Who is more Australian Holden or Ford?

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by block58

Yep,
Ford of Austalia is an Australian company, owned by American company Ford
Holden is an Australian company, owned by American company GM

Isn't Ford Australia owned by Ford Canada?

quote wikipedia

Ford Australia is the Australian subsidiary of Ford Motor Company and was founded in Geelong, Victoria in 1925 as an outpost of Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited. At that time, Ford Canada was a separate company from Ford USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mo...y_of_Australia

[Flat Top]

i would judge it by local content in the locally assembled cars. By $volume my guess Ford would win hands down. Holden sourced more components in China nowadays and are moving more sourcing even cheaper to India.

[Flat Top]

This is the question on the next Ford Platform , how much $will be resourced locally. perhaps government money should be qualified by local content its is everywhere else in a round about way?

[JC]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Isn't Ford Australia owned by Ford Canada?

quote wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mo...y_of_Australia

wikipedia - the source of all truth!

Perhaps..."At that time....." but not now.

[JC]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

but some toyota's are aussie built cars aren't they. certainly some mitsubishi's were, and yet no one ever called them australian

apart from being behind the times, the 48-215 was a '46 chev with shortened guards and was powered by a '42 oldsmobile engine that sat around unwanted in their warehouse for years. holden thought, no one else wants it, lets bring it to australia - the sheep will love it; and they did

neither company is australian - which one is more is more so, is almost irrelevant, because the increments that indicate which one is in front are so small that the average earthling would have no idea at all

The Magna and the Camry are Australian built, but I would not call them Australian cars because their parent companies are Japanese. See how defining the criteria affects what is Australian and what isn't?

[JC]

Originally Posted by EB92

The profits for both GM and Ford head overseas, but the design origins tell
another story..... Can't remember which mag I got this from (Wheels ?),
but the point is pretty clear.

That's as close as anyone can get to defining which car (not which company) is more Australian.

This is a great thread so far - debate has raged, points have been made, and there is no real clear winner, IMO. Just like a real Pub, and an argument between holden and ford enthusiasts! Best thread in the Pub for years!

[burnz]

Originally Posted by EB92

The profits for both GM and Ford head overseas, but the design origins tell
another story..... Can't remember which mag I got this from (Wheels ?),
but the point is pretty clear.

the last of the holden engine was 1999 VT series 1

[castellan]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

but some toyota's are aussie built cars aren't they. certainly some mitsubishi's were, and yet no one ever called them australian

apart from being behind the times, the 48-215 was a '46 chev with shortened guards and was powered by a '42 oldsmobile engine that sat around unwanted in their warehouse for years. holden thought, no one else wants it, lets bring it to australia - the sheep will love it; and they did

neither company is australian - which one is more is more so, is almost irrelevant, because the increments that indicate which one is in front are so small that the average earthling would have no idea at all

The 48-215 has not got a chassis like the big 46 Chev and Holden was one of the most advanced cars at the time and the motor is not a Oldsmobile at all the Vauxhall engine and body is more similar like but not the same.

[stang65]

It amazes me when one puts his knowledge to good and not evil what can be acheived(inspired by Get Smart) Being a Ford man I have learnt so much from this thread and must say it goes to show that members can be civil and can engage in a topic without attacking each other.

The irony is it took a friends ex girlfriend to make her statement that Ford isn`t even Australian to him to start this topic. I guess it comes back to Ford really to stand up a bit taller and scream from the top of their lungs that they are as Australian as Holden if not more.

Once again thanks to the Mods for allowing this thread to continue.

