Ford's $2 Grand Prix

[fordv8!]

put this on prime time TV ford!!!!!!!!!!!!

[5.4 GT]

Nice one Ford!

[GASWAGON]

It kicks commodores ***.........enough said... lol!

[vztrt]

Showed the ad to the GF..her response was its a good ad especially for Ford.

[MAD]

I dont have sound at work, but it looks like agreat ad.
And about bloody time!! LPG is a great alternative, I dont know why people are so against it.

They would need to alter the ad so that it shows no 'racing' otherwise Harold will be on it like stink on **** and have the ad removed quicker than you can say "I bet Harold will be writing an email to the Advertising Standards Bureau to get this removed"

[jcxr]

As an indicator, my Prado on gas, costs me 14c per kilometer vs petrol at 26 per kilometer. Gas is the way to go, pitty we cant get as cheap as the japs get it.

[mrbaxr6t]

this is a great move by Ford and kudos to them its about time they tackled the "Falcons are thirsty" rhetoric leveled at it from competitors but thats not why I am posting the reason for my post is in response to some here saying that LPG is a fantastic alternative and its cheaper etc etc... I cannot comment on LPI as I have had no experience with it but the vapour delivered systems of not so long ago were terrible - one example was the EF I owned it was on LPG and was a fantastic car when it was working cheap to run and all that but the savings I was making on fuel I was spending (then some) replacing my air intake at $80 a pop from the wreckers one backfire and you on the side of the road trying to seal it well enough to limp home with 100mph tape, and whats worse was once it did it once it did it again not long after as the AFR was wrong in the intake, yes I concede that LPI shouldn't suffer these problems but LPG on EFI cars for me personally is still something I am avoiding as they are not cheaper to run when you factor in repairs and are more prone to breakdown due to backfiring. I tried many things to fix this car and stop it doing it (backfiring) and spent much hard earnt in the process and suffered many breakdowns so many infact I was carrying a complete air intake replacement in the boot, sadly this is where the stigma around LPG comes from. Heres hoping LPI is as reliable as what petrol is and air intakes dont explode at the worst possible time e.g. 3 am in a hailstorm, I still remember that.

[Bobman]

As far as backfires go, this has been a non-issue since VSI / SGI / Liquid aftermarket and the LPi system.

However, you will find backfires relate to poor maintenance more than anything, so it's a little rich to blame the system

I've had a few mixer-ring systems and my last EL and current AUIII have never had one backfire (not one) in many tens of thousands of kilometres of driving. Why, you ask? I keep the maintenance up, clean the idle jets, empty the condensation from the converter, ensure plugs are good quality and maintain the cooling system.

[2011G6E]

The years haven't been kind to the old logic of "a four cylinder is always better economy"...

The missus drove the new G6E down from home to Bundaberg, and it got the usual economy of around 36 to 37 miles per gallon...yes, I still think in MPG...and I followed in our old and very well maintained 1982 Celica with the two liter four and five speed manual. I only managed about 30 to 32mpg...and she had a bootload of stuff, four adults in the car, air con on all the way, etc. I was on my own with an overnight bag in the back...

Even looking at the economy sticker in the window of a lot of modern larger four cylinder cars shows that there just isn't enough of a difference to warrent deliberately choosing a four if you are after "economy", unless of course you choose something tiny, but families won't do that. For a family car, you may as well just buy a Commodore or Falcon (or, if you must, an Aurion), drive it economically, and be done with it...

If they can successfully push the economy points of the new falcon, they'll be onto a winner...the public could generally care less about 0 to 100 times, and more about how cheap it is to run and how pleasant it is to drive.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by Bobman

As far as backfires go, this has been a non-issue since VSI / SGI / Liquid aftermarket and the LPi system.

However, you will find backfires relate to poor maintenance more than anything, so it's a little rich to blame the system

I've had a few mixer-ring systems and my last EL and current AUIII have never had one backfire (not one) in many tens of thousands of kilometres of driving. Why, you ask? I keep the maintenance up, clean the idle jets, empty the condensation from the converter, ensure plugs are good quality and maintain the cooling system.

okay so if you are not mechanically inclined your maintenance measures cost money and eat into the savings given by using LPG, thus reducing and perhaps wiping out the savings made of using LPG over petrol

[mik]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

okay so if you are not mechanically inclined your maintenance measures cost money and eat into the savings given by using LPG, thus reducing and perhaps wiping out the savings made of using LPG over petrol

there are also some variables there, it also depends on the system, the qaulity of the installation and also as mentioned earlier maintenance.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

okay so if you are not mechanically inclined your maintenance measures cost money and eat into the savings given by using LPG, thus reducing and perhaps wiping out the savings made of using LPG over petrol

Yep just like petrol cars need maintenance.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by stang65

Yep just like petrol cars need maintenance.

