Driving / Spot lights

[Foobar]

Just wondering what the legalities are using the driving lights on say a BA XR6/8 are? There's so many cars out there now with these things and years ago I was told that it was illegal to use them in 'built up areas' etc so if anyone knows of laws preventing the use of them, please let us all know.

Cheers!

[sgt_doofey]

It's illegal to use them unless in adverse driving conditions.

[LTDHO]

Here we go again......

Foobar, you might get more answers from a search as this topic turns into an arguement.

They are illegal unless in poor weather or owner of a Commodore and think you are Mark Scaife.

[Keepleft]

Further to Sgt Doofey, very mild technical stuff:-

The lamp 'compliance code' shown on the lens will have on it the letter "B", eg; '02B' near the E-mark (Example; E13 or E1 etc), this letter 'B' represents certified compliance for a front fog lamps technical specification, and not for spot or driving lamps - which bear instead the letter "R", example 'HR' on the lens.

The switch that operates them bears the ISO front fog symbol.
The wiring and mounting of such for cars, vans and 4WD is per front fog requirement in ADR13 and NVS - which allows operation on park/low/high-beam. Traffic law governs 'use' of lamps.

Driving/spot lamps operate in conjunction with high-beam headlamps only.

Front fog lights are not DRL's - daytime running lamps, which on a 12volt system bear 21 watt bulbs. Complianced front fog lamps by comparision on a 12volt system bear 55watts as a maximum.

TELL-TALE: A pilot lamp/telltale is option with front fogs, colour is usually green. Rear fog carries a mandatory yellow or amber telltale.


ISO primary auxilliary lamp symbols you see in vehicles.
1. = Front Fog. 2. = Rear Fog. 3. = Driving Lamp

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Here we go again......

Foobar, you might get more answers from a search as this topic turns into an arguement.

They are illegal unless in poor weather or owner of a Commodore and think you are Mark Scaife.

I certainly have no interest in arguing about the topic, would just like to know the facts. If anyone has been booked for having them on, can you please mention it and if you got out of it etc?

I leave mine on as they really do illuminate a nice wide area of the road, they shouldn't impeded oncoming drivers as I've never had issue with anyone driving towards me with them on. However, if there's a chance I might get pinged for it on a slow booking day, I will turn them off.

[kenz]

Originally Posted by Foobar

I leave mine on as they really do illuminate a nice wide area of the road, they shouldn't impeded oncoming drivers as I've never had issue with anyone driving towards me with them on.

Thats the comments that will start the arguement whether you are wanting one or not unfortunately

[Quicksand]

183. Using fog lights

(1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with a front or rear fog light shall not operate the front or the rear fog light unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility.
Points: 1 Modified penalty: 2 PU (1 PU = $50.00)

79. Daytime running lights

(1) A pair of daytime running lights may be fitted to a motor
vehicle.

(2) A pair of daytime running lights fitted to a vehicle with 4 or more wheels must be fitted with the centre of each light -
(a) at least 600 mm from the centre of the other light; and
(b) not over 510 mm from the nearer side of the vehicle.

(3) However, a pair of daytime running lights fitted to a motor vehicle under 1300 mm wide may be
fitted with the centre of each light not under 400 mm from the centre of the other light.

(4) When on, a daytime running light must -
(a) show a white or yellow light visible from the front of the vehicle; and
(b) not use over 25 watts power.

(5) Daytime running lights must be wired so they are off when a headlight, except
a headlight being used as a flashing signal, is on.

(6) For subrule (3), the width of a vehicle is measured disregarding any anti-skid device mounted on wheels,
central tyre inflation systems, lights, mirrors, reflectors, signalling devices and tyre pressure gauges.

So in a single line

Fog lights - used on there own when in Fog as headlights are no good
Daytime running lights - come on with the ignition but go off when headlights are illuminated
Headlights - Any time
Spotlights - Independent switch and can only be activated when high beam is activated.

