The Unions make me so mad...!

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by faircoupe

Its easy to sit up on your high horse and spout how easy it is for others to obtain a fair workplace and conditions without taking into account that not everyone may be as skilled,lucky,white,male,smart or anything else as you.I think you should take a step back pull your head in and mods should close this thread as it is most certainly political and provoking arguments between members.

Fair call, I see your point. But so far the thread has been quite amicable.
Trust me though, most of the Qantas workers and others on here are no different from me.

[faircoupe]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Hmmm, clearly someone is not old enough to have been working when the economy is in recession lucky you.
Never been; dismissed after training your replacement, felt up by the boss, asked to do anything you felt was unsafe or illegal, paid under the award rate etc etc.

I thought you started this thread because of a problem with a Qantas union rep, now you’re just off on some right wing ideological rant.

Agreed,its easy to breeze in on the coat-tails of decades of hard work and bargaining of others and declare how easy it is without realising the sacrifices of union members to achieve the standards we enjoy today.

"Living is easy with eyes closed,misunderstanding all you see......" John Lennon.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

I thought you started this thread because of a problem with a Qantas union rep, now you’re just off on some right wing ideological rant.

Perhaps you're right, but thats the way the thread has evolved.
There's nothing right-wing about what I'm trying to say. I'm just commenting on the employment market.
Sure, the unions have a purpose, however what has been said by many on here is that this purpose many be irrelevant in this day and age. It may appear that alot of the time the union is simply trying to justify their existance.

[faircoupe]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

Fair call, I see your point. But so far the thread has been quite amicable.
Trust me though, most of the Qantas workers and others on here are no different from me.

Pls dont jump to conclusions my friend,I am proud union and dont want to argue my beliefs on AFF but I will if I have to,dont underestimate the working class...

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

Perhaps you're right, but thats the way the thread has evolved.
There's nothing right-wing about what I'm trying to say. I'm just commenting on the employment market.
Sure, the unions have a purpose, however what has been said by many on here is that this purpose many be irrelevant in this day and age. It may appear that alot of the time the union is simply trying to justify their existance.

Did you mean for each line of the post to contradict the one before.

What is it you are trying to say Pepscobra

[Pepscobra]

Your beliefs are your beliefs, as are mine.
But dont come on here and puff your chest out telling me I dont understand the 'working class'. I am a son of an ethnic immigrant, one of the hardest working men I know. Take some of your own advise and don't jump to conclusions yourself.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Did you mean for each line of the post to contradict the one before.

What is it you are trying to say Pepscobra

What is it you're trying to say?

[faircoupe]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

Your beliefs are your beliefs, as are mine.
But dont come on here and puff your chest out telling me I dont understand the 'working class'. I am a son of an ethnic immigrant, one of the hardest working men I know. Take some of your own advise and don't jump to conclusions yourself.

Hey I am sure you are a stand-up bloke and you and I could take warm showers together talking about how good Ford is but if you want to come on here bagging unions I wont back down till this thread is closed,I am banned or we kiss and make up and send each other smlies.

[Franco Cozzo]

The way I see it is that you're never going to be able to negotiate a better deal just by yourself, if everyone goes in as a group it would also be for everyone.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The way I see it is that you're never going to be able to negotiate a better deal just by yourself, if everyone goes in as a group it would also be for everyone.

That's a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, if everyone bargains collectively for the same conditions, it results in the lowest common denominator getting rewarded as much as the hardest working. This is a pretty potent demotivator for both hard-working and those who want to coast.

Then there's individual agreements, where those who know they're an asset bargain for a greater share (which is entirely fair). Plenty of unions have gone out of their way to prevent individual bargaining, not because they wanted to protect individuals from being exploited, but because they want to hold everyone down to a lower standard. So that the status quo isn't shown up by the above average employee.

How is this good for any organisation?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

That's a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, if everyone bargains collectively for the same conditions, it results in the lowest common denominator getting rewarded as much as the hardest working. This is a pretty potent demotivator for both hard-working and those who want to coast.

