Roundabout Incident - Who is at Fault?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

So, who is at fault?

Interested to see how many different opinions we get on this one.

[Mechan1k]

To me 4WD .... that left lane in that round about is straight through (to the left) only.
Although the sign says otherwise though.

BUT ... he crossed a SOLID centre line (which is poorly marked I might add ... as it shouldn't be there)

It's the back of the Ingleburn Industrial area from memory.

Mind you though ... if I wanted to take the 2nd exit through that round about .... I wouldn't be using the lane the 4WD was using. Due to commonsense and safety reasons.
You can see from the speed that the 4WD entered .. the drive was on a mission and trying to prove a point ... just to post that video.

I didn't vote on the options ... I would place it down to poor road planning and signage being the fault here.

[aussiblue]

4WD .... that left lane in that round about is straight through only.

That's what I though at first but the lane they are exiting is the first lane after they entered not the second; so bear that in mind while looking at the directional arrows when they entered the roundabout. Bound to confuse drivers though.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

That's what I though at first but the lane they are exiting is the first lane after they entered not the second; so bear that in mind while looking at the directional arrows when they entered the roundabout. Bound to confuse drivers though.

I edited my post a few times.

it's a dodgy roundabout (in a dodgy area) to begin with.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

So, who is at fault?

Interested to see how many different opinions we get on this one.

I would like to see the clip but for some reason my computer doesn't show it. Got a regular link.

[Crazy Dazz]

My first inclination is to blame the cam owner for his terrible music.

After that, you really can lay the blame with the road engineers for their poor signage.
The Red car is clearly at fault, but you can understand where the confusion lies.

The operation of the roundabout appears to be standard, and the signage reflects that, however the oblique angle of the roads makes it confusing.
The Cam car is in the left lane and is permitted to take the first exit left, or carry on straight (taking the 2nd exit) and is apparently doing the latter.
The Red car is in the right lane, and is therefore only permitted to go straight (2nd exit) or "right" (3rd exit) but instead tries to take the 1st exit.
They might have thought they were going "straight", when in fact they were taking the cross-road exit, at maybe 135 degrees.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

So, who is at fault?

The idiot who painted the arrows...

[roKWiz]

Uh found it, I reckon red car in right lane should be veering (right) which is straight on as his lane markings clearly show he can not veer or turn left at that exit.
4x4 can turn left or veer straight on as his lane marking clearly show IMO.
However road marking are confusing because of the approach. note the road sign in green just before the entrance to the roundabout.

[simon varley]

at 14 secs it is 100% clear from the marking on the road that the RH lane is for straight ahead and right turn only. Repeated at 16 s. Red car should also signal, which it doesn't look like it is doing. However Mr 4WD is a dick.

[cs123]

The left lane has arrows for turning left and straight ahead.
The right lane has arrows for straight ahead turning right

However, the first left turn is pretty straight and that is confusing.



The exit has 2 lanes and also seems to be marked for 2 lanes to exit



So all up I think the roundabout is marked incorrectly..... The arrows are misleading as the arrow implies you can go straight from either lane and the road looks straight, it has 2 lanes to exit (and in that case the red car has right of way) but the left lane is the only one allowed that exit according to the arrows.

So the red car is at fault....but the roundabout is a mess....

[EgoFG]

I voted for the cam car at fault, as I thought the exit that the red car took was a "straight ahead" exit. And I guess that there were bogus markings on the entry, indicating a left that was not there.
But on seeing the sign it is obvious that the last exit less than 180 degrees is when the Cam car planned to exit. The red car was turning left, and in the wrong lane.


Interestingly, if the red car had actually entered on a prior entrance(having come from Ingleburn), the cam car would have been at fault (traffic already in roundabout).




Actually we should have known - the red car always has to give way !

[Giant Cranium]

red car at fault, his lane says straight or right so that means second and third exit, he punched it left which is the first exit

[aussiblue]

The 4WD cam car might also have been so high off the ground to obscure the view to the left and it may have assumed it had past a left entrance. The continuing lane dividing lines on the exit don't help as the create an impression that both lanes exit there and should be removed and instead a painted island painted across the centre lane exit there. Bad road engineering by NSW road.

[marty351]

Cam car clearly at fault. Regardless of road markings or signage, cam car changes lanes without due care. Had he obeyed the left lane and stayed within it, no accident would have occurred.

[JasonACT]

So cam car can't go "straight" through the roundabout in the left hand lane? (What he was trying to do.)

[aussiblue]

So cam car can't go "straight" through the roundabout in the left hand lane? (What he was trying to do.)

Yes; as it the first left and look at the arrows on the road when the enter the roundabout.

[BENT_8]

Red car is clearly at fault as the only lane you can exit the first exit on a roundabout from is the left lane.
If you stop the video back where you can see the green sign you can see that it is not a regular roundabout but the road signage clearly designates what can be performed and from what lane.
Both of these are visible to traffic and must be considered when on approach.

Those that suggest the short solid white line at the exit somehow shifts blame to the cam car are incorrect as it is just a lane divider poorly applied, the signage is what matters.

The bigger issue is that 34% of the votes at the time of posting this are incorrect, you can see how it happens...

[JasonACT]

I agree, he wasn't changing lanes without due care. He was just staying in his lane. Same thing happened to me in QLD (Gold Coast, Robina shopping centre) but I was pretty quick on the wheel and brake to avoid the other car.

Edited: Just to add, the reason there's two lanes on the exit in question is for people entering the roundabout before the entrance Cam & Red entered.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I agree, he wasn't changing lanes without due care. He was just staying in his lane. Same thing happened to me in QLD (Gold Coast, Robina shopping centre) but I was pretty quick on the wheel and brake to avoid the other car.

