Take a moment to read this

[DBourne]

Hi All,

Sorry to post a thread which is a bit of a downer.

Over the weekend my dad told me about a fatal accident that happened close to our house. Didn't think too much of it until I later found out I went to school with the woman who died. Below is the facebook tribute page to her.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/camero...50330313282107

The long and short of it is that Catherine was 24, had a loving husband, daughter and family. During her normal drive to work a 20 year old male lost control of his car which resulted in him hitting a median strip, getting airborne and slamming in to her car.

A rush of blood to the head, a moment of stupidity and a family's life is turned upside down.

Whilst I know there are plenty of us on here (including me) who sometimes enjoy the power available to them when driving, I pleed with you to take a moment to consider what COULD go wrong. You never know when the moment will come where your ambition overtakes your ability until it is too late.

RIP Catherine, and thanks for reading.

Dave.

[wulos]

Condolences on the loss of someone you knew.
Unfortunately it usually takes an incident such as this for drivers to realise that whilst they may believe themselves perfect drivers, we are all subject to the laws of physics, and, somewhere, somehow, we will all eventually run out of talent. Let us all hope / pray that when it does, nothing comes to harm, let alone, that be another road user.

*Don't fool yourselves people - these crashes DO occur.*

[FGII-XR6]

We have probably all done something stupid on the road and been lucky to avoid a tragedy such as this. My condolences to the family and hoping the driver at least learnt his lesson and becomes a better (safer) driver.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by wulos

Condolences on the loss of someone you knew.
Unfortunately it usually takes an incident such as this for drivers to realise that whilst they may believe themselves perfect drivers, we are all subject to the laws of physics, and, somewhere, somehow, we will all eventually run out of talent. Let us all hope / pray that when it does, nothing comes to harm, let alone, that be another road user.

*Don't fool yourselves people - these crashes DO occur.*

...+1

[trippytaka]

It's heavy, but a lesson we'd all do well to take in.

[bester]

Very sad indeed,she was still so young. My thoughts are with the family. RIP Catherine!

[The Yeti]

Yea I saw this last week, and thought at the time I would hate to be the husband that has just lost his wife and now has to tell the kids, such a shame RIP Catherine

[ltd]

Sorry, but there needs to be consequences of this kind of thing. The idiot should be getting 20 years, and he should be disqualified from driving for another 20 years. He took a young life, deprived a daughter of her mother and a husband of his wife. Hopefully, after word that some little **** got 20 years, others may be discouraged from being so dangerous.
Think I'm being extreme? Well how's this for a precedent; after Bilal Skaf was convicted of gang rape and sentenced to 55 years, the almost "rite of passage" gang raping of Australian women was in quick decline.
Sounds draconian but it does work.

[tagz_orange]

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry, but there needs to be consequences of this kind of thing. The idiot should be getting 20 years, and he should be disqualified from driving for another 20 years. He took a young life, deprived a daughter of her mother and a husband of his wife. Hopefully, after word that some little **** got 20 years, others may be discouraged from being so dangerous.
Think I'm being extreme? Well how's this for a precedent; after Bilal Skaf was convicted of gang rape and sentenced to 55 years, the almost "rite of passage" gang raping of Australian women was in quick decline.
Sounds draconian but it does work.

i agree completly you take someones life why do u deserve to live yours the way you want for doing something stupid.. bigger consequences the less it will happen

[wulos]

LTD - you are talking about two completely different crimes here. I would argue that the Bilal Skaf case is much more of an anomaly, rather then simply a part of rite of passage, type affair.
Being a hoon, is far more common accepted(as abhorent as the results of getting it wrong are) then taking part in a gang rape. As such a massive sentence would do little to adjust the mentality, especially amongst young / inexperienced / bulletproof teenagers.
Telling a teenager they will go to 10 years, or 100 years for killing someone will have little effect. The belief being that it simply won't happen to them anyway.

[Road Games]

And the wowsers have appeared already... Spot on wulos!

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by wulos

Telling a teenager they will go to 10 years, or 100 years for killing someone will have little effect. The belief being that it simply won't happen to them anyway.

But it will only take one for the judiciary system to actually lock up for the offence.

Then others will sit up and take notice.

There has to be some serious deterrent, which at the moment there really isn't one with.

[WMD351]

Condolences.
A tragedy for all involved, including the young bloke.

[Bucknaked]

Condolences to the family and friends. Chin up Dave. I really hate to hear when someone has everything to live for and offer so much is killed by someone who has nothing to offer. It breaks your heart.

[DJM83]

Thoughts are with you Dave, these things are never easy mate. Chin up
RIP Catherine

[munkky]

my hart gose out to the family. Drivd safe people

[wulos]

No amount of punishment will bring back the innocents effected by this tragedy.

