BMW E90 320i workshop headakes - warning

[happy1]

Hi,
Just to let out some frustration, and to send out a general warning to stay away from BMW E90 and other new BMW products.

They may look stylish, and appear to be 'ahead' of other brands, but what I have just discovered is not a pleasant surprise.

Conclusion: BMW are specially engineered to be hostile for mechanics, and ONLY attempt to repair one if you have access to special tools worth $3000 or more.

My wife has one, not looked well after, and hardly serviced. She ran it out of oil a couple of times, and developed some horrible crunching noises from the engine. To cut story short - Got a second hand replacement engine with low K's, and dropped in to a nearby 'European' workshop in Wangara, Perth.
They quoted $2000 +GST for the swap, including filters, oil, and a new mechatronics plug at the back of the ZF transmission. Come back in two weeks and all will be ready for you..

One week later.. I made a surprise visit, car was still outside, not even started the job. No parts ordered.
Then they called me 4 days later. Job done, but a 'little' problem.. It will not start. They explained we have hooked up the computer, it is telling us the valve timing is flickering, therefore your supplied spare engine must have been so impacted that it is messed up. We will offer to shift it to our 'other branch' they are more specialised. They will need to strip the head off, and inspect everything, then put it back together, with new timing chain guides. Then it will be running.. Fixed price for strip head will cost you $450. Please pay your bill, and we will shift it to the other branch at Jandakot, on a tow truck. We send all our big jobs to them, our head office. They are much more specialized..

What else can I do, other than to fork out $$ and

Then, today the new workshop called, they said 'we understand the engine has been replaced by someone else'. We are calling to tell you it will cost from $ 7000 to $11000 to get this car running again.

Ok, fair enough, they had identified that the cylinder head on the one I supplied second hand from a private wrecker had been knocked 1mm backwards, and the engine did need a new head gasket. However there were nothing wrong with the timing. Instead there was a faulty position sensor in the variable cam timing arrangment.

My argument was this car is not worth much anymore, and spending $11 grand on a brand new engine is not possible.
I had brought with me a car trailer, and since they were not willing to work with second-hand parts, or make the best out of the two engines I had, then I paid another $500 for the strip job (now they wanted $800 rather than the quoted 450) I explained that unfortunately its not worth throwing $11 grand on this 7 year old car, and started preparing to load it up on the trailer, in bits and pieces, with the boot full of parts.

The workshop owner/manager explained how this particular E90 engine clearly has been specially engineer to require a lot of tools, for example the cam chain wheels doesn't have a spline or a mark on the cams. Instead they are installed flat to flat with a strething bolt. The sensor wheels on the cams requires another tool, and if the front pulley has been loosened it requires sump off again to re-align balance shafts etc,

The workshop then went on describing how the head on the supplied spare engine had to be stripped, pressure tested, planed, and even machined, (only done 30K's) they insisted spending nearly $1000 on the head, just to service that. Then they said you should really get a new bottom end for it. We have one we can supply to you, but it will require lots of hours for the re-build. (they said: These alloy engines are so delicate, and after an impact your spare engine probably has lots of internal cracks etc.)

Anyway, I ended up convincing them to but it back together, with a new head gasket, a new sensor on the cam, a new vaacum pump, and a new water hose, and to see how it goes. They insisted the head job is necessary, therefore it will end up around $2700 to $3000 just to rattle it back into one piece. Hopefully it will run good enough, at least for a while.

If it had been any other engine I would have done the work myself after the first workshop said 'valve timing wrong'. But with this purposely complicated piece of german revenge from WW2, it is impossible to do something myself, and we are subject to rip-offs like described above.

NEVER EVER BMW-products anywhere near my household again if my opinion is asked.

Cheers

[Nic85]

It's pretty common knowledge that the Euro stuff is built to very fine tolerances. They're not particularly reliable, and anything that goes wrong with them (which will be a lot), is going to cost a fortune to fix.

Sorry to hear of your story mate. Probably best to sell it ASAP and buy something Japanese/Australian/Korean.

