Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #1
mik
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
Default Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air



http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...16/3569478.htm

Stuart Gary
ABC


Scientists have developed a safe and practical method of storing hydrogen in nanoparticles, opening the way for its wide spread use as a fuel source.

Hydrogen has long been touted as a fuel of the future with applications ranging from powering buildings and cars, to portable electronic devices such as computers.

However, developing a useful means of storage has been a major stumbling block.

Existing methods involve cryogenic storage at extremely high pressures.

Meganne Christian and Dr Kondo-Francois Aguey-Zinsou of the University of New South Wales have successfully used a core-shell nanostructure to store, release and reabsorb hydrogen at practical temperatures and pressures.

The research, reported in the journal ACS Nano, uses tiny particles of synthesised sodium borohydride encased in nickel shells.

Aguey-Zinsou says the compound, which includes lithium and sodium, was known to be an effective storage material because it could bond large amounts of hydrogen.

"Hydrogen is a gas of very low density, so if you want to power a car with it you need big volumes," says Aguey-Zinsou. "[You would need] a five metre diameter tank to drive 400 kilometres."

"But sodium borohydride acts like a sponge, allowing you to store the same amount of hydrogen in something the size of a normal car fuel tank."

Initial hurdles
Normally the compound could only be used once because it requires temperatures above 550° Celsius to release hydrogen, causing it to break apart. It can be recombined, but only under extremely high temperatures and pressures.

"Encasing the compound in tiny nanoshells lets us fine tune their properties, making them reversible at lower pressures and temperatures, allowing them to continually reabsorb and release hydrogen," says Aguey-Zinsou.

"Initial hydrogen release is now happening at just 50°C with significant release at 350°C."

Ongoing research
Aguey-Zinsou and colleagues are currently working to better understand the features of the nanostructure, and are building a demonstration project showcasing the technology.

"It will use electricity from solar and wind energy to extract hydrogen out of water using an electrolyser," says Aguey-Zinsou. "This is then stored in a tank of sodium borohydride and used to drive a fuel cell to generate electricity at night or when there's no wind."

"The first commercial applications could be just three or four years away."

mik is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #2
XP6
Formerly ST170ish
 
XP6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down south
Posts: 1,674
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Thats a pretty big achievement... help us keep those pistons pumping way into the future!
XP6 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 05:39 PM   #3
MWTB
I'm old and I fell
 
MWTB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Ringwood, Melbourne
Posts: 1,180
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Fantastic news!
__________________
BF2 XR6 turbo

82lb injectors, Walbro fuel pump, bigger cooler, Plazmaman piping, SS Growler, tune, ZF tune, Crow valve springs so far.

Ozracing coilovers, Pedders sway bars front and rear.

315rwkw
MWTB is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 05:53 PM   #4
2011G6E
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
2011G6E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Great news...still doesn't get away from the fact that hydrogen is an energy negative fuel that takes far more energy to produce than is contained in the final product, making it effectively useless as a fuel for vehicles except as an interesting technical exercise.

It'll come if they ever develop a catalyst that will produce hydrogen at low cost in energy and price.
I wonder how the space of the storage would change? I recall the V12 BMW sedan they built which had a tank the size of a 44 gallon drum taking up the boot and part of the back seats, and which produced less power than the V8 version because of the low energy content of the fuel...

I was a little concerned at the sentence "Initial hydrogen release is now happening at just 50°C with significant release at 350°C."
I wouldn't feel comfortable with a highly flammable fuel source for my vehicle that is sitting there having to be heated to 350 degrees C to get it to release "significant" amounts of fuel...
2011G6E is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 06:36 PM   #5
Luke Plaizier
Lukeyson
Donating Member1
 
Luke Plaizier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW
Posts: 2,584
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

So what does this actually mean? Would it be a sand that you pour in your tank and pour out again when empty? Or is it capable of absorbing hydrogen at one temperature and then releasing it at another?

i imagine if you are at a fuel station waiting for your tank to cool down that might be inconvenient. But dumping and refilling might be practical.

Lukeyson
__________________
If the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it.
Luke Plaizier is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 07:18 PM   #6
Nikked
Oo\===/oO
 
Nikked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Long time member, loves Fords, sensible contributor and does some good and interesting posts. 
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011G6E
Great news...still doesn't get away from the fact that hydrogen is an energy negative fuel that takes far more energy to produce than is contained in the final product, making it effectively useless as a fuel for vehicles except as an interesting technical exercise.

But oil is becoming expensive to extract as crude oil supplies are requiring deeper wells, and other methods such as sand oil.


Hopefully a way of storing hydrogen in a practical way will be achieved, internal combustion is way mote cooler then electric engines...instant torque be dammed!
__________________





Check out my Photo-chop page

T...I...C...K...F...O...R...D
\≡≡T≡≡/
Nikked is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 07:46 PM   #7
SSD-85
Donating Member
Donating Member1
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,142
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011G6E
I was a little concerned at the sentence "Initial hydrogen release is now happening at just 50°C with significant release at 350°C."
I wouldn't feel comfortable with a highly flammable fuel source for my vehicle that is sitting there having to be heated to 350 degrees C to get it to release "significant" amounts of fuel...
Autoignition temperature of Hydrogen is 500°C (provided its not mixed with certain oxidisers). In my opinion, its about as comfortable as having petrol swill around freely in a tank, or a pressure vessel of cooled LPG.

Not having a go at you, just pointing out how relative it is to current liquid fuels in cars.

Last edited by SSD-85; 17-08-2012 at 07:57 PM.
SSD-85 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-08-2012, 08:54 PM   #8
flappist
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011G6E
Great news...still doesn't get away from the fact that hydrogen is an energy negative fuel that takes far more energy to produce than is contained in the final product, making it effectively useless as a fuel for vehicles except as an interesting technical exercise.

It'll come if they ever develop a catalyst that will produce hydrogen at low cost in energy and price.
I wonder how the space of the storage would change? I recall the V12 BMW sedan they built which had a tank the size of a 44 gallon drum taking up the boot and part of the back seats, and which produced less power than the V8 version because of the low energy content of the fuel...

I was a little concerned at the sentence "Initial hydrogen release is now happening at just 50°C with significant release at 350°C."
I wouldn't feel comfortable with a highly flammable fuel source for my vehicle that is sitting there having to be heated to 350 degrees C to get it to release "significant" amounts of fuel...
Ah yes but nuclear power generation can make up for any shortfalls.

Which country has all the uranium again?
flappist is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-08-2012, 03:59 AM   #9
Buntz
Straight Eight
 
Buntz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 2,049
Default Re: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air

Quote:
Originally Posted by flappist
Ah yes but nuclear power generation can make up for any shortfalls.

Which country has all the uranium again?
The waste of which can be turned into MOX and used again.

That or clean renewable energies like Solar to extract Hydrogen. Or those funky bacteria's they experiment with that release Hydrogen? In fact they have bacteria's for other gases too.

As long as you can store it, and package within what the requirements are now for a petrol or LPG car, and it's relatively easy on refuelling... then it could become a replacement for sure.

Good thing FoA and Monash Uni worked together on a Hydrogen powered Barra 6.
__________________
The Falcon is dead. Long live the Mighty Falcon.
Buntz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL