Changes you want to see in the automotive industry

[Franco Cozzo]

This thread is about what changes you would like to see in the automotive industry, there are no 'right' or 'wrong' answers, an opportunity to get on the blower about what currently grinds your gears with anything to do with 2 or 4 wheels (or 700 wheels - rokwiz) and your proposal to fix these perceived problems.

The only rules are:

No AU Falcons
You offer up a problem you need to provide a suggestion on how you want this to change.

What grinds Franco's gears:

Australian Design Regulations - post loss of Australian manufacturing industry:

This one really gives me the ****s, why do we still have specific design regulations for our market when we have no industry to protect?

I think that we should 'deregulate' our automotive industry to a limited degree - Australia drops the requirements for cars/trucks to meet the current ADRs, any car/truck that meets US, Japanese, South Korean and European design and emissions regulations is now able to be registered and driven on our roads.

This will allow better choice for consumers in Australia because auto manufacturers don't have to modify their platforms to meet specific regulations for our tiny market.

Remove the requirements for cars to be RHD:

The fact you can drive a 30 year old LHD car but not a new one is ridiculous, yes there are compromises with operating a car on the opposite side of the road it was designed for but the onus of this should be on the owner of the vehicle, one of my colleagues daily drives a LHD BMW M3 without too many issues.

Being able to buy a car completely online:

This one has always given me the ****s, even back when I bought my first new car over a decade ago, why can't I go to Ford's website, build and price my car, pay for it and my local Ford dealership drops it off in my driveway within a couple of hours or next business day (assuming it's in stock) - given electronic payments can clear within minutes now.

From a customer experience perspective, buying a car sucks. At minimum I'm up for a 30km drive to my closest car dealership, I have to wonder around a car yard waiting for some smarmy ******* to acknowledge me, then deal with someone who is trying to wheel out all the sales tactics in the book on a product I know more about than they do.

The last time I bought a car on behalf of my employer I had to wonder around the dealership, then deal with some moron in office attire with his shirt half untucked, while he spent 15 minutes looking through his messy desk for paperwork for the car I wanted, then walking around confused asking others for the paperwork who had no idea on what he was on about.

Then backwards and forwards with phone calls because he wouldn't email me, tying up my phone line with frivolous bull****.

It took 4 visits to the dealership and a couple weeks to finally get our new ute, that again I had to go pick up because they wouldn't drive it 15km down the freeway.

Add in the lady in the low cut top trying to sucker you into overpriced bull**** you can organise yourself at a much cheaper price while supporting independent business.

Preferably I'd like to avoid all the nonsense of attending a car dealership in person, I'm not proposing that it goes entirely online but that there's the option for customers like me to be able to option up and pay for their new car and then have it delivered to your door, this would be a productivity gain for a dealership without having people wondering around their dealership and offer the ability for a cost saving as you can get away with less sales staff and fancy bull****.

[T3rminator]

Hypothetically speaking? Remove the LCT

Wishing I brought back my Z4 when I had the chance.

[Citroënbender]

I’d like to see a release of ADR constraints for faithful reissues of Australian made cars whose production ended 30+ years ago. They might have to publish full crash test results but not bound to comply with contemporary standards. A further caveat being also that the car could not be made any more overseas than it was originally - starting at foundry level.

[hayseed]

Make it easier to privately import current (or late) model Vehicles..
My Grandfather talks about some of His Mates going overseas buying a new Car driving it around for a few months, then shipping it back here.
But the Car dealer mafia Won't let that Happen..

[PhilT2]

Aren't our ADR's just copied from world standards?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Design_Rules

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Make it easier to privately import current (or late) model Vehicles..
My Grandfather talks about some of His Mates going overseas buying a new Car driving it around for a few months, then shipping it back here.
But the Car dealer mafia Won't let that Happen..

