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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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20-01-2012, 04:40 PM | #31 | |||
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GTO - Gran Turismo Omologato (I personally think the pontiac gto is really a GTB car... but anyway) Just picked this one up- The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving." An easy and fairly accurate way to explain it without fuss...
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20-01-2012, 04:58 PM | #32 | |||
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"Muscle car" doesn't need to exsist in a time-bubble, that is only to refer to cars of the mid sixites to early 70's with big engines, small brakes, lots of power but little cornering finess. I believe the term is ment to actually describe larger american performance cars (GTO Torino, Charger etc), while "Pony cars" are the mid size (Mustang, camero etc). But, as time goes on, most people refer to mustangs as muscle cars. Come to present day, does "modern" technology make muscle obsolete? So, take a XR6T...muscle? Yes. Its a large RWD sedan with bucket loads of power, much like a GTHO (oh no i didn't! ) in essance. Remember that OHC's, turbos etc are as old as muscle cars them selves, and if ford had its way SOHC motors would have made its way into Torinos, and only chrome bumpers? Ford fairlane Thunderblot had fiberglass bumpers... In realliy there is "classic muscle" and "modern muscle"... Might be hard to chew, but its the truth.
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20-01-2012, 05:00 PM | #33 | |||
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Would have to agree with this rather than specific models, although 2 doors only is a bit USA specific. Oh and the made in USA part. |
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20-01-2012, 05:01 PM | #34 | ||
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I reckon a basic RWD car, with a big V8 which produces tyre shredding power.
I also automatically associate Superchargers with muscles cars. Not so much Turbos. |
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20-01-2012, 05:36 PM | #35 | ||
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muscle car- Old School 50's-70's, powerful engine be it 6 or 8, under braked, manual steer.
Performance car- forced induction/large capacity n/a, handling upgrades, brake upgrades, body kits big wheels/tyres. Obviously there are exceptions to the rules, but this basically seperates true muscle from modern performance. |
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20-01-2012, 05:41 PM | #36 | ||
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what about from a drivers prospective?
my vy drives like my torana, (without the friggin rattles though, yet)
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20-01-2012, 05:48 PM | #37 | ||
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A couple of US Journos came up with the name “Muscle Car Era”. Truth is it only lasted a few years...... from '66 to '71.
It most likely started when Ford, Dearborn, tossed a couple of new Hemi-heads on the FE Side Oiler block & went racing.. Boy, they went racing! They needed to sell some units to the punters to get through the rules so it was sold as a Crate Motor in dealerships from 1966. You could drive your Tank Fairlane in on Saturday morning, part with $US2200.00 and take it home swap the motor in an afternoon and pop up on Saturday night on your local cruise with a 427SOHC, running the then all new 1150cfm Holley Dominator 4 barrel. It even came with cast iron headers. At the same time Ford were flogging off the Windsor with basically twin cam Clevo heads. They were already flogging the 302 Windsor with basically Cleveland Heads. That was the start and as I said Ford went racing...... the SOHC lasted two years and won everything at the drags and on the track over there, so it was factored out of contention, (I mean you can’t have one manufacturer winning everything, can you). By 67 - 68 they were all into it, Dodge with the big block Hemis & semi hemis, Chev were even shoving truck engines into everything… and so on. It was the last great horse power war…… it all came to an end when the first oil shock hit in late ’71. If you look at the dates above you can see how it all came over here on the back of the local Falcon GT, and so we here, in Australia had our own little horsepower war. Was it all just jingoistic nonsense? No, it was salesmanship egged on by the manufacturers no doubt. I remember reading Wheels, Modern Motor and almost wanting to sell my horse……
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20-01-2012, 07:55 PM | #38 | ||
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Attachment 71554
does this count, power assisted drums, one reasonable stop from speed if ya lucky. 350ci massive chrome bumper, poorer cousin to the GTO (the original muscle car was the GTO) Last edited by mash again; 23-06-2012 at 05:38 PM. |
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20-01-2012, 08:32 PM | #39 | |||
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20-01-2012, 08:47 PM | #40 | |||
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in my opinion, muscle isn't just speed - it means having the muscle/tourque to effortlessly move any realistic load a torana, bolwell or 6 cyl valiants are not muscle to me |
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20-01-2012, 10:00 PM | #41 | ||||
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Agreed ^^^^ with the small caveat that a muscle car is a 2 door coupe.....good in a straight line not necessarily so good in corners- 4 door cars with V8's are cool but by definition not muscle cars
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20-01-2012, 10:07 PM | #42 | ||
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The muscle car term was actually born from GM dealers doing creative ordering of near stock sedans and hardtops
but through a sleight of hand in the ordering system were able to be supplied with much larger big block engines. As the process refined, people wanted Big blocks and Hi Po engines in their favorite US sports cars and so it began... |
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21-01-2012, 07:36 AM | #43 | ||
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I heard a GTHO in full cry the other day and it was truly majic. They're not fast by modern V8 standards but OMG the sound is to die for. Nowdays we have the PC brigade telling us all our cars must be under a certain decible limit. Really loud old school V8 sound is the key ingrediant IMHO.