A quick search online shows the following.
"The maximum penalty for the offence of dangerous driving causing death is 10 years imprisonment. If the offence is aggravated the maximum penalty is 14 years goal."

10-14 years imprisonment is not an insignificant deterent in my eyes.

Given the circumstances, of an unlicenced / suspended driver, driving a vehicle that he would have been prohibited from driving anyways, I would expect that there will be a hefty sentence imposed.

Apologies on the arguments being raised here over punishments Dave.

I sincerely hope that this thread can return to discussing the need for drivers to take care on the roads.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by wulos

Condolences on the loss of someone you knew.
Unfortunately it usually takes an incident such as this for drivers to realise that whilst they may believe themselves perfect drivers, we are all subject to the laws of physics, and, somewhere, somehow, we will all eventually run out of talent. Let us all hope / pray that when it does, nothing comes to harm, let alone, that be another road user.

*Don't fool yourselves people - these crashes DO occur.*

Amen... I had a long rethink of my driving habbits when a friend of ours died earlier this year. He was in the right on a back country road in NZ and got cleaned up at an intersection.

Read the tribute page and I just don't have words...

[SEZ213]

Really sorry to hear that Bourney. condolences to the family, yet another tragedy that just shouldn't have happened. I read the tribute page and completely agree with her husbands comments.

What Wulos said is right though, no jail sentence as a deterrent will work, it is unfortunately a phase that all young people have the potential to undertake (risk taking that is). The potential consequences are, unfortunately far from their minds when doing it, and innocent people suffer as a result.

Thinking of ya buddy, RIP Catherine.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry, but there needs to be consequences of this kind of thing. The idiot should be getting 20 years, and he should be disqualified from driving for another 20 years. He took a young life, deprived a daughter of her mother and a husband of his wife. Hopefully, after word that some little **** got 20 years, others may be discouraged from being so dangerous.
Think I'm being extreme? Well how's this for a precedent; after Bilal Skaf was convicted of gang rape and sentenced to 55 years, the almost "rite of passage" gang raping of Australian women was in quick decline.
Sounds draconian but it does work.

These 2 situations are in no way related in 1 you have a young bloke breaking the law but not intending to do harm things go wrong and someone dies, yes it is tragic but his prospects for rehabilitation are good. A prison term would be expected but a lengthy term will only make an otherwise law abiding person a hardened criminal.
in the 2nd case you have a predator stalking young women in a brutal racially motivated attack that leaves the victim traumatised and often unable to sustain normal relationships. The attack was premeditated and an ongoing mindset, his prospects for rehabilitation are bleak and he is already a hardened habitual criminal

[zdcol71]

I have posted recently on the consequences of these accidents.
They are something we all hear about; we all have had contact with a "friend of a friend" who has been involved, yet when it touches us personally, it takes on a completely different perspective. It is real, and relevant, and the only way to make any sense, is to pass on the message, as best we can that there are consequences to our actions.
Sometimes the consequences of our actions don't mean much to some people......they are not around anymore to be aware of them.
I'm still here, but many are not, my condolences.

[Road Games]

Sensational post mate .. and my condolences as well Dave ...

[Franco Cozzo]

A 20 year old male with a suspended license, driving a manual V8 Commodore

He'd be a P plater no doubt? Whats he doing with a V8 Commodore anyway?

[uranium_death]

Very very sad.
We all feel terrible for the family. A massive loss for all involved. Beautiful young girl with a family.

I also feel for the male driver. Why? Because he's a stupid, idiotic and arrogant young man who clearly is not aware of the dangers of driving and clearly over-estimated his own ability, like so many young men (and people) do.
He has to also carry this for the rest of his life. Everybody makes mistakes.
He is clearly proof that the system does not work.
His family should also feel terrible not only for their son/nephew/brother/grandson etc., but they will also feel dreadful for the death that has occurred unjustly...

He will go to prison and receive councelling I am sure and have time to contemplate what he has done and I hope that he learns from it and when he comes out, is able to contribute positively through his terrible experience.

I hope a lot of people both young and old take note as it could be their family member that is involved in some way in future.

I certainly took a big note of it and I found myself greatly saddened. Terrible story...

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry, but there needs to be consequences of this kind of thing. The idiot should be getting 20 years, and he should be disqualified from driving for another 20 years. He took a young life, deprived a daughter of her mother and a husband of his wife. Hopefully, after word that some little **** got 20 years, others may be discouraged from being so dangerous.
Think I'm being extreme? Well how's this for a precedent; after Bilal Skaf was convicted of gang rape and sentenced to 55 years, the almost "rite of passage" gang raping of Australian women was in quick decline.
Sounds draconian but it does work.

Here here , until actions have consequences there is NO deterrent value whatsoever .