Legislation is about to change - its just undergone huge changes for the first time in about 30 years

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/rvs/

[Sprintey]

NZ levels of distillation laws, much more open than our restrictive conditions.
So the moonshinin' drivers can tootle around on liquid sunlight

E85 not a bad substitute though, smells like vodka pouring it in

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Legislation is about to change - its just undergone huge changes for the first time in about 30 years

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/rvs/

Perfect reading for my 4AM insomnia; better than trawling for a TikTok video of someone putting down a cucumber behind Dan Andrews while he’s eating.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Make it easier to privately import current (or late) model Vehicles..
My Grandfather talks about some of His Mates going overseas buying a new Car driving it around for a few months, then shipping it back here.
But the Car dealer mafia Won't let that Happen..

Geeze, was it that long ago. Remember my uncle buying a Lotus Elite in Pommyland driving it all over Europe for the required 6 months before bringing back in his large suitcase.

edit, Franco, punters can't even drive the RHD vehicles we have now lets not introduce LHD voodoo into the equation.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Geeze, was it that long ago. Remember my uncle buying a Lotus Elite in Pommyland driving it all over Europe for the required 6 months before bringing back in his large suitcase.

edit, Franco, punters can't even drive the RHD vehicles we have now lets not introduce LHD voodoo into the equation.

It'll make the dash cam Australia monthly compilation a little more exciting, maybe we can stick it to the Russian ones.

[Dr Smith]

Further to your ADR frustration Franco, one real "p15s me off" for me is the local importer refuses to offer or allow a factory order of a particular spec even though those individual specs are available in various other models they do import here. The blame is put on ADR compliance costs by the importer.

For example, VW brings in a Crewvan with only the 340tdi engine however in the UK it offers the same van with a choice of engines upto tdi450 (149kW) and 4motion. In the other models they do import the tdi450 and 4motion (AWD) are available so parts and servicing is already covered. So in summary, my new rule is "if that combo is available in a RHD market, and is offered in models that are imported then remove ADR requirements".

[chevypower]

Consolidate design requirements globally as much as possible. Agree on an international standard for traffic direction to get rid of the LHD/RHD issue, though autonomous driving and drive by wire might make that a non issue anyway. Look to see if there are unnectregulations driving up the costs of manufacturing. Thanks Look at future airspace requirements for flying cars to coexist with General and Civil Aviation. Should they have their own airways or should they be able to fly off route?

[b0son]

Get rid of dealerships as we know them, and move to online sales. The worst part of buying a car is having to deal with a sales guy, and the amount of your time they're willing to waste to 'do a deal'. Why do a deal at all? Just offer a good price from the get go, have sales like most stores do. Cars are just big appliances anyway, sell them as such.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

Get rid of dealerships as we know them, and move to online sales. The worst part of buying a car is having to deal with a sales guy, and the amount of your time they're willing to waste to 'do a deal'. Why do a deal at all? Just offer a good price from the get go, have sales like most stores do. Cars are just big appliances anyway, sell them as such.

Better off having a setup like Bayford in North Melbourne, it's a service centre and that's it, have one bloke who is the "product specialist' who knows everything they have offered on the website like the back of his hand - if someone wants to know detailed information before they purchase then they get this bloke on the blower or email who knows everything inside out.

Online orders come in, the workshop just does their usual pre delivery stuff, car then gets driven to customer or put on a truck if customer wishes direct to their driveway.

Have pricing structure where online price is a few thousand bucks less, then the dealership price for the people who want to buy cars traditionally.

No more flashy building, $7000 coffee machine and flogs in suits.

Maybe less dealerships type locations, more service centres/online locations that are basically flashy concrete boxes with a workshop but a few 'flagship' dealerships where they're really nice standout showroom locations with large workshop on show.

You want the old skool experience then you travel to your closest flagship dealer, if it's online and it turns up in your driveway than your closest concrete box has you covered

Incentive the concrete box employees by no uniform requirements and flexible working hours.

The flagship workshops have the highest performing/dedicated staff in the network.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Add in the lady in the low cut top trying to sucker you into overpriced bull**** you can organise yourself at a much cheaper price while supporting independent business.

Are you referring to the "Ming moll" ?

That's what we used to call them anyway.

Dr Terry

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Are you referring to the "Ming moll" ?