Then there's individual agreements, where those who know they're an asset bargain for a greater share (which is entirely fair). Plenty of unions have gone out of their way to prevent individual bargaining, not because they wanted to protect individuals from being exploited, but because they want to hold everyone down to a lower standard. So that the status quo isn't shown up by the above average employee.

How is this good for any organisation?

When you've got a situation of people under the same job title, doing the exact same thing getting paid differently, it turns into fights when people find out someone is getting paid more than the other.

Its what happened in my workplace with the trade assistants, people getting paid from $15.91 to $20 hour doing the same job, and when the people on the lower rates found out it caused a rift in the workplace and it turned ugly real quick, people sabotaged others work, dropped back in productivity, arguments in meetings etc.

Negative attitude spreads quickly across the whole workforce, before you know it everyone is involved, and when you don't have happy workers you don't have productive workers either.

What we planned was to have a classification scale, you start off on $x per hour, but if you had things like HR license, forklift license, first aid and or other relevant higher qualifications for the job you would move up on the scale and rightly so because the people with those licenses are regularily called up to use that sort of equipment but don't get paid the extra $$$.

Also just because an EBA is in place, doesn't mean your employer can't reward you for going above and beyond, it just stops them from going lower than what the EBA says.

The majority lost faith in the AMWU in my workplace when they turned up late and without the EBA, that was it, union dead in the water.

[brydie76]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

When you've got a situation of people under the same job title, doing the exact same thing getting paid differently, it turns into fights when people find out someone is getting paid more than the other.

Its what happened in my workplace with the trade assistants, people getting paid from $15.91 to $20 hour doing the same job, and when the people on the lower rates found out it caused a rift in the workplace and it turned ugly real quick, people sabotaged others work, dropped back in productivity, arguments in meetings etc.

Negative attitude spreads quickly across the whole workforce, before you know it everyone is involved, and when you don't have happy workers you don't have productive workers either.

Have to disagree. My company works this way with no issues, and given we have thousands of people employed worldwide I think that it would be quickly apparent if there were any serious issues arising. Given I think the other similar sized companies in our industry would operate similarly, if not the same, I would say that hundreds of thousands of people worldwide are pretty happily on an individual bargaining scheme where people at the same grade, doing the same day to day work get paid differently depending on how good they are.

I personally know there are 3 different sized salaries between the 5 of us at the one grade in my workplace at the moment, and we don't squabble/sabotage the person on the higher salary. If anything, being on the lower pay makes the right people pick up their game to get that recognition and higher pay grade. The lazy/unmotivated people leave.

Obviously this all relies on your employer being good at actually recognising your contribution and fairly marking people on performance. My work is great at this, and puts a fair bit of time into it. I have to put a fair bit of time in too, to make sure I am getting written feedback from my superiors on my work to back up my case for a pay rise/promotion. Worth it though eventually!

[BHDOGS]

Yup nothing better then multinational corporations with ****** unions in place I mean
They'd never take Advantage of workers to increase profits nope no need for Unions these days I mean look at cleaners lazy bums not getting a uni degree how dare they want enough money to live I went to uni for 30 years to earn my money outrageous I say a sixpence each and a daily beating for these unskilled riff Raff people yup a world without unions is definatly the best said no one who earns a **** wage ever

[opto]

http://www.skwirk.com.au/p-c_s-14_u-...the-wars-1920s

[henry351]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The way I see it is that you're never going to be able to negotiate a better deal just by yourself, if everyone goes in as a group it would also be for everyone.

It is impossible to have everyone working on the same wage as some people are better at there jobs than others.It should be up to the individual to discuss there pay with there boss.
Its funny when someone from the union wants everyone to go on strike and not work and not get paid he is still getting paid go figure.

[flappist]

OK this has gone around enough times.

Now the thread is on strike.