Carbon Tax.Its a BIG Con!!!

[chevypower]

There seems to only be extremism represented on this topic.
1. The people who only see pollution as "man made global warming" which they believe is not real, and pollution has zero effect otherwise.
2. The people who think that if we don't all buy a Prius tomorrow, then the world is going to end in Dec 2012.

Are there any sensible people still left in this world?

[Thornie]

It's more the fact of the goverment charging people to pollute other than finding a proper solution. The industry i work consumes alot of power and we work everyday on reducing our emissions we run on even stricter licencing agreements with derm that are only getting stricter in the next few years. This tax will proberly kill our industry in australia and were does that leave thousands of us out on our asses unemployed

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I guess they covered that when they changed the propaganda from Global Warming to Climate Change.

Yes Ben, very popular rhetoric from the denialists that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

The two expressions have always been in use, scientists generally referring to climate change. But do you understand the connection?, climate change is a result of global warming.

Of course if you listen to Alan Jones/ Andrew Bolt commentaries they will tell you that climate change is being used as the world is no longer warming.

Ive yet to see a government or institution that even 20 years ago, talked about a "global warming" policy, but dont let that stop the denialist rhetoric.

The main thrust by many to refer to climate change is that many out there are so simple that when they hear the term "global warming" they think, "oh a couple of degrees warmer, that will be nice", whereas changes to climate can conjure up in even the most simple that the changes may not be all good.

Originally Posted by Ben73

Climate change is real.... Its called the earths natural cycle. One day the earth will begin to cool again.

Unfortunately Ben, no one scientist on the planet has been able to produce any evidence of any natural cycle or phenomenon that explains the warming we are seeing at this time. (no we are not experiencing extra solar activity). The best science rests with it is the 40% increase in co2 that man has put up there.
But if you know better as to what natural phenomenon is causing it now that the world's best have overlooked, please let the world know, then we can all get back to business as usual

[jandj]

Can some1 please explain to me how there are going to work out, how much carbon each company is going to emit.

[Charliewool]

Sudszy, I reckon you're a "plant" on here.... A Julia stooge?
We have absolutely NO idea of who you are, where you're from, what age group, or what you do for a quid...
Come on.. Tell us all? Who the bloody hell ARE YOU?
What qualifies you to push your high and mighty, self-righteous agenda down our throats anonymously??

[BAxtER]

Have only read the first page of this thread, so i will put my 2cents on from there.

If global warming was a real issue, how is a tax...say on fuel going to stop me using less fuel?
If for example i am a person who lives in an eastern suburb of melbourne with no public transport ...i dunno lets say (endeavour hills) The only way to get to work is the monash. Charging me $2 a lire for fuel instead of $1.30 isnt going to reduce my "carbon output" i still have to get to work somehow, to somehow cover the cost as well of higher groceries thnaks to te increase in transport costs.

The government then wastes billions a year afghainstan. foreign aid increases, and other gravy train approvals to help their buddies. Instead maybe ...just maybe, many homes can have installed with a subsidy from that money stand alone power kits by companies such as Redflow. Stand alone power, which means your totally off the grid, your helping hard working families wipe off a electricity bill for the rest of their lives. Your helping the so called "carbon footprint".

But no...instead lets tax people and make their lives more of a misery, and thats a Labor Government...

[Dan_1987]

Hey Sudszy, you're entitled to your opinion and you're allowed to say what you think about this (even on FordForums..)
But I just thought I'd let you know there's alot more to it then the seven papers you've read being proponents of anthropogenic climate change. We still ultimately have ZERO proof that CO2 is causing short term global temperature fluctuations. They could have, dare I say it, something to do with the big ball of fusing hydrogen gas one billion times the siZe of the earth only 8 light minutes away. But who knows.
In regard to the actual topic: planting more trees and stopping the over destruction of our oceans would do more to reduce the worlds co2 ppm than Australia's 20million people using about 10% less fossil fuels than the do currently. But again, changing co2 amounts might not even affect temp. So.

