Engine Oil Spec for Longevity?

[5thFordWA]

Mine is a Territory SZ MkII (Petrol), but I guess this is similar for other current models:

The Service book advises engine oil spec "For optimum fuel economy use 5W-30" oil. Has anyone ever asked what oil would be best "For optimum Engine Life"? Just asking. I can't find any other spec in the book for operation in high temp or continuous long distance driving, or even after the engine reaches a higher mileage.

I really think Ford should spell this out and let the owner choose if they would sacrifice a smidgin of economy to obtain a percentage increase in engine life.

Any opinions - or actual knowledge of slightly higher viscosities to be beneficial?

[GO FURTHER]

I would suggest that regular oil changes with good quality oil are more important than deviating from the car manufacturer's recommended oil specification and grade if longevity is one's goal.

[mike_nofx]

My opinion is if they specifically state its recommended for fuel economy then it’s going to be on the thinner side.

Did 400k on 10w-40, and father did 650k on 10w-40. Both Falcons.
Remember, fuel economy figures are more important to a manufacturer than having an engine do half a million kilometres.

Having said that, you’d likely still get half a million kilometres from a Ford 6 regardless of oil as long as it’s close to spec.

[janddbone]

I continue to recommend a 50 for the 4.0.

[ebv8]

just don't wait till 15000km to change your oil, doing so will make sure your engine lasts untill the warranty runs out and not much more, halve it and do it at 7500km or 12 months max.
oil is cheap these days and buy a 10 pack of filters on ebay and oil changes are cheap insurance
i have a 2008 e-gas and the book says 15w-40 which i find strange as its the same engine as yours and it takes 5w-30.

you might find in the book it recommends 7500km oil changes if you do highway, traffic, towing, high speed, low speed, stop start, continuous driving, and so-on...basically tells you to do it at 7500kms

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

I would suggest that regular oil changes with good quality oil are more important than deviating from the car manufacturer's recommended oil specification and grade if longevity is one's goal.

Agreed.

I have pulled my AUII engine to give it a freshen up from oil leaks etc. (185,000km) The cylinder bores still have the cross hatching from the original honing by Ford. Valves & guides are great and everything appears to be as spec to date. I have owned it since new and given it regular quality mineral oil changes. 10W-30 as specified by Ford. My bitcoins worth 😜
cheers
Bill.

[Spammy]

Back in the day I used to get our Territory serviced at the local Ford dealer (big mistake) and they kept refilling with 10-40w. One day I questioned the service manager and he was adament 10-40w as the factory recommended oil for a SY and that 5-30w was only for "hi tech" engines.

This debate went on for 15mins and I copped a spray of "I have been working on cars for 25 years", "we do 2 dozen of these a day" & " I don't make this stuff up".

So I pulled out the owners handbook and showed him the section detailing that 5-30w was the recommended weight. He sheepishly took the handbook away to photocopy the page so he could show the other mechanics.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by janddbone

I continue to recommend a 50 for the 4.0.

Putting 50 grade in an N/A 4.0 is just adding extra unnecessary stress and wear on the oil pump leading to premature failure.

The Turbo 4.0's take 40 grade, and I have even run 50 grade from Penrite, but the forced induction engines can run hotter, so benefit from the extra viscosity.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Putting 50 grade in an N/A 4.0 is just adding extra unnecessary stress and wear on the oil pump leading to premature failure.

The Turbo 4.0's take 40 grade, and I have even run 50 grade from Penrite, but the forced induction engines can run hotter, so benefit from the extra viscosity.

Engine runs at roughly the same temp.

The difference is the turbo and I suspect like a jet engine the turbo uses oil predominately for cooling the bearings. Thicker oil will aid in this, as will synthetics.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Agreed.

I have pulled my AUII engine to give it a freshen up from oil leaks etc. (185,000km) The cylinder bores still have the cross hatching from the original honing by Ford. Valves & guides are great and everything appears to be as spec to date. I have owned it since new and given it regular quality mineral oil changes. 10W-30 as specified by Ford. My bitcoins worth 😜
cheers
Bill.

Not sure that’s the greatest endorsement having pulled an engine out at 185, considering these engines regularly nudge the 1million km mark without ever being pulled.

