read slower than the actual road speed, and has to be within 10% if reading faster than the road speed.

as tyres wear, their overall diameter becomes smaller, causing the speedo to read faster than the roadspeed. when you change the car from how it left the factory, which includes changing tyres, the onus is on the owner to make sure it complies.

King Nothing · 31-10-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you will find the police officer is 100% correct. the current ADR's specify that the speedo can't read slower than the actual road speed, and has to be within 10% if reading faster than the road speed.

as tyres wear, their overall diameter becomes smaller, causing the speedo to read faster than the roadspeed. when you change the car from how it left the factory, which includes changing tyres, the onus is on the owner to make sure it complies.

Not quite technically true either. The current standard states that all cars can read up to 10% faster, but cannot read slower than the actual speed. However, this applies to cars built after IIRC 2005. So anything built pre 2005 falls under the old standard, which gives a 10% tolerance either way.

So, as the majority of cars on the road are pre-2005, it makes sense to give a 10% tolerance as these cars were built to this standard. It isn't fair to punish a motorist if their car performs within the standard it was built to.

geehaa · 31-10-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

I always thought cameras were 7kph variance. My wife got booked recently for under 10kph in a 50 zone.

Was she walking???

prydey · 01-11-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Not quite technically true either. The current standard states that all cars can read up to 10% faster, but cannot read slower than the actual speed. However, this applies to cars built after IIRC 2005. So anything built pre 2005 falls under the old standard, which gives a 10% tolerance either way.

So, as the majority of cars on the road are pre-2005, it makes sense to give a 10% tolerance as these cars were built to this standard. It isn't fair to punish a motorist if their car performs within the standard it was built to.

yes i agree and i was actually going to say something along those lines as well in my post but didn't. i was merely pointing out the policeman statement was in fact true regarding the current ADR.

**Mechan1k** · 01-11-2009, 07:44 AM

I am waiting for the head of the pedestrian council to be booked for Jay walking.
And I hope it makes it to the papers as well.

deesun · 01-11-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geehaa

Was she walking???

I gotta learn two right bedda sentensez.

Keepleft · 01-11-2009, 10:13 AM

You lot missed the more interesting?? discussion;-

http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-ne...1030-ho9e.html

Lukeyson · 01-11-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

You lot missed the more interesting?? discussion;-

http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-ne...1030-ho9e.html

I saw them talking about that on sunrise the other day, it has merit, but the hippies will have a sook no doubt. When they 'finally' have dual carriageway from bris - syd, how awesome would that be with a 130kph limit?

ltd · 01-11-2009, 01:27 PM

Sorry guys but this has been done to death. You're all trying to make sense of what motivates a pyschosis suffering git to emerge constantly in the public arena trying to limit our most basic freedoms; it's a whole lot simpler than that.
Harry Screwball is a nutter with a very small mans appendage. Nuff said?

Paxton · 01-11-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

You lot missed the more interesting?? discussion;-

http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-ne...1030-ho9e.html

What is your position on a proposal like this then?

I'm all for it. The F6 freeway (NSW) could easily support a raised speed limit, as could the Hume.

Green X · 01-11-2009, 02:36 PM

What has speed limits got to do with, The Pedestrian Council of Australia.

Scuby should just focus on his foot path's.

Someone needs to show this clown that when you Stick ya nose in where it don't belong someone might just brake it!!!

Keepleft · 01-11-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

What is your position on a proposal like this then?

I'm all for it. The F6 freeway (NSW) could easily support a raised speed limit, as could the Hume.

To be completely honest? My personal efforts, and the efforts of individual engineering staff @ RTA, are directed towards this goal, although it is long term.

ROAD ENVIRONMENT
Basically, we set about improving the physical road safety 'cross-section', this means we are aiming for continuous median barrier along a length of road to which a 120-130km/h limit could then be applied. You see that in the gowing lengths of road where the barrier is installed. We have a long way to go, but are getting results month by month. Main delaying issue - 'funding', but its moving ahead nonetheless.

The existing 110km/h dual carriageway and full freeway class median located "U-Turn bays" receive modern entry treatment AND 'gatelock'>> To prevent folk from doing illegal U-Turns (much more dangerous at 120-130km/h.
Much work on F3 with this.

