Push back against G7 zero-emissions target

[Vesper Martini]

Saw this the other day, will it start a landslide of other countries pushing back?
https://www.drive.com.au/news/japane...ssions-target/

[Vesper Martini]

link from that article where they want the ban date on Petrol and diesel cars pushed back
anybody would have seen this coming.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/govern...35-ban-report/

[Bossxr8]

The people have to want to buy EV's first. The demand has to be high enough for the switch over to be made. If people just decide stuff it, I don't want one or it's just not suitable for what I do, and would rather buy a second hand ICE, then it's going to be a massive problem for the manufacturers. Would send a few to the wall.

[T3rminator]

Banning stuff is not the way to go...

Five countries seek to delay EU fossil fuel car phase-out
https://www.reuters.com/markets/euro...nt-2022-06-24/


Germany backs EU fossil fuel car phaseout, with slight change
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...35-2022-06-21/

[Franco Cozzo]

Stevie Wonder even saw this one coming

Notice how Germany fired up it's coal power plants? They love a bit of virtue signalling, funny it's not all Sunshine, Kittens and Rainbows when Europe decides it's got the ****s up with itself again and they had to turn off the taps on Russian gas they snookered themselves into relying on.

[Sprintey]

The thing that gets me is that there are so many coal fired power stations under construction in, er, certain areas, that the sheer amount of CO2 is set to increase well beyond any date that is modelled to stop climate destruction. No matter what Europe, US, Australia etc do.

[Sprintey]

"What Mr Toyoda is trying to say is that hybrids running with synthetic fuels are good for the environment because they are extremely fuel efficient,” Amari said.

from first article,

he's right too. This heads in the direction of the biofuels/alternate fuels being talked about here.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Stevie Wonder even saw this one coming

Notice how Germany fired up it's coal power plants? They love a bit of virtue signalling, funny it's not all Sunshine, Kittens and Rainbows when Europe decides it's got the ****s up with itself again and they had to turn off the taps on Russian gas they snookered themselves into relying on.

Germany's reliance on Russian energy, so they can virtue signal about all the coal burning CO2 they have stopped, has massively blown up in their faces now.

Watching them tiptoe around the Ukraine invasion, and deliberately trying to not offend the russians in case they cut off their gas is pure comedy. Clown show stuff.

I love how they crow about how much CO2 they have stopped burning, but sourcing it from another country that most likely has next to no environmental standards, and more than likely burns more CO2 making electricity is a good thing for the planet. It's nothing but shuffling numbers around and making out like you have done something, when in reality you've probably gone backwards. It's just a massive con.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The thing that gets me is that there are so many coal fired power stations under construction in, er, certain areas, that the sheer amount of CO2 is set to increase well beyond any date that is modelled to stop climate destruction. No matter what Europe, US, Australia etc do.

China is building 30 new ones as we speak. It will wipe out all the reductions we make over the next decade many times over.

No one wants to say anything though, cause you can't offend the chinese

[b0son]

Germany's decision to shut down nuclear is looking like an inspired one.. not.

Meanwhile, China is hoovering up cheap coal from Russia, while helping the Africans build coal-fired power. Anyone can see their long game. Clean their own back yard up, while exporting their CO2 to Africa.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

"What Mr Toyoda is trying to say is that hybrids running with synthetic fuels are good for the environment because they are extremely fuel efficient,” Amari said.

from first article,

he's right too. This heads in the direction of the biofuels/alternate fuels being talked about here.

Toyoda is not surprisingly a very cleaver man.
but even a nobody like me can see Hybrid with a synthetic would be more than enough.
I see Porsche is investing around $100 million US dollars to develop eFuel facilities in Australia, Chile and the United States.
https://www.exhaustnotes.com.au/pors...-in-australia/
I dont profess to know much about Efuels but if Porsche is doing this surely the must be a business case

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Toyoda is not surprisingly a very cleaver man.
but even a nobody like me can see Hybrid with a synthetic would be more than enough.
I see Porsche is investing around $100 million US dollars to develop eFuel facilities in Australia, Chile and the United States.
https://www.exhaustnotes.com.au/pors...-in-australia/
I dont profess to know much about Efuels but if Porsche is doing this surely the must be a business case

One would have to wonder about why they're developing it in those three countries yet not in their own country, or for that matter, anywhere in Europe?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

One would have to wonder about why they're developing it in those three countries yet not in their own country, or for that matter, anywhere in Europe?

