A Thread To Come up with IDEAS for P-plate laws

[[Tonko]]

I have no answers, but i know for the first year of my P's, I drove hard and braked harder, it wasnt until a close call one rainy morning on a deserted road that i smartened up...
Maybe a Driver training course would be the go?
And Its not the car that kills, its the idiot behind the wheel.... I get people telling me to "smoke it up" or "give them a run" but it dosent take much to flip them off and drive normally...

[plext]

Originally Posted by HLC

power to weight ratio stuff is useless.

yeah it might take you a lot longer to get to the speed limit.

but if you hit a telegraph pole at 100+ kph, regardless if you are in a charade, or xr6t or something faster, you will most probably get dead.

I find this argument to be somewhat of a strawman.

While it is a decided fact that most people ploughing into poles at speed will die, I don't really see the intent of these laws being to stop that as you just cannot.

Fact is though that a lot of modern machinery can accelerate at a rate that was unheard of except in very exotic circles not so long ago, meaning that the time honoured "quick blat down the main street to wake up the locals" so beloved by some young drivers (yes, guilty when I was younger) can have the vehicle moving at scary speeds, whereas at one time you were only really being a nuisance by the racket you were making.

Also fact is that if the said acceleration is available, the tendency is to use it for kicks, which again in a lot of modern cars takes you into large numbers on the speedo very quickly. They can basically get you into a whole lot of trouble in a very short time.

I know for certain that given my bravado and lack of experience at 17, had you put the power available in my Pursuit in my hands, the odds are very good that I would not be typing this, I managed to get into enough drama with the 100 odd Kw my XE gave me.

Bottom line is a lot of people (NOTE: not all) in the age group do not consider reprecussions too well and more or less live for the moment, I know this because I sure as hell did and sometimes wonder how on earth I made it through.

There are and will be some young drivers who could be given 500Kw and would never run into trouble with it, but it has to be said that there are one hell of a lot who cannot be viewed in the same manner. I was certainly in the latter group, but cannot find the laws overly restrictive or freedom inhibiting. I have issues with the crazy way they are framed in some cases, but must conceed the good intent of them.

These kind of laws are realistically still giving young driver access to higher performance than the likes of what my age group enjoyed, sure we had no laws saying we could not, but to get even the performance of a BA XT was typically way beyond the budget of all of my mates. The V8's and 6's we drove were typically loud and in hindsight, bloody slow. To make fast cars took cash we just did not have.

I have no doubt that somebody will pop in here with a story of some 17 year old who had a GTHO or E39, which is likely true, but uncommon to say the least. I will still maintain that overall, you're actually no worse off than we were performance wise, and certainly no worse a bunch of drivers, it's just the baseline on fast has shifted a lot in the last 20 years.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by plext

Bottom line is a lot of people (NOTE: not all) in the age group do not consider reprecussions too well and more or less live for the moment, I know this because I sure as hell did and sometimes wonder how on earth I made it through.

There are and will be some young drivers who could be given 500Kw and would never run into trouble with it, but it has to be said that there are one hell of a lot who cannot be viewed in the same manner. I was certainly in the latter group, but cannot find the laws overly restrictive or freedom inhibiting. I have issues with the crazy way they are framed in some cases, but must conceed the good intent of them.

Well said mate, and its 100% true. Here for a good time, not a long time is the majority opinion in most of the people I know.

But you can add however many regulations and laws you want, I know people that honestly dont give a flying rats and 3months loss of licence is nothing to them, they'll probably keep driving. I know people that have put cars into poles and been lucky to walk away but will get into the next car to come along and do the exact same thing without a second thought. No law will change that, the only people that will obey any new law or regulations will be the ones who did it beforehand. The only thing that will happen will be that there will be more P-Platers getting booked.
Give ME any car, and I'll find a way to have fun it in and it probably wont be legal, ever seen a 4 Cylinder car on Maccas trays? How it that going to stop anything.