[stang65]

P.s what happens if I hit add thanks to everyone who posted.......I DON`t want to crash the serverr....lol

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by castellan

The 48-215 has not got a chassis like the big 46 Chev

obviously if it was a shortened (in my words) 46 chev, it could not have shared the exact same chassis. in my words though, my xb is not australian. no matter what anyone tries to tell me, it is still a cross between a torino and mustang. the basic shape of the 48-215 was already there - maybe as a vauxhall, but most definately as a chev. therefore in my view it is not australian

Originally Posted by castellan

and Holden was one of the most advanced cars at the time

from what i have heard about them from people who drove them when they were younger, they were pieces of crap. the only reason people bought them was everything else was imported. 1948 was the last year of clam shell guards, yet holden thought australians are behind the times, we will supply them for the next 9 years. they won't know the difference - and they didn't

[noosacuda]

Up untill the '90's the 1971 VH Valiant had the "Highest Australian Content" of all the Australian made cars of 97%. Lifters and some electrical components were from the US.

[JG34JA]

OK, I'm going to quickly jot down the Australian Engineering points for both respective companies that I can remember, not worrying about ownership in a > 95% foreign-owned country like Australia is.

Holden:
Styling of early models uniquely Australian, US oversight
Red engines 1964 - Australian developed, similar to Chevy but indigenous design
253 and 308 V8 - Australian design.
1960's Chevy Impalas locally assembled.
LC Torana - Australian design vastly modified from Opel (?) HB Torana, indigenous engines and engineering
HK-T-G: Australian design, Aussie motors for the first time when 253/308 are offered with the HT. HK Monaro is first truly Aussie Coupe by the big three. Long wheel base Brougham designed but is basically a Premier with a longer boot and Fairlane outsells it comfortably.
HQ-WB Fully Australian engineered partial chassis/monocoque, all Australian engines, this Ladies and Gentleman was their absolute 'peak' in 'Australianness'. Includes Statesman LWB, Australia's 1 tonner, Ute, Van wagon. 'Overlander' versions are engineered by a Tassie company.
LH Torana Australian.
VB Commodore - not Australian. Modified from Opel Commodore/Rekord, carries over 'red' engines with horrid ADR27A 'solution'. Major mistake in downsizing when motors not changed and consumption is very nearly equal.
VC Commodore - not, but uses Australian 'blue' engines. 4 cyl Commodore backfires.
Camira: Aussie (? - was it unique?) small car.
VH Commorore - not, end of 253 V8
VK Commodore - 'black engines' including EFI are last Aussie Holden 6.
VL - German based body, Nissan 6. Still has Holden 308/304 V8. Turbo version of Nissan 6 becomes a cult vehicle.
VN - Panic re-engineering and widening of Opel, panic inclusion of Buick V6
VP - similar. VG ute marks return of the missed Holden ute, gone since WB. VQ Statesman returns, again missed since WB.
VR - Restyle of VN.
VS - Ecotec motor released, similar to Buick but an evolution of this. Not sure if redesign is all Holden, or is shared in other GM products.
VT - Larger body of Opel/Vauxhall, adapted for Australian conditions. Holden finally regains the full size that HQ-WB had and sells. IRS under engineered compared to Ford. All-Aussie 308 V8 dies out in favour of LS1 Chev in 2000. In a wonderful move, the Monaro is reborn to much accolade.
Vectra - midsize FWD assembled at this time.
VX - Similar to VT, more refined.
VY - Sheet metal changes. Similar. Panel van fibreglass conversion offered for ute (rare). A range of derivatives are creatively sprung off the V platform by Peter Hannenberger: 1 tonner ute, Cross Trac AWD on this and the 'Crewman' dual cab ute, the Adventra wagon. These are pretty unique, and would work well in an Aussie car market that is not so open and filled with specialist 'niche' vehicles for every niche.
VZ - introduction of 3.6L HFV6. This is a world GM engine? Monaro via HSV goes AWD!
VE - Holden goes All-Australian, for the first time in Commodore history. All Australian designed body/platform. V8's imported, 6's assembled here (I think the blocks are imported?). Aussie station wagon continues as Sportwagon and unlike the Ford it is fully marketed. Development of 'SIDI' motors shared with GM USA. W427 HSV.
Cruze: local assembly of small car in sedan and hatch, petrol and diesel powertrains and quoted as 25% local content. It's a start!