Probably because the EU rules/regulators are too busy smoking unicorns in their glass BBQs so it's probably not a favourable environment nor have any support within Europe to do this sort of development/research.

Surely synthetic fuels would be like synthetic oils - way better product than mineral based oils.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The thing that gets me is that there are so many coal fired power stations under construction in, er, certain areas, that the sheer amount of CO2 is set to increase well beyond any date that is modelled to stop climate destruction. No matter what Europe, US, Australia etc do.

Surely in this day and age a coal fired power plant would be a hell of a lot cleaner than the dinosaurs we have, even if you look at how far cars have come with what comes out the exhaust in the past 40 years.

Sure its not ideal but when you're a ****pot third world continent like Africa the best way to stop their shennanigans is lots of cheap energy/resources/infrastructure and education to build a nicer society, then they'll stop having 70 kids and fighting wars amongst themselves.

Someone like China which isn't a poor/developing nation which it always exploits this status its been designated to avoid climate policy, has the ways and means to clean up their act, they just don't care.

Funnily enough I did an essay in environmental science class in year 11 about 15 years ago on how we'll never make progress here because countries like China will never change their ways and it requires global cooperation from many governments which won't ever happen - got a B+ for it and it looks like I was on the money

[GASWAGON]

Yes Franco China is still a developing country that is in someways way behind the west.

I don't understand why we cant have 'clean coal' and 'clean gas' that as you mentioned like cars etc are much more efficient now than 40 years ago???

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

One would have to wonder about why they're developing it in those three countries yet not in their own country, or for that matter, anywhere in Europe?

Curious isn't it, from what I understand you can make Synthetic fuel from Methanol. and Methanol can be produced from Natural gas.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by GASWAGON

Yes Franco China is still a developing country that is in someways way behind the west.

I don't understand why we cant have 'clean coal' and 'clean gas' that as you mentioned like cars etc are much more efficient now than 40 years ago???

There is something like 110 Million Motorbikes in China - the main choice of transportation to the developing countries

[T3rminator]

Its sure going to be interesting to see how the 10% can convince the other 90% that they need to make short - medium term sacrifices to their growth and economy, to achieve a target, that may or may not have an impact to climate change.

I recall watching an interview with an Indian minister a while ago on ABC, he said "you ("the west") are holding us back when you reaped all the benefits of fossil fuel in the past". How do you respond to that?

China is interesting. Largest emitter but also one of the leaders in the renewable technology game.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

There is something like 110 Million Motorbikes in China - the main choice of transportation to the developing countries
image

And that’s why electric bikes with Swap n go batteries are becoming the next big thing in Asia,
it’s possible that all of those petrol bikes will be outlawed and replaced by BEVs in the next few years.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Its sure going to be interesting to see how the 10% can convince the other 90% that they need to make short - medium term sacrifices to their growth and economy, to achieve a target, that may or may not have an impact to climate change.

I recall watching an interview with an Indian minister a while ago on ABC, he said "you ("the west") are holding us back when you reaped all the benefits of fossil fuel in the past". How do you respond to that?

China is interesting. Largest emitter but also one of the leaders in the renewable technology game.

Such a paradox, all the growth in electric vehicles adding load to the grid and yet
more renewable energy is closing that gap. Somewhere in there, a lot of BEVs are
being run and charged on renewable energy in spite of all the dirty power produced.

Somewhere in the future, I see China replacing its base load coal fired power stations
with a standardised nuclear power station design and like the French, declaring itself
clean and green.

[bungarra]

This TEDx presentation on E-Vehicles, Hybrids and ICE Vehicles by environmentalist activist Graham Conway is a good review of the reality versus propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Such a paradox, all the growth in electric vehicles adding load to the grid and yet
more renewable energy is closing that gap. Somewhere in there, a lot of BEVs are
being run and charged on renewable energy in spite of all the dirty power produced.

Somewhere in the future, I see China replacing its base load coal fired power stations
with a standardised nuclear power station design and like the French, declaring itself
clean and green.

China just doesn't care though. They have nuclear power, and could build a lot more if they wanted to. But they chose coal.

Seems like a very odd choice to be making in these modern times.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And that’s why electric bikes with Swap n go batteries are becoming the next big thing in Asia,
it’s possible that all of those petrol bikes will be outlawed and replaced by BEVs in the next few years.

