VFACTS Dec 2023 and full year

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

There's a lot more to the dualcab aftermarket than just suspension

True. I forgot about the sticker kits directing people to the driver's instagram.

#lapofaustralia #livinthedream #blessed

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yes, its going to effect Toyota and their Hilux sales, but look at Toyota's total sales - not a two horse race like Ford Australia is, they have significantly more sales because they offer 20+ options to our market.

Back in the says of the EF Falcon when Ford Australia were last in number 1, what was the model breakdown of their sales, how many different vehicles did they offer to the market?

If Toyota lost ALL Hilux sales for 2023, they would STILL be number 1 seller of the year at just over 154k vehicles. Its what happens when you have a whole range of vehicles, that actually sell. Its something concerning with Ford. Sure while things are good and they are selling a ton of Rangers its all sunshine and lollypops but if the a$$ falls out they don't have other models to fall back on....

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by roKWiz
Not far away here, in the US they recently introduced mandatory Elogs on all (real) trucks built after 2000. These new logs record everything a gov agency would want. The technology would be easy to introduce to fleet and ABN holders claiming these.

I agree. I'm self employed and I claim most stuff for my Ranger but I would be happy to have GPS logged data for tax use.


While we are on a tangent, my mate has worked at Telstra since 1999, he gets a vehicle to take home but zero personal use - no exceptions. Start it when you log on in the morning and turn it off when you log out in the arvo. At the start of employment they had to declare where the vehicle was being parked at night. Around 2010ish they brought in GPS tracking to all vehicles, around 30% of the techs quit saying invasion of privacy or similar. I can't work that one out considering they are 100% work use only....

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Good, something like that for people claiming 100% business use is needed,
they could geofence the person’s home suburb to permit a small amount of
incidental travelling outside of normal work hours, anything else should need
to be justified as either out of hours work/travel or non-business use.

Technology is the answer, those cheating the system will give up when
electric travel records are required and they can’t cook the books.

We already run a system like that in NZ called E - Road just a GPS system you can geo fence it to speed limits ( log overspeeds) ,ⁿalso geofence off highway / private land running for the likes of logging trucks , milk tankers where there's a lot of savings in RUC (road user charge) it can be precisely automatically discounted from your daily use , a lot easier than working on averages for runs and office staff having to manually apply the calculations to each day's run

You can do the same with couriers ,tradie utes etc

[CyberWasp]

Large Anomalies would show up like a beacon in the ATO when processing peoples Tax Returns.
People that claim way above the average would be audited in no time.
With the amount of Data being crunched I would not think you could cheat the system too far.
I am sure we all know someone who claims excessively at tax time, and has been audited.
The system does its thing.

Yes the technology would be there to have your Etag for example, GPS Track you and record all your driving for the ATO but do we really want to go there?

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Large Anomalies would show up like a beacon in the ATO when processing peoples Tax Returns.
People that claim way above the average would be audited in no time.
With the amount of Data being crunched I would not think you could cheat the system too far.
I am sure we all know someone who claims excessively at tax time, and has been audited.
The system does its thing.

Yes the technology would be there to have your Etag for example, GPS Track you and record all your driving for the ATO but do we really want to go there?

It doesn't matter whether you want to or not the tech is there if someone can make a buck out of selling it , ....it will happen

[prydey]

These threads used to be about 'death of the falcon' until the falcon actually did die.

Then interest in the threads dwindled for a few years until the next 'bandwagon' came along.

Now every thread eventually turns to 'Thailand special tax incentives' with the same members getting 'outraged' each month.

Apparently the only people buying these cars are business owners gaming the system. Apparently we'd all be driving small manual cars if 'incentives' were taken away.

Here's a thought. If incentives got removed, would the sales change or would the prices of new cars change.

Pretty sure it doesn't cost $60k to build a ute.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by prydey

These threads used to be about 'death of the falcon' until the falcon actually did die.

Then interest in the threads dwindled for a few years until the next 'bandwagon' came along.

Now every thread eventually turns to 'Thailand special tax incentives' with the same members getting 'outraged' each month.

Apparently the only people buying these cars are business owners gaming the system. Apparently we'd all be driving small manual cars if 'incentives' were taken away.

