China about to land probe on Moon.

[poppa smurf]

China won't throw anything toward us, won't be much longer and they will own Australia anyway.

I don't reckon a shorter lifespan will be a deterrent for China, not real great on human rights as it is, so I think a moon base would be first priority with survivability a secondary thought.

I don't know what the death rate or the longevity expectation would be but if it were severe then China would "rotate" the crew before too many deaths attracted the world attention, not that that would make much difference to them anyway, China does what China wants.

I don't know what minerals are there or how to retrieve them, assuming they would want to but if it is worthwhile it will be done.

[comagutsa]

wasnt there an experiment somewhere that lock a few people away in a dome or something for year/s and had to survive like they were living in the moon base or something to see the effects of long term exposure to themselves and the confinement??
but like you said smurf they would rotate them out to keep stuff quiet

as for mining the moon that would cause a bit of an uproar in the world

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

wasnt there an experiment somewhere that lock a few people away in a dome or something for year/s and had to survive like they were living in the moon base or something to see the effects of long term exposure to themselves and the confinement??
but like you said smurf they would rotate them out to keep stuff quiet

as for mining the moon that would cause a bit of an uproar in the world

Yes there was. Testing psychologically if people could live together in confinement for long periods. Not testing effects of less than or zero gravity and what effects solar flare radiation has long term.

[poppa smurf]

it would be a great thing to behold though, humans taking the "next" step.

[MrXR8]

There is a lot of prep involved in getting to mars. Propulsion needs improvement, however what we currently have is adequate.... Sort of. Then there is radiation shielding. We have not found an adequate shield for the suns radiation. Landing will be an issue with landing a heavy structure on the planets surface. Can't roll a inflatable ball like the probes too heavy. Then they need to sustain themselves for a year as they need to jump ahead of earths orbit as they potentially need earth to run into them as earth is quicker then the shuttle. Just a few issues as well as creating fuel for the return trip as they can't take it with them.

[poppa smurf]

just heard on the news that china is planning a permanent moon base by 2020.

I wonder what the US will do.......another "space race"

Hmmm! this mirrors pretty much my thoughts and concerns....... http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-manned...215600572.html

[MrXR8]

I wonder who the next Kennedy will be. Will it be Obama who calls the start of the race take2?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

China announced that they will share their findings with everyone, which I think is great.

Something humankind can benefit from.

Which Nasa did also.
They lent moon rocks to just about every major University in the World

[MrXR8]

It's nice to know that no matter which nation we are and what beliefs we have we can still cooperate where science is concerned.

[Road_Warrior]

This event is a signpost of China's and the world's future. This shows they are no longer the commie backwater selling ****** reverse engineered products to flea markets. The level of resources and expertise needed to pull this off shows they are the real deal: the next bona fide superpower.

[MrXR8]

And how do the usual superpowers feel having to either let china have its day or reach deep into its proverbial pockets and scrape together what ever few dollars (borrowed) it has left to compete in this battle of space supremacy. China has no ego to bruise as it has not done anything too spectacular till now. Go the underdog.

[Nikked]

Will this trigger a new space race?

[CoupeKing]

One Aircraft Carrier and a Moon buggy, lookout guys.

Meanwhile on Kepler.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Will this trigger a new space race?

Hopefully, so much technology comes out of these "races".

Even the cold war is responsible for some interesting inventions.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Hopefully, so much technology comes out of these "races".

Even the cold war is responsible for some interesting inventions.

As an minor aviation enthusiast, that whole era is still the most exciting...probably second to only the first world war...

[Madaya]

Great to hear so many good comments. There is a great depth of knowledge out there in AFF land.
Sorry I didn't get to see the 'landing' link until late in the process.
I subscribe to the thread, Unmanned Spaceflight.com, whose members are real wiz kid types. Some of them have grabbed hold of old NASA or USSR raw data and found things in there that has remained hidden for years.
A big find was locating on Mars, the Russian, Mars3 lander, a probe that reached the Red Planet in 1970, but shut down after 30 seconds on the surface after sending a tantalising few lines of a black and white TV picture from Mars. There is still conjecture of whether the few lines actually imaged the surface.
Finding the probe, whose whereabouts was at best vague was amazing. Sitting there on Mars for around 40 years, covered in dust, a machine not much bigger than your kitchen table. But NASA's Mars Recon Orbiter which can see objects on the planets surface as big as a microwave oven, took an image of the region it set down.
The folk on UMS.com scour these images and they found it!

Now China are on the Moon. One small step.

Let's look at the big picture. Not many nations are as big, both size and population as China and population wise, it is growing still bigger. The limit to growth is basically one of two things, consumption and excretion. China consumes a lot of raw materials, (turns them into things we like to use), but as is evident, is drowning in it's - excreta i.e. pollution. A thing which benefits neither them or us.

This 'small step', is an indication that China realises that the Earth is a finite resource. Sure, we all think along the terms of invasion and other military action - I think this argy bargy over a few islands in dispute with Japan is just the Red Army not wanting to be left out of the picture (it is still a very influential force). But at the end of the day, they realise that the only way out is up.