Exactly! I spend the same or in some cases less with maintenance for my LPG car and all previous ones.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Exactly! I spend the same or in some cases less with maintenance for my LPG car and all previous ones.

whilst this may be the case for you bear in mind that this is not always the case, my example is case and point I spent much money on that car that if it was burning petrol it wouldn't have needed, whilst running petrol it wouldnt have blown its air intake to bits or needed new leads every 5,000 and new plugs every 9,000 and if I was running petrol cross arching between the leads wouldn't have been as disasterous, the setup I had was very sensitive and once plugs and leads got some use on them it would backfire and then I was up for a new air intake and a new set of leads so it didnt blowup the air intake again, I bought the car sechand with the system fitted so I had little choice in the system specifics as it was purchased like that, sorry to drag this offtopic all I am trying to say that many people have had bad experiences with LPG and as such avoid it, this is a shame and given time hopefully this opinion will fade

[mrbaxr6t]

people used to understand what I am trying to say, and were mature seems not the case anymore, juveniles

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

people used to understand what I am trying to say, and were mature seems not the case anymore, juveniles

We all have bad experiences in life with things. That doesn't mean it should be avoided again because of that.

Just look at how many people go from one relationship ending into a new relationship a year later. It's unfair to tar all LPG systems with the same brush based on one experience (with an older E-series).

I understand your frustration and know that there are dodgy LPG systems out there, but there are many variables that cause backfires. One step that should always be taken with a mixer-ring system is to have springs on the air filter box. At least you reduce the intake blowing to pieces as a result of a backfire.

All that is a thing of the past when injected systems hit the streets about 7 years ago, which virtually eliminated many of the mixer-ring woes. However, some people still had stalling issues with certain VSI/SGI systems - that's more a case of tuning.

I say take an EcoLPi for a test drive with an open mind and see if it changes your perception of things. I suggest that to everyone who has had a bad experience with an LPG car.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

whilst this may be the case for you bear in mind that this is not always the case, my example is case and point I spent much money on that car that if it was burning petrol it wouldn't have needed, whilst running petrol it wouldnt have blown its air intake to bits or needed new leads every 5,000 and new plugs every 9,000 and if I was running petrol cross arching between the leads wouldn't have been as disasterous, the setup I had was very sensitive and once plugs and leads got some use on them it would backfire and then I was up for a new air intake and a new set of leads so it didnt blowup the air intake again, I bought the car sechand with the system fitted so I had little choice in the system specifics as it was purchased like that, sorry to drag this offtopic all I am trying to say that many people have had bad experiences with LPG and as such avoid it, this is a shame and given time hopefully this opinion will fade

Mind tell us the system and the car it was on? Was it yoru first car? I had LPG on my first car and it was crap, backfiring mixers are painful. But I was at uni with money going to beer instead of maintenance...

I have a SVI Emer system now which I have forgotten to get the 10k service done, I think I am up to 20k now and not ONE single fault, ever.

So it goes in next week for a filter change and maybe a tune up...thats it.

[XESP351]

Not only are SVI and LPI systems better than the mixer technology. I actually believe mixer systems in the last 3-5 years are much better than old mixer systems.

I used to have an XF Ghia on gas about 15 years ago and whilst it was a nice car, it just kept having issues with the gas system blowing up air boxes and AFMs even with new leads, plugs and maticulous maintenance. Ended up selling it for $1k one year after I bought it (I believe it's in heaven now).

When I bought my EL ghia in 2009 I enquired about installing a gas system and the opinion of the majority of the installers was that it was not worth the extra spend in getting an SVI set up compared to a mixer setup for that particular car (5 litre V8) as the new mixer systems are great. I ended up getting the mixer system and never had one problem in two years until I sold it.

