The Age: End of the road nears for Falcon

[jphanna]

20 years ago the same problem was raised. ford produced a new 2.5 V6 FWD platform. this was going to be the new generation MUSTANG. after the enthusiasts kicked up a fuss and rejected it.....it became the PROBE.

i hope my history lesson was correct.

(by the way the guy who called the EA a smoldering dung, you just added a new terminology for that car. its not a bad car, just misunderstood....)

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by SVTVNM

Ive skimmed through most of these posts so I may have missed something, but if the new global platform is FWD what will happen to the Stang?

The Mustang has been isolated from everything else and will carry on as RWD regardless.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by jphanna

would it be out of the question for ford australia to suggest to the yanks, that the aussie rear drive platform is already highly developed for our conditions, and just accept any 'world' powerplants, that the yanks have developed to pass future regulations.

This is a good point, I have always thought that the intended introduction of the duratec “cyclone” V6 in 2010 was a good thing for the long term survival of the Falcon. When it got canned in favour of the current I6, the Falcons export appeal went with it. The I6 is an orphan in the Ford camp on the world stage because it is just not suitable in any other FWD applications like the V6 is. The I6 imho as good (read great) as it is, is now probably the Falcons export achilles heel.

If the falcon is to survive and this country needs it to then it will need to become far more global.

[sxckevo]

Did anyone notice this before, this may still mean we are in the 20 - 30 % of the vehicles which are not built on Global platforms....we can only hope i guess, this thread is getting very large now, i reckon by the end of the night every forum member will have posted there 2 cents worth lol
Mr Mulally said 70 to 80 per cent of Ford’s production would consist of vehicles built on global platforms, and that would allow the company to take advantage of its great scale.

and also if the falcon stays and changes to AWD maybe we'll be able to take out a modulator or something out of it to do rear wheel burnouts :sm_headba im pretty sure i heard you can do that with the territorys the best of both worlds haha

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Worst possible scenario: We import/build Taurus AND Mustang.

Which would see my worst scenario enacted, switch to Holden.

Never ever will I buy a FWD large car. If you have to introduce AWD to give RWD character and appeal to the market then the baseless comments that any decision will be cost driven and not market compliant, is utter rubbish.

AWD erodes the very basis of a front wheel drive rational.

While Holden continues to offer RWD Ford will be forced to withdraw from the Australian market. No point importing a product no one wants in any sort of number.

[kiwimark]

What has changed from the early 80's to make the Ford world car work now? It will suffer the NIH syndrome due to it's standing in the market not changing, but I think this time it will be the europeans that baulk at it.

[Road_Warrior]

Here is part of an article on the ABC about it, which includes some transcript from MB:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...12/2790540.htm

Ford Australia president Marin Burela says Ford Australia will still be a very important part of the global motor company despite the plans to put an end to the Falcon, which marks 50 years on Australian roads this year.

"Three months ago I discussed the future directions of the Falcon in Australia with [Ford chief] Alan Mulally, and there is no doubt the Ford company is now considering its future operations of the replacement vehicle of the Falcon - a decision not required for 12 to 18 months," he told ABC NewsRadio.

"And there is opportunity there for the Australian Government and the Australian motor industry to work with the global leadership of Ford about the future directions of the model replacement for Falcon.

"And I'm absolutely confident that the Australian auto industry, having gone through the worst crisis in three generations and remaining pretty much intact, will continue to play a vital part in Australia's future."

Lets face it, they've been softening us up for the FWD switch for a while now.

[JPFS1]

One Ford strategy does not always mean that you get all your large cars (for example) and consolidate them and kill the rest.

Unless the global community have a brain blend and all regulations align, then there will always be the requirement for localisation and design.

[Mr Hardware]

RWD -> FWD, i'd go to holden
I6 -> american V6, i'd go to holden

[Brazen]

Ford USA to build LHD Taurus.

Ford AU to build RHD Taurus, badged locally as a Falcon and exported to other RHD markets badged as Taurus.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford USA to build LHD Taurus.

Ford AU to build RHD Taurus, badged locally as a Falcon and exported to other RHD markets badged as Taurus.

Ford AU goes bankrupt.