Now I'm not sure of what the UN decrees are regarding the Moon. Sure, you cannot actually claim a piece of the Moon as 'Australia's new state'. But if you wanted the resources of the Moon, I think, you are welcome to it.

The Lunar regolith (soil) is a good mix of Aluminium, Iron, Titanium, Silicon and many of the other useful metals. Another thing the Moon has plenty of is Oxygen, combined with the metals. Good thing about the Moon is it has no atmosphere. You just get a swag of this stuff, heat it in a furnace and off comes the Oxygen (very useful stuff), and the metals sinter off. You ladel the Aluminium here, the Iron there etc. - Can't do that on Earth.

One sixth gravity, probably not a big problem for Astronauts, at least you have an up and down. The deleterious effects of zero g would be much lessened. Solar storms, you either build underground or dump heaps of Moon dust on your compartments. You may only need a 'cellar' to protect you for the duration of the storm.

Build a base at the Lunar poles, you may even have access to water.

Sorry for the big reply. I know we look forward to going to Mars, but we have this amazing place 3 days rocket from here (rather than 9 to 12 months). Sure Mars is a planet, but from a business and resource point of view, we have it all here in our backyard.

Yeah we can dream if Mars has or once had life. One thing we know for sure, there is life here on planet Earth and unless we up our game, there may not be the life we are accustomed to here for much longer.

I think you would we hard pressed to say you can pollute the Moon.

Just thoughts.

Cheers.

[MrXR8]

And having one sixth earths gravity you can move more raw materials faster!

[poppa smurf]

The moon will only be a stepping stone, used for experimentation and for its resources and low gravity for space exploration.

I would love to see a "space race" but it will not happen, USA co are broke, no country can do anything on its own and they are all too eager to get rich to co-operate to do it together.

The world is a different place now than it was when we walked on the moon, greed rules now.

I fear The Chinese will build a base and keep all knowledge to themselves as well as all benefits, there has been very little co-operation with the west in millennia, they have changed little (only changed that which had to be changed) and answer to nobody,.......this could be a catalyst for the next war.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by MrXR8

China has no ego to bruise as it has not done anything too spectacular till now.

I think China has a long illustrious history of spectacular achievements, social, economic, scientific, inventive etc for thousands of years. This is just another example.

JP

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I think China has a long illustrious history of spectacular achievements, social, economic, scientific, inventive etc for thousands of years. This is just another example.

JP

I meant in regards to space not past achievements

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by MrXR8

I meant in regards to space not past achievements

fair enough...I wonder how many parts on the space shuttles or russian rockets were actually made in China

JP

[mik]

A couple of thoughts come to mind with colonizing the moon and mining, the resources, while there maybe agreements on. " no one owns the moon", I believe it would amount to first in best dressed, and that would be fair enough in my view.
And as mr spock would say ........... "it is only logical". for us to be making an effort to take that first step to start getting humans living on the moon and beyond, be it chinese , or any race , because like the dinosaurs, the numbers are against us,
an asteroid could take us out, jellystone which was reported recently to be twice or three times the size of first thoughts and could erupt at any time and take us out,
the Fukishima thing is far from over, I heard on the grape vine earths magnetic field (unconfirmed) may have lost another 5% of its magnetic field that protects us from the solar wind possibly down 15%............
another old saying comes to mind....... here for a good time .... not a long time , if the chinese get a colony working and living on the moon and shares their smarts, that has to be a good thing imo.

[comagutsa]

yeah the earth magnetic poles are way over due to reverse from what i have read, that will explain for the magnetic field getting weaker , been happening since begining

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

fair enough...I wonder how many parts on the space shuttles or russian rockets were actually made in China

JP

Lol good point. Look closely for the made in China stamp in plastic

[comagutsa]

what out for the sun people , its poles are swaping anyday now.. wonder if that will affect their moon rover and stuff..

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technolog...ip-upside-down

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

what out for the sun people , its poles are swaping anyday now.. wonder if that will affect their moon rover and stuff..

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technolog...ip-upside-down

Wow did not know that! Learn something new everyday.

[comagutsa]

heres a good read for you then about earths poles
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...eReversal.html

[mik]

Originally Posted by MrXR8

Wow did not know that! Learn something new everyday.

indeed, we go about our lives like ants not even realizing the big stuff that has been going on around us eons, just amazing stuff.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by mik

indeed, we go about our lives like ants not even realizing the big stuff that has been going on around us eons, just amazing stuff.

I agree, so much to know though. Not many can take it all in and keep it there. Not to mention have the time to dedicate to learning everything or enough to not be an ant.

Or

Science is a crock made up to keep us poor and allow big brother to tax us!, thats all we need to know?

JP

[MrXR8]

There is so much we can learn out there that will help us better know about our own planet. As a race we need to terraform other planets and moons out there so that all our eggs arnt in one bi proverbial basket. Yet we spend all our money on war and rubbish.