Here's a thought. If incentives got removed, would the sales change or would the prices of new cars change.

Pretty sure it doesn't cost $60k to build a ute.

Good to see someone's learning something here.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

These threads used to be about 'death of the falcon' until the falcon actually did die.

Then interest in the threads dwindled for a few years until the next 'bandwagon' came along.

Now every thread eventually turns to 'Thailand special tax incentives' with the same members getting 'outraged' each month.

Apparently the only people buying these cars are business owners gaming the system. Apparently we'd all be driving small manual cars if 'incentives' were taken away.

Here's a thought. If incentives got removed, would the sales change or would the prices of new cars change.

Pretty sure it doesn't cost $60k to build a ute.

On that thought,
I remember a few years ago when PX2 (?) Wildtrak came out and Ford was testing the upper limit with a $65k Ute…
Today, I think you’d struggle to get a decently optioned up XLT crew cab for that amount….

Shortages in the pandemic didn’t help but I have to wonder, now that Ford has a lot more
boat delivery capacity, are we seeing a new higher sales level or one that’s still reflecting
a ton of back orders…..are we expecting to see an easing of deliveries once the backlog ends?
Or dose the new capacity suggest that more buyers will go order Ranger /Everest once deliveries
come down to under three months?
I really don’t know.

Tax incentives and surveillance is a curly question, I don’t think the government wants to change anything
especially if enough swing voters are ready to punish them at the next election…

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

If Toyota lost ALL Hilux sales for 2023, they would STILL be number 1 seller of the year at just over 154k vehicles. It’s what happens when you have a whole range of vehicles, that actually sell. It’s something concerning with Ford

Absolutely and it’s to do with the dysfunction of Dearborn that it sees our RHD market as a subset of Ford UK.
That’s simply because it couldn’t be f’ed making additional RHD models for our market, heck we can’t even
get enough of the ones that Ford Europe is supposed to be supplying us.

Sure while things are good and they are selling a ton of Rangers it’s all sunshine and lollypops but if the a$$ falls out they don't have other models to fall back on....

What else is Ford Australia to do if it can’t get other vehicles to sell?
Many people default to the proverb, “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket”
I would argue that’s what Holden did and look what happened to them.

No Ford Australia was right to double down on Ranger/Everest and really push them
because not doing so when you have nothing else to sell is the quick road out of business.
Many other Ford vehicles that would interest Australian buyers are simply not available

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On that thought,
I remember a few years ago when PX2 (?) Wildtrak came out and Ford was testing the upper limit with a $65k Ute…
Today, I think you’d struggle to get a decently optioned up XLT crew cab for that amount….

Shortages in the pandemic didn’t help but I have to wonder, now that Ford has a lot more
boat delivery capacity, are we seeing a new higher sales level or one that’s still reflecting
a ton of back orders…..are we expecting to see an easing of deliveries once the backlog ends?
Or dose the new capacity suggest that more buyers will go order Ranger /Everest once deliveries
come down to under three months?
I really don’t know.

Tax incentives and surveillance is a curly question, I don’t think the government wants to change anything
especially if enough swing voters are ready to punish them at the next election…

I think you'd have to be an eternal optimist to think the last few months sales is anything more than reducing the backlog.

[lra]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What else is Ford Australia to do if it can’t get other vehicles to sell?
Many people default to the proverb, “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket”
I would argue that’s what Holden did and look what happened to them.

No. It is not what Holden did.

It is what GM forced on Holden ( GM HQ knows it all ). ****boxes from Korea, (young bloke doesn't want a car like what his father had ), and a fully imported German Commodore, and imported Mexican SUVs.
Now, GM are running around looking for their backside in the dark, while sales slide and their EVs break down 100 yards from the dealer showroom.

Bob Lutz, take bow. You done good.
Mary Barra, Mark Reuss, don't take a bow, you have done ****house.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by prydey

These threads used to be about 'death of the falcon' until the falcon actually did die.

Then interest in the threads dwindled for a few years until the next 'bandwagon' came along.

Now every thread eventually turns to 'Thailand special tax incentives' with the same members getting 'outraged' each month.