Perhaps it'd be best if you stopped hoodwinking people in here. We all ultimately are just regular people who likes fords. Why are you here exactly? What do you hope to achieve by all this? I don't mean this in malice, I'm just asking mate.

[Blue_XR]

Sudszy, I have made my point clear I feel on this subject so I won't bother repeating myself on what I think of man made climate change. You also seem to be part of the ever decreasing minority on the subject. Have you had a look at the latest polls?

However, you are all for this new tax that will "supposedly" help rid Australia's Carbon footprint. This tax is nothing more that to get the government out of the mess it has created by sending us into debt. It will also be used as funding for the UN. The government has come out and said this will help all Australians. How about the millions, perhaps billions that will be sent overseas. Have a look at the following links:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-poor-nations/

http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=48646

There are many more articles on the subject. If this tax is to come in place, they have no right handing this money to the corrupt UN.

[Polyal]

I had no idea about the 10% to the UN...what the heck? Money for developing countries to combat climate change you cant be serious!

Ive never really felt the urge to protest something before, but there is always a first...this is a complete joke.

I think its a smart thing to look at reducing our emissions, I dont think anyone would disagree with that, but you cant sweep in changes to a system that has been around for 100 years. It takes time to implement change and a gradual process would seem to be the logical way to go about it.

And you certainly cannot implement a tax system that is based on the theory of reducing emissions when it actually wont reduce any Co2 et al.

To me it seems Julia knows she is a goner, so shes trying to stamp her name on something...

[Dan_1987]

Blue_XR,
very interesting links mate, had no idea 10% of it was going towards a UN.

I really hope the Australian people don't let this happen and vote out Labor as soon as they get the chance.
And hopefully after than, the more environmentally concious people amongst us can get back to supporting causes that really make a difference, like stopping other, more observed, understood, and proven forms of pollution and destruction of the natural world.

[Shelby1965]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Sudszy, I reckon you're a "plant" on here.... A Julia stooge?
We have absolutely NO idea of who you are, where you're from, what age group, or what you do for a quid...
Come on.. Tell us all? Who the bloody hell ARE YOU?
What qualifies you to push your high and mighty, self-righteous agenda down our throats anonymously??

BINGO!!!!...Well one only has to look at Sudszys post history to ascertain where ones interests are on here!!!!

Do you even own a car ??.... Ford?? .....a Prius??

.....or is it actually a recumbent bike with a big orange flag on it???

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

This tax will proberly kill our industry in australia and were does that leave thousands of us

Don't worry your jobs will be safely filled in China. How many here have been to Beijing? I was there one weekend when I could barely see 100 metres in front of me because of the yellow fog. I needed to travel during the week to a second tier manufacturing city well into the interior of China for business, I won't even tell you about the open industry I saw on the side walks etc., but when I got back to Beijing the following weekend I realised that there were mountains in the distance.

That was not the worst of it either. For years we have been participating in Gov regulated work safe practices, because no one should be hurt maimed or killed at work, but to the point where companies and business alike are so over regulated with the extra expence of work cover and safe practice programs etc. These costs, although necessary, come as an extra burden to our Australian manufacturing and transport industries and appear eventually as a cost to the consumer (Again I cant stress how important this is). However, in China I saw basic things like people using angle grinders without eye protection to very serious and inexcusable practices like presses that need to have the parts placed into them by hand but had foot pedals to operate them with no safety guarding what so ever. On the freeways I saw trucks carrying many lengths of rebar that were almost touching the road behind them as they chugged black smoke out along the way to their intended destination. Our Curtsey car was regularly sitting at 180 kph around these trucks in a 110 zone, so were many other cars as well. So at this stage, I can see no reason why they can be trusted to do the right thing.

A lot of our manufacturing jobs have moved to this region because it is too expensive to maintain them in Australia with the extra costs that need to be factored in to our jobs compared to the rest of the developing nations. We don't complain because we still buy this stuff cheaper now that when we did 20 years ago when they were made in Australia and we cannot see either the unsafe work practices or the air pollution attached to these consumables either. And we only seem to complain about the loss if industry in this country after it has gone so it doesn't matter anyway.