That's what we used to call them anyway.

Dr Terry

I think that's the pre political correctness term for this charlatan

[Craig@AUDI]

You guys crack me up, and yes I used to think the same/say the same things before the shoe was on the other foot...

Until you have to actually do this job for a living, and some of you may or may have, you have no idea what a panful lot of PITA's the retail public can be!

[simon varley]

so Craig, wouldn't that alone make you want to move to on line sales?

[whynot]

Technically, the role of the salesperson is to help you find the right product to suit your needs. In practice, the role of the salesperson (particularly in car yards) is, in order, to A) sell you from their yard B) upsell if at all possible, and C) make you feel like you have done the right thing. A car sales droid practices their art every day. The typical person only walks into a car yard once every ten (?) years. They know there is going to be mind games. Sure, some people enjoy that type of stuff (negotiating with car dealers). But they often have loneliness problems (or haven’t seen a nice set straining against the confines of a Playtex DD in awhile) and enjoy watching someone else being forced to talk with them. The rest of the population is stressed and overwhelmed in a car yard. Doing the entire transaction online has my vote.

Getting rid of ADR? I am not so sure about that. Apparently, car manufacturers are still selling cars without airbags in countries where they are not mandated. At first glance at looking through the list of ADR, one has to question why some are there. Until one realises they are there because car manufacturers play silly buggers with safety. Why is there a specification about reversing lights? It is there because manufacturers were tight with installing a decent set of reversing lights. Ditto seat belts, airbags, safety glass, safety rims, side door strength, the glare from gas discharge headlights, and the list goes on.

[Sprintey]

There's probably a small % who are just autists who like cars, too

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Craig@AUDI

You guys crack me up, and yes I used to think the same/say the same things before the shoe was on the other foot...

Until you have to actually do this job for a living, and some of you may or may have, you have no idea what a panful lot of PITA's the retail public can be!

Ha ha, yes I can relate.

A great customer can make your day. A bad customer can break your day.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by b0son

Get rid of dealerships as we know them, and move to online sales. The worst part of buying a car is having to deal with a sales guy, and the amount of your time they're willing to waste to 'do a deal'. Why do a deal at all? Just offer a good price from the get go, have sales like most stores do. Cars are just big appliances anyway, sell them as such.

Looks like both Honda & Mercedes Benz have been listening to you..


https://www.drive.com.au/news/canber...tm_medium=link

[JasonACT]

I think it's a great idea. Having bought 4 (brand) new cars, I can say 3 of them had issues. Only 1 was a manufacture defect. My conclusion is, you haggle, you get someone else's reject a bit cheaper. The one that I didn't have any issue with (for 11 years) was a plain white model, picked at random, out of a whole bunch of identical ones by me, with no haggling.

So with on-line ordering, I test drive one, accept it's a good car and get delivered one that no-one else had messed with. Bliss.

My "brand new" FG2 XR6T that I haggled $1000 off had a cut/slice into the driver's seat side wall that I wasn't told about (and I didn't notice for 2 months). So I really only saved $500 when I personally fixed it 7 years later when it became really bad. I think I made a thread about it here.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Looks like both Honda & Mercedes Benz have been listening to you..


https://www.drive.com.au/news/canber...tm_medium=link

Genesis started out doing this.

The price is the price, no haggling, no discounts unless it's a factory backed promotion.

You can also buy and pay online and from what I understand the vehicle is delivered to you.

[Yellow_Festiva]

1) More realistic consumption figures - we don't drive cars under lab conditions,
2) More accountability on dealerships to honour warranty claims - introduce proper 'lemon' laws,
3) MUCH MORE 'sting' operations where under cover agents test dealership honesty when it comes to servicing and repairs. Any flouting is punished HARD,
4) Standardise E10,
5) Have better protections for private importing companies that receive funds in full before any service is rendered. They must not be able to hide behind offshore companies,
6) More freedom for what is allowed on the roads. Look at what Europe and America are able to drive on the roads - we should have the same here if the vehicle is roadworthy,
7) Have a fairer system for owners of multiple cars - discounts with CTP / Rego / insurance especially when only the one owner is driving the one car at a given time,
8) Australia wide road rules and vehicle regulations,
9) Introduction of a specific warning system for minor offences that is kept on record,
10) Teach driving as a proper after school year 12 program. Those who participate get a discount on their licence and an extra point or 2 on their licence as an incentive,
11) ALL international drivers from non English speaking countries MUST pass a theory and practical test before getting their overseas licence transferred to an Aussie one.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