Apparently the only people buying these cars are business owners gaming the system. Apparently we'd all be driving small manual cars if 'incentives' were taken away.

Here's a thought. If incentives got removed, would the sales change or would the prices of new cars change.

Pretty sure it doesn't cost $60k to build a ute.

The “death of the Falcon” has been started by the media, from the days of Project Capricorn. I’m 30 and I can’t remember a time that the Falcon wasn’t death ridden in the media.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

These threads used to be about 'death of the falcon' until the falcon actually did die.

Then interest in the threads dwindled for a few years until the next 'bandwagon' came along.

Now every thread eventually turns to 'Thailand special tax incentives' with the same members getting 'outraged' each month.

Apparently the only people buying these cars are business owners gaming the system. Apparently we'd all be driving small manual cars if 'incentives' were taken away.

Here's a thought. If incentives got removed, would the sales change or would the prices of new cars change.

Pretty sure it doesn't cost $60k to build a ute.

Yep, you'd see a growth in EV sales, just like they already have when they recently made EV's FBT exempt, which lead to a growth in EV sales.

However there's still more exemptions applicable on Thailand Specials that come into play with claiming things like family tax benefit, childcare subsidies and all that jazz - that don't apply to EVs that are FBT exempt, because Thailand Specials aren't considered 'cars'.

If you buy the FBT exempt EV, rather than the FBT exempt Thailand Special you cause issues claiming other entitlements.

Make it a level playing field between EV's and Thailand Specials and you'd see the market shift accordingly, just like we did towards Thailand Specials when all the tax advantages started happening.

There's no 'outrage' here, drive what you want, but the market is being influenced by government policy and you can't deny it, I've been harping on about it for years, now the media is picking up on it, and there's pressure on the government to promote environmentally friendly options instead of diesel utes from Thailand.

The political party running the show is massively hemorrhaging votes from the largest voting demographic in the country to other political parties because their lack of 'green credentials', there's also a loosely aligned group of rich white women in a coalition who are in there solely on environmental issues that were bankrolled by a billionaire who harps on about the environment constantly - if you don't think both of these issues in Canberra is going to effect subsidies on diesel utes thats going to cause a change in customers buying habits, you've got rocks in your head.

You wont be having the sales discussion about the top three market movers without talking about Canberra's influence in the market and if you do, its disinformation - end of story.

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yep, you'd see a growth in EV sales, just like they already have when they recently made EV's FBT exempt, which lead to a growth in EV sales.

However there's still more exemptions applicable on Thailand Specials that come into play with claiming things like family tax benefit, childcare subsidies and all that jazz - that don't apply to EVs that are FBT exempt, because Thailand Specials aren't considered 'cars'.

If you buy the FBT exempt EV, rather than the Thailand Special you cause issues claiming other entitlements.

Make it a level playing field between EV's and Thailand Specials and you'd see the market shift accordingly, just like we did towards Thailand Specials when all the tax advantages started happening.

There's no 'outrage' here, drive what you want, but the market is being influenced by government policy and you can't deny it.

BYD will release a hybrid dual cab ute this year and an electric version next year. They will be exempt from FBT for EVs and utes and family friendly, at least around town. They will be useless towing the family camper too far from home, though, but this ute will meet your guidelines for tax advantages.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

BYD will release a hybrid dual cab ute this year and an electric version next year. They will be exempt from FBT for EVs and utes and family friendly, at least around town. They will be useless towing the family camper too far from home, though, but this ute will meet your guidelines for tax advantages.

I'm interested to monitor their sales over a 12 month period, thats for sure.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by lra

No. It is not what Holden did.

It is what GM forced on Holden ( GM HQ knows it all ). ****boxes from Korea, (young bloke doesn't want a car like what his father had ), and a fully imported German Commodore, and imported Mexican SUVs.
Now, GM are running around looking for their backside in the dark, while sales slide and their EVs break down 100 yards from the dealer showroom.

Bob Lutz, take bow. You done good.
Mary Barra, Mark Reuss, don't take a bow, you have done ****house.

Really doesn’t bother me either way, Holden had no plan B, ZB failed as we all expected and the rest followed.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yep, you'd see a growth in EV sales, just like they already have when they recently made EV's FBT exempt, which lead to a growth in EV sales.