If this Gov goes ahead with this scheme (read tax) sure we will be amongst world leaders much the same as we have been that has lead to the depletion of real manufacturing jobs in the past, and it will only end up being another tax or burden on an already struggling manufacturing and transport industry in this country, it is as simple as that. We do not play on a level playing field now so how many more imbalances do we need to or more importantly, can we endure?

Some people wont be happy until all our jobs have been moved off shore, but the irony is the more jobs that do ultimately go, the worse the problem will become as these underperforming human rights and environmentally unfriendly countries will have it all to themselves. Why can't we demand that these countries that our jobs are going to behave the same before we strangle what life we have left in our own job sector?

Bud Bud

[landau460]

Originally Posted by FTE

If (and thats a BIG if) climate change was infact sped up by us the government would simply stop or phase out major contributing factors that cause it sooner rather than later. There was no debate or tax imposed when there was a "hole in the ozone layer". They simply banned the use of CFC's by a certain date that caused it (1993 or 94 from memory).

Now today the government say burning coal (which is carbon) is a problem and needs to be taxed to reduce carbon footprint, but at the same time they have approved several new coal deposits to be mined in Qld for exporting around the world.
This tells me they aren't serious about the climate change issue as approving more mines for coal export pretty much changes nothing in the total carbon emissions except increase it.

I think the smarter way would be NOT to approve anymore coal mines australia wide until one actually closes. Plus all new homes to have solar power for more than just water heating brought in by a date like 2012, and stop focusing on making ****ant small fuel efficient cars more fuel efficient and energy efficient. Its a lot of money going no where for no reason except to make feeble minded people think they are doing good just by driving a car. If your that worried by the carbon pollution stop driving and ride

Agreed this proves they are not serious with this climate change crap and are very serious bout ripping tax payers off

[MAD]

No two ways about it, if Australia implements this new tax the net result to the worlds production of CO2 will be a big fat ZERO.

Old article, but still very relevant...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

[|||]

man this political thread lasted a while.

[TheSneakiness]

Sudszy, you sure you aren't one of the people I mentioned here?

[Dan_1987]

can we talk about fords being sick again please?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Look, just for you, I’m doing my bit to combat rising sea levels. I’m refusing to buy a boat. That’ll fix everything.

That's Silly.... This is the real reason for rising sea levels, based on the findings of some old Greek bloke. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._seacargo.html
"Every year, more than 10,000 containers fall overboard"

And that was back in 2001.

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Sudszy, I reckon you're a "plant" on here.... A Julia stooge?
We have absolutely NO idea of who you are, where you're from, what age group, or what you do for a quid...
Come on.. Tell us all? Who the bloody hell ARE YOU?
What qualifies you to push your high and mighty, self-righteous agenda down our throats anonymously??

The reply would probably be....

(In his best James Bond voice) "If I told you, I'd have to kill you!"

[landau460]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Yes Ben, very popular rhetoric from the denialists that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

The two expressions have always been in use, scientists generally referring to climate change. But do you understand the connection?, climate change is a result of global warming.

Of course if you listen to Alan Jones/ Andrew Bolt commentaries they will tell you that climate change is being used as the world is no longer warming.

Ive yet to see a government or institution that even 20 years ago, talked about a "global warming" policy, but dont let that stop the denialist rhetoric.

The main thrust by many to refer to climate change is that many out there are so simple that when they hear the term "global warming" they think, "oh a couple of degrees warmer, that will be nice", whereas changes to climate can conjure up in even the most simple that the changes may not be all good.


