Today is 10 years since the announcement that shook Australia & destroyed an industry. And killed Holden.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We had an attempt here from Vietnamese car manufacturer Vinfast, then they randomly pulled out of the country completely.

We've got defence manufacturing, I reckon Thales should do a civilian version of the Ute variant of the Hawkei.

Vinfast just wanted a complete proving ground to test at, it was never going to manufacture here. Vietnam is cheap AF to manufacture in, and many companies are moving there from China. Doesn't matter anyway, Vinfast looks like a shambles.

https://jalopnik.com/vinfast-vf8-ele...u-s-1849892217

If my initial drive of a pre-production VinFast VF8 the next day is anything to go by, the answer is: No, the cars are not very good at all.


Our press drive took place on yet another private island owned by Vingroup: VinPearl Nha Trang. It’s Vingroup’s flagship property, home to the company’s Disney-like VinWonder amusement park. VinFast closed off a small section of the island for a controlled test drive route that I measured at about 2 kilometers — or less than 1.3 miles.

In front of VinPearl’s ornate convention center sat eight VinFast VF8s in two trim levels, Eco and Plus. Despite all the uncanny-valley showmanship, here we were, about to drive cars that were, in theory, nearly production ready. The brand ambassadors once again reiterated the company’s plans to ship vehicles to the US within a few weeks. Although the cars we were driving were Vietnamese spec, we were told “only a few software tweaks” would be required to make them ready for the US market.

I hope they do more than software tweaks. In its current state, the VF8 isn’t ready.


The VinFast VF8 is a compact-ish midsize EV crossover, with 350 horsepower in Eco trim and 402 HP in the Plus trim. Even with the generally higher curb weight inherent to an electric vehicle, 350 horsepower should be enough to scoot the VF8 around with authority. Yet throughout my time behind the wheel, the VF8 felt like it had barely half that output. I drove every pre-production vehicle VinFast brought to the event; all of them felt slow, and their performance was inconsistent.


The ride and handling were even worse. As VinFast bussed us from place to place, I noticed that company reps would always follow us in a few VF8s. Much of Vietnam’s highway system is brand-new and very smooth, but the VF8s were constantly bounding up and down, with poor suspension control that was visible from the bus. I shooed it away, figuring that the VinFast team was driving development mules that didn’t represent the near-final cars I was under the impression we would be driving.

Nope. Driving one VF8 after another around VinFast’s private island test course, my experience was exactly what I had seen as the VinFast folks tailed us around north Vietnam. Even on the island resort’s glass-smooth roads, the VF8 bucked and bounced as if the car was on cut springs. The steering was dead and nonlinear, paired with tires that gave up grip at the slightest bit of cornering verve, though I’m not sure how much of a dynamic impression one can get on a closed course on a private resort island.


Annoyed, but still striving to be open-minded, I approached a VinFast engineering representative. Company spokespeople had claimed the VF8s we drove were Vietnamese production spec; I wanted to know what changes were in store for the US market. Yet again, the spokesperson reiterated that the VF8 was just a few software tweaks away from a US-market debut — implying that the chassis calibration was finalized.


To say I was frustrated would have been the biggest understatement east of the prime meridian. The brand had made such a big damn show — chartering a 20-hour flight, flexing on us with an almost haughty display of this automotive startup and its parent company’s reach into nearly every aspect of Vietnamese life. VinFast reps had bragged about beating their own internal timelines in getting these cars ready for mass production, and judging by the smiles on their faces, it seems like they were all genuinely psyched to show off a product they believed was ready to go toe-to-toe with established automakers. Instead, I’d been flown 8,000 miles to tootle around in a car that clearly wasn’t anywhere near done. I was ****ed that the company had wasted my time.


I decided to drive the other VF8 variant, the Plus model, said to have 402 horsepower. It, too, was dog-slow with crap ride quality. Not satisfied with my initial answers, I marched over to the gaggle of VinFast employees, trying to get to the bottom of the car’s poor performance. Eventually, I was led to a main engineer, someone who could answer substantial technical questions about the vehicle.

“So, this car has anywhere from 350 to 402 horsepower, right?” I asked the VinFast engineer. “Why is it so slow?”

“You mean peak horsepower,” he corrected me.


“What?”

“Peak horsepower. The VF8 only has 350 to 402 horsepower when the battery is above 80 percent charge,” the engineer said.