[happy1]

Hi Nic85,
If you compare the factory service manual recommended durations on for example Subaru and Audi, you will find a Subaru WRX clutch replacment (with engine out on the floor) can be done in less than 6 hours if the mechanic doesn't take too many coffee breaks. Audi: Something as 'simple' as timing belt replacement in a V6 version of the A6 is a complete front-end strip-down, more than one days work just for a timing belt.
At least with Audi and VW it is possible for any mechanic to do most things, despite very time consuming. BMW seems to have taken their design a step further, and purposely made it impossible for anyone but a BMW specialized workshop to do things like lifting out this camshaft arrangement on E90.

I was a specialist repairer at a motorbike workshop for many years. I did big engine jobs such as replacing the engine housing on insurance repairs. Often there were scratches or lugs knocked off, and we had to strip the engines, transfer all the rotating engine and transmission parts into new crank cases. I've done most Suzuki and Honda motorbikes from 1995 - 2004. Some times 2 or 3 special tools were needed, but never something that purposely couldn't be put back together again.
In comparison, this BMW workshop showed me a few of the things in the valve train on the E90 320 engine that required a full tray of special tools in order to assemble it. (value $3000 just for a tray of silly clamps, jigs, pins etc) Without all the tools the engine would never run again. I have never seen anything so stupid before. Clearly another german WW2 revenge to the rest of the world. (in addition to the materials handling software program SAP if any of you have worked with that)

In comparison with clever, service friendly japanese design, BMW really seem to try to squeeze aftermarket money out of their customers. Prior to this I was tempted to consider a BMW 135, 335, or 330D for myself at some point in time when they become more affordable, but no more thoughts like that after this. Cheers

[smoo]

To the op do you really think high parts prices and servicing is limited to Euro cars... go and find out the price to a D4D Hilux/Hiace turbo, cylinder head for a V6 Suzuki Vitara, injector lines for a Hyundai Santa fe TPS for alloyech V6 etc (pull your head out). Did you ever think to carry out preventative maintenance of an expensive, relatively new car?!?! (which put you in this position in the first place).
I'm not sure about cars but I will take a guess and say all manufacturers are heading this way with specialised tools and diagnosis even on the bigger diesels, you need a $3000 tool to fit a preloaded front/rear crank seal to a small Isuzu 4 cylinder and this is commonplace thoughout the industry for trucks anyway not limited to Euro stuff, good luck trying to rebuild an Isuzu or ZF 16 speed syncro without proper tools or top tune a C15 Cat or Cummins, at the end of the day the Euros are innovators and most technology in the modern car can be tracked back to them if not we would be cruisng round in shitheaps with the safety and efficiency resembling an HQ Holden.
fwiw myself and extended family have had good runs out of German cars from 1970s w116 S Class to E60 5 series. I would consider my BA Fairlane up to par with an E38 740i, except the BMW came out in 1994, lol.

[Nic85]

Years ago my sister owned a new VW Beetle out of warranty. The drivers side window regulator failed in it. VW wanted $1200 for parts and labour. The part cost $550, and it took 3 days to do it myself. It was one of the most arduous tasks I've performed on a car.

In contrast, I now have a Mitsubishi 380 LX. The other week the rear drivers side window regulator failed. The part cost me $140 delivered brand new off an ebay store and literally took 15 minutes to replace.

European cars are nice, just don't own one out of warranty.

[Jim Goose]

Ahhhh lemme get it straight...

Your otherhalf ran outta oil serveral times????
(alarm bells sounding but no ones awake)

You bought a 2nd hand engine to replace it.....

The place you went to ripped you off...

So you went to another place who found the engine you bought was faulty and ripped you off again....

So its BMWs fault?!?!??

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by happy1

Hi,

My wife has one, not looked well after, and hardly serviced. She ran it out of oil a couple of times, and developed some horrible crunching noises from the engine. ....

NEVER EVER BMW-products anywhere near my household again if my opinion is asked.

Cheers

I think you have reached the wrong conclusion. NEVER EVER let your wife near a car again. She is the reason it has cost you so much

[Cheese3]

im sorry, its not BMW fault, just human error and stupidity

You ran it out of oil and you wonder why it failed?

you bought a 2nd hand engine from a wreckers?

im sorry but you are to blame in this story, ive had 2 bmw cars and still have 1 now and will pick up a s1000rr in the next coming months. i for one never had an issue with BMW or their products and service has been amazing

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by happy1

My wife has one, not looked well after, and hardly serviced. She ran it out of oil a couple of times, and developed some horrible crunching noises from the engine.

Didn't bother reading past here....