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21-01-2012, 09:12 AM | #44 | |||
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It will pull way more loads than my XC would dream off But it aint no muscle car The turbo diesel 4by thats nearly finished puts out my torque at the wheels than the XC, and will definately tow more, again its no muscle car And the 4bies will both give the XC a run for the money edit : The first thing i took of the XC was the towbar,missus asked why ??? |
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21-01-2012, 09:18 AM | #45 | |||
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others have already alluded to the fact that later model cars will run rings around so called muscle cars for performance and comfort - but then that is generally not what muscle cars are about we could use the american definition, but then not many of our cars would fit the criteria, because most were sedans - and even the coupes were watered down within 2 years of being built, so most of them would not qualify |
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21-01-2012, 09:41 AM | #46 | ||
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How about "muscle" doesn't describe the car its self, but, the feeling created through owning and driving one?
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21-01-2012, 10:25 AM | #47 | ||
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Thats what i said previously.
If i got in my car blindfolded, it would feel like a damn Muscle car. It would drive like one too. Everyone has a different definition. IMO There is NO definition thats definite.
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21-01-2012, 10:50 AM | #48 | |||
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either way, everyone has their interpretation and whether they are right, wrong or neither, it doesn't really matter. to the true definition, australia doesn't have many muscle cars (if any), so that means we all have make our own criteria. many would not agree with me, because i do not and will not consider xu-1's, a9x's or 6 cyl valiants as muscle cars - doesn't make me right though, just opinionated |
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21-01-2012, 10:56 AM | #49 | ||
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I think the new 580 hp ZL1 Camaro and the 650 hp GT500 Mustang are worthy successors.
Both of those showroom cars are a step above our FPVs and HSVs and well deserving of the "Muscle Car" tag. |
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21-01-2012, 11:12 AM | #50 | ||
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Not a muscle car itself but id say the end of Australias muscle car era was the Valiant shape. The last real 100% Aussie muscle car would have to be the XB GT
Last edited by PIG250; 15-09-2013 at 02:02 PM. |
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21-01-2012, 11:44 AM | #51 | ||
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They big and heavy requiring MUSCLE to drive them...
Esp in manual steering form...
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21-01-2012, 01:13 PM | #52 | ||
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The History of muscle cars started in the 1940's and early 1950's.
The Dukes of Hazard is a play on this. Moonshine runners and their toys. But probably the best totally dedicated Muscle car was the 1966 Pontiac GTO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pontiac_GTO_1966.jpg http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/...cars-work3.htm Last edited by billy302; 21-01-2012 at 01:16 PM. Reason: More stuff |
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21-01-2012, 06:38 PM | #53 | |||
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I've just driven one for a week and can guarantee you it is a scarey piece of work....6.2 litres of shaking V8 brutality. Loud,thirsty, uncomfortable and sheer muscle. In stock form it is a sub 4 second 0-100 performer....normally aspirated. Imagine the most modified XR6 turbo...then think faster without boost. I can vouch that at 150 mph it still has two gears to go.... |
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21-01-2012, 08:17 PM | #55 | |||
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21-01-2012, 09:03 PM | #56 | |||
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BTW .. That was 133mph (down significantly from 147mph of the 1969 Dodge Polara) .. The 1978 Corvette was 127mph (Car and Driver, Jan 1979) I think you must be confusing 4-wheel, coil sprung, all wheel drum, stockos with Mopars big-block police specials. Theres a reason why all you see in old Dukes of Hazzard and Blues Brothers are mopar police cars .. They OWNED the police market until 1978. It's actually interesting talking about police cars as a muscle cars were mechanically based on a lot of "police" hardware. One of the best 60s police specials was the 1968 Plymouth Belvedere was basically a four-door Road Runner. |
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21-01-2012, 09:17 PM | #57 | ||
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Awesome pics z80. I am going to hire one of them when I go to the US one day. Just have to wait a few years until I am over 25 so I don't pay a ridiculous price.
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21-01-2012, 09:23 PM | #58 | ||
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My definition of muscle car is as follows:
A model that was built in basic spec, but offered performance-orientated options from factory. With a "sports/super car" being a model that's only available as a "peformance orientated" vehicle. Yes, I realise that would include many cars such as Minis. But you need to consider that eg: a Mini wouldve been one of the best "muscle" cars any relevant country may have offered. However, this is merely my opinion. NOT gospel that im forcing others to believe. |
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22-01-2012, 07:28 AM | #59 | ||
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Corvettes are NOT muscle cars , especially the early ones before the Lotus powered ones . They were nothing but ugly overweight sludgeboxes , hell 99% of them were autos , they werent even sports cars as that is just a bridge too far , they were bought by the BCSD crowd .( Until the Lotus powered and suspended ones ) . Put them up against a Bolwell Nagari and they would not see the Bolwell for dust as it dissapered into the distance.
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22-01-2012, 07:36 AM | #60 | |||
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