“You do realize that you’ll be the only manufacturer that limits power this severely, right?” I shot back. None of our test cars were fully charged, some of them hovering at 50 percent battery. Even then, that’s not an excuse. I have never driven an EV that reduced power output this dramatically at a routine state of charge. It didn’t seem right.

The VinFast engineers insisted I drive one specific prototype unit they claimed had the “latest and greatest” suspension and software updates. It, too, was pretty ****. The same bouncy, unfinished ride, the same dead steering, and it was only marginally quicker than the others. There were serious power delivery problems, too.



I had gotten tired of the dog and pony show, the over-the-top opulence, and the company’s inability to answer a question. Still, I tried to be diplomatic. I pulled aside VinFast’s U.S. public relations representative. “Baby, you gotta tell ‘em,” I said. “This car ain’t ready.” He reiterated the line I had heard so many times before: That the VF8s we were driving were pre-production models, and I should keep that in mind as I scrutinized their performance.

I’m not naive. I understand a PR rep’s job is to tell journalists what the company wants them to hear. But that’s not enough. In its current state, at the price VinFast wants to charge, the VF8 is a terrible deal. It feels like an underdeveloped, unfinished product that, quite frankly, would be an embarrassment in any market.


Throughout the entire trip, the VinFast representatives were super excited, certain that the company would meet its goal of beginning US deliveries in the fall. Outside the factory, completed VF8s and VF9s sat in parking lots, seemingly ready to be exported and delivered to customers. The brand wanted to ship ready-to-go cars to the US mere weeks, if not days, after our trip. If the pre-production units I drove were so far removed from what we’d be getting in the US, why bring me here? Why have journalists drive them at all?

Originally Posted by Ford Falcon XR6

Simple solution would have been to heavily tax all overseas made cars. And redirect that tax money to locally build the cars people wanted at affordable prices. The import taxes on foreign made car could have been used to sustainably subsidise our higher manufacturing costs.
But that would affect the mega profits of the big manufacturers and our government would never step on the toes of big corporations. We live in a world ruled by the super wealthy and their corporations governments are puppet who push their agendas. Manufacturing well made products in Australia reduces profits so we don’t do it plain and simple. Not just us who miss out the countries who do manufacture pay their workers stuff all for long hours in poor conditions. We are still more fortunate then them…

That's pretty much what tariffs were for. But in all their wisdom, taking them away and letting the locals die was somehow a better idea.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We do, every time you buy something from a Chinese supplier, you need to pay for it in USD



I don't think it did, because nothing has been done to shore up our supply chain, the wiper blades, arms and electronic control system controlling that wiper system on that Thales Hawkei come from China.

All that happened was everyone jumped up and down, sent angry emails then went back to normal when supply from overseas increased again and back to offshoring everything to save a couple dollars here and there.

But Covid still opened our eyes to it.
Before we all got a little complacent about everything being readily available.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We had an attempt here from Vietnamese car manufacturer Vinfast, then they randomly pulled out of the country completely.

We've got defence manufacturing, I reckon Thales should do a civilian version of the Ute variant of the Hawkei.

A number of engineers who took redundancy from Holden ended up at Vinfast for a period of time. From what I was told by one of them, the project was a basket case with extremely poor safety engineering.

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I don't think they deliver your Woolworth's order to your door by train.

Everything you own came in a truck.

More freight on Rail could be efficient, but why bother? Follow the money.

Socialise the costs (of roads) and privatise the profits (cough-Linfox-cough).

When regional rail lines close, truck usage and increased road maintenance costs largely become a local council problem. Plus, the former rail operators no longer have below rail costs.

Look at the closure of tier three grain lines in wa, or the Eyre peninsula freight lines in sa, for more examples. When privatised, the rail infrastructure was starved of basic maintenance (to maximise profits) until the lines became practically useless and no longer fit for purpose.

[Franco Cozzo]

Rail infrastructure is a bit of a joke in VIC - went Melbourne CBD to Wodonga, then hopped on a coach to Canberra, home to hotel it was 12 hours all up, with the rail portion of the trip taking over 4 hours to get from Melbourne CBD to Wodonga because the train drives slow AF rather than the 160km/h its rated to. To the point it delayed us by about 30-45 mins after the coach was supposed to depart Wodonga for Canberra.

It was the same on the way back, from Wodonga to Melbourne, took even longer because it got delayed at Broadmeadows for ages (where I jumped off).