[383hq]

If you are worried about engine life, consider monitoring/sampling your engine oil at regular intervals. The change in viscosity and film strength (amongst other characteristics) of the oil during its life in the engine will be critical to engine life.

Oil sampling is the only way you will be able to understand how much life is left in the oil and its potential impact on your engine

Most on here will be looking for new vehicles LONG before their engine starts to show significant wear when using OEM recommended oils/change intervals.

To the other posts
thinner oil can move through the engine quicker than thicker oil,providing better lube at start up,
thinner oil can remove heat quicker at the boundary layer- many race engines have shown lower oil temps on thinner oil because of this.

In Australia very few people have to worry about the first number (winter grade) as it matters only when temps are well below zero deg C

Me ? I run a synthetic (usually what ever is on special) at recommended change intervals whether its a 5w30 or a 10w 40 in the daily hack. Engineers added extra litres of oil just for extended oil change intervals for the average driver, and this should be considered (along with the improved manufacture and quality of modern engine oils)

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Not sure that’s the greatest endorsement having pulled an engine out at 185, considering these engines regularly nudge the 1million km mark without ever being pulled.

I could have left it like it was but want to keep it in good shape for the long haul.

It has given me 17 years so that is enough of an endorsement for me.

In context of the original post my comment is valid.

[MattstaF6]

I have a BF Typhoon and I use 10w-60 oil. Oil analysis has shown many times that a 50 or 60 weight oil is better for Barra Turbo engines. I haven't heard of oil pumps failing because of thicker oil and most performance places will usually put in a 50 or 60 weight oil. Steve for Mainlube is a chemical engineer and he recommends a 10w-60 weight oil and has done many tests. Not saying to put the 60 weight in but I would be going the 40 weight over the 30.

[Maka]

A engine oil with a acea a3 - b3/b4 spec will provide better top end wear protection anyday than a ilsac gf5 fuel conserving engine oil.

Its whats in the additive package thats more important than grade or thickness, knowing that could get extra longevity from your engine.

cheers, Maka

[Jastel]

In the cabs I run whatever brand/viscosity is on special at Supercrap or Ricebarn at the time...10000kms intervals.
So long as it meets the specs, most these days are SN which is above what is needed.

Never had a major engine problem, apart from the odd leak around the joins as they all do, since the E series. Throw them away around the 500000km mark as the car falls apart around it. When they get over 350K some burn a bit of oil especially up here in the heat and I tend to use 20/50 in them.

[slowsnake]

Hello,
I own an Au2 Fairmont, 400,000 klm on the clock, I go to Supercheap and ask at the counter which is the cheapest engine oil on special for petrol engine.
They ask what grade?..I say " Thick " and go buy it and leave, my car uses less than 1 litre a year, just the odd leak and it must burn the rest through friction!

Under my oil cap is clean as a whistle, it blows zero smoke!


Cheers Billy.

[aussieturtle]

Hi

5W50 synthetic in ours.

BMW E36 318IS (Supercharged) 494000km so far....
Falcon BF XR8 298000km so far....

Both unopened and 15000km intervals.

Your choice.

Cheers
Tom

[au350hp]

Penrite HPR 5W40 & a new oil filter every 5000 kms preceded with a bottle of Penrite engine flush before draining. I have always been of the belief that changing oil & filters as soon as the oil is dirty, rather than a certain mileage will result in better reliability. I tend to change mine at 3000 kms which many find amusing, but the 17 year old motor with 115,000kms has no leaks and uses no oil. Iv'e never understood running a motor with filthy black oil considering how cheap and easy it is to replace. The damage is done on cold starts, so clean fresh oil must be better than dirty old oil with 9 or 10,000 kms I would imagine. I

[Mechan1k]

I just use what is recommended .... as I don't have high performance vehicles .... but change the interval back to 10,000km .... cos it is easier to remember more than anything. And it is just under the 1 year mark for me anyway.

