HSV review - 1st one I've found - Page 3

Express · 12-06-2013, 06:34 PM

I can’t talk for some of the models mentioned but you cannot build a C63 AMG from a C Class Mercedes-Benz unless you first purchase the C63 Chassis.
You cannot fit C63 guards or bonnet to a C Class.
Those who want the look use aftermarket panels as the genuine items are too long for the C Class Chassis.

To combat BMW’s M division, the C63 was the first vehicle where Mercedes-Benz allowed AMG to build a car without using the donor car apart from the basic interior and exterior cosmetics.
The first thing AMG had to do was design a chassis to take the 6.2litre V8 and try and make it handle.
As most car people would know, AMG has a reputation for straight line fast cars that don’t corner very well.
AMG used the C63 as a test to change this.
The car is longer and the engine has been pushed back into the cabin.
Anyone who has spent any real time travelling in a C63 will tell you the heat from the engine being so close to the firewall turns the cabin into a hot box on trips and during hot Aussie summers.

The worldwide marketing success of the C63 allowed AMG to continue with the design and release of the SLS as its first ever stand alone sports car.

Stand alone has now become their new philosophy.

Much the same with the E Class Coupes which are built over C Class Chassis and not the E Class.
They look like their Model designation but they are not.

The GT and GTS are much more than their donors.
But apart from the impracticable cost of building either from a base Falcon or Commodore using genuine parts, it would take far less parts to do it than the C63 as you first have to source a chassis and panels. The C63 doesn’t have a proper donor.

.

zilo · 12-06-2013, 09:58 PM

12 seconds from 0-200km/h in a street car.

and no violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...yUoemzYCo&NR=1

Express · 12-06-2013, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

12 seconds from 0-200km/h in a street car.

and no violence.

It gets mobile.

It’s a shame they didn’t let it run all the way, I would have been interested to see what it was capable of.

The standard C63 with the speed limiter switched off runs to 318km/h.

.

zilo · 13-06-2013, 07:18 PM

I've decided to get one...in the wagon.

Norpus · 14-06-2013, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

I've decided to get one...in the wagon.

A black series C63 tourer zilo.? Very nice choice! Envious I am. Practical with a beautiful note

Brazen · 14-06-2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

I can’t talk for some of the models mentioned but you cannot build a C63 AMG from a C Class Mercedes-Benz unless you first purchase the C63 Chassis.
You cannot fit C63 guards or bonnet to a C Class.
Those who want the look use aftermarket panels as the genuine items are too long for the C Class Chassis.

To combat BMW’s M division, the C63 was the first vehicle where Mercedes-Benz allowed AMG to build a car without using the donor car apart from the basic interior and exterior cosmetics.
The first thing AMG had to do was design a chassis to take the 6.2litre V8 and try and make it handle.
As most car people would know, AMG has a reputation for straight line fast cars that don’t corner very well.
AMG used the C63 as a test to change this.
The car is longer and the engine has been pushed back into the cabin.
Anyone who has spent any real time travelling in a C63 will tell you the heat from the engine being so close to the firewall turns the cabin into a hot box on trips and during hot Aussie summers.

The worldwide marketing success of the C63 allowed AMG to continue with the design and release of the SLS as its first ever stand alone sports car.

Stand alone has now become their new philosophy.

Much the same with the E Class Coupes which are built over C Class Chassis and not the E Class.
They look like their Model designation but they are not.

The GT and GTS are much more than their donors.
But apart from the impracticable cost of building either from a base Falcon or Commodore using genuine parts, it would take far less parts to do it than the C63 as you first have to source a chassis and panels. The C63 doesn’t have a proper donor.

.

AMG don't use a changed chassis for purity, it simply is because the V8 won't fit in something like the base c class which is not much bigger than a Corolla. FPV and HSV don't have that issue.

tex · 14-06-2013, 09:02 AM

Thats not a car review.

And reference (comparison) cant be made to any other car as a result of that 'review'

Someone said that the GT335 is doing ok in comparison to the new GTS (based on that 'review" .......

Um, not sure how any conclusion can be reached.

Guzz226 · 14-06-2013, 06:01 PM

Back to the original post

Really hope that Ford produce something comparable - always dreamt of owning a GT but need Ford to be making one for me to buy!

A similar Ford offering for similar money to the GTS - where do I pay my deposit?

I can only hope Ford are listening, otherwise I hate to admit I will be tempted by the Dark Side

burnz · 14-06-2013, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

It gets mobile.

It’s a shame they didn’t let it run all the way, I would have been interested to see what it was capable of.

The standard C63 with the speed limiter switched off runs to 318km/h.

.

nothing to special, a regular SS commo does 305Kph with the limiter removed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxFCJWEfM7U

**PridenJoy** · 14-06-2013, 08:54 PM

^^Sounds like a VW Beetle. Is that tic tic noise the engine?!

Random Ranger · 14-06-2013, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PridenJoy

^^Sounds like a VW Beetle. Is that tic tic noise the engine?!

Radio antenna hitting the roof? My navara used to do it at about half that speed,-nearly wet my pants the first time it did it.

zilo · 14-06-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

nothing to special, a regular SS commo does 305Kph with the limiter removed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxFCJWEfM7U

The body harmonics would be frightening at that speed in a commodore.

Express · 19-06-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

AMG don't use a changed chassis for purity, it simply is because the V8 won't fit in something like the base c class which is not much bigger than a Corolla. FPV and HSV don't have that issue.

That’s not the story Mercedes-Benz pushed in it official publication and is totally at odds with what AMG were telling visitors to their factory in 2011.

AMG talked about the number of engine options that were R&D prior to the parent company allowing them to start afresh so they could overcome some of the inherent handling problems with the C Class. That allowed the 6.2L option to gain momentum and eventually be approved.