It sucks for passenger transport because its so slow, it would have been quicker to drive.

Do we have separate rail lines for freight or do passenger trains share part of the track with the freight trains?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I don't think they deliver your Woolworth's order to your door by train.

Good point. But christ it took a long time for the driver to find my order as he had to go through nearly the entire length of the B-triple. But watching him trying to get back out my street was comedy gold.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Self sufficient? Lol… Build our own vehicles? Ha Ha!
Can’t even build our own oil filters in Australia anymore!

When the “biggie” begins (and it WILL!)
Watch us fold!..
Our reserves of fuel…
Petrol.. 24 days from 1 July 2023. Increasing to 27 days in 2024.
Diesel fuel.. 20 days from 1 July 2023.
Look at virtually any item on the supermarket shelves!… Made in Australia?? Nope! All now imported!
(Not that we can afford to buy much anyhow, I spose?)

This is why one might be wise in working out alternative fuels or forms of transport, now. And stock up on toilet paper.

If the biggie happens sea lanes to/from Asia/China stop. I see getting most of our diesel refined in Singapore as problematic. Ford might have some trouble getting Ranger shipments down here from Thailand.

But on the flip side, the sea lane from West Coast US to Aus becomes far more important, wouldn't be surprised to see convoys bringing Texas Tea over to us (or their shale/fracked product).

And we have a metric asston of coal in Gippsland that can be Fischer Tropsched into diesel - and so have liquid fuel even if the gas of the NW is in the line of fire. Smart people would build a plant now.

[Sprintey]

& also Charliewool you are quite right about the supermarkets and large amounts of the foodstuffs being imported. Doing shop online it's relatively easy to find which are still made in Australia/Australian ingredients and select these if you wish.

It's insane to think that this has happened, when we have some of the finest foodstuffs in the world. Working in northern Tassie I was blown away at how good the vegetables were, never seen anything like them - all going for export. Or on the West Coast getting those delicious crays right off the boat (or working on the boat!), or down Coffin Bay with the oysters, or Coles Bay. I've even found Australian caught tuna, and there's also a trend of direct farmer to buyer beef, some great nutritious milk businesses, local seafood co-ops and of course the farmers markets but you get the idea.

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Rail infrastructure is a bit of a joke in VIC - went Melbourne CBD to Wodonga, then hopped on a coach to Canberra, home to hotel it was 12 hours all up, with the rail portion of the trip taking over 4 hours to get from Melbourne CBD to Wodonga because the train drives slow AF rather than the 160km/h its rated to. To the point it delayed us by about 30-45 mins after the coach was supposed to depart Wodonga for Canberra.

It was the same on the way back, from Wodonga to Melbourne, took even longer because it got delayed at Broadmeadows for ages (where I jumped off).

It sucks for passenger transport because its so slow, it would have been quicker to drive.

Do we have separate rail lines for freight or do passenger trains share part of the track with the freight trains?

Victorian rail managers have kicked some awesome home goals over the years. Like the non gauge convertible concrete sleepers ordered for rail projects (save 2% - order now for free delivery!). Or the overpass in Melbourne that came in under budget, because the increased curvature increased wheel wear rates to dangerous levels, increasing derailments. Or the north west standardisation resulting in slower trains (and fewer crossing tracks).

But Artc have managed to mismanage $750m on the north eastern line to Albury, where pax and freight mingle not so freely. And the result is what you experienced.

Every effort to modernise seems to make it worse. Go back a few years and saving money on resleepering was in vogue, using what they call a side insertion method. Problem: it creates mud holes, abrupt changes in track geometry that can literally tear a train in half.

Only solved by lifting the track, levelling the foundation and relaying the track.

But hey, someone probably scored bonuses for saving money with that idea.

Sadly, all too typical. Maybe it's where the utopia script writers steal their ideas from.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Ford Falcon XR6

Manufacturing well made products in Australia reduces profits so we don’t do it plain and simple.

No... It's simply because most Aussies are 2 faced. They talk a big game but when push comes to shove they rarely follow through. And nothing shows this best than Australian made products.

Kmart sell a 2 slice toaster for $7.50. Would you pay $20 for it just because it was made in Australia? Most people beat their chest and say "**** yeah, Aussie made... Of course I will and do". But in reality they would without question buy the $7.50 because they'd rather save the cash.