[EB 2 XR8]

the thing is people won't follow these rules. There is no way a 17 or a 18 year old is going to refuse people to jump into their car after that 9pm curfue 1 passenger stupid law. Youngsters will still do it.

I lost my lisence for 6 months. now i ride a bike to work. i wear a helmet and ride on the footpath. always use the crossing e.t.c. I got pulled over for doing nothing wrong. They put their lights on and told me dismount of the bike. they did a background check on me and the bike. and i didn't do anything wrong. im used to it though, i know police are out to get me so i just get it on with police = a**holes. its simple

[playtime141618]

The one’s that gets to me are the curfew and restricting people in cars. I’m a county boy who was on my P’s a couple years back and coming from a town with no public transport there is noway a curfew should be in place. Other wise as soon as it hits mid night what are the P platers suppose to do? Stop right there then door nock the Nambour hood getting people out of bed “excuse me sir it is to late for me to drive could you plz drive my car home and have some one follow to bring you back?”

And with the price of fuel that expect the people who least can afford to pay for it, to have 5 people in 5 cars using 5 times the fuel? Dose this mean that the government should subsidise the price of fuel of P platers? I know we all chipped in for petrol money and still do. And by having a bunch of mates in there own car isn’t that likely to get them to start behaving like idiots showing off. I know that’s what happens to me.

the problem is that the people who make the laws are not effected by what discissions they reach if there suggesting something they should try it out for a month first and see how much of a pain it is.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by EB 2 XR8

i know police are out to get me so i just get it on with police = a**holes. its simple

Do you lie awake at night concerned alians are coming to get you too....?

[Jock260]

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

ok guys and girls, here is what this thread is about:
seeing as P-Plate restrictions seem to keep popping up and fights always start i thought it would be a good IDEA to start BRAINSTORMING some ideas on realistic and fair P-Plate laws/restrictions. PLEASE i do not want crap posted in this thread, or fights starting out as i am SERIOUSLY thinking about sending this off to the government and trying to get this passed via petition.

i am one for all p-plate laws in Australia been the SAME! no more different state, different rules.

so lets start a list, remember ANYONE is free to post in this thread, so try not to be naive, and please DO NOT start fights in this thread.

so lets start a list ey?

1. a power to weight ratio limit such as 100kw/tonne 1st year, 120kw/tonne 2nd year, 140kw/tonne 3rd year, giving P-platers a GRADUATED licensing system and letting them get used to more powerful cars.

2. modification RESTRICTIONS (must have proof of power output after modifications by an authorised performance shop and must be within power to weight limits, unless an official exemption has been priorly made)

3. Tougher repercussions on "hoons" such as, no upgrade in power output for 12months, fine/demerit points etc etc

4. 1 (one) driver training day is COMPULSUARY before getting your P's

5. 0 (zero) tolerance on BAC, must be .000 to drive

6. breatherliser ignition locks fitted to those caught drink driving

feel free to add to the list but keep it fair

Perfect Trev.

[cjf]

Imo any further changes to the laws should be done fairly , and not in a discrimatory fashion as is the case now , currently the the laws a being modified in a knee jerk reaction to media hipe and not actually based on hard facts or figures. Now State governments attention is being focused on older drivers/pensioners so look out any one over 40 because you are next.
Here is my opinion all drivers should face the same laws and restrictions this would quickly nullify any disrimination and might make some of you come back to reality, as some of your proposal are ridiculous as are nsw's latest laws.
I would also like to see the age of anyone who posts a comment on this thread , to be added to there comment so others can see if there is any pattern of dicrimatory behaviour amongst your user .
I'll kick it off with mine 40 years old. Being driving legally on Nsw roads since I was 15 years old ,as I had a special licence granted due to living in a remote area and neading to get to work.( No public transport)

[xy351]

GIVE US FACILITIES! legal "hooning" facilities mean less hooning on roads means less crashes on roads and somewhere for all of us to enjoy our passion. the laws are rooted... some politician thought "well v8's must be fast, lets ban them for p platers" a new I6 is going to be faster then a stock 289 .any car can do 140 km/h and lose control and people die. not just a v8. and why wear p plates? for gods sake what a joke. And i agree with anyone who said that the government should provide driver training when you get your p's, thats how you save lives.. not ridiculous laws tempting people to break them.