However there's still more exemptions applicable on Thailand Specials that come into play with claiming things like family tax benefit, childcare subsidies and all that jazz - that don't apply to EVs that are FBT exempt, because Thailand Specials aren't considered 'cars'.

If you buy the FBT exempt EV, rather than the FBT exempt Thailand Special you cause issues claiming other entitlements.

Make it a level playing field between EV's and Thailand Specials and you'd see the market shift accordingly, just like we did towards Thailand Specials when all the tax advantages started happening.

There's no 'outrage' here, drive what you want, but the market is being influenced by government policy and you can't deny it,

Your argument is based on vehicle pricing staying the same if incentives were removed or changed.

History shows that any rebates on any product affect the product price, and when those rebates end, the product price comes back down. LPG conversions, rainwater tanks, solar panels.. Etcetc.

Rather than look at sales of utes prior to incentives, look at the pricing structure.

Remove incentives and a lot less people will pay $60-80k for a ute. Chances are magically ute prices would also fall.

I just don't buy the notion that ute sales would become obsolete like some are inferring.

[buggerlugs]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-...vene/103287604

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-...vene/103287604

Wow, an ABC story which has no mention from the Garvan Institute.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-...vene/103287604

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/busi...-loading-zones
Error in that article about loading zone use, you can't park in a loading zone in Victoria using the spot as short term parking even if driving a ute....unless...

Designing loading zones
Loading zones are provided to allow the pick up or delivery of loads or people close to their destination. They are not provided for short term parking.

What are they all about?
You can stop in a loading zone for up to 30 minutes (or as otherwise signed) if you are dropping off, or picking up goods or passengers and meet the following conditions.

People carrying goods must drive a:

• goods-carrying vehicle
• courier or signed delivery vehicle
• truck which is dropping off or picking up goods

People carrying passengers must drive a:

• bus or vehicle which has seating positions for 10, 11 or 12 adults (including the driver) that is being used to carry passengers for hire or reward
• public bus
• licensed commercial passenger vehicles such as taxis, hire cars or other special purpose vehicles

Other drivers must not stop in a loading zone, even if loading or unloading.

So even a tradie with legitimate work use, cannot stay in a loading zone outside the limits/restrictions above and would need dispensation/a temporary parking permit from council.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Error in that article .

Fact checking is a thing of the past for most 'story writers' these days.

The 'big car' story is just the latest to gain traction amongst those minority groups that think they are a majority because they reside in an echo chamber.

[Adamz Ghia]

I don’t know that we have anything to worry about on a federal level from these people. The Libs won an election by scaring people into believing Labor was taking away their SUV’s and the weekends away. This message was one of their biggest cut through from that campaign. I doubt Albo will take this on.

State level, who knows. We have no opposition in Victoria.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

State level, who knows. We have no opposition in Victoria.

You've got no proper Government either. Just sayin'.

Dr Terry

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

You've got no proper Government either. Just sayin'.

Dr Terry

Just like QLD.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/busi...-loading-zones
Error in that article about loading zone use, you can't park in a loading zone in Victoria using the spot as short term parking even if driving a ute....unless...



So even a tradie with legitimate work use, cannot stay in a loading zone outside the limits/restrictions above and would need dispensation/a temporary parking permit from council.

Years ago the registration label (remember them?) had either Private or Commercial printed on them. You actually paid a different rate for commercial.
You had to be commercially registered to park in a loading zone

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Fact checking is a thing of the past for most 'story writers' these days.

The 'big car' story is just the latest to gain traction amongst those minority groups that think they are a majority because they reside in an echo chamber.

Problem is that minority is disproportionately powerful

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Years ago the registration label (remember them?) had either Private or Commercial printed on them. You actually paid a different rate for commercial.
You had to be commercially registered to park in a loading zone

Yes I do remember very well, those that were lazy just kept adding the new rego label above/below/around the expired one...

Our local council has gone to electronic beach parking permits so you have to register your car with the council. The parking officer has to enter in the rego plate of every parked car (or maybe scan it) to confirm the car is legally parked whereas before a 5 second peek at a windscreen sticker would indicate yay or nay...plus now some will park illegally and gamble being booked.