Originally Posted by Ford Falcon XR6

None of these “independent” journalists ever put the question to the manufacturers why don’t we then make the cars people are buying. They just shift the blame onto the peasants.

Thats kind of a stupid way of putting it. It's pretty simple why our manufacturers didn't make the cars we are buying here. It costs too much.

It costs too much to reconfigure the factory to build them. It costs too much to build them in general and because of that too much to sell for export. And our market isn't big enough to make it viable to build them in general.

Same as with the toaster, would you pay $35k for the same base model Corolla that currently sells for $25k just because its made here.

You talk about companies wanting to make profits. If there were profits to be made then they wouldn't have abandoned manufacturing here.

[Franco Cozzo]

At the end of the day when you have free trade agreements with countries who work for a bowl of rice a month, you'll never be on an even playing field, add in around 2010 we went dollar for dollar with the USD.

Same with OHS/WHS requirements, various red tape, taxes, cost of power, dealing with three levels of government and answering to a foreign head office with its own political agenda.

Car manufacturing is highly automated anyway so surely labour costs aren't that much of a big picture anymore, the only place where its not worth doing automation to reduce the human component, is China because they have tonnes of human capital thats worthless - they just don't care about people.

Where Australia can compete is low volume high value manufacturing, think of the carbon fibre wheels made in Geelong, that company supplies product to Ford USA.

Problem is we're all too interested in selling fancy coffees, obsessed with capital gains swapping over priced houses around between each other and digging up dirt and selling it to China rather than actually investing in business to do the value-adding part.

It requires a reframing of the conversation and the mindset, but try get finance from a bank to start a business, then ask them about finance to buy an investment property and watch them throw money at you.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Same with OHS/WHS requirements, various red tape, taxes, cost of power, dealing with three levels of government and answering to a foreign head office with its own political agenda.

It is that kind of thing that will always be Australia's Achilleas Heal.

I had a real eye opener recently when a couple of staff took 2 weeks together and I jumped into a part accounts payable role.

Apart from the basics of electricity, gas, rates and stuff like that... Staff training, fire extinguisher service and testing, fire system monthly test and maintenance, cleaning, blocked toilets, pest control, general repairs and maintenance, service and maintain the courtesy buses, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... $980 to pressure wash the bird **** from around the front entrance. $4000 for anti bullying and harassment training. $4500 staff breakfast meeting and get together. $6000 a week to clean the kitchen (1 of 5 kitchens in total, I know 4 of them cost in total about $13k a week). $1500 CPR training. $2000 fire panel training. $6000 a month for the payroll system. Workcover. Auditing and reporting.

And all this is before cost of sales goods and wages. I'm stunned that this place makes money and can afford to operate.

And as we've just heard, power prices are going up somewhere between 15 and 30% next FY depending on location. Which is why they've just covered the roof with solar panels.

[zilo]

In 2008 the Aussie dollar was at parity with the US dollar.

Aussie built cars had no hope whatsoever of competing in the export market.

Mitsubishi was making 300 Magnas a day of which 220, yes 220 out of 300 had been exported to the US as the "Diamante" great when the AUD was at 0.48c in 2001.

But the Diamante was almost the price of a C class Mercedes when it was at parity...and even worse when it was $USD1.10 to $AUD1.00.

So Mitsubishi were the first to pull the pin....no US export market for the 380.
Instead Mitsubishi built plants in the US to manufacture the 380/9G Galant.
Australian production was way too expensive.

In his final speech in 2008 to the workers at Tonsley Park the CEO predicted Holden and Ford were soon to follow and that workers should consider employment outside of the automobile industry.

He was absolutely spot on.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by anobserver

More freight on Rail could be efficient, but why bother? Follow the money.

Socialise the costs (of roads) and privatise the profits (cough-Linfox-cough).

When regional rail lines close, truck usage and increased road maintenance costs largely become a local council problem. Plus, the former rail operators no longer have below rail costs.

Look at the closure of tier three grain lines in wa, or the Eyre peninsula freight lines in sa, for more examples. When privatised, the rail infrastructure was starved of basic maintenance (to maximise profits) until the lines became practically useless and no longer fit for purpose.

You would be amazed how much freight Linfox put on rail. They would like to put more on rail but as roads are so cheap to use for road transport coys and rail capacity is low on most sectors it is not easy to add more to rail but they are seriously trying.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by b0son

Good point. But christ it took a long time for the driver to find my order as he had to go through nearly the entire length of the B-triple. But watching him trying to get back out my street was comedy gold.