RE-OPEN LAKESIDE!!!

[cjf]

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

ok guys and girls, here is what this thread is about:
seeing as P-Plate restrictions seem to keep popping up and fights always start i thought it would be a good IDEA to start BRAINSTORMING some ideas on realistic and fair P-Plate laws/restrictions. PLEASE i do not want crap posted in this thread, or fights starting out as i am SERIOUSLY thinking about sending this off to the government and trying to get this passed via petition.

i am one for all p-plate laws in Australia been the SAME! no more different state, different rules.

so lets start a list, remember ANYONE is free to post in this thread, so try not to be naive, and please DO NOT start fights in this thread.

so lets start a list ey?

1. a power to weight ratio limit such as 100kw/tonne 1st year, 120kw/tonne 2nd year, 140kw/tonne 3rd year, giving P-platers a GRADUATED licensing system and letting them get used to more powerful cars.

2. modification RESTRICTIONS (must have proof of power output after modifications by an authorised performance shop and must be within power to weight limits, unless an official exemption has been priorly made)

3. Tougher repercussions on "hoons" such as, no upgrade in power output for 12months, fine/demerit points etc etc

4. 1 (one) driver training day is COMPULSUARY before getting your P's

5. 0 (zero) tolerance on BAC, must be .000 to drive

6. breatherliser ignition locks fitted to those caught drink driving

feel free to add to the list but keep it fair

Hey XCsedan why don't you volunteer yourself the be the first guinea pig for these new measures it would only be fair .

[redxm]

I heard an interview with a profeesor on the radio the other week. What he basically said is the young males brain is not capable of long atgtention spans until 19 or 20.
17yr old you can drive a car on your own BUT you cant vote, drink or smoke as you are not responsible enough. So someone has it wrong dont they?

[playtime141618]

Though at 18 the government are more than happy to send you off to WAR

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by cuz351

I've made up my mind... your a moron. : : :

Regardless of whether you're right or wrong (I'm not getting involved), insulting people doesn't really serve any purpose, especially when your grammar is incorrect. You are = You're.

Chill dude. :

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by playtime141618

Though at 18 the government are more than happy to send you off to WAR

That's because you're (not you personally) expendable and they use naivety to their advantage.

[XCSEDAN]

Originally Posted by cjf

Hey XCsedan why don't you volunteer yourself the be the first guinea pig for these new measures it would only be fair .

im actually happy to do that, i'm on my Ps now and i think these laws are fair
but im sure others dont?
tell you what, how bout when i get a chance, i'll go down to Eltham Police Station and ask them what i can do about it?
and ask for some of their input on idea etc etc?

Originally Posted by Jock260

Perfect Trev.

i can't tell if that's sarcasm or not : but im assuming not

[cuz]

Originally Posted by xy351

GIVE US FACILITIES! legal "hooning" facilities mean less hooning on roads means less crashes on roads and somewhere for all of us to enjoy our passion. the laws are rooted... some politician thought "well v8's must be fast, lets ban them for p platers" a new I6 is going to be faster then a stock 289 .any car can do 140 km/h and lose control and people die. not just a v8. and why wear p plates? for gods sake what a joke. And i agree with anyone who said that the government should provide driver training when you get your p's, thats how you save lives.. not ridiculous laws tempting people to break them.

RE-OPEN LAKESIDE!!!

Now thats true. I would have loved to have a legal, safe hooning environment to have a blast in as a younger fella. Places like lakeside, winton, calder, etc could all do it.

[EB 2 XR8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Do you lie awake at night concerned alians are coming to get you too....?

Alians? i presume you mean 'aliens', and no your an idot. police can do anyone for anything if they want. Better of, to except it and try not to break the law.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by EB 2 XR8

Alians? i presume you mean 'aliens', and no your an idot. police can do anyone for anything if they want. Better of, to except it and try not to break the law.