Ford:
Zephyr was locally assembled model, similar to previous models built since 1925. A more informed historian might want to expand here.
1960's Fairlanes and Galaxies locally assembled.
Falcon was US competitor to Beetle on release, we got the XK and it's family of US 'Falcon 6'. Australian sedan, wagon, ute and panel van are included, and the ute is unique.
XL - Australian input on suspension, body work.
XM - More Australian input on body work
XP - Uses Mercury Comet front. Massive increases in durability engineered by Ford Australia and highlighted by the 70,000 mile torture test at the You Yangs
XR - US Falcon with Windsor V8
ZA Fairlane - Ford Australia creates its own long wheelbase luxury car using Falcon parts. Replaces Galaxie US design and is an instant hit. Uses Falcon 6 and imported V8, but follows all Falcon changes (so it gets more Australian as time goes on...)
XT - engine increases. With the 6, the Australian team raise the deck height by 1" and create a unique Aussie 6 in the 188/221. No American equivalent.
XW - Australian input in styling, 6's are Aussie modified
XY - Fully Australian designed 200/250 (*NOT the same as US motors of same displacement*) Cleveland V8's initially imported. Very first ever Aussie 4x4 ute by a mass manufacturer. Pity it didn't continue.
XA - Fully Australian designed body. Aussie made Cleveland V8s in Geelong. The Falcon becomes All Australian. Massive P4 and P6 LTD released, huge 120" wheelbase. Aimed as competitor to luxury sedans, this is the only time an Aussie company really did a separate, larger than LWB vehicle itself. Also Falcon Coupe and Landau introduced. Proves to be last Falcon coupe by Ford.
Cortina: Assembled in this time, fitted with Aussie 250 even!
XB - ditto to XA, all Australian design. Falcon takes out 'top selling car' title, as Bill Bourke predicted with launch of XW!
XC -ditto. Aussie inline 6 given 'Cross Flow'.
XD - 2nd Fully Australian Falcon generation. All Aussie design and engineering, with a look (but no commonality) with European Granada. Inline 6 gets a Honda-built alloy head however.
XE - Australian, gets Aussie watts link rear suspension. No more V8's. Aussie 6 gets EFI.
Laser (and Meteor?) assembled in this time.
XF - Australian. Ford destroys GM-H in sales, the XF is the pinnacle of Falcon's dominance in the 1980s. The 3.3L six with 5 speed transmission works out to be more economical than the smaller, Commodore competitor! This "we did it our way" spirit of engineering continues at Ford to this day.
EA - 3rd generation Fully Australian Falcon, powered by Aussie inline 6. The design is described as one of the best looking large sedans in the world, and is penned by Aussies. Ute/Van continues as XF. Aussie 6 gets SOHC, comes in 3.9 and (rare) 3.2L versions.
EB - Australian, US Windsor V8 makes a return. Aussie partner Tickford begins modifying Falcons with performance parts, engineers Aussie 6 for 'XR6' variants. Aussie 6 resized at 4.0L. Ute modified into XG and uses, basically, an EB front end (mechanically).
ED - Australian. XR6 wagon released. A golden age for wagon lovers.
EF - Australian, substantial reskin. Aussie 6 is evolved further. Last XR6 wagon dammit!
EL - Australian.
XH - last XD based ute, Last Australian Panel Van.
AU - 4th Fully Australian generation Falcon. Polarising styling hides a Unique Aussie IRS (huge and tough), Aussie inline 6 is substantially rebuilt into 'Intech' motor- VCT version is unique and developed by Tickford/Jaguar. BHP bake hardened steel body - how Aussie is that?! More Australian design and content than any Holden, ever. Dedicated LPG motor created in a first. Re-introduction of a modern Aussie Ford ute sees the 1 tonner reborn as well! Tickford begins hand assembling V8's which see their way into the XR8. Monster 5.6L Stoker Windsor unique to Australia and the last Tickford motor. The AU - the most Australian Falcon in design and content ever?
BA - Australian redesign of AU. Substantially modified. Aussie 6 gets DOHC, US Windsor V8 replaced by Aussie 'mix' of 5.4L Truck block with DOHC heads, also an imported 3V version exists for road cars. RTV hi-ride ute created, which is unique. GT reborn as an FPV. Aussie 6 is turbocharged and rewrites the performance landscape.
SX Territory - Fully Australian AWD and RWD wagon using Falcon 6.
BF/SY - inline 6 mated to German 6 speed ZF gearbox (made in Mex? Germany?) Aussie Falcon wagon bites the bullet, just before wagon segment takes off. Fairlane bows out.
FG - 5th generation design of Australian Falcon. FPV creates supercharged 5.0 V8 as a wholly Australian programme. Soon to come, LILPG and Ecoboost turbo 4cyl...
2011- New SZ Territory updates Aussie Crossover Wagon. First Aussie fitting of a diesel in a long time.