[Yellow_Festiva]

Funny, my mechanic told me the newer Beemers are actually some of the easier cars to work on. Told me it was designed in such a way to easily swap engine / gearboxes... must have heard it wrong.

Wonder if cheap preventative maintenance would have saved you a bit... well a lot actually down the track??

Ran out of oil... a couple of times??? Seriously.....

[pmacc]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

im sorry, its not BMW fault, just human error and stupidity

You ran it out of oil and you wonder why it failed?

you bought a 2nd hand engine from a wreckers?

im sorry but you are to blame in this story, ive had 2 bmw cars and still have 1 now and will pick up a s1000rr in the next coming months. i for one never had an issue with BMW or their products and service has been amazing

My old lady has a E46 318i and besides a spark plug letting go at 72k its been nothing but reliable. that said it has been serviced to its schedule from day 1

[Uwish]

I find it hard to understand how you got around all the warnings for Servicing and low oil????
I am buying my better half a E90 320d. We have had a few BMWs in our family
M5 E39, M5 E60 , E90 323i Touring, X5 4.4 E53 , X5 4.8 E70 and a X5M
All with no problems.
And teh M cars are driven hard.

So I would say you have no one to blame but yourself and wifey.

[stevanford]

Originally Posted by happy1

My wife has one, not looked well after, and hardly serviced. She ran it out of oil a couple of times, and developed some horrible crunching noises from the engine. To cut story short - Got a second hand replacement engine with low K's

Originally Posted by happy1

NEVER EVER BMW-products anywhere near my household again if my opinion is asked.

I don't know what to say...

[turbodewd]

Put your BMW badges on a Falcon, she wont know the difference

[Fiesta God]

Originally Posted by happy1

My wife has one, not looked well after, and hardly serviced. She ran it out of oil a couple of times, and developed some horrible crunching noises from the engine.

You had lost me at hello ...

The key to European cars in my experience is strict adherence to the maintenance schedule.

They put so much work into fine tolerances and sophisticated parts, but also a lot of work into prescribing a servicing regime that prevents anything from going wrong (for the very reason of the sophistication involved).

They don't put all those lights and warnings on the dash for no reason.

[Bud Bud]

Some of you are a bit harsh really, while it is widely excepted that the cause of the problem started with the Mrs running out of oil a couple of times, (and she aint the first) and not with BMW for this lack of inattentiveness and subsequent damage, the OP was simply pointing out that once a major failure has occurred (for what ever reason) with this type of Euro, then there is little option but to turn to the experts with their expensive but necessary tools and equally necessary but expensive diagnostics and expertise to fix what would be considered a bread and butter job for a regular workshop on a BA.

I would have thought that this could have easily been considered a win for the 10 yo Aussie car for some on this forum instead of calling for a strict and regimented maintenance program for your top end Euro instead.

Bud Bud

[dylancox]

With all the R&D expenses, BMW want their customers to buy new cars. If they made the cars so that anybody could change any part in their backyard to make the car live forever like a Kingswood, they'd be broke.

[happy1]

Thanks Bud Bud,
Yes of course she wouldn't have been in this situation if it had been serviced better. Yes, certain stressed females with kids in the back seat have the ability to keep driving despite warning lights flashing.

My general point was: If you choose a BMW product, you have no option of having it repaired at your nearest corner shop, or in your best DIY home shed.
And in my view fine tolerances has nothing to do with complicated design, with the purpose of keeping normal workshops away.

How many of you have a car less than 3 years old anyway?

[GasoLane]

My wife never checks the oil, water, power steering fluid, Windscreen washers or tyre pressure.

She wouldn't know how to, I do and if I don't check them on a regular basis and something goes wrong I wouldn't blame her or Ford.

[Till_Lind]

Love BMW, but they don't look good at all nowdays. Mercedes on the ball though, still making attractive cars.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by happy1

How many of you have a car less than 3 years old anyway?

What has that got to do with anything?

I do..... and the point being what?

If your point was to show the many design flaws a BMW has because it costs a lot to repair you went about it the wrong way.... Your costs were incurred due to poor ownership... An expensive car generally needs expensive parts and perhaps more specialised repair procedures and equipment... comes with the badge and extra technology under the bonnet.

My wife does not know anything about cars, but when I got her her new car I went over the ins and outs of ownership for when I wasn't around and explained exactly what to do in most situations.