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by wulos

No amount of punishment will bring back the innocents effected by this tragedy.

A quick search online shows the following.
"The maximum penalty for the offence of dangerous driving causing death is 10 years imprisonment. If the offence is aggravated the maximum penalty is 14 years goal."

10-14 years imprisonment is not an insignificant deterent in my eyes.

Given the circumstances, of an unlicenced / suspended driver, driving a vehicle that he would have been prohibited from driving anyways, I would expect that there will be a hefty sentence imposed.

Apologies on the arguments being raised here over punishments Dave.

I sincerely hope that this thread can return to discussing the need for drivers to take care on the roads.

The problem is it doesnt matter if the penalty is 14 years or 24 for years these guys dont drive this way with the aim of hurting any one, so the penalty is irelivant education is the only way, you will still get the tossers, but if education is getting through to the magority your in with 1/2 a shot this guy I think with out any other knowlage but whats been in the paper is siad ******, but if we can instill apon some of the other tossers in training that theres a time and a place for driving like this and the public road isnt it than we as road uses have 1/2 a shot

[Meg's GT's]

Sadly, this woman worked with my cousin. As well as her family, friends etc being devastated so are her workmates.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by wulos

LTD - you are talking about two completely different crimes here. I would argue that the Bilal Skaf case is much more of an anomaly, rather then simply a part of rite of passage, type affair.
Being a hoon, is far more common accepted(as abhorent as the results of getting it wrong are) then taking part in a gang rape. As such a massive sentence would do little to adjust the mentality, especially amongst young / inexperienced / bulletproof teenagers.
Telling a teenager they will go to 10 years, or 100 years for killing someone will have little effect. The belief being that it simply won't happen to them anyway.

What I was getting at is that previously, in Sydney alone we were hearing weekly about gang rapes, and deals done with the DPP giving these people 3-7 year sentences. The trend continued and resultantly, we heard more and more about these cases. At the same time, Police officers I spoke to and knew in the Auburn command said that this crime was becoming more prevalent, and that amongst the youth it was the perceived as a mark of transition to a man. That was the opinion of the criminal psychologist who was brought in to analyse the increasing trend.
Now I know this is not in any way related to the act of stupidity, however, the result was.
In this case, an offender got 55 years for the same crime that was previously attracting 3-7 years. Once this was happened, the number of offences dropped overnight. This is what I'm relating to the crime of hooning occassioning death.

Similarly, if you look at from the standpoint of sentences given over the last 10-15 years and the snivelling libertarians calling for leniency, you can see a disturbing trend. As sentences in various crimes have become lenient, crime in those areas has flourished.
Seriously, remember 20 years ago hearing of a drive by shooting? A murder? It was very rare. Now, it's a daily occurrence. Previously, you'd be given a life sentence for murder with your file marked "never to be released". Now, it's considered unfortunate to get 10 years.
What about Pedophiles? Previously, they'd get anywhere from 25 years to life, now they get suspended sentences, and the amount of attempted abductions and crimes related to children is rapidly increasing.
I'm not being a wowser, I have seen the scum and filth at the coal face, I got out of it because I couldn't stand the myriad of BS from people who weren't interested in justice, but making a name for themselves. People who would happily lie in court to seek advantage, and some purely evil people get off on a technicality, only to offend again and destroy others' lives.

In this case, we have an ever increasing amount of reckless endangerment practiced by people who should know better, but aren't fearful enough of what may happen if something goes wrong. As recently as last year, we had people defending the bogan hoons who died running from police in a car they stole from Queanbeyan. Unbelievably, we had people defending the criminals by accusing the police (no one here on AFF was dumb enough to do that), but nonetheless, public anger at police was significant enough to warrant an enquiry.
This is a serious degradation of our society where police can't pursue criminals, and it's only going to get worse unless we do something as a society to stop it. We're far too passive and allow lawmakers to be lobbied by minorities. Then, lawmakers legislate and everyone wonders what happened.
I accept none of this will bring Catherine back, but I am hoping what is doled out to the ignorant fool responsible is significant enough to act as a deterrent to others.

[schultzie]

Sad to hear this happen. It is funny you say how one action can have a dire consequence. I Haven't had my xr8 for over 6 months and when i got it back i drove it a bit silly, Still nothing like some people on here, but one thing is for sure i dont want to hurt myself or any one else. that and seeing how much i have spent on the car i dont want to f that up either.

I will be selling the ute eventually these high powered cars just cant be enjoyed on the open road... give me my hilux any day ive had my fun being a hoon for the time being

[casabonka]

Sorry to hear Dave - not good to hear.
Least charges have been laid
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/la...bWwmYWxsPTE%3D

The issue is how often do we hear of people being caught driving whilst suspended - the penalties aren't harsh enough imo.