Wonder why they didn't transfer to a smaller truck at the depot ?

Don't get me wrong I'm pro rail and would love to see all bulk delivery on rail first then truck.

But the way ARTC, as other have said here, is not in our (the people who actually live along the inland rail route) best interests. Locally, we have lived with our own Vline/Countrylink passenger train services constantly delayed and canceled for years now since they butchered the track in 2007.

Not a lot of people all down the line have much confidence in the way they do business. I feel sorry for the private train operators who have to deal with this incompetent (hidden but name) Government dept.

(Yes look it up ARTC is a corporation solely owned by the Aust Government.)

Good new is (in Victoria) rail is making a bit of a comeback with a new line running out to the north west and some new passenger trains being introduced and some old station being re opened due to demand.

[b0son]

Agree. Rail is a national resource, the fed government need to take back control. But instead of having billions to spend on making a uniform rail network that is a viable alternative, we're sinking billions into NDIS so badly behaved kids can be diagnosed as autistic and get free horse rides and swimming lessons at our expense. And with the government so obsessed about looking good, they're too scared to do what's needed.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by arm79

It is that kind of thing that will always be Australia's Achilleas Heal.

I had a real eye opener recently when a couple of staff took 2 weeks together and I jumped into a part accounts payable role.

Apart from the basics of electricity, gas, rates and stuff like that... Staff training, fire extinguisher service and testing, fire system monthly test and maintenance, cleaning, blocked toilets, pest control, general repairs and maintenance, service and maintain the courtesy buses, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... $980 to pressure wash the bird **** from around the front entrance. $4000 for anti bullying and harassment training. $4500 staff breakfast meeting and get together. $6000 a week to clean the kitchen (1 of 5 kitchens in total, I know 4 of them cost in total about $13k a week). $1500 CPR training. $2000 fire panel training. $6000 a month for the payroll system. Workcover. Auditing and reporting.

And all this is before cost of sales goods and wages. I'm stunned that this place makes money and can afford to operate.

And as we've just heard, power prices are going up somewhere between 15 and 30% next FY depending on location. Which is why they've just covered the roof with solar panels.

how big a kitchen are we talking? Mine site full cafeteria?

*flies to Hervey Bay every week, cleans kitchen, invoices only $5,500

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Same with OHS/WHS requirements, various red tape, taxes, cost of power, dealing with three levels of government and answering to a foreign head office with its own political agenda.



Problem is we're all too interested in selling fancy coffees, obsessed with capital gains swapping over priced houses around between each other and digging up dirt and selling it to China rather than actually investing in business to do the value-adding part.

See this is where you pack the factory into a bus and drive off into the wide blue yonder at any sign of OH&S... If you're really smart you can sell coffees from the factory too. Gotta think outside the box.

[Sprintey]

These conversations have been going on for years, and when covid happened and the lockdowns began I began building machines once again and continued designing items I have about 30 years of experience in. I figured that having productive capacity of real physical things was valuable, even if the country appeared too stupid to support it an individual could.

There's lots of travel for me this year, but toward the end the project becomes operational and product will have been created and tested, and production will begin. The products aren't as complex as a car, but you gotta start somewhere.

[willo56]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

This is why one might be wise in working out alternative fuels or forms of transport, now. And stock up on toilet paper.

If the biggie happens sea lanes to/from Asia/China stop. I see getting most of our diesel refined in Singapore as problematic. Ford might have some trouble getting Ranger shipments down here from Thailand.

But on the flip side, the sea lane from West Coast US to Aus becomes far more important, wouldn't be surprised to see convoys bringing Texas Tea over to us (or their shale/fracked product).

.

yes the shipping lanes to the north east and north west are strategically critical as key choke points and probably why we are going all out with the new sub program and other long range strike platforms to give us options in case another hostile power follows the same approach as the imperial Japanese were doing back in the day

Australia has very little energy security which is insane as we are a massive energy exporter and running out of toilet paper would be the last thing to worry about, although it would be a ....*cough*...sheitty situation
(ok ill see myself out ...lol)

I remember the gov used to heavily subsidize LPG conversions for cars and its crazy that as one of the biggest exporters of gas in the world we aren't all driving duel fuel cars with domestically produced gas by now instead of being in situation where we sell our gas overseas cheaper than what we can buy it for locally .