She knows that any dash light that appears while driving is an instant call to me when safe. I have explained as best I can what most mean, and the costs involved with the repair should some of those lights be ignored.

Your points may be valid, and I agree with you to an extent after owning several European cars and having a Fiat in the garage at the moment... how you argued them wasn't.

Off load your BMW fast, cut your losses, buy something that has been well looked after and continue to do so and you should get many years of trouble free motoring.

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by happy1

How many of you have a car less than 3 years old anyway?

Been there and done that.
My old girl has had many a M3 and havent got a bad word for them.
Yes they can be a pain in the **** to work on and the people with the gear to work on them charge a mint.
Thats the price you pay for having an imported car.
Im sure in Germany any local mechanic or "corner store" as you put it would have the gear to work on it , but ask them to do the timing tensioners on a Boss 290 for example and they wouldnt have the gear and the people that did would charge what they wanted for it.
Its the choice you made when you bought an imported car.
If you want a car that can be fixed by anyone and can be hammered into the ground by your wife (who it sounds like has the mechanical sympathy of a meat axe and not much more of an idea) maybe you should flick the "status" of a BMW and pick her up a VN commodore ex taxi. They can be fixed with hammers and who needs oil?
If you want to keep the big note Beemer do the following.
1. Suck it up and pay the bills that are required to keep it on the road.
2. Teach your missus to wake up to herself and learn to put a car in to be serviced.
3. Go out and check the oil etc yourself once a week and book it in for a service yourself.

The problem is owner neglect and stupidity not BMW design.

[IDT]

Originally Posted by Uwish

I find it hard to understand how you got around all the warnings for Servicing and low oil????
I am buying my better half a E90 320d. We have had a few BMWs in our family
M5 E39, M5 E60 , E90 323i Touring, X5 4.4 E53 , X5 4.8 E70 and a X5M
All with no problems.
And teh M cars are driven hard.

So I would say you have no one to blame but yourself and wifey.

So true, I have a 335 and it has so many warning alarms that she must have taped over the dash, put her earphones in and turned the volume to max on her ipod to have let all this happen. I constantly here bad things about BMW's but I have had not one bad experience. They just need to be maintained like every other car.

[Nikked]

My wife has one, not looked well after, and hardly serviced. She ran it out of oil a couple of times, and developed some horrible crunching noises from the engine.

And yet, its BMW's fault?

[randel]

i use German Auto Services at Jandakot if that is who you are getting to do the work - I find them very professional and honest. The only advice I would give is that the Service Interval reminder in the dash is like 15,000 0r 25,000 klms from memory. We just do them at 10,000klm as recommended by German Auto and shown on their sticker on the window.

[yift]

pretty straight forward to me.

another useless thread trying to bag a product that did everything it was meant to do in the conditions it was made to be used in.

It is not BMW's or the mechanics fault that the vehicle's owner/driver did not adhere to alarm bells that it was running out/ ran out of oil or due for a service. (it is all there on the display)

Just because it is a BMW it doesnt mean it will just keep running.

the only times i have had issues with their engines is when owners have run out of oil, overheated or driven through a massive puddle and sucked in alot of water.

[Franco Cozzo]

Any modern car is a massive bastard to work on, except the Falcon pretty much, there is so much room in that engine bay haha.

Go and do valve clearances on a transverse V6 engine.

[sudszy]

ran out of oil?

sounds like there was something seriously wrong with the engine already if it couldnt go between services/10000km or so without using more than a litre of oil, nevermind using enough to cause problems.

[XRtowcar]

Bosses Audi A6 2003 Quattro V8 cost $140,000 new.
Currently worth $15,000.
Timing belt change is nearly $2000.00.
Chews tyres every 25,000k's.
Brakes at 40,000K's.
Needed rebuilt head, $3500.00.
Nice to own these out of warranty Euro's but beware of the repair bills.
Was in an ABS getting some brake parts when the sevice guy was trying to explain to a woman with a early eighties Mercedes Benz why a new air con compressor was $6500.00 and worth more than the car.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

Was in an ABS getting some brake parts when the sevice guy was trying to explain to a woman with a early eighties Mercedes Benz why a new air con compressor was $6500.00 and worth more than the car.

I bet he had to try really hard as well, seeing as they're about $900 tops!!