Maybe I’ve just fallen for MB’s marketing spin, so I will happily bow to your argument as you’ve possibly privy to inside info that I’m not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

nothing to special, a regular SS commo does 305Kph with the limiter removed...

.

Lardman · 20-06-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teak81

Why bother with 265 front and 275 rears? Just make it the same all round or go overboard on the rear.

Afaik understeer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yeap, I'd like to know the brand of this mystery car that doesn't depreciate much too, please do tell !!

It can't be a Euro, because from personal experience you will get yourself the depreciation belting of your lifetime buying a new or near new high spec Euro.

E30 M3's have started to go up again, but yes - no car retains its value unless it's a once off. Collectibles like the upcoming LaFerrari and P1 will dip and go back up, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

By that reasoning a c63 is only a tarted up c180 and a waste of money lol. Wonderful reasoning....

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinijosh

M3 is a tarted up 3 series, Audi RS3 is a tarted up a3... Why is that a problem in your mind?

I never said it was a waste of money, you're making up reasoning now.

They are, but substantially so - elements of the interior of all 3 remain the same, but underneath there's pretty much completely new drivetrain components, wider track, so on.

Saying that it's simply "A xyz with just a bigger engine" shows you have a distinct lack of understanding of the engineering tests they need to pass to a) be worthy of the badges they wear, and b) safety and performance expectations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

12 seconds from 0-200km/h in a street car.

and no violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...yUoemzYCo&NR=1

Uh, yeah - you haven't seen what a twin turbo M5 can do, or for that matter things like the Agera R?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aN8H2U0RKY

Alan D Segal · 20-06-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

nothing to special, a regular SS commo does 305Kph with the limiter removed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxFCJWEfM7U

Doesn't sound that 'regular', wouldn't expect a standard SS car to have that kind of note, even at high rpm. Methinks that one has had a bit of work done beyond just removing the rev limiter.

EDIT: I can't read arabic so can't even tell what the description says

351@GT · 20-06-2013, 10:51 AM

dont the export SS run the 6.2?

Chopped · 20-06-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 351@GT

dont the export SS run the 6.2?

I think only the US version got that.

GQ_Smooth · 20-06-2013, 11:32 AM

And paddle shifts from what I've read.

fgpsi · 20-06-2013, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

And paddle shifts from what I've read.

Paddle shift in a GM tranny

Rodge · 20-06-2013, 01:00 PM

Well not all is great with the all new GTS. Spent a bit of time on the lsi forum yesterday, lots of oders and those who want something other than a can of goo as their spare tyre, (a can of goo as you spare in Australia's wide open spaces

), have ordered a spare wheel as an optional extra...but it has to go into a strapped position on top of the boot floor as the normal cavity is used up by the strengthened running gear.

So if you want to show off to a couple of your mates on your way to the golf course, one or two of you will have to use rented clubs or if you're planning a long road trip with all your family and their gear, you'll need a trailer

mcnews · 20-06-2013, 01:59 PM

At least that shows thorough engineering above and beyond the donor car, awesome.

Rodge · 20-06-2013, 02:05 PM

Yeap, it has the big diff and strengthened running gear mostly from the W427.
I hear even the auto box from the CTS-V has been strengthened, which surprises me considering they're runnign the same engine arn't they ? not that it would interest you much Trev, pretty much a given you'd buy the manual.
I'm not ruling out buying a GTS if my boat sells, (don't play golf anymore and the kids have grown up and left home)

lucas2 · 20-06-2013, 02:19 PM

This is going to be very interesting..
This stock Cadillac with the LSA ran up 291rwkw, and after tune with VCM it managed 308rwkw. I wonder how different the HSV version will be in terms of the tune etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fqU8X4Atc

Alan D Segal · 20-06-2013, 02:59 PM

The version used in the Camaro ZL1 and the GTS is a slightly uprated version of the one in the CTS-V. It has 15kw more than the cadillac one. So based on that video it should be around 310rwkw.

stazza · 20-06-2013, 02:59 PM

Is the cadillac the same 430kw that hsv is claiming?

If so thats laughable. Most of the 5.0 FPVs are getting more rwhp pre tune than that cadillac tuned.

Alan D Segal · 20-06-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

Is the cadillac the same 430kw that hsv is claiming?

No. It is claimed to be 415kw. The HSV is claimed to be 430kw.

Rodge · 20-06-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucas2

This is going to be very interesting..
This stock Cadillac with the LSA ran up 291rwkw, and after tune with VCM it managed 308rwkw. I wonder how different the HSV version will be in terms of the tune etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fqU8X4Atc

WOW... Thanks heaps for posting, that's very interesting.
Well my car, (completly stock) ran 304 rwkw's on the well respected no B.S. Mainline dyno exactly the same as that one and 312.9 rwkw's with a new BMC filter only, no tune....and HSV are claiming these new GTS's have 430 crankshaft KW's. Hmmm
I'd speculate if this info was posted on the LS1.co.au forum there would be a few people feeling a little deflated. If I joined that forum and made this my opening post complete with that link, what a great way to make friends and influence people

Alan D Segal · 20-06-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

If I joined that forum and made this my opening post complete with that link, what a great way to make friends and influence people

DO IT

stazza · 20-06-2013, 03:36 PM

If you don't I will.

Rodge · 20-06-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

If you don't I will.

Post it in the thread where everyone's signed up with their deposits waiting for their new GTS's

It'd be like dropping a bloody nuke into their forum

I'm getting too old to be bothered with the fallout... so you you go for it mate

Drop that Nuke right here mate http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...red-A-VF-Gen-F