Unfortunately Ben, no one scientist on the planet has been able to produce any evidence of any natural cycle or phenomenon that explains the warming we are seeing at this time. (no we are not experiencing extra solar activity). The best science rests with it is the 40% increase in co2 that man has put up there.
But if you know better as to what natural phenomenon is causing it now that the world's best have overlooked, please let the world know, then we can all get back to business as usual

And sudzy no one scientist has 100% proof about global warming/climate change what ever you want to call it but they want to take my money on their theory? lol you could take this discussion for or against but they still want my money their only changing the name inwhich to take it with. Come on sudzy gimme real proof.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Yes Ben, very popular rhetoric from the denialists that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

The two expressions have always been in use, scientists generally referring to climate change. But do you understand the connection?, climate change is a result of global warming.

Of course if you listen to Alan Jones/ Andrew Bolt commentaries they will tell you that climate change is being used as the world is no longer warming.

Ive yet to see a government or institution that even 20 years ago, talked about a "global warming" policy, but dont let that stop the denialist rhetoric.

The main thrust by many to refer to climate change is that many out there are so simple that when they hear the term "global warming" they think, "oh a couple of degrees warmer, that will be nice", whereas changes to climate can conjure up in even the most simple that the changes may not be all good.


Unfortunately Ben, no one scientist on the planet has been able to produce any evidence of any natural cycle or phenomenon that explains the warming we are seeing at this time. (no we are not experiencing extra solar activity). The best science rests with it is the 40% increase in co2 that man has put up there.
But if you know better as to what natural phenomenon is causing it now that the world's best have overlooked, please let the world know, then we can all get back to business as usual

I didn't just wake up one day and say "Climate change is not man made"

I used to believe all the crap the government and media said about climate change. I used to believe we are ruining the world. I remember when this guy in my school was talking about how it is a load of crap. Almost everyone else in the class, including me thought he was an idiot because in school and through the media we are told we are ruining the earth.
But then I decided to look it up myself. I used all different sources and from what evidence I found, I changed my opinion that it is not man made.

If you were a environmental scientist and the government hired you to research global warming and gave you millions of dollars in research grants, would you tell them what they want to hear? Of course you would.
That is why I trust the research of scientist who are not relying on a government paycheck.


Thing I find funny about the environuts is as soon as you tell them that you think global warming is natural and nothing but a hype, they basically put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and yell BLAH BLAH I CANT HEAR YOU I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG!!!

[Dr Jekkyl]

Originally Posted by Ben73

That is why I trust the research of scientist who are not relying on a government paycheck.

So who is funding these scientists you mention? They sure as hell aren't paying for it themselves.

Oh and while we are scientist-bashing, did you hear that cancer is just a government plot to fund Medicare? Not surprising though is it because the scientists researching it get their funding from the government.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

It's more the fact of the goverment charging people to pollute other than finding a proper solution. The industry i work consumes alot of power and we work everyday on reducing our emissions we run on even stricter licencing agreements with derm that are only getting stricter in the next few years. This tax will proberly kill our industry in australia and were does that leave thousands of us out on our asses unemployed

I have no doubt that in the time man has walked this earth we've done some damage, I dont know how much of either side of the climate change argument I beleive either. But one thing that baffels me is why a tax? as My learned freind Mr RaTTus has said taxing will most likely kill his industry, and I'm sure many others, why not rather than have a ALP fund raiser (or carbon tax if you will) why not issue tax brakes to green companys until there is a world carbon pricing scheme, IMHO this would incorage big poluters to work on ways of reducing there carbon impact, then once there is a world cabon price scheme the tax brakes stop and we switch to the world system, the big end wins becasue it has been able to use tax brakes for R&D to lessen its impact and if its doen this well wont have as bigger bill when the carbon price scheme is set up, this is a win for the enviroment as the company is changing its way as it will be benifiting its bottom line and still keeping the price of its product to the end user at a competitive level

if the complay isnt interested then it still pays the normal current taxing systems and once carbon pricing is set up on a world scale it still suffers so there is no benifit in not trying to change

now I am puting in a mechanisum to my post, if you dissagree and have a valid argument please do so, if you just want to poke at my dodgy spelling come back when you have a valid argument

thank you

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Ben73

If you were a environmental scientist and the government hired you to research global warming and gave you millions of dollars in research grants, would you tell them what they want to hear? Of course you would.
That is why I trust the research of scientist who are not relying on a government paycheck.