One of our club members was booked last September for this, $100 and 1 point

[ea90gl]

my mate got pulled over and a given a warning with his 95 320 BMW while driving with the spotlights on at night, he was told they are illegal to have on unless driving in very poor conditions

[aye you]

i've got driving lights in mine, aimmed down slightly, and use them whenever my headlights are on. haven't had a problem, neither have my mates, but then again, we live in Darwin which is slightly behind the times

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Foobar

I certainly have no interest in arguing about the topic, would just like to know the facts. If anyone has been booked for having them on, can you please mention it and if you got out of it etc?

I leave mine on as they really do illuminate a nice wide area of the road, they shouldn't impeded oncoming drivers as I've never had issue with anyone driving towards me with them on. However, if there's a chance I might get pinged for it on a slow booking day, I will turn them off.

Depending on circumstances, they can adversely effect vision of oncoming traffic. Example: Youre coming over a crest, Im coming up on the crest the other way, Im below your bumper, the driving lights are right in my eyes. There are times when they dont bother me at all, and other times where clearly they are dangerous for oncoming traffic, and obviously you due to them being unable to see clearly.

I guess Im saying it depends on circumstances on whether they are a danger to oncoming traffic. Some vehicle driving lights seem to be designed badly so the effects are more common, while others seem to be designed well and dont produce the same problem as much.


The law is clear, they are ILLEGAL to use unless weather conditions are poor.

[|||]

i just turn mine on when the car is freshly washed and i want to impress people. never been pulled over

[Grum]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

It's illegal to use them unless in adverse driving conditions.

And where is the definition of adverse driving conditions?

[Booka]

I got pulled over for mine we i was driving on a rural rd, goin to see my mate, and the copper said dont drive with them on if im in a suburban st or near a bult up area. (my excuse was my headlights are absolutly shocking and i need these to see if there are any animals on the sides of the road)

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Grum

And where is the definition of adverse driving conditions?

See this post by KeepLeft: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...55&postcount=1

Page 233 of the PDF. (Page 209 of the document)

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by aye you

i've got driving lights in mine, aimmed down slightly, and use them whenever my headlights are on. haven't had a problem, neither have my mates, but then again, we live in Darwin which is slightly behind the times

Looking at your mods aside (ref Brumby bar), IF the 'lights' you refer were factory Std and are located in the lower apron, then chances are they will be complianced front fogs. See my post above to see the Code marked on the lens that you look for to determine the lamps exact design function, and note any ISO switch symbol.

Sgt Doofus highlighted a link to ARR's in which existing ARR-217 'rear fog lamps', has been updated to include the same prohibition-of-use. Most states will have this contracted mid-late 2008 in full.

Grum wrote:-

And where is the definition of adverse driving conditions?

The actual wording of the new updated ARR 217 is; "under hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility".

Each state driver handbook now imparts much the same advice.


Tristo 4.0 wrote:

I got pulled over for mine I was driving on a rural rd, goin to see my mate, and the copper said dont drive with them on if im in a suburban st or near a built-up area. (my excuse was my headlights are absolutly shocking and i need these to see if there are any animals on the sides of the road)

If your low beams are 'that' bad - I suggest replacing the standard bulbs with say "Plus 30 or Plus 50" variants, these are ADR legal and genuinely do help.

Remember this; a front fog lamp bears a forward range typically 10 - 35 metres to a maximum of around 50. Its design is such that it also has a hand-fan shaped beam pattern, designed to show up the close-in edges of the roadway better than even low beam is able to achieve, when under seriously reduced visibility conditions.

Reliance on front fog lamps to get you out of trouble in clear conditions at night in misguided. Rem this basic - at 100km/h your moving at 28 metres per second, that gives you precious little time to react to wildlife or insane MP's swaggering by the roadway, by the time you've spot Skippy or wombat, or MP off to the left or right and closing, - you've hit it.

Too much foreground illumination reduces your eyes ability to see potential trouble residing much further out.

By comparison, standard modern halogen lamps on high-beam will see 170 - 220metres. Add a set of driving lamps and you can range out to say 300-500m plus!