1) More realistic consumption figures - we don't drive cars under lab conditions,
2) More accountability on dealerships to honour warranty claims - introduce proper 'lemon' laws,
3) MUCH MORE 'sting' operations where under cover agents test dealership honesty when it comes to servicing and repairs. Any flouting is punished HARD,
4) Standardise E10,
5) Have better protections for private importing companies that receive funds in full before any service is rendered. They must not be able to hide behind offshore companies,
6) More freedom for what is allowed on the roads. Look at what Europe and America are able to drive on the roads - we should have the same here if the vehicle is roadworthy,
7) Have a fairer system for owners of multiple cars - discounts with CTP / Rego / insurance especially when only the one owner is driving the one car at a given time,
8) Australia wide road rules and vehicle regulations,
9) Introduction of a specific warning system for minor offences that is kept on record,
10) Teach driving as a proper after school year 12 program. Those who participate get a discount on their licence and an extra point or 2 on their licence as an incentive,
11) ALL international drivers from non English speaking countries MUST pass a theory and practical test before getting their overseas licence transferred to an Aussie one.

In our new PC world, add to that, taught only by recgonised driving schools and not by Ma or Pa teaching them their bad habits.

[Craig@AUDI]

Originally Posted by simon varley

so Craig, wouldn't that alone make you want to move to on line sales?

I had an opportunity to work at a fleet company mon-fri and purely over the phone, (read spear out emails to dealers than add a few grand on top of their price) but I've always been customer facing and do love a chat, so no face to face is more fun but depends on what customer you get basically.

[Craig@AUDI]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

A great customer can make your day. A bad customer can break your day.

True that!

[Bossxr8]

We still need to keep some adr's which are specific to our needs. Probably not many of them though.

We should make cleaner 95 fuels the standard fuel. No high sulfur 91 dirty fuel, that means we miss out on some models from OS because the high sulfur content wrecks the cats etc.

It only costs an extra 2-3 cents per litre to make, not the ridiculous 15c extra or whatever the fuel companies throw on top as profit to rip off the motorists. I doubt too many people would complain about an extra 2-3 cents per litre extra for cleaner, more environmentally friendly fuel. 98 can become premium, and then add 100 octane to replace 98 so we can make a bit more power.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

We still need to keep some adr's which are specific to our needs. Probably not many of them though.

We should make cleaner 95 fuels the standard fuel. No high sulfur 91 dirty fuel, that means we miss out on some models from OS because the high sulfur content wrecks the cats etc.

It only costs an extra 2-3 cents per litre to make, not the ridiculous 15c extra or whatever the fuel companies throw on top as profit to rip off the motorists. I doubt too many people would complain about an extra 2-3 cents per litre extra for cleaner, more environmentally friendly fuel. 98 can become premium, and then add 100 octane to replace 98 so we can make a bit more power.

I agree with ****ing off 91 and then looking at ultra low sulfur fuels in 95/98.

Further we should increase availability of E85 and flexfuel capable vehicles and look at a retrofit program for existing vehicles.

It supports local farmers, reduces some of our reliance on foreign oil and it's a low hanging fruit goal towards reducing C02 emissions.

Removal of 91, ultra low sulfur 95/98 can be done with a change of Australian standards.

As far as ADRs go, what do we need that European, Japanese, South Korean and American design regulations don't have?

Gone with the ADRs, if car manufacturers want to offer cars in our market without various safety features then let the market decide.

I don't want **** like AEB and lane guidance crap, I'll use my own brakes and keep my car in its lane by itself thanks.