[Maka]

Found this interesting tid bit which cleary states in black & white -

"The push for fuel economy from ILSAC and API, couples with the lack of HTHS viscosity limits, promotes low viscosity engine oils that compromise long-term durability."

https://techmax.ca/engine-oil-essentials.htm

I wont run a ilsac gf5 spec oil in my well travelled sohc i6 engine ever again as im more interested in engine longevity now than outright fuel economy. Since ditching the factory recommended fuel conserving gf5 spec oil for a better more robust oil, my engine is a lot more quiet than before especially at startup.

If you run a factory recommended fuel conserving engine oil in a engine with over 200,000km on it or more imo i think you need to reconsider the choice if you want it to last a very long time. Thats my call!

cheers, Maka

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by Maka

A engine oil with a acea a3 - b3/b4 spec will provide better top end wear protection anyday than a ilsac gf5 fuel conserving engine oil.

Its whats in the additive package thats more important than grade or thickness, knowing that could get extra longevity from your engine.

cheers, Maka

Some oils are GF5 rated ... but do have the additives for this protection as well.

Penrite HPR 5 for instance comes under the category.

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/produc...full-synthetic

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Some oils are GF5 rated ... but do have the additives for this protection as well.

Penrite HPR 5 for instance comes under the category.

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/produc...full-synthetic

Thats right Mechan1k, Penrite's Hpr 5 is firstly a acea a3 b4 engine oil & Penrite are saying its quite fine to use in engines specced for a gf5 oil like im saying, its a more robust oil by its specs & grade compared to the Ford factory recommended Territory 10w30 grade engine oil.

Supercheap specs for Penrite Hpr 5 are -

5 Litre
5W-40
API SN/CF
ACEA A3/B4
Full Synthetic
Extra ten provides an extra layer of engine protection
Full zinc additive package for superior engine wear protection
Latest oil technology for less wear, sludge & piston deposits
OEM approved to maintain manufacturers’ warranty & specifications
JASO MA, MB-Approved

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Pro...-5-Litre/14911

If people dont want to run a 40 grade like the Hpr 5 there are acea A3 B4 5/10w30 engine oils which are the popular Ford factory recommended Falcon & Territory engine oil grades.

cheers, Maka

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by ebv8

just don't wait till 15000km to change your oil, doing so will make sure your engine lasts untill the warranty runs out and not much more, halve it and do it at 7500km or 12 months max.

If an engine can only last until just after the end of warranty doing the manufactured specified oil changes then there is a serious problem with those engines.

Its been proven time and time again, the Falcon six is hard as nails and simply doesn't need that much babying. In normal driving, the engine will almost certainly outlast the rest of the vehicle, including the transmission so i'm not sure why you would double the oil change interval. The car would be passed its economic viability before the engine died using normal servicing.

[Maka]

Severe duty is probably the new normal imo if you think about how these vehicles/engines are mainly used these days ie: stop start.

So imo you are both correct Kieron & ebv8, the Falcon i6 is a long life, bulletproof engine but theres nothing wrong in extending its life by shorter o/c intervals.

Its in the oil choice were there may be a wastage of money, for example changing out expensive top of the line long life/extended interval full synthetic's too early but ilsac gf5 semi synthetics & dino or mineral engine oils are the ones that can & should be changed a bit earlier depending on usage & ambient temps etc.

Its up to the vehicle owners to make that educated choice i guess, but each probably works out about the same in dollar terms.

cheers, Maka

[Kieron]

Defining severe duty is the question Maka.

Look at Jastel's post earlier in this thread. It's safe to say his cabs are severe duty compared to the average car and he's using the cheapest oil every 10K and dumps them at half a million as the rest of the car is junk.

Most of us here are car fans and we aren't likely to run them for half a mill as we will want a new toy. I'm up to 176xxxk's in my FG XR8, normal servicing every 15K with the correct spec oil since new, engine is sweet as a nut and served its purpose well. I'll keep it for another 70 or so thou, pretty sure it will easily do that.

[5thFordWA]

Thanks all, for the many contributions on this thread, and interesting comments.
As a former mechanic myself (many years ago), I have often come across genuine industry articles which question the compromise between "fuel-saving" oil specs and "engine longevity".