[eb2fairmont]

The decision is still 12-18 months away. Ford are on the record as saying they'll consider GRWD when they are profitable.

I'd put money on the Falcon and Mustang being based off the same platform.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Burela

"And there is opportunity there for the Australian Government and the Australian motor industry to work with the global leadership of Ford about the future directions of the model replacement for Falcon."

Good to see Burela's got one hand out to the Government while knifing Ford supporters in the back with his other one.

So where there any Lincoln RWD showcars at Detroit this year?

[g220ba]

Seems like a bit of creative journalism making something out of nothing. Good way to get people reading newspapers and websites, bit of doom and gloom will do it everytime.

The way i read it is the falcon will not be design or engineered for our specific needs. That may mean a lot of different options, not necessarily fwd or rebadged taurus. There was a lot optimism about a possible lincoln rwd only days ago, now thanks to an article in a newspaper of all things it's all doom and gloom.

Personally i'll reserve judgement until a decision has atually been made and announced.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford USA to build LHD Taurus.

Ford AU to build RHD Taurus, badged locally as a Falcon and exported to other RHD markets badged as Taurus.

That is not such a bad idea as long as 2 things happen.
1) Ford AU gets a say (big say) in the design. Even small differences to sort our market
2) It is RWD

[demondan]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

Personally i'll reserve judgement until a decision has atually been made and announced.

ah another slow news day over at the Age.
Remember the I6 was to be discontinued this year or next and what happened.
I also seem to remember an announcement about the Focus being assembled here in Oz and what happened, both official announcements from Ford that failed to eventuate. Bottom line is I'll believe it when I see it and won't believe any dribble the media wishes to dish up or even half the dribble coming from Ford themselves because hindsight tells us "things change"

[Bearman]

Post 71, P3 is interesting reading. Not looking good for RWD but at least the current Taurus is a bit better looking than the '90's version (couldn't be any uglier!!).

Still, I'll never be convinced a large FWD will ever be a better driving experience than RWD. Honestly, we have such a good RWD platform and it makes great sense to share it with the Mustang. Why it is being ignored by the bigwigs is beyond me although I'm sure MB will be fighting hard for it.

Looks like years down the track it's a Mustang or keep whatever I have until it's scrap.

[GT69]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The Mustang has been isolated from everything else and will carry on as RWD regardless.

That's the main point that annoys me about this whole issue. Its taurus/falcon debate....but the bloody mustang is left untouched. As if ITS not the one that actually needs the make over. The new taurus is fine, the falcon is fantastic. The mustang underpinnings are the real issue yet 'its to remain RWD'. Why....so you can keep yank enthusiasts happy. How bout you bin the mustang to front wheel drive as well.....or just make the taurus a coupe and call it a mustang. Then sell that to your enthusiasts, after all, thats what they're trying to sell to the falcon enthusiast. Hell isn't that exactly the vibe we're getting with all these stories. Falcon and Taurus cant live together....their not the same car....they are, if anything, distant cousins. The falcon and the mustang are the pair that should be molding into one.

I wont be jumping ship anytime soon, it'll just mean the Falcons (you no...the non rebadges Taurus's) will become more sought after.....time to start collecting them.

I agree that there are to many models/makes. But I just love the vibe that Australia will lose all its unique models for American one's instead. Instead of the obvious (and the police car issue should point directly toward this) That the falcon be used for the basis, not only for the Crown Victoria, but also as the stable-mate of the mustang and/or rebadge in America as a lincoln (or whatever brand was being thrown around the other day).

Imagine if you will, the 'Performance based' Falcon series, have the Taurus sure, but smaller run performance cars, Taurus for people that just want a car, Mustang/falcon for the enthusiast. I mean geez.....there's no way they will bin the mustang, its not even an option.

/end rant

To add more to this, look at the failing sales of all other Ford products in Australia, Mondeo just isn't happening....Focus is up there, kind of, the Fiesta is slowly getting there, but the Falcon is steady, sure its market is shrinking....yet its market share is growing, Why aren't falcon people selling up for a mondeo, if technology and fuel savings are the only things that sell cars? The Terry is going strong. No, the falcon must die if they want to introduce the Taurus into our market, because Ford US will look incredibly stupid if the Falcon were to continue and the Taurus were to sell at the rate of the Mondeo.

