Mondeo TDCi vs XR5

[scottyd6]

Me and my wife are going through the painstaking yet exciting process of buying a new car. So many mid size car options that we are looking at! We were introduced to the Mondeo's a few weeks ago and both instantly fell in love with them. What a clean and good looking machine. We're basically sold on the car, unfortunately, my wife liked the TDCi while I fancied the added gadgets in the XR5.

I have a couple of queries on the XR5 that I would like clarification on before potentially selecting the XR5 as my choice (sorry, our choice). These are:

--> Average fuel consumption - it would be nice to find out some actual usage figures from those who drive one. TDCi seems around the 7.5 to 8 mark (depending on type of driving), just want to know how the XR5 compares to this.

--> Ride/handling with the sports suspenison - I'm finding it near impossible to get a test drive in an XR5 (fair enough) but what is the city and country ride like with the lowered suspension kit? The TDCi was great, and I can only assume the XR5 will feel a bit stiffer.

I'm not the most knowledgable guys on cars, so if anyone has any further comments on the two, please feel free to write (such as what is the best colour??!!).

[ajay1940]

Read: http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/ford/mondeo/1822/2

This, and many other reviews conclude that real world, on the road, comparisons show little performance advantage to the XR5. The torquey diesel motor in the TDCI will keep the XR5 in sight on all except gun barrel straight roads.

[phoonfan]

if your in melbourne scotty,
pm me and i'll give you an XR5 for the day!

Cheers!

[Turbodiesel]

If I were you I'd keep my wife happy and go for the TDCi

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by Turbodiesel

If I were you I'd keep my wife happy and go for the TDCi

Best advice you could ever offer. But IMO i would go for the TDCI... no questions asked.

[zetec]

I spent a weekend in the XR5 Turbo.

The fuel averaged around 7.6l/100km between Syd and Melb on highway. In the city it was more around mid 9's with mixed highways and city driving.

Suspension was excellent, maybe 5% too firm but that's not a criticism, I'm deliberately trying to be harsh as there's not much to really criticise it about!

Honestly a TDCi will be cheaper to run and easier to drive, with leather it's almost the same car. The XR5 however pulls looks like a naked supermodel in the middle of Times Sqaure and gives just that little bit more performance. If it's super critical to be economical, go TDCi. The XR5 is only slightly thirstier and by god it's a honey of a car.

As for keeping your wife happy, whichever side she sits on she has heated seats in the XR5 Turbo and they are worth every cent!

[monkeyboy666]

I don't have the wife problem but that made it worse - it was just MY decision between the TDCi and the XR5, so I'd have no one to blame if I got it wrong...

My budget meant that it was a choice between an optioned up TDCi (leather and sunroof) VS stock XR5 -the price was pretty well the same. The dealer I went to back in November didn't have an XR5 so I just drove the TDCi hatch and ordered one on the spot. While waiting for it to arrive ( the dealers promise of "it'll be here in 3 weeks!" before I signed the contract blew out to 2 months..) I passed another Ford dealer and saw the XR5. Bad move - Wow what a car. I worried so much that I'd made the wrong choice. I didn't want to drive it and depress myself further.

But once I got my car all that doubt ended. Sure theres a bit of a lag when you first hit the accelerator but once you get it moving its way quicker and more responsive than my Magna was ( yeah I know that doesn't sound very impressive but it was a 3.5litre V6)

The main selling point is the economy. In city driving conditions where my Magna was getting 9.5l/100km the Mondeo gets high 6's. And in highway driving where it was getting mid 8's, the Mondeo gets high 5 to low 6's. Even the added cost of diesel vs unleaded (though doesn't the XR5 need premium? - that eats into much of that difference) doesn't erode the savings I'm making in fuel costs.

Plus, the leather option gets the heated seats!

I guess this doesn't make it much clearer, but as someone who originally wanted the XR5, I have absolutely no regrets at getting the diesel, and would make the same choice again if I could turn back time..

[Kryton]

id be going the TDCi personally.

[gate13]

fellas.

i had a major accident last week in my well loved el fairmont ghia iv had since i was 18.

im very hesitant in going for a small car as the daily driving habbits of the odd sideways and fun with the lsd in the wet will be very missed.

but iv been looking into the XR5 and i have to say i have fallin in love with it. i have read up on some of the mods available and i really am falling in love with it.

from what i have read if your looking for abit more performance and power the xr5 is the way to go but for a more economical car the tdci is the best option

[GRT046]

My two cents worth.