What I see in the Service Handbook (as per pic in post #1) is the oil spec for optimum fuel economy, emissions and performance - no mention of engine life at all. I think it would be nice to see the alternate recommendation for optimum engine longevity. Many owners, like myself, are intending to keep their new vehicle for at least 10 years, and may choose to sacrifice possibly unmeasurable gains in fuel economy, to guarantee best engine life. I believe from BA onwards, the Achilles Heel of the Ford 6 is the single row timing chain, and lubrication is even more important.

Many good opinions here on this thread, and I probably feel more comfortable in using the specified oils for at least the first half of the vehicle's life.

Originally Posted by Maka

Found this interesting tid bit which cleary states in black & white -
"The push for fuel economy from ILSAC and API, couples with the lack of HTHS viscosity limits, promotes low viscosity engine oils that compromise long-term durability."
https://techmax.ca/engine-oil-essentials.htm

Yes, I believe this is the situation.

Originally Posted by Bill M

I have pulled my AUII engine to give it a freshen up from oil leaks etc. (185,000km) The cylinder bores still have the cross hatching from the original honing by Ford. Valves & guides are great and everything appears to be as spec to date. I have owned it since new and given it regular quality mineral oil changes. 10W-30 as specified by Ford. My bitcoins worth ��

Thanks, Bill, this is good info, and gives me at least some confidence in the low viscosity oils being recommended these days.


The good thing is, that regardless of oils used, the Ford 6 seems to survive for many years and kms.

Cheers.

[Mechan1k]

The only times I used a cheaper oil was in the EGAS utes I used for work (and play) ... they only need 15W40 (as gas is less cooling in the combustion chamber than petrol). But I checked a fair chunk of kays on it .... so did oil changes once a month literally (5,000km) and oil filter every second month.

It was classed under severe duty as well. But I just made sure i swapped out the oil often enough in it. Oil never looked black (but that's cos LPG doesn't soot up oil like petrol can).

The new Territory barely gets driving much ... so will just stay with the factory specs and factory oil change intervals for now (it's 2 years old with about 20,000km on it).

The FG ... it's 8 years old with 190,000km on it .... I just drop the change interval to 10,000km as I mentioned above ... and use Penrite HPR5

And as mentioned ... the engine in these are strong ... the ancilliaries are not

[Junkyard-Dog]

Falcon six is hard to kill. I've killed a couple of Falcons in my time but I've never done any serious damage to the engine. Just service every 10,000km.

Don't idle it to warm up, just drive normally.

[whynot]

Before even getting to the question of engine longevity, the first question is what is the ambient temperatures the engine is exposed to? Oil viscosity index is primarily about the thickness of the oil at 0 degrees C and the thickness of the oil at 100 degrees Celsius.

These two indexes cover the period of greatest mechanical wear on the engine. Cold start and high load in hot conditions.

If the car operates, say around the Snowy Mountains or Tasmania, then I would be inclined to use oils with a lower viscosity index (i.e 5W-30). If the car operates in in the tropics, I would consider 10W-40, particularly if the car has over 100,000km. If the car operates in the outback (sub-zero most nights in winter and +35C most days in summer), then two oil changes per year (pre-winter using 5W as the lower number) and pre-summer (using 40W or even a 50W as the upper number) might be considered. For the rest of us who live in and around the capital cities, the manufacture's recommendation would be the best.

Also, don't forget that short run times can be the most damaging conditions for an engine. The reason is that the oil fails to reach the burn off temperature of the water contaminants, which in turn feed contribute to acids developing in the oil that results in premature wear. Remember that oil changes are based on either distance or time, whichever is the first reached.

A final point, changing engine oil is expensive. Both for the hip pocket (around $100 per change if you do it yourself), and generates environment waste that must be managed. Like most things in life, every decision involves trade offs. Just don't get sucked into unnecessarily changing engine oil on the false belief that it will save money down the track. For the vast majority, simply following manufacture's recommendations will result in the engine outlasting the rest of the car.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Engine runs at roughly the same temp.

The difference is the turbo and I suspect like a jet engine the turbo uses oil predominately for cooling the bearings. Thicker oil will aid in this, as will synthetics.

only problem with this is the thicker grade oils take longer to get to those turbo bearings / cam actuators, especially in cold weather you could be doing more harm than good