My XE ute also has a mixer gas system which was installed about 4 years ago and even though the thing has shagged and very old leads (arcing on rocker cover etc) and the spark plugs have not been changed since I have had it (2 years+), I have never had any problems with it and always starts up first time everytime even after sitting for more than a month.

[kennyboy]

I think mrbaxr6t is trying to say that others who have had similar problems or heard about the "problems" with old style lpg systems might be put off lpg, even though the modern systems don't have those issues any more

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by kennyboy

I think mrbaxr6t is trying to say that others who have had similar problems or heard about the "problems" with old style lpg systems might be put off lpg, even though the modern systems don't have those issues any more

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ why couldn't anybody else see that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I explained that with an example, pretty well I thought but it seems burning toast is somehow more relevant

the car was an EF futura sedan 6 cylinder auto not sure of the exact make/model of the gas system but it was pretty standard for the time had a converter underbonnet and introduced gas vapour into air intake right above the throttle body, this made the rubber stretchy things get stretched between the "snail" part of the intake and the rest of it - also due to above the mount bolts in this and the rocker cover were misaligned. and as I said it was fantastic when it was working, but when it decided to pop you better get the spare parts out - no this wasn't my first car and I cared for and maintained it religiously, but despite even my best efforts it still backfired and it had the "local experts" completely baffled as to why as well, many things were tried to alleviate the problems, I even went so far as to replace the temp and O2 sensors operating on the theory that one or both of them were not operating properly, this measure also failed

[Bobman]

The best system for E series or AU would be the standard Tickford one or even Sprint Gas.

Both of those systems I had on my old cars and they never caused any concerns.

It's rather silly to be put off something just because of one bad experience, which could have easily been resolved by a tune or replacing the converter or the LPG ECU. Air leaks also can create backfires, along with cheaper spark plugs or leads or an ageing coil.

It's a bit like hating petrol because the injectors need to be cleaned or the fuel pump gets blocked or hating diesel because the glow plug failed one day.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by Bobman

The best system for E series or AU would be the standard Tickford one or even Sprint Gas.

Both of those systems I had on my old cars and they never caused any concerns.

It's rather silly to be put off something just because of one bad experience, which could have easily been resolved by a tune or replacing the converter or the LPG ECU. Air leaks also can create backfires, along with cheaper spark plugs or leads or an ageing coil.

It's a bit like hating petrol because the injectors need to be cleaned or the fuel pump gets blocked or hating diesel because the glow plug failed one day.

would you like more examples? I mean really my car and experiences are far from isolated and no it isn't the only car I have ever had running LPG, my father had an FD LTD which he killed in spectacular fashion also never right I had a ZL fairlane also was never right (both prone to blowing air intake to bits) friend had an EA f/mont ghia also had a tendency to blow its airbox to bits, Friend that had the EA now has a BA on gas with some superposh I-Never-Backfire fandangle thing on it and guess what? it too backfired and blew the airfilter clean off, and he claims the gas system on the car was quite pricey (double the rebate), sorry but the majority of EFI cars don't play nice with vapour delivered LPG systems, and like I said I am hopeful that they have fixed it with these newer injected setups

[stang65]

So what doe this have to do with a factory gas car in 2011?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by stang65

So what doe this have to do with a factory gas car in 2011?

Bout the same as the performance from a factory performance car and one that comes from Joe Blow Performance.

[mrbaxr6t]

***** sake for the ten thousandth time in this thread LPG has public perception of it being bad or inferior to overcome, this will make people toey about it as the thought of LPG brings back memories or stories of LPG cars of the not too distant past, and a cautious punter will likely avoid it for a (perceived) more reliable petrol variant or if there is no petrol variant to something else, LPG in the public eye is viewed as more trouble than what its worth at the moment, due to backfiring/breakdowns thats what people think when they hear LPG, then they hear the sales boffin say "oh no but this one is good and it doesn't do that" and the non mechanically inclined individual goes BULL****** I have heard this before and that was just salesman spin, the cars need to get out there and be reliable before public perception will change. Everybody knows its a cheaper fuel and they also know many horror stories pivoting around backfiring/breakdowns. People want cars that will drive forever and never need a cent spent on them to keep them doing so, recent LPG experience leads them to believe that they will be putting their mechanics' kids through university.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

People want cars that will drive forever and never need a cent spent on them to keep them doing so...

FUNNY!