Got it in one .

Originally Posted by Dr Jekkyl

So who is funding these scientists you mention? They sure as hell aren't paying for it themselves.

Oh and while we are scientist-bashing, did you hear that cancer is just a government plot to fund Medicare? Not surprising though is it because the scientists researching it get their funding from the government.

Perhaps you should cut back on the Red Cordial, no one is 'Scientist bashing'

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Dr Jekkyl

Oh and while we are scientist-bashing, did you hear that cancer is just a government plot to fund Medicare? Not surprising though is it because the scientists researching it get their funding from the government.

Stupidest comparison of the year. .

Everyone knows someone who is affected with cancer in some way. Cancer is a prove medical condition that I'm sure 99% of people would agree with.

Global warming is not proven. Its has as much evidence denying it then it has supporting it.

No one is scientist bashing.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Shelby1965

BINGO!!!!...Well one only has to look at Sudszys post history to ascertain where ones interests are on here!!!!

Do you even own a car ??.... Ford?? .....a Prius??

.....or is it actually a recumbent bike with a big orange flag on it???

I think he's goneski?
Either parliament has resummed sitting or he has a lecture to deliver?

[cheap]

Here is a link which explains the inner (what Gillard and Co won't tell you about) working of the CO2 Tax and why the CO2 tax is a con.

http://www.accessmymind.info/?p=23

Sudszy (and Co), go for it! I would be disappointed if you didn't whip yourself into a prolonged morbid hysteria nitpicking this assessment of the CO2 tax.

Simple people (like me) can't wait for more of your progressive views on how this tax will save the planet, don't let us down.

Have a nice day.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Hope your job doesnt have anything to do with numbers....380ppm = 0.038%, you are only out by a factor of 100.

How much is man made? (from releasing fossiled carbon into the biosphere?), 40%.

Hope your job doesn't rely on being accurate? 40%? try 3% is man made according to chicken little alarmist Professor Bob Carter (WHO IS IN THE DIRECT PAY OF BIG GOVERNMENT AT FLANNO'S CARBON INSTITUTE); yep, even Flim Flannery is on record saying it too (amongst his claim the seas will rise by 100 meters next century).

Best you **** off back to getup, and ask Simon Shiekyourmummy who is in the minority now after the Galaxy poll death blow delivered to the warmenista twats in the pay of BIG GOVENMENT and other socialist organisations.

BTW, how's the egg on your faces with not only Combet and Rudd buying waterfront properties in the last month whilst telling us the seas are rising and will kill us all, but Now Cate Blanchett has bought a property on the water in Vanuatu (she'll obviously swim there as flying emits carbon hey Cate?) How's that working out for your lot?

Anyway I digress, not long now until us "bogans and rednecks" (as we've been labelled) take to the streets with pitchforks and are baying for the blood of the self appointed intelligentsia (ie dumb *****, gullible idiots etc etc) who so brazenly have promoted and fallen for this latest cult.

[SB076]

The thing I dont understand is what they hope to accomplish from a carbon tax? As others have said, our industry will simply move offshore (pollution levels will actually increase as there will be more goods freighted around the world) Our power companies will continue as they have in the past, we cant import power and if the price goes up, we all have to accept it, this will make us less competitive than we are now. China pays roughtly $0.03 per kwH, USA pays approx. $0.10 per Kwh and we pay $0.20 per Kwh

[BA GT-HO]

So instead of us doing the usual Aussie thing (nothing) is there an anti carbon tax protest planned? I've never protested about anything but this has me furious.

Bud bud, I too have been to Asia in a manufacturing role and what I saw was beyond words sometimes. The pollution, the dangerous practices and disregard for the environment was at times amazing. Maybe sone pro carbon people need to go out into the real world.

[BA GT-HO]

Errr I can see like 10 posts the same by me, something went horribly wrong!