Front fogs are a luxury item and some compliant units perform better than others, but,- they are specifically designed for a purpose; if visibility is attrocious - they really help you see ahead if you switch off low-beam. That lighting action cuts glare and allows your front indicators to be seen more clearly by lead and approaching traffic. Their design purpose is only for use in rain, heavy fog, bushfire smoke, duststorms, and are particularly excellent when driving in falling snow, the worse the visibility the better these things are for you.

The primary 'lighting' defence against low visibility crash occurence however remains the rear fog lamp, which will be mandated on new market vehicles 'one day'.

[Booka]

Yeah, I resolved this problm today by buying a set "XENON BLUE performance halogen globe

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by tristo 4.0

Yeah, I resolved this problm today by buying a set "XENON BLUE performance halogen globe

Narva's (et al) marketed "Arctic Blue" are ADR compliant. Some are not, rem replacement bulbs, particularly for a 12 volt system low-beam must not exceed standard wattage.

Compliant headlight halogen bulbs will bear E markings on the steel body. Some bulbs do not comply, and so quality in performance is not guaranteed.

What you'll notice with say the Narva 'blue' bulb is a 'whiter-white', kinda ice white, but the beam range stays the same, its just more defined at the edges, the extra white improves your vision of linemarkings, road markers, reflectors and alcohol fulled members of parliament who might be asleep in the middle of say a rural road somewhere.

Approaching traffic see them generally as a whiter-light, than the say of the 'creamy/duller' standard halogen type. This does not equate necessarily with undue or out of compliance - glare!

* Never raise the wattage of a front fog lamp in particular, you need less glare not more with these. "All Weather" variety bulbs are recommended for these, they have a slight yellow 'tinge'.

* Increasing a headlights wattage can technically put the headlamp out of compliance, since lamp compliance is only tested at regulated standard wattages for each lamp function.

* With halogen lamps, you can legally use the Plus 30, Plus 50 etc variants. Good brands are Phillips/Osram/Narva/Hella. Do take a look at those some day.

[Booka]

* E Marked and legal for road use [E1]
Say's that on the packet so i guess they would be ok, and they are the same wattage as my stock globes.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by |||

i just turn mine on when i want to impress people

lemme guess, you drive a commodore?

[ovl351]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

lemme guess, you drive a commodore?

LOL

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by |||

i just turn mine on when the car is freshly washed and i want to impress people. never been pulled over

:

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by NostalgEA

:

I think he was being sarcastic. Well I hope so anyway :

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I think he was being sarcastic. Well I hope so anyway :

Going by his other posts today, i think he is serious. And that is a big worry.

[exrtnz]

It should be up to the drivers choice whether they have there foglights on or not . I use mine whenever I feel like it had no problems. Usually just at night or dusk.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by exrtnz

It should be up to the drivers choice whether they have there foglights on or not . I use mine whenever I feel like it had no problems. Usually just at night or dusk.

Yeah thats the attitude. It should be up to me if I dip my Rallye 2000 spotlights too.

[exrtnz]

If youve got em you might as well use them. But I never use them during the daylight hrs.

[Deadman]

I see police cars driving around with them on up here all the time.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Deadman

I see police cars driving around with them on up here all the time.

Doesn't make it right. Happens because even employees of the QLD police are sometimes 'ignorant' on the subject matter. This will change for QLD once they gazaette the new ARR's.

The topic is covered. If you want to use your fog lamps day or night in clear weather, do so, eventually you'll get picked up, and often repeatedly flashed by other traffic for doing so.

Much here to do with 'attitude', all ties in the ignorance of the front fog light topic, (bad driver training/not reading driver handbook) and how they are arrogantly used as a result of that, and that is where the attitude is, goes in a loop, but then you get the dopes who know they shouldn't, but do.

Small schlong syndrome mebbe.

[xr8 utey]

Originally Posted by |||

i just turn mine on when the car is freshly washed and i want to impress people. never been pulled over

lights on! nobody home

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Yeah thats the attitude. It should be up to me if I dip my Rallye 2000 spotlights too.

Because they are the same as 55w foglamps :