Moving back to local car manufacturing , i see a domestic vehicle (and aviation)manufacturing capacity as something that also gives some national security/resilience in that it can be retooled for other things if needed (Both Ford and Holden locally built lots of things during WW2..)

And now with the removal of protection for local industry over the last few decades and the inevitable demise of local vehicle manufacturing and the secondary industries associated with it with like local parts supply , its made us even more reliant on extended overseas supply chains

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by b0son

ABut instead of having billions to spend on making a uniform rail network that is a viable alternative, we're sinking billions into NDIS so badly behaved kids can be diagnosed as autistic and get free horse rides and swimming lessons at our expense.

What about all those badly behaved adults on NDIS? You forgot them.

Maybe we just line up everyone receiving NDIS up against the wall, get rid of them and put in more rail.

While we are at it, lets also get rid of anyone on any form of welfare, more money for trains.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bungarra

What about all those badly behaved adults on NDIS? You forgot them.

Maybe we just line up everyone receiving NDIS up against the wall, get rid of them and put in more rail.

While we are at it, lets also get rid of anyone on any form of welfare, more money for trains.

Here's an idea. A bit left field.

How about the government actually provide oversight on the NDIS rorts rather than allowing them to happen. The system is ripe for the picking.

Just recently there was a story about the way NDIS had a set value for certain things, like holiday accommodation, that was thousands of dollars more expensive than what it was actually worth if the average person booked it themselves.

The business's just know they can significantly inflate their prices way above what they charge the general public because they know the government doesn't review it, and they will just pay the inflated amount.

No wonder the cost blowouts are in the billions.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

how big a kitchen are we talking? Mine site full cafeteria?

*flies to Hervey Bay every week, cleans kitchen, invoices only $5,500

The venue I work at I don't think its very big for the amount of meals it serves. It serves between 700 and 1200 main, entree and cafe meals a day and is staffed by 12 or so cooks and kitchen hands. The size of the dining space has grown over the years but the kitchen hasn't.

Like you I was thinking as I was printing out these invoices I'm in the wrong business. The numbers on them were crazy for what I think the job is worth, but maybe my opinion is skewed.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Here's an idea. A bit left field.

How about the government actually provide oversight on the NDIS rorts rather than allowing them to happen. The system is ripe for the picking.

Just recently there was a story about the way NDIS had a set value for certain things, like holiday accommodation, that was thousands of dollars more expensive than what it was actually worth if the average person booked it themselves.

The business's just know they can significantly inflate their prices way above what they charge the general public because they know the government doesn't review it, and they will just pay the inflated amount.

No wonder the cost blowouts are in the billions.

Yep, blame those who are approved suppliers under the NDIS Act 2013 that locked in the price ranges, not the disabled who were being blamed.

Easy to blame and label disabled as the Naughty Children.

I doubt GovCo would take the money and use it for rail but I could be proven wrong. I hope I will be.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Yep, blame those who are approved suppliers under the NDIS Act 2013 that locked in the price ranges, not the disabled who were being blamed.

Easy to blame and label disabled as the Naughty Children.

I doubt GovCo would take the money and use it for rail but I could be proven wrong. I hope I will be.

Its a national sport ripping off the taxpayer in Australia, thats the problem when the government doesn't have talented procurement teams.

Just like today how its been uncovered that labor hire companies have been ripping off the big build projects sending invoices for work they haven't been doing.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Easy to blame and label disabled as the Naughty Children.

There are 266,000 NDIS participants under the age of 18 and according to the NDIS and more than half have autism. Across the country – 1 out of every 10 boys aged 5 to 7 are on the NDIS, and doctors are now offering $5,000 to guarantee parents an official autism diagnosis.

Given autism is a lifelong condition, and not something that can be cured, that means 1 in 10 *males* have autism. Of course, this is nonsense, we're simply seeing the outcome of a generation of kids being raised with way too much screen time and not enough person to person engagement.

The flow-on of this is the government will soon spend more on NDIS than Medicare. 10's of billions that could be invested in economically productive infrastructure.

[GasoLane]

I think we've been off topic for long enough for the thread to finish like Ford and GMH.

If you would care to carry on any off topic conversations that have been brought up here, feel free to start a new thread.

In the correct area not The Pub which is supposed to be For General Automotive Related Talk.


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