I get the sense that for both Manufacturers part sourcing has become increasingly foreign in the last decade as the onslaught of Chinese cheap parts has been felt, but in terms of engineering it's no contest - Falcon is more Australian by a country mile since 1984. In truth, both companies' history is one of taking ideas from offshore and 'Australianising' them over time. Every now and then they are able to engineer something 'fully Australian'. Long may it continue.

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

1960's Chevy Impalas locally assembled.

1950's model Chevrolets (eg, Bel Air) were assembled here (by Holden) according to a classic car magazine from the 90s. They had heavier gauge sheet metal than their US-built counterparts as well.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by burnz

the last of the holden engine was 1999 VT series 1

What engine would that be? Surely not the Mexican 5 litre was it?

[Jim Goose]

Camira: Aussie (? - was it unique?) small car.

No it wasnt... based on an opel or vaxhaull design (The JB was, but the later versions werent found in europe)

Gemini was the same... based on a euro design.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

OK, I'm going to quickly jot down the Australian Engineering points for both respective companies that I can remember, not worrying about ownership in a > 95% foreign-owned country like Australia is.

Holden:
Styling of early models uniquely Australian, US oversight
Red engines 1964 - Australian developed, similar to Chevy but indigenous design
253 and 308 V8 - Australian design.
1960's Chevy Impalas locally assembled.
LC Torana - Australian design vastly modified from Opel (?) HB Torana, indigenous engines and engineering
HK-T-G: Australian design, Aussie motors for the first time when 253/308 are offered with the HT. HK Monaro is first truly Aussie Coupe by the big three. Long wheel base Brougham designed but is basically a Premier with a longer boot and Fairlane outsells it comfortably.
HQ-WB Fully Australian engineered partial chassis/monocoque, all Australian engines, this Ladies and Gentleman was their absolute 'peak' in 'Australianness'. Includes Statesman LWB, Australia's 1 tonner, Ute, Van wagon. 'Overlander' versions are engineered by a Tassie company.
LH Torana Australian.
VB Commodore - not Australian. Modified from Opel Commodore/Rekord, carries over 'red' engines with horrid ADR27A 'solution'. Major mistake in downsizing when motors not changed and consumption is very nearly equal.
VC Commodore - not, but uses Australian 'blue' engines. 4 cyl Commodore backfires.
Camira: Aussie (? - was it unique?) small car.
VH Commorore - not, end of 253 V8
VK Commodore - 'black engines' including EFI are last Aussie Holden 6.
VL - German based body, Nissan 6. Still has Holden 308/304 V8. Turbo version of Nissan 6 becomes a cult vehicle.
VN - Panic re-engineering and widening of Opel, panic inclusion of Buick V6
VP - similar. VG ute marks return of the missed Holden ute, gone since WB. VQ Statesman returns, again missed since WB.
VR - Restyle of VN.
VS - Ecotec motor released, similar to Buick but an evolution of this. Not sure if redesign is all Holden, or is shared in other GM products.
VT - Larger body of Opel/Vauxhall, adapted for Australian conditions. Holden finally regains the full size that HQ-WB had and sells. IRS under engineered compared to Ford. All-Aussie 308 V8 dies out in favour of LS1 Chev in 2000. In a wonderful move, the Monaro is reborn to much accolade.
Vectra - midsize FWD assembled at this time.
VX - Similar to VT, more refined.
VY - Sheet metal changes. Similar. Panel van fibreglass conversion offered for ute (rare). A range of derivatives are creatively sprung off the V platform by Peter Hannenberger: 1 tonner ute, Cross Trac AWD on this and the 'Crewman' dual cab ute, the Adventra wagon. These are pretty unique, and would work well in an Aussie car market that is not so open and filled with specialist 'niche' vehicles for every niche.
VZ - introduction of 3.6L HFV6. This is a world GM engine? Monaro via HSV goes AWD!
VE - Holden goes All-Australian, for the first time in Commodore history. All Australian designed body/platform. V8's imported, 6's assembled here (I think the blocks are imported?). Aussie station wagon continues as Sportwagon and unlike the Ford it is fully marketed. Development of 'SIDI' motors shared with GM USA. W427 HSV.
Cruze: local assembly of small car in sedan and hatch, petrol and diesel powertrains and quoted as 25% local content. It's a start!





