Fatal driver was .19 - Page 2

uranium_death · 20-01-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6T

All I can say is that thank god he didn't crash into another innocent oncoming driver.

No, it's only a tragedy that a few other people were killed...who were innocent...stupid...but innocent.

What happened to the, 'if you don't trust the driver, don't get in' message along with the 50 gazillion 'Speed Kills' and 'Drink Drive and you're a King Cockmunch' messages. How damn thick must people be?

If people after all these messages cannot learn what it means to be responsible, then the problem is not the current system.

The problem is them...and frankly, there is nothing you can do but let them kill themselves. The sad part about that along that method comes innocent lives lost.

robbyg · 20-01-2010, 07:18 PM

so true

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 07:27 PM

Maybe they need to raise the driving age to 21......

:

Smoke Pursuit · 20-01-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe they need to raise the driving age to 21......

:

and drinking age while they are at it..

Its rediculous!!

GT · 20-01-2010, 07:44 PM

Despite the original media stories, only one of the boys was a local (I am in Kilmore and I am referring to Wallan) and on Tuesday I was in Wallan at an appointment. I sat with a local who knew the boy who died and her daughter was also with her - a friend of his. They were also acquainted with most of the other children who died. The story they told me helped me understand where a lot of the problems began with this tragedy.

Out of respect for the boy and his family at this time, I am not here to repeat 'gossip' but you can read between the lines.

The big message I can give you, is just how important PARENTING is! We live in a very fast, sad, shallow, selfish ........ world (I could go in forever) but children need example, discipline and guidance - no matter how many times they argue with you, that you are UNCOOL, UNFAIR and OUT OF TOUCH. As parents, if we can't display decent mature behaviour then how do our children learn? Lead by example - be their mentors!

Stand your ground - your kids MIGHT (don't bank on that one) one day thank you for it. At least you can be reassured that you did your best.

Gaela

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTGTP

Despite the original media stories, only one of the boys was a local (I am in Kilmore and I am referring to Wallan) and on Tuesday I was in Wallan at an appointment. I sat with a local who knew the boy who died and her daughter was also with her - a friend of his. They were also acquainted with most of the other children who died. The story they told me helped me understand where a lot of the problems began with this tragedy.

Out of respect for the boy and his family at this time, I am not here to repeat 'gossip' but you can read between the lines.

The big message I can give you, is just how important PARENTING is! We live in a very fast, sad, shallow, selfish ........ world (I could go in forever) but children need example, discipline and guidance - no matter how many times they argue with you, that you are UNCOOL, UNFAIR and OUT OF TOUCH. As parents, if we can't display decent mature behaviour then how do our children learn? Lead by example - be their mentors!

Stand your ground - your kids MIGHT (don't bank on that one) one day thank you for it. At least you can be reassured that you did your best.

Gaela

Wise and well spoken....

SM1DY · 20-01-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe they need to raise the driving age to 21......

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

and drinking age while they are at it..

What's next, the legal gambling age?

Though I don't think it's bad idea to raise the drinking age to 21, raising the legal driving age isn't the answer though. By the time your 18 things like the responsibility of work and tertiary education require the independence of having your licence.

phillyc · 20-01-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTGTP

The big message I can give you, is just how important PARENTING is! We live in a very fast, sad, shallow, selfish ........ world (I could go in forever) but children need example, discipline and guidance - no matter how many times they argue with you, that you are UNCOOL, UNFAIR and OUT OF TOUCH. As parents, if we can't display decent mature behaviour then how do our children learn? Lead by example - be their mentors!

Stand your ground - your kids MIGHT (don't bank on that one) one day thank you for it. At least you can be reassured that you did your best.

Gaela

Excellent post.

Franco Cozzo · 20-01-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

and drinking age while they are at it..

Its rediculous!!

I don't know about you but at my school the kids seemed to start drinking when they where in year 9, so 14/15. So what would a higher drinking age do? You know what I'll start another thread instead of hijack this one.

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

What's next, the legal gambling age?

Though I don't think it's bad idea to raise the drinking age to 21, raising the legal driving age isn't the answer though. By the time your 18 things like the responsibility of work and tertiary education require the independence of having your licence.

Yes i know... i wasnt really being serious....
Raising the drinking age wouldnt impact peoples independance though....