I find that hard to believe, somebody has to pay for that to happen.

[T3rminator]

Just heard that we have a free trade agreement with the EU in negotiation, and we might get "sanctioned" for not achieving carbon emission targets wtf?

A FTA that includes sanctions before its even started.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Just heard that we have a free trade agreement with the EU in negotiation, and we might get "sanctioned" for not achieving carbon emission targets wtf?

A FTA that includes sanctions before its even started.

There would be reasons Scomo never signed this agreement, looks like we just found out the first one..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GASWAGON

Yes Franco China is still a developing country that is in someways way behind the west.

I don't understand why we cant have 'clean coal' and 'clean gas' that as you mentioned like cars etc are much more efficient now than 40 years ago???

I wouldn't call it a 'developing country' - its a rich nation that is the world's manufacturing hub, they just take the **** on the rest of us claiming developing nation status to avoid having to clean up their act.

If China wanted to tomorrow they could basically switch to nuclear and renewable energy and fund it all no problems. They have nuclear weapons in short, medium, long range as well as nuclear submarines (also armed with nuclear weapons) so its not like they don't have the capability to use it for a good purpose.

They could even improve the standard of living of its own citizens too but they don't care - while other countries with high labour costs look towards automation, China has huge amounts of cheap human capital + slaves, they don't need to bother with stuff like automation.

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Just heard that we have a free trade agreement with the EU in negotiation, and we might get "sanctioned" for not achieving carbon emission targets wtf?

A FTA that includes sanctions before its even started.

Every FTA we've ever signed has been at the cost of our own industries, so why even bother, with 'friends' like the virtue signalling EU (who had no qualms relying on Russian oil and gas), who needs enemies?

They want to lecture Australia on cleaning it its act when they're all funding an invasion on another democratic European country through Russian oil and gas? Germany which is only 1500km away from Ukraine has been mighty slow on getting weapons to Ukraine when we're on the other side of the planet and already delivered many armoured vehicles to them.

The latest one with India is hilarious, it makes it easier for Indians to get perminent residency and citizenship, so we can have more mechanical engineers for the manufacturing industry we haven't had for nearly a decade now, guess we could use more cleaners, uber and truck drivers with masters in a mechanical engineering field.

Its just a thinly veiled hit to keep local wages low and unemployment up to a point where there's enough hungry people to keep them competing for bottom dollar while India gets to export its overpopulation problem to other countries where they benefit at Australia's expense.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

China just doesn't care though. They have nuclear power, and could build a lot more if they wanted to. But they chose coal.

Seems like a very odd choice to be making in these modern times.

That’s because of the fall out with Australia, easiest option was to go back to mining coal themselves.
Funny though, a lot of our coal seems to be going to China via India…….

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s because of the fall out with Australia, easiest option was to go back to mining coal themselves.

North Korea also has huge nice black coal reserves, and Russia has a lot of it too, three peas in a pod, they don't need our coal they just use it to buy influence in our democracy by the way of threatening to shut their huge wallet.

Our industry allowed itself to be caught in a monopsony through laziness and now its paying for it. I'm sure there's other countries (hello EU) who want our minerals, LNG, wine, fruit and vegetables that aren't China.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

North Korea also has huge nice black coal reserves, and Russia has a lot of it too, three peas in a pod, they don't need our coal they just use it to buy influence in our democracy by the way of threatening to shut their huge wallet.

Our industry allowed itself to be caught in a monopsony through laziness and now its paying for it.

No one was talking about North Korea or Russia they will just do their own thing,
Ukraine was responsible for a largish wheat crop, I guess that’s toast this year and the next…

I like Ronald Reagan’s quote about Russia, it’s a gas station masquerading as a country…

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No one was talking about North Korea or Russia they will just do their own thing,
Ukraine was responsible for a largish wheat crop, I guess that’s toast this year and the next…

I like Ronald Reagan’s quote about Russia, it’s a gas station masquerading as a country…

Where do you think China is getting its coal from if they don't from Australia anymore? Comes from the sky fairies?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Where do you think China is getting its coal from if they don't from Australia anymore? Comes from the sky fairies?

No they buying off India which buys it off Australia…..
And as I said in an earlier post, China is also increasing domestic coal mining, up by 4 Million tons last year