Ford:
Zephyr was locally assembled model, similar to previous models built since 1925. A more informed historian might want to expand here.
1960's Fairlanes and Galaxies locally assembled.
Falcon was US competitor to Beetle on release, we got the XK and it's family of US 'Falcon 6'. Australian sedan, wagon, ute and panel van are included, and the ute is unique.
XL - Australian input on suspension, body work.
XM - More Australian input on body work
XP - Uses Mercury Comet front. Massive increases in durability engineered by Ford Australia and highlighted by the 70,000 mile torture test at the You Yangs
XR - US Falcon with Windsor V8
ZA Fairlane - Ford Australia creates its own long wheelbase luxury car using Falcon parts. Replaces Galaxie US design and is an instant hit. Uses Falcon 6 and imported V8, but follows all Falcon changes (so it gets more Australian as time goes on...)
XT - engine increases. With the 6, the Australian team raise the deck height by 1" and create a unique Aussie 6 in the 188/221. No American equivalent.
XW - Australian input in styling, 6's are Aussie modified
XY - Fully Australian designed 200/250 (*NOT the same as US motors of same displacement*) Cleveland V8's initially imported. Very first ever Aussie 4x4 ute by a mass manufacturer. Pity it didn't continue.
XA - Fully Australian designed body. Aussie made Cleveland V8s in Geelong. The Falcon becomes All Australian. Massive P4 and P6 LTD released, huge 120" wheelbase. Aimed as competitor to luxury sedans, this is the only time an Aussie company really did a separate, larger than LWB vehicle itself. Also Falcon Coupe and Landau introduced. Proves to be last Falcon coupe by Ford.
Cortina: Assembled in this time, fitted with Aussie 250 even!
XB - ditto to XA, all Australian design. Falcon takes out 'top selling car' title, as Bill Bourke predicted with launch of XW!
XC -ditto. Aussie inline 6 given 'Cross Flow'.
XD - 2nd Fully Australian Falcon generation. All Aussie design and engineering, with a look (but no commonality) with European Granada. Inline 6 gets a Honda-built alloy head however.
XE - Australian, gets Aussie watts link rear suspension. No more V8's. Aussie 6 gets EFI.
Laser (and Meteor?) assembled in this time.
XF - Australian. Ford destroys GM-H in sales, the XF is the pinnacle of Falcon's dominance in the 1980s. The 3.3L six with 5 speed transmission works out to be more economical than the smaller, Commodore competitor! This "we did it our way" spirit of engineering continues at Ford to this day.
EA - 3rd generation Fully Australian Falcon, powered by Aussie inline 6. The design is described as one of the best looking large sedans in the world, and is penned by Aussies. Ute/Van continues as XF. Aussie 6 gets SOHC, comes in 3.9 and (rare) 3.2L versions.
EB - Australian, US Windsor V8 makes a return. Aussie partner Tickford begins modifying Falcons with performance parts, engineers Aussie 6 for 'XR6' variants. Aussie 6 resized at 4.0L. Ute modified into XG and uses, basically, an EB front end (mechanically).
ED - Australian. XR6 wagon released. A golden age for wagon lovers.
EF - Australian, substantial reskin. Aussie 6 is evolved further. Last XR6 wagon dammit!
EL - Australian.
XH - last XD based ute, Last Australian Panel Van.
AU - 4th Fully Australian generation Falcon. Polarising styling hides a Unique Aussie IRS (huge and tough), Aussie inline 6 is substantially rebuilt into 'Intech' motor- VCT version is unique and developed by Tickford/Jaguar. BHP bake hardened steel body - how Aussie is that?! More Australian design and content than any Holden, ever. Dedicated LPG motor created in a first. Re-introduction of a modern Aussie Ford ute sees the 1 tonner reborn as well! Tickford begins hand assembling V8's which see their way into the XR8. Monster 5.6L Stoker Windsor unique to Australia and the last Tickford motor. The AU - the most Australian Falcon in design and content ever?
BA - Australian redesign of AU. Substantially modified. Aussie 6 gets DOHC, US Windsor V8 replaced by Aussie 'mix' of 5.4L Truck block with DOHC heads, also an imported 3V version exists for road cars. RTV hi-ride ute created, which is unique. GT reborn as an FPV. Aussie 6 is turbocharged and rewrites the performance landscape.
SX Territory - Fully Australian AWD and RWD wagon using Falcon 6.
BF/SY - inline 6 mated to German 6 speed ZF gearbox (made in Mex? Germany?) Aussie Falcon wagon bites the bullet, just before wagon segment takes off. Fairlane bows out.
FG - 5th generation design of Australian Falcon. FPV creates supercharged 5.0 V8 as a wholly Australian programme. Soon to come, LILPG and Ecoboost turbo 4cyl...
2011- New SZ Territory updates Aussie Crossover Wagon. First Aussie fitting of a diesel in a long time.