Smoke Pursuit · 20-01-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

What's next, the legal gambling age?

Though I don't think it's bad idea to raise the drinking age to 21, raising the legal driving age isn't the answer though. By the time your 18 things like the responsibility of work and tertiary education require the independence of having your licence.

Yeh im more worried about raising the legal drinking age.. but it wouldnt do anything because we have dumbarse negligent parents that fuel the fire...

Fair enough feed your kids booze in your own house under your own supervision, but dont send them out to parties with a bootfull where you can't watch them / look after them.

FPV8U · 20-01-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBROO

Like the slogan says 'If you drink and drive your a bloody idiot'

+1 While the Speed was obviously a huge issue, Drink Driving has taken the toll of another 5 here..

It's a huge waste of life and despite all the media pleas, no, people won't stand up and take notice unless it has personally touched them and even then we are becoming so desensitized from regular "Nightmare" Crashes no matter what the age group of the accident that it will take quite a while to sink in and understand what just happened.

I have Friends who Drink and Drive, i have stopped from time to time (Parties at my house have a keys in cupboard rule) , but you can't protect them all the time and the same effect is here and now with people talking of their own sons and daughters you can teach them all you know, how it should be done, the do's and don'ts, but if they don't have the head on their shoulders that you think they do there is really nothing that can be done.

zdcol71 · 20-01-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by low64

It is a tragedy

.... but s h i t happens... everyone makes there own decisions in life..they made theres...i have lost some mates in my time so i know what lost feels like..

But everyone says what can we do to stop this.......Nothing... its life and we will all be grateful to wake up 2moro. Its only some cases that really pop into the media... I seen on the tv that the brother must have been a hero for saving his sister as he was over her...well with a impact like that it would have been like shaking a packet of chips and seeing how you landed.. trying to make a hero out of 5 reckless people in a car...pppffftttt

Anyhow...what about the 100000 plus people that died in haiti?

3 or 4 valid points, last one though is probably subject matter for another thread, as mentioned , best to stay on track so as not to close the thread as was the last one.
Something that keeps appearing in many of these threads, is calls for driver education, may I suggest that that education starts with (us) as parents. I mentioned in the previous thread that my two kids were not far off their Ps. In QLD, there is a requirement for 100 hours of driving on Ls before hand. Hours are considered double value when completed with a recognised driving school, but for me, I am going to do the majority of the hours with them, not because I think I am a better teacher than a "professional" instructor, but because I want to make sure that they are learning to use the roads in a responsible way. I wan't them to know it's ok to give the tailgaters a wide berth, and if the guy in front of them is doing the speed limit or below ,then take a breath and enjoy the drive. I want to be able to point out to them all the idiots who you know are on Ps but think it's below them to display the sticker, but still want to challenge the law with a"pull me over and it's a badge" mentality.
So many of there mates are "learning" to drive with their mates who have only just got their own licences!!!
How many parents are taking their kids to driver training courses whilst they are on L plates, or sitting down over a meal at night and talking(openly) about the things that make up threads like this.
By the numbers of kids who keep getting killed on the roads, may I suggest ,not enough

phillyc · 20-01-2010, 08:06 PM

In Japan, to stop people from getting into cars with drunk drivers, they brought about a new law. If the driver gets done DUI, you do too. Whilst plenty are still dying, they believe it has had an affect on reducing the incidence with multiple passengers.

Put it this way, the peer pressure is turned around 180 degrees.

From "C'mon mate, yeah you can drive me (and others) home (because i don't want to risk it!" to "Nah, I don't think I want to drive (risking my licence) or have you drive me (risking my licence) either!"

They should be thinking about their own and others safety but at least they might consider their licence. Sure, that law won't work on many, but it could work on enough.