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by just_pazz

It just won't sell. Full stop. Put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.

I think Holden would be licking their lips at the thought of being the only large, rear wheel drive sedan option in Australia. Hope this is not true.

I think you will find that Holden are probably not far behind in making a business decision like Ford, based on the poor current state of affairs of their parent company.
Just remember that a decision to stop producing the Falcon in Australia will have huge implications for both Holden and Toyota who all share local component manufacturers.
But business is business and if the cost of retooling for the next model Falcon cannot be amortized efficiently then why would FoA bother.

Would you run your business at a loss to satisfy a few loyal clientele ?

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

I think you will find that Holden are probably not far behind in making a business decision like Ford, based on the poor current state of affairs of their parent company.
Just remember that a decision to stop producing the Falcon in Australia will have huge implications for both Holden and Toyota who all share local component manufacturers.
But business is business and if the cost of retooling for the next model Falcon cannot be amortized efficiently then why would FoA bother.

Would you run your business at a loss to satisfy a few loyal clientele ?

Lets just remember for a moment no decision has been made yet and is not likely to be made until 12-18 months from now.

[Dr Smith]

Lets also remember Holden took an Opel and brought out the VB Commodore and in my biased opinion Ford Oz engineering talent is superior. VE was their first ground up effort and I would be staggered if they can spend the same on the next new Commodore without exports guarranteed. And their parent is in bigger trouble. If Ford Oz can co-develop the RWD platform with a US sized budget then we'll actually get a better Falcon and access to the latest technologies without the fear of working to "normal" aussie budgets.

[Brazen]

I honestly think the bigger issue is whether Ford AU will be making cars in Australia Full Stop. To me the Taurus platform is going to happen.

All this talk about a decision on RWD being 12 - 18 months away is rubbish, its already happened, they just need to sign it off and work out funding and other issues which will happen over the coming year.

With ute and wagon out of the picture, the volumes to sustain Taurus based FWD and AWD Falcon production is concerning, I still think that overturning the local Focus decision has made the future difficult for Ford Australia to continue manufacturing cars.

[banarcus]

Who buys new Falcons these days?

Did British small car buyers shun the MK3 FWD Escort over the early RWD ones?

Does Ford really care about people foaming at the mouth over a car that is insignificant on the world stage?

Has Ford said that it will cease production here in Australia?

I'm going to enjoy a beer right now, anyone want to join me?

[FPV+fteT3]

IF this comes about and thats a big IF I think the part that will lets say upset ford faithful in aust. is that the yanks keep a RWD mustang for their market almost exclusively and shaft the oz falc. I think that would cause a major revolt around here and nothing FWD they send here will be taken up by ex falcon owners in any large numbers. Would be like when they dropped the V8 and sales slid for a few years.....then a return of the 8 maybe falcon will go into hibernation for 2-3 years and return bit like dejavu.
In anycase my cars will just have to last longer weekend fun and keep replacing the daily's as I for one wont drive a FWD any way you wrap it.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by b0son

Even when sales of this segment were at good levels, Falcon's future was tenuous. With the segment in decline, its inevitable that Falcon will be dropped.

Agreed, the business case for Falcon just doesn't stack up in the medium/longterm. Falcon sales are trending downwards and have been for years and there is just no way of getting around it.

Thing is the investment in the Coyote and V4 engines for Falcon makes no sense either if they were planning to kill the platform altogether in five years. Ironically the "good news" annoucement of the I6 soldiering on, no matter how warm and fuzzy we Ford fans might have felt about it, wasn't good news for Falcons long term future. It basically said there wasn't any reason to update the most popular engine sold with the car, because the car wasn't going to be around long enough to worry about it.

Still that much investment in new engines for half a decades sales in such a small market as Australia, make no sense. Despite the outrage on here, killing the Boss V8 and not replacing it would be the logical thing to do and I fully expect Ford would have done it, if there wasn't at least an idea or push from Ford Aust to keep Falcon alive in some way. If the Coyotes future was only for a facelifted FG then the enthusiasts be dammed, as Falcon would only have five years and many "enthusiasts" don't buy new Fords anyway. Those that do can buy the Turbo I6 or buy a Commodore. So be it.