Ok. I'll make it clear that I have no bias towards 4VMan, but I have said before that insulting people directly is a) pointless and b) exposes yourself.

You have provided two gems.

Firstly, it is spelled "you're", not your. Secondly, I have no idea what an idot is.

Eliminate the insults...they really serve no purpose.

Thumbs up for the suggestion of controlled environments for clowning. Means less on the road. Oh...sorry, that makes sense; the politicians will never agree.

[redisg00d]

as an older p-plate driver (39) and now a mother of a 16 year old girl that has her L-plate driver, it comes back to how most of us are taught to drive as well !! alot of parents aren't teaching their children to drive they are being taught by driving school and they only teach the kids to drive a car to pass their driving test and nothing else.
maybe it should step back to how they have been taught i think that should also include when they do the test for their p's how to change a tyre, (in some case where is the spare tyre), how do you check oil, water, fuses, etc genral matinance.
i'm shore that many of the older drivers had their cars young and it was their mum and dad's (normaly the dad's) had you out learning how to drive on some dirt road out the back of nowhere!! and if you did something wrong you didn't get another lesson until you learnt not to do it again, and for punishment you had to hand wash and clean out the car!!!

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by redisg00d

as an older p-plate driver (39) and now a mother of a 16 year old girl that has her L-plate driver, it comes back to how most of us are taught to drive as well !! alot of parents aren't teaching their children to drive they are being taught by driving school and they only teach the kids to drive a car to pass their driving test and nothing else.
maybe it should step back to how they have been taught i think that should also include when they do the test for their p's how to change a tyre, (in some case where is the spare tyre), how do you check oil, water, fuses, etc genral matinance.
i'm shore that many of the older drivers had their cars young and it was their mum and dad's (normaly the dad's) had you out learning how to drive on some dirt road out the back of nowhere!! and if you did something wrong you didn't get another lesson until you learnt not to do it again, and for punishment you had to hand wash and clean out the car!!!

Nope I hated driving with my parents they yell too much.

I learnt to drive being sideways at a 100 kays down a dirt road and being on my motorbike L's learning to always be scanning so some senile old fart in a Camry doesn't run you over.

I know what you mean about driving schools a lot of the P platers who came through barely know the basics including some idiot mate who was shocking at changing the clutch and slipped the clutch when trying to do a burnout (poor car). And some chick who was in my class who was the daughter of an RTA tester and flat refused to believe me that the right lane is the overtaking lane not the left on the highway.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Nope I hated driving with my parents they yell too much.

Maybe an indication of a few things most of us suspect..?

Originally Posted by sleekism

I know what you mean about driving schools a lot of the P platers who came through barely know the basics including some idiot mate who was shocking at changing the clutch and slipped the clutch when trying to do a burnout (poor car).

Not sure "burnouts" are part of the driving school course or a requirement for a pass for P Plates... :

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe an indication of a few things most of us suspect..?


Not sure "burnouts" are part of the driving school course or a requirement for a pass for P Plates... :

Come on mate I think most parents yell and it's not because your doing anything wrong but because they are not in control of the vehicle. Plus my old man is a tight *** and I had my L's when fuel first started going up and I learnt in an XE if that gives you an idea.

The comment about burnouts about clutch control. I was taught by the old man to NEVER EVER ride the clutch but mates I know who went to driving school were taught to have the clutch half on and use the accelerate.

Is it good for the clutch to do this??? All I know that all the mates who went through driving school now have buggered clutches while my old Laser's clutch is still perfect.

[Mongoose]

Well, i strongly agree with alot of other people who think mandatory diving courses are good, BUT, honestly, that is far to difficult for most people, and they will end up having a cry about it witch will result in the requirements been watered down to suit the lowest common denominator, and we will be back to square 1. There isint a whole lot we can do about it when it comes to dealing with govenment agencies unfortunately.