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdcol71

3 or 4 valid points, last one though is probably subject matter for another thread, as mentioned , best to stay on track so as not to close the thread as was the last one.
Something that keeps appearing in many of these threads, is calls for driver education, may I suggest that that education starts with (us) as parents. I mentioned in the previous thread that my two kids were not far off their Ps. In QLD, there is a requirement for 100 hours of driving on Ls before hand. Hours are considered double value when completed with a recognised driving school, but for me, I am going to do the majority of the hours with them, not because I think I am a better teacher than a "professional" instructor, but because I want to make sure that they are learning to use the roads in a responsible way. I wan't them to know it's ok to give the tailgaters a wide berth, and if the guy in front of them is doing the speed limit or below ,then take a breath and enjoy the drive. I want to be able to point out to them all the idiots who you know are on Ps but think it's below them to display the sticker, but still want to challenge the law with a"pull me over and it's a badge" mentality.
So many of there mates are "learning" to drive with their mates who have only just got their own licences!!!
How many parents are taking their kids to driver training courses whilst they are on L plates, or sitting down over a meal at night and talking(openly) about the things that make up threads like this.
By the numbers of kids who keep getting killed on the roads, may I suggest ,not enough

BINGO!
Take responsibility for your kids, family and friends.
Don't duck shove responsibility back onto the govt for education and guidance.. it MUST start at home, and that means you and me.

Stand up to your mates or family members if they do the wrong thing in a car, take the keys off them, if i lost a friend because i stopped them driving drunk or driving reckless he was never a real friend anyway....

menil · 20-01-2010, 08:24 PM

We know the slogan says "If you drink and drive your a bloody idiot" but if you make it home your a bloody legend .I have no doubt if these unfortunate young adults had made it home they would have gained cult status the next day .We as mature adults should be leeding by example ,sadly very few of us could claim we do .

bigkev531 · 20-01-2010, 08:35 PM

no matter what people do, parents police education anything young kids arent goin to learn, i was one of those drink and drive your a bloody idiot,' this will sounds double sided but the only way young people really learn is for it to happen to them, what happened was extremely unfortunate but i remember when i did all my mates where more drunk than me not to say it was right, it wasn't but its in the majority of young peoples blood to hoon drink drive go out cut a few loops.

Franco Cozzo · 20-01-2010, 08:39 PM

We've got the 120 hours thing on the Ls here and most of my mates just faked the hours and went for the test. The logbook works in legit cases but thats about it.

Auslandau · 20-01-2010, 09:11 PM

I have always thought that driver education should be started at school .... not just how to change gears and what pedal does what ... but an actual subject like maths, english etc.

I lived in Shepparton and remember going to DECA many times with school and was doing laps in early high school with a proper instructor and sat in class learning the rules. Also living with space gave me the opportunity to grow up driving. I went to SA and got my license early and by the time I was 18, while I enjoyed cars V8's etc, they were just part of my life by then. Not the sudden impact that it is with most. Did do some silly things ... and probably still do but no where near to the extent we seem to see now.

I do believe its the sudden BANG .. 18 yrs, grab your license and finally some freedom ... can go to pubs do what I want .... "Stuff you lot. I can do what ever I want now" attitude. Its not gradual or something that many grow up with. Its way too instant.

I was a little disappointed that the reason this incident happened was related to alcohol as I see some thinking that "I am not stupid ... if I drive at 180km/h in an 80 zone I will be fine because I haven't had a drink!"

All very tragic ..... it will continue to happen because of both kids attitudes and parents attitudes towards them. The authorities are doing nothing except fine the general population for drifting 3% over some obscure speed limit but ignoring those with the potential to do harm because its all just too damn hard and expensive.

Removing the amount of police on the road is a major problem ... not just purpose built Highway pursuit cars but just general patrols who can use discretion in who they pull over and be real police to everyone!

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ED Classic · 20-01-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

We've got the 120 hours thing on the Ls here and most of my mates just faked the hours and went for the test. The logbook works in legit cases but thats about it.

I agree 100%, it will stop the innocent/straighter ones but thats about it

Archilino · 20-01-2010, 09:23 PM

Listening to morning talk back radio about this issue it seems everyone is blaming the car, "the car is too powerfull" "they need to drive 4 cylinder cars". Last time i checked cars dont drive themselves, when is society going to let people be responsible for their own actions?

I'm not advocating the government hand out v12's to p plate drivers but is common sense too dificult for some?

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archilino

Listening to morning talk back radio about this issue it seems everyone is blaming the car, "the car is too powerfull" "they need to drive 4 cylinder cars". Last time i checked cars dont drive themselves, when is society going to let people be responsible for their own actions?