Barrier prevents most of this kind of event:- http://www.nbntv.com.au/index.php/20...ms-young-life/

SAFER VEHICLES (Won't raise limits till our 'new-market' fleet has all the safety gear given in other high-speed locales).
Rear fog - change of ADR (NSW pushing this). (Death penalty for mis-use:-))

Triangle & safety vest - mandatory adoption and possible 'requirement to use' under some law - under some circumstance. (A matter for ARR and a new updated rule on this next year, and for 2011).

The possibility of a national first aid kit for cars, vans, 4WD (a standards minimum). (NSW Libs supporting these items).

* (Fire extinguishers will likely remain optional).

** The 'safer vehicles' bit should be read in conjunction with VIC's strategy of late, ie ESP, traction control, side curtain airbags etc.

*** Longer term - I see an end to national ADR administration, except for special cases and emergency services. Basically, we'll simply adopt 'live' the latest UNECE vehuicle construction reg, faster than we do now.

We will not do as some US States have done (55Mph NMSL to 70-80Mph), without first updating the road and vehicle requirements.

Some key NSW progressive RTA folk are right on this stuff.
Anti car/freedom? campaigners such as Harold resist this by much letter writing.

Will we see 120-130km/h limits outside NT? Yes, most likely NSW intercity lengths AFTER this program is achieved satisfactorily. BUT the offset might be a reduction in the ARR 25 'Rural default', from 100km/h to 80km/h, which I think is appropriate.

In a country like AUS, we may well see DAY or NIGHT speed-limits> higher n day, lower at night> Timeframe 4-10 years.

FPV8U · 01-11-2009, 05:12 PM

Would be nice to see a 2+ Lane between Melb to Syd then on to Bris @ 130km/h, Trucks, Caravans, Ect should be restricted to 100/110km/h.

Night V Day speed limits would be interisting also.

Ghiadude · 01-11-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

What is your position on a proposal like this then?

I'm all for it. The F6 freeway (NSW) could easily support a raised speed limit, as could the Hume.

I drive this road every day that I go to work. If the weather is good, theres no fog and in a modern car in most sections that speed is a walk in the park..... get to the bends though...

**SSD-85** · 01-11-2009, 09:00 PM

The limit between nambour and I think just after gympie recently dropped to 90 from 100 on M1. Which IMO was nothing short of silly. The reason being to reduce accidents occuring in what is seen as "hotspots" on that route. 90kph in an AU Falcon auto means constantly shifting between 3rd and 4th, its impossible to run cruise control without getting annoyed, plus it uses more damn fuel. There was nothing wrong with 100. Just someone trying to justify their cushy job I think....

bluestreak · 01-11-2009, 10:44 PM

Some potentially awesome stuff there, Keepleft. If it comes to fruition. Are you talking Ozwide or just NSW? I can't say I'd be a fan of 80km/h rural speed limits in WA - it'd take three years to get anywhere.

Referring to the original article, I'm not sure what Mr Screwball's point is. If a pedestrian is hit at 100 or 110km/h the result will be more or less the same - messy. Why would a pedestrian be walking across a 100km/h speed zone anyway? Fell from an overpass maybe?

Cheers

new2ford · 01-11-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

You lot missed the more interesting?? discussion;-

http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-ne...1030-ho9e.html

Perhaps this will induce the final heart attack for Mr Scruby!

However it's not going to bring much benefit if not paralleled by rail upgrade, as these highways will be so full of trucks they will just be road freight routes. The RTA has, on the downside, concentrated on its own narrow fiefdom at the expense of worthy proposals such as that to realign the north coast railway in tandem with upgrading of the Pacific Highway (i.e. sharing the same corridor).

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/r...369129228.html

http://rtsa.com.au/assets/2008/03/rt...sw-july-05.pdf

http://www.infrastructureaustralia.g...ongong_SUB.pdf

Playing dodgem between hundreds of trucks at 130 kph won't be so safe.

jether · 03-11-2009, 01:01 AM

I don't know who Harold Scruby is so I did a google wiki search (Harold Scruby wiki) and the first link was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Edit: seems the swear filter removed the link so let me google that for you http://lmgtfy.com/?q=harold+scruby+wiki

mcnews · 03-11-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

He's harping on about something that is common knowledge here in NSW.

This guy is a moron.

That the press is happy to quote and when the analysts look at all the traffic directed to that story from links from various automotive forums you can guarantee they will give him even more air next time....