New Tyres - Rotation: How important and what is your frequency and method?

[peterljohnson55]

Hiya,

I just got a new set of five tyres and want to get off to a good start at getting the most life at of them.

They are standard pattern Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max 215/60R16 95V.

($146 each at Beaurepaires. I phoned and asked for price; was told $161, then asked for my NRMA 10% discount. Bit of a bargain, actually.)

So, I am hoping you can give me some ideas about your method and frequency for rotating either 4 or 5.

Thanks for your comments.

[Mr Hardware]

My method is this
I don't replace my spare, even though I probably should, i only travel on pretty good quality blacktop, and i'm averaging only one puncture per quarter of a million kays, so I only ever replace 4. That being said, i do inspect and inflate my spare every so often.

So when i have standard pattern tyres, I just go opposites all the time. I do this at about 16,000klms, and then again at about 32,000klms, and then the next time i'm up to do it my tyres are shot. I need to do this as i get a little excess wear on the outside shoulders of the front tyres, a result of occasionally cornering too hard I believe.

However I do seem to notice that my driver's side rear tyre does seem to wear a little quicker...

[Sox]

Like hardware said, don't bother with the spare.

I tend to swap front to rear whenever I see enough sign of wear differences between each end.
Ignore k's, as it will be different for everyone and their own tyres and driving style.
Have a good look at them every 6 months.

[4ford]

When you rotate your tyres, you must retain the correct 'direction of rotation' of the wheels, according to the marking on the tyre sidewall.
That usually means, unless you start turning the tyres on the rims, that you keep the left side and right side wheels on those sides.
By that I mean swapping the front and rears on each side, don't swap sides, otherwise your tyres will be rotating the wrong way.
Most all (but not every make) of tyres dictate the correct direction of rotation, designed to efficiently exclude roadwater at high speeds to avoid aquaplaning. Aquaplaning effectively causes a total lack of tyre contact with the wet road surface, giving you no way of steering or braking! (until you hit something!)
With a 'direction of rotation' marked on your tyre sidewall, and the tyre not fitted correctly, your insurance company will have an easy way to avoid paying out on any claim, regardless if the claim is relevant to the tyres, because the car is deemed unroadworthy!

[4ford]

I'd be interested to know whether your tyre fitter actually fitted the tyres correctly to your rims.
Or maybe he simply 'threw' them on the rims, without aligning the 'light' marks on the sidewalls, as most seem to do!
Proper alignment is designed to minimize the amount of counterweights needed to properly balance your wheels, and in doing so, reduces the overall weight of the rim/tyre combination.

[svo supporter]

Rotation is generally done with the right front becoming the spare....The left rear becomes the right front....The left front the right rear and the spare to the left rear.

The only exception here is with directional tyres for obvious reasons...

Time to do rotations...When you spot signs of feathering on the fronts mainly, as those are the ones that cop the majority of abuse with general day to day commuting....



As for the little dots on the tyre and lining them up for less weight....Rubbish....You have upto 3 different dots to try and line up with the valve, with them all in different locations on the sidewall of the tyre....Makies it rather difficult to line all 3 up with the valve.

If you require less weight, it's a case of turning the tyre 1/4 turn at a time until you have as less a weight as possible...However this then becomes impractible due to time constraints....The best method is, if it requires more than 50grams inside or outside, then do the tyre turn...Otherwise leave it alone.

[4ford]

svo....I beg to differ on your assumptions with regard to the TWO dots marked on new tyres. One is for alignment with the high point of the rim, this one is usually only used when fitting new tyres to new rims, otherwise the "v" marked on the high point of the rim has become unfindable, due wear and tear in use. In the case of the high point on the rim not being ledgable, the other mark is used to align the tyre (its lightest point) with the heaviest point of the rim, the point where the valve is located.
This is the standard for fitting new tyres, and the sole reason for the existence of the applicable marks, and the fitting of tyres according to these marks is certainly not difficult, the fitter simply needs to have the desire to do the fitting job properly!

[Sox]

Originally Posted by 4ford

svo....I beg to differ on your assumptions with regard to the TWO dots marked on new tyres. One is for alignment with the high point of the rim, this one is usually only used when fitting new tyres to new rims, otherwise the "v" marked on the high point of the rim has become unfindable, due wear and tear in use. In the case of the high point on the rim not being ledgable, the other mark is used to align the tyre (its lightest point) with the heaviest point of the rim, the point where the valve is located.
This is the standard for fitting new tyres, and the sole reason for the existence of the applicable marks, and the fitting of tyres according to these marks is certainly not difficult, the fitter simply needs to have the desire to do the fitting job properly!