Not wanting to get into a slinging match, but cam car clearly crosses into the right lane before fully exiting the roundabout and collides with the red car who was in the right lane the whole time. Had cam car followed basic road rules an kept left, he would then have merged right as the left lane ends to form a single lane.

[JasonACT]

I'm not getting into any slinging match, it's just my opinion (and those of who vote).

Everyone should take care on the road.

[Adamz Ghia]

He didn’t give way to those already in the lane before he merged, I can’t see how the cam car isn’t at fault?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

He didn’t give way to those already in the lane before he merged, I can’t see how the cam car isn’t at fault?

lol, WTF, the cam car didn't 'merge' into anything, he remained in the left lane as he is entitled to do.
The red car was approaching from the same entry point as the cam car only in the right hand lane and tried to exit at the first exit, this is illegal and is sign posted as such.
Honestly, think of a time when you've approached a dual lane roundabout with the intention of exiting at the first exit and thought to yourself, ill do it from the right hand lane.
You wouldn't because you shouldn't.

Actually, I know of only 1 dual lane roundabout where you can in fact exit it at the first exit from the right hand lane without risk and they had to install a concrete divider as people were doing it so often resulting in accidents that it was the only option to prevent further accidents.
This roundabout is next to the old Holdens plant at Elizabeth at the intersection of Phillip highway and John Rice Avenue.
Back in the day when the Holdens carpark would empty onto John Rice avenue after day shift finished you'd get impatient flogs flying up the right hand lane to avoid the congestion and then want to make a left turn on to Philip Highway towards Elizabeth causing the type of accident in the OP's video, so the RTA installed a concrete divider between the two lanes so the left lane can only turn left at the roundabout whilst the right hand lane can go straight ahead, or as some still do, bail left after entering the roundabout.
Im sure PB can attest to this.

[JasonACT]

I guess it's best to ask yourself, which turn-off takes me to a new street, and which keeps me on the same street. In this case, turning on that 1st exit changes streets.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by marty351

Not wanting to get into a slinging match, but cam car clearly crosses into the right lane before fully exiting the roundabout and collides with the red car who was in the right lane the whole time. Had cam car followed basic road rules an kept left, he would then have merged right as the left lane ends to form a single lane.

Not wanting to get into a slinging match either, but I thought the cam car was not crossing into the other lane but trying to go further around the roundabout.

The only reason he went left was to stop and exchange details with the red car.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by marty351

Cam car clearly at fault. Regardless of road markings or signage, cam car changes lanes without due care.

No, no he doesn't.
It's a roundabout, the lanes curve.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by PG2

Not wanting to get into a slinging match either, but I thought the cam car was not crossing into the other lane but trying to go further around the roundabout.

The only reason he went left was to stop and exchange details with the red car.

Both cars a travelling straight through as they are entitled to do, cam car drifted into the right lane before fully exiting the intersection (you're not allowed to change lanes in an intersection) and cut the red car off making contact. A simple head check and he would have seen red car next to him avoiding an accident. Simple careless driving.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

No, no he doesn't.
It's a roundabout, the lanes curve.

You are correct. Two lanes curve simultaneously before, during and after the roundabout, and clear as day, cam car crosses into the right lane.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by marty351

Not wanting to get into a slinging match,

You say that, but then just keep repeating nonsense to avoid admitting you made a mistake.

Originally Posted by marty351

cam car clearly crosses into the right lane.

And again, no, he just doesn't.
It's a ROUNDABOUT, the lanes go AROUND the roundabout.

Have a look at the moment of impact, around the 20~31 second mark.
You can clearly see the dividing line, to the Cam car's RIGHT, and the red car has hit him by failing to stay in the right lane.

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by cs123

The left lane has arrows for turning left and straight ahead.
The right lane has arrows for straight ahead turning right

However, the first left turn is pretty straight and that is confusing.

image

The exit has 2 lanes and also seems to be marked for 2 lanes to exit

image

So all up I think the roundabout is marked incorrectly..... The arrows are misleading as the arrow implies you can go straight from either lane and the road looks straight, it has 2 lanes to exit (and in that case the red car has right of way) but the left lane is the only one allowed that exit according to the arrows.

So the red car is at fault....but the roundabout is a mess....

In my mind, there are two straight roads intersecting here, and roundabouts generally don't require you to be in any particular lane to stay on the same street.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

lol, WTF, the cam car didn't 'merge' into anything, he remained in the left lane as he is entitled to do.
The red car was approaching from the same entry point as the cam car only in the right hand lane and tried to exit at the first exit, this is illegal and is sign posted as such.
Honestly, think of a time when you've approached a dual lane roundabout with the intention of exiting at the first exit and thought to yourself, ill do it from the right hand lane.
You wouldn't because you shouldn't.

Actually, I know of only 1 dual lane roundabout where you can in fact exit it at the first exit from the right hand lane without risk and they had to install a concrete divider as people were doing it so often resulting in accidents that it was the only option to prevent further accidents.
This roundabout is next to the old Holdens plant at Elizabeth at the intersection of Phillip highway and John Rice Avenue.
Back in the day when the Holdens carpark would empty onto John Rice avenue after day shift finished you'd get impatient flogs flying up the right hand lane to avoid the congestion and then want to make a left turn on to Philip Highway towards Elizabeth causing the type of accident in the OP's video, so the RTA installed a concrete divider between the two lanes so the left lane can only turn left at the roundabout whilst the right hand lane can go straight ahead, or as some still do, bail left after entering the roundabout.
Im sure PB can attest to this.

I’m nit sure what you were watching, but as he’s exiting the round about clearly he has started crossing into the right hand lane.

Poor intersection though.