I get the sense that for both Manufacturers part sourcing has become increasingly foreign in the last decade as the onslaught of Chinese cheap parts has been felt, but in terms of engineering it's no contest - Falcon is more Australian by a country mile since 1984. In truth, both companies' history is one of taking ideas from offshore and 'Australianising' them over time. Every now and then they are able to engineer something 'fully Australian'. Long may it continue.

WELL DONE fantastic time line.

[mik]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

obviously if it was a shortened (in my words) 46 chev, it could not have shared the exact same chassis. in my words though, my xb is not australian. no matter what anyone tries to tell me, it is still a cross between a torino and mustang. the basic shape of the 48-215 was already there - maybe as a vauxhall, but most definately as a chev. therefore in my view it is not australian





from what i have heard about them from people who drove them when they were younger, they were pieces of crap. the only reason people bought them was everything else was imported. 1948 was the last year of clam shell guards, yet holden thought australians are behind the times, we will supply them for the next 9 years. they won't know the difference - and they didn't

mmm i dunno ...........i think they got worse after the 1st holden, the fb/ek holden was a doosey

[greenfoam]

In the psyche of the average Australian Holden is the only local car company. Unfortunately for everyone else that's where the question ends. The actual truth is that almost all the models of every car either has made was sold in another country as something else.

"HQ-WB Fully Australian engineered partial chassis/monocoque, all Australian engines, this Ladies and Gentleman was their absolute 'peak' in 'Australianness'."
That's not true, The HQ holden is a F body Chev, The HK-G is also a Chev with a new body. Look at the early Camaro's they are almost identical beneath the bodys.