I'm not advocating the government hand out v12's to p plate drivers but is common sense too dificult for some?

A p plater can buy what ever car he wants... the law doesnt stop them buying a car that's too powerful to begin with, it just says they can't legally drive it.

Maybe it should be impossible to legally own a car outside of the restrictions too.....

**Sorted** · 20-01-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

I have always thought that driver education should be started at school .... not just how to change gears and what pedal does what ... but an actual subject like maths, english etc. !

I agree with this 100% but the government would rather introduce something that they can gain revenue from - adding driver education is a cost to the government.

They go on about School Zones that if it saved one life its worth it........

Why don't they have the same attitude towards driver education??????

Government on one hand is heading towards crushing Hoon's car as the Hoon Laws are apparently not working but then I read an article where it stated that out of the 10,000 drivers/cars done by the Hoon Law only 2% of then re-offend - not working hey - why dont they look at some facts

Doesnt matter what happens there is always going to be one person that will break the rules

Archilino · 20-01-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

A p plater can buy what ever car he wants... the law doesnt stop them buying a car that's too powerful to begin with, it just says they can't legally drive it.

Maybe it should be impossible to legally own a car outside of the restrictions too.....

Agreed, but it infuriates me that ppl think what car he drove was the only factor in the crash. The fact the he was almost 4 times over the limit-irrelevant, driving with 5 others in the car, irrelevant. Exessive speeding? irrelevant.

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

I agree with this 100% but the government would rather introduce something that they can gain revenue from - adding driver education is a cost to the government.

They go on about School Zones that if it saved one life its worth it........

Why don't they have the same attitude towards driver education??????

Government on one hand is heading towards crushing Hoon's car as the Hoon Laws are apparently not working but then I read an article where it stated that out of the 10,000 drivers/cars done by the Hoon Law only 2% of then re-offend - not working hey - why dont they look at some facts

Doesnt matter what happens there is always going to be one person that will break the rules

But why dont people take responsibility for their own education? Why does the govt have to do it? why should i pay for it with my taxes?
The driving courses are readily available already but it wont make you take sensible decisions in a car, ive seen young guys come away from defensive driving courses even more cocky and over confident then before they did it... good parenting is the problem...

4Vman · 20-01-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archilino

Agreed, but it infuriates me that ppl think what car he drove was the only factor in the crash. The fact the he was almost 4 times over the limit-irrelevant, driving with 5 others in the car, irrelevant. Exessive speeding? irrelevant.

The vast majority of people are blamming alcohol and speed... not the car.
By the way, he was meant to be 00, not 0.05....

blizz · 20-01-2010, 09:47 PM

you can raise the drinking age all you want but its not going to stop them from getting it...just have older people get it for them...no point having them drive 4cylinder cars because you can still get a 4cylinder up to those speeds if you really want..
all we can really do is make it when they go for their p's they have to visit crash victims and see very "graphic" images and videos of crash seens and maybe just maybe that will knock some sense into them

Archilino · 20-01-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The vast majority of people are blamming alcohol and speed... not the car.
By the way, he was meant to be 00, not 0.05....

Apologies you are correct regarding the BAC, im just commenting on the talk-back radio i heard.

Auslandau · 20-01-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

But why dont people take responsibility for their own education? Why does the govt have to do it? why should i pay for it with my taxes?
The driving courses are readily available already but it wont make you take sensible decisions in a car, ive seen young guys come away from defensive driving courses even more cocky and over confident then before they did it... good parenting is the problem...

I am not talking about driving courses as such. I am not that keen on defensive driving courses as this is done once someone has a license in their hand already and it can be a bit of teaching hoons to hoon better ....... I would rather pay this with my taxes than French lessons during high school!

People can only take responsibility for their own education if their is suitable education available. It isn't unfortunately. Start early and let it become part of peoples life ... not just so suddenly.

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4Vman · 20-01-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

I am not talking about driving courses as such. I am not that keen on defensive driving courses as this is done once someone has a license in their hand already and it can be a bit of teaching hoons to hoon better ....... I would rather pay this with my taxes than French lessons during high school!

People can only take responsibility for their own education if their is suitable education available. It isn't unfortunately. Start early and let it become part of peoples life ... not just so suddenly.

I Agree with you.