So why invest that much money in a new V8 and a V4? My guess is Falcon will die in 2015, but the platform will live on. By making it global they can afford to whack the new technology in it like sync and put a new tin hat on the car that will appeal to a broader international audience. Might keep the Falcon platform viable for another decade as a niche model, at relatively little cost, before petrol engines and the platforms for them are phased out. With the updates, production could be moved to where it's cheaper to produce (Thailand) or more politically expedient (North America).

If it arrives back in Australia as a niche car, then Ford Aus can do some PR to overcome the loss of Falcon and Ford fans, being a forgiving lot, will start raving about the all new imported car with “Falcon heritage”.

Meanwhile Taurus production from mostly imported parts will (somewhat) fill the gap left by the Falcon on the production line and allow some more PR spin from Ford Aus. Certainly long enough to get through the bad PR from the engine plant closing and the loss of the I6. Then as big car sales inevitably decline enough, with buyer behaviour and the change of technologies in cars, the Taurus will change to import status.Bit like how the Pulsar was built here one day and imported the next. Most buyers, outside the car enthusiasts will even know it's happened.

Ford Aus future is probably in engineering and testing long term, with maybe production of niche cars for a global market if the yanks can be convinced to leave the plant open long term. Lets hope the Lincoln rumours is that opportunity.

[GT-GTF]

This may well be a a positive step for Australia provided cars continue to be manufactured locally, adapted for local conditions and made in rwd or awd.

If Ford does this they are really going back to the future and what worked for them in the 1960's ie global platform vehicle adapted for local conditions.

The first and second generation Falcons sold in Australia were based almost entirely on US models (ie XK to XY).

Even the XY falcon which is so venerated by Ford fans in Australia was based on the 1966 model American Ford Falcon an American car that was adapted locally for local conditions.

If Ford pours all of their resources into developing a large rwd car to sell globally which is then adapted for local conditions (in the same way as first and second generation Falcons were) this may well be a positive step for Falcon fans.

FPV can still exist as a local tuning house for Ford product and adapt cars for Aussie tastes.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I honestly think the bigger issue is whether Ford AU will be making cars in Australia Full Stop. To me the Taurus platform is going to happen.

All this talk about a decision on RWD being 12 - 18 months away is rubbish, its already happened, they just need to sign it off and work out funding and other issues which will happen over the coming year.

With ute and wagon out of the picture, the volumes to sustain Taurus based FWD and AWD Falcon production is concerning, I still think that overturning the local Focus decision has made the future difficult for Ford Australia to continue manufacturing cars.

How was 40,000 odd small cars with very little profit going to help secure Ford AUS manufacturing?

[g220ba]

While a decision may have been made or they may be a long way into the process no one on here or in any media outlet in the world has any idea what that may be. It's all speculation based on what we knew months ago, the falcon will not be a stand alone vehicle. As i said earlier there are many options they would/will consider and only people within the organisation are qualified to give definite answers. They have said within 12-18 months we will see what decision has been made.

The media really have way too much control on the general population. Doom and gloom gets peoples attention, when in reality we see nothing different to what we already knew.

[Franco Cozzo]

Dad just came in the door and goes to me "They're cutting the Falcon". The problem is pretty much everyone here believes the media.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

How was 40,000 odd small cars with very little profit going to help secure Ford AUS manufacturing?

Last year Ford sold 32,000 Falcons!

The small car segment has a huge private buyer base. The Mazda 3 is the biggest selling privately bought car in Australia which means more profits than the fleet driven large car segment.

Also small cars are becoming more and more premium. Buyers are willing to sacrifice size for economy and features. And buyers are willing to buy the more expensive trims. The Focus with its advanced petrol, diesel engines and upcoming hybrid and electric versions would have plugged right into Australian consumer tastes and also complement Australian government policies.

Factories are about reducing fixed costs through economies of scale, an extra 40,000 units pumping through Broadmeadows a year would help the amortize production over a greater amount of cars which would help the Falcon.

I still would have fought tooth and nail for the Focus production, if only just to help secure Ford's manufacturing future in Australia and thus secure the Falcon's future.