The early Falcon it's almost identical to the US version. Even the Magna 380 is 100% identical as the US version

[JG34JA]

Thanks guys for the little corrections - that was all off the top of my head after years of reading and learning Aussie motor history.

Laser 81 - fascinating point about the heavier gauge steel. 1960's Valiants have some pretty thick steel in them, too.

LTD - Mexican 5 litre, tell me more? Victorian Mexican? Or imported?

Jim Goose, cheers I had a suspicion the Camira was a global car.

[JG34JA]

Greenfoam, HQ is an F body Chev?

Wow, is that true? I always thought the design was all Aussie, and everything I researched said the same thing. Your source?

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

Between 1919 and 1925 (when Ford built the Geelong plant), Holden Motor Body Builders (HMBB) was building car bodys for Ford... until 1931 when it merged with GM to become GM-H.

They are actually part of the reason ford are building cars here. After a trip here Henry Ford didn't want his company name on the substandard products that the coach builders were making. The first one that was named was Holden from Adelaide among others.From then on Ford built Fords in Australia

[vztrt]

Ford cause of the creation of the ute and now the Territory.

[HEMI-RODS]

Ford Cause it's blue and there is more Blue than red on our Flag.

[RAPID_BA]

Both are assembled in australia, Ill give both the aussie nod.

As opposed to where the parts are sourced, much of a muchness I say, both aussie cars. Im just glad the VN V6 jackhammer engine wasnt australian built motor. Felt like holding onto a jackhammer when taking off from a standing start.

But then again it did run away from the equivalent aussie made EA Falcon 3.9 litre.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

obviously if it was a shortened (in my words) 46 chev, it could not have shared the exact same chassis. in my words though, my xb is not australian. no matter what anyone tries to tell me, it is still a cross between a torino and mustang. the basic shape of the 48-215 was already there - maybe as a vauxhall, but most definately as a chev. therefore in my view it is not australian


from what i have heard about them from people who drove them when they were younger, they were pieces of crap. the only reason people bought them was everything else was imported. 1948 was the last year of clam shell guards, yet holden thought australians are behind the times, we will supply them for the next 9 years. they won't know the difference - and they didn't

They sold better than the Ford coupes did.
They had the Aerobuilt body. could handle Aus rough roads. a Torquey six.
That didnt consume too much either.

[Road_Warrior]

Geoff Polites said once that Ford Australia "...was more Australian than General Motors (Holden)" a bold claim, yet no one disagreed with him. At its peak I think the BA Falcon had the most locally made content of any car being built here at the time. 60% I think it was. Obviously earlier ones would have had more. But it was still heaps more than the Commodore.

For me its a no brainer. The Falcon and Ford Australia are true blue.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by MethodX

They sold better than the Ford coupes did.
They had the Aerobuilt body. could handle Aus rough roads. a Torquey six.
That didnt consume too much either.

they sold better than the 2 door monaro did too - what does that have to do with it

they sold because there was no other locally made option - the fact it is locally made does not make the company or the car australian. and from what i have been told by someone who had them first hand and then switched to the blue side for reasons i have already stated, they were absolute pos'

the only touque that comes from the red side is normally bs anyway - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Y-2vlOegI
i guess the americans copied this one from holden too did they

[302 XC]

The first 3 prototype 48-215 (FX) holdens were produced o/s
And regoed here as chevs

The 48-215 was always promoted as "Australias own"
But the manufacture name Holden goes along way back than 1948

[1TUFFUTE]

[QUOTE=phillyc]Ford Motor Co Australia have been producing vehicles in Australia since 1925. Originally from fully imported kits, then gradually increased the local content. There has been several Falcon generations which were wholly Australian designed.

Ford Aus have been building cars in Australia for about 25 years longer than GMHolden have.
this sums it up with the important stuff covered i feel...