This bloke is on the money.
Except the 'v' or dimple on the rim is actually the low point. The red dot on the tyre marks it's high point. Semantics I know...

Generally speaking -
Yellow dot goes to the valve stem.
If there's also a red dot, it goes to the valve stem, or the 'v'/dimple.

It's that simple.

I'm surprised 'svo supporter' isn't aware of this, he claims to work in the industry.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Sox

This bloke is on the money.
Except the 'v' or dimple on the rim is actually the low point. The red dot on the tyre marks it's high point. Semantics I know...

Generally speaking -
Yellow dot goes to the valve stem.
If there's also a red dot, it goes to the valve stem, or the 'v'/dimple.

It's that simple.

I'm surprised 'svo supporter' isn't aware of this, he claims to work in the industry.

All tyres have a red dot and a yellow dot...Some also have a green dot...(comes from looking at them for nearly 30 years)

Seeing you're saying you know of the 2 dots, you're claiming you have to put both at the valve stem....Love to see that done, when they're in different positions of the tyre sidewall.

The only time in my fitting life have I had make sure to line a dot up with the valve stem (The red dot BTW), was when Holden manufacturing plant outsourced the fitament of wheels and tyres, due to an upgrade of the tyre machine they had (back in 2002/2003)....Even then, their tolerance for weight was 60 grams maximum on one edge.....So some tyres had to be turned on the rims to meet their criteria. It even meant that no dots lined up against the valve stem.

So yup, I know nothing

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by 4ford

svo....I beg to differ on your assumptions with regard to the TWO dots marked on new tyres. One is for alignment with the high point of the rim, this one is usually only used when fitting new tyres to new rims, otherwise the "v" marked on the high point of the rim has become unfindable, due wear and tear in use. In the case of the high point on the rim not being ledgable, the other mark is used to align the tyre (its lightest point) with the heaviest point of the rim, the point where the valve is located.
This is the standard for fitting new tyres, and the sole reason for the existence of the applicable marks, and the fitting of tyres according to these marks is certainly not difficult, the fitter simply needs to have the desire to do the fitting job properly!

I would dearly love to know, how you line dots up, when they're on assemetrical tyres, or directional tyres, when the dots would be on the inside of the rim, away from the valve, for the tyre to be fitted correctly for their designated purpose? X-ray vision??????

[auIILTD]

All valid points I am sure gents, but can we please take this discussion elsewhere out of OPs quest to find rotation opinions. Maybe the Tyre, Wheel and Mechanical area would be more appropriate.

Thanks for your assistance.

Stu

[Bearman]

Very important to rotate the tyres, usually involving the 4 that are on the car. The spare rarely matches after a couple of sets have been on the car.

The conventional wisdom is to rotate front to rear, rear to front but not diagonally every 10,000km's. This will suit directionals, asymetrics and conventional tread.

It may be necessary to flip directionals at some point if they are not wearing evenly across the tyre. In this case they will need to in turn be swapped diagonally to maintain correct rotation direction on the car.

I had a set of Pirelli P-Zero Nero on my old BA XR6, 235/45x17. From new they were set to 36psi and I missed the first rotation. They did 20,000km before being rotated. I'm a regular driver. Take a look at the difference between front and rear:


When I did get them rotated I ran the rears at 34psi instead of 36psi. It evened up the wear between front and rear for the remainder of the tyres life.

Yes, rotation is VERY important.

[peterljohnson55]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'll need to figure out a plan for rotation.

While I understand the directional issue that directional tyres need to be maintained on one side, I dont understand why non-directional tyres cant be swapped diagonally, and so reverse the direction of travel of the tyre.

On the matter of marks, I checked out the tyres and found at least three different marking systems and they were differently located. Only one tyre had a red spot, and it was placed right next to the valve.

I'll keep working at this. All the best to all.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by peterljohnson55

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'll need to figure out a plan for rotation.

Don't make it too complicated, just swap from front to back. It works well.

While I understand the directional issue that directional tyres need to be maintained on one side, I dont understand why non-directional tyres cant be swapped diagonally, and so reverse the direction of travel of the tyre.

They can be swapped diagonal.

On the matter of marks, I checked out the tyres and found at least three different marking systems and they were differently located. Only one tyre had a red spot, and it was placed right next to the valve.

Yep, like I said above, yellow dot to stem, unless there's a red dot too, then the red dot goes to stem.

I'm sure they're fine, most tyre fitters do know this.
Even if they didn't it won't make any practical difference as they'll have been balanced up anyway.