[Scone]

I am an old bastard but make em drive something that doesnt go fast, my first car was a Pug 404 nice cruiser with a top speed of 70 mph. 0 to 100 k about 30 seconds. Had that for a couple of years then got a P76 executive V8 ahh what a weapon

[T-BOOST]

Originally Posted by xy351

GIVE US FACILITIES! legal "hooning" facilities mean less hooning on roads means less crashes on roads and somewhere for all of us to enjoy our passion. the laws are rooted... And i agree with anyone who said that the government should provide driver training when you get your p's, thats how you save lives.. not ridiculous laws tempting people to break them.

RE-OPEN LAKESIDE!!!

Im sure there's plenty of money to do this. The govenment will say otherwise of course. They just need to hold back on a couple of those expensive and graphic comercials they make and there's the funding.

[gazza750]

this topic make me laugh!!!!!!
yeArs ago ya got ya l plates @ 16 years and 9 months got ya p's at 17 andd 12months later were unrestricted
you know why young p plate drivers think they are good drivers and don't want to do advanced driver training courses???
it's because they have spent 12 months and thousands of dollars uner this new system just to get their license '
on a per capita basis the road toll is about 15 % lower than it was 10/15 years ago
yes the ptb (powers that be ) will tell us too many young people are getting killed on our roads and that the road toll is too high but statistically it is NOT increasing on a per capita basis back in the 70'2 over 350 people a year were getting killed on west aus roads .. now there is still less than 400 killed each year and i can guarantee there wis over the twice the population there now and about 3 times as many cars than there was then.
the whole thing is just political scaremongering to keep *stealing * money off our young people by ripping them off by charging $50+ an hour for lessons plus the couple hundred they charge for ya written exam pprac test and then the hazard perception test
i remember getting my license many years ago (i am now 44 so ya cant say i am a youngun whinging about the costs and time involved)i had 3 lessons through a driving school and then got my license and in my day a learner was only allowed to travel @ 72 kph p plate max was 80 k (only on p's for 12months) then ya were free to do what u wanted with no restriction on what ya could drive throughout any stage of l's and p's
so trying to place so many restrictions on young drivers is and has been a complete tax payer funded wasted of advertising

[redisg00d]

less people on the road then!!! i had my license at 18 i drove every thing from a ford V8 to a sirrera then having to go back and get my licence again after 14years i know the differences!!!!!!

[SiKoRa_eL_97]

Down with them suggestions i say we keep power to weight ratio

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by redisg00d

Alot of parents aren't teaching their children to drive; they are being taught by driving school and they only teach the kids to drive a car to pass their driving test and nothing else.

I don't necessarily agree. I had a very firm but experienced instructor who said that driving isn't about a test - it's about staying alive and getting to your destination safely, and his job was to teach/improve my skills to ensure that I do not become another statistic.

I will say that my parents taught me the basics of driving (along with applying the rules that are covered in the Learner book) but my old man hardly drives because he always makes my Mum drive, and Mum is not a teacher; she couldn't even potty train my brother and I properly. She literally did not know what to do.

I found the instructor a very important part of my driver education who taught me how to better utilise my mirrors and be vigilant for idiot drivers. I have used all the skills the instructor taught me thus far and this has helped me be better aware of cars around me, as well as avoid spasticated Camry drivers who cut me off suddenly or drive 30km under the speed limit.

[GSfalcon500]

Originally Posted by TomXY

how about after passing the driving test you get your full license and 12 points and can drive whatever car you want, but theres still 3 chances for hoons.

Sounds good .I mean if you pass a driving test that means you are competent enuff to drive right? You should be able to drive any car you want.

It all comes down to the attitude of the driver.I knew a guy that got his licence the same time as me and he had a old mazda 808 but would flog the crap out of it and peel out at every intersection with it. It was a gutless 4 cylinder but didnt stop him from being a tool.

How about this for an idea,if you get caught doing somthing stupid in the first couple of years, insted of paying the fine make them do a driving course costing the same amount of the fine and teach them the limitations of their driving skills and the performance of their car.