After driving the TDCi I was hooked and ordered one immediately complete with leather, sunroof and bluetooth and have not been dissapointed in any way. Coming from a Fairmont 6 I expected to notice a bit less urge but must say that I have been pleasantly surprised for other than standing start acceleration all normal driving requirements are similar with handling better.

I can't match Monkeyboy's exceptional economy figures with mine returning 7.41 l/100km 40/60% town/country freeway and 8.01 l/100km with 80/20 town/freeway driving. These were based on actual fuel use recorded at fills and not based on onboard computer readouts. (both after 800 km).

While the TX5 looks the goods it was not on my list as I wanted the 6 speed auto. As I haven't driven the TX5 I am unable to compare the onroad performance but the TDCi with the leather, sunroof and bluetooth is a pretty exceptional package.

[Superoo]

I haven't driven the XR5 but do agree with other posters re the performance of the TDCi. Yes, standing starts are a little sluggish but once on the move, I am more than satisfied (and my other car is an XR6T). I drive in quite heavy traffic and I'm averaging around 8l/100km but as a comparison, my XR6 would use around 15l/100km in the same conditions. After the last fill, I had a bit of a freeway run (around 10 kms) and the fuel consumption was showing 5.4 l/100km with over 1000km DTE.

The XR5 turbo is a great looker and the premium convers display is probably the one thing I wish I had in the diesel (really finishes off the interior nicely). If economy is not a high priority, then the XR5 might be the go. Either way, I doubt you will be disappointed.

[Dusty1]

I have the TDCi, the figures for the past few fill ups and litres used per 100 KM are below (thanks to GRT046 for the excellent fuel log ).

16/1/08 780.9 kms 7.1 l/100 (city & highway)
24/1/08 634.5 kms, 8.4 l/100 (city & highway)
28/1/08 830.2 kms 6.5 l/100 (mainly highway)
9/2/08 570.4 lms 10.2 l/100 (mainly city)


The others are a mix of country and city, but the 9/2/08 was primarily city driving. Still not too bad, and better than I used to get in my BA MKI Futura. I was expecting between 8 - 9 in the city and 7 - 8 on the highway. I'm around those figures.

I have the a/c on all the time and the sunroof on tilt.

[Steffo]

That's actually pretty thirsty for a Diesel. 10.2 city !?!?!?

[GRT046]

Originally Posted by Steffo

That's actually pretty thirsty for a Diesel. 10.2 city !?!?!?

While the figure of 10.2 l/100k over 570km of city driving may sound a bit high the overall figure over 2816km of a mix of city/country driving of 7.84 l/100k is not dissimilar to what I have experienced in real world conditions of city/freeway country driving. My figure of 7.7 l/100k over 1600 km of city 60% / freeway country 40% approx with no attempt to conserve fuel is not too far away from the published 7.3

I am sure that with a bit of effort we could bring it down to that figure particularly after the motor has freed up a bit more. The readout after 25km of average 82 km/hr freeway driving after reset showed 5.7 l/100k and 1295 km until empty.

[bearass]

We are currently returning 10.1 litres per hundred on our XR5 over 1300kms all in town driving - no trips away. I am pretty impressed with this but after trading in our Territory Turbo for this car any fuel consumption figure under 14.7 litres per hundred looks good to me.

I drove the TDCi before buying the XR5 and it was a very impressive car - not what i was expecting the diesel to be - very smooth/quiet, power was impressive and very refined. But after having an XR8 and T Turbo before-hand the XR5 was the choice for me.

Which one to get, I don't know toss a coin and go from there...............I doubt you will be dissappointed either way.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by GRT046

While the figure of 10.2 l/100k over 570km of city driving may sound a bit high the overall figure over 2816km of a mix of city/country driving of 7.84 l/100k is not dissimilar to what I have experienced in real world conditions of city/freeway country driving. My figure of 7.7 l/100k over 1600 km of city 60% / freeway country 40% approx with no attempt to conserve fuel is not too far away from the published 7.3

I am sure that with a bit of effort we could bring it down to that figure particularly after the motor has freed up a bit more. The readout after 25km of average 82 km/hr freeway driving after reset showed 5.7 l/100k and 1295 km until empty.

That 7.84 figure puts it around even with my 124kW 200Nm petrol 2.0 litre Clio Sport. And I've done 5.2/100 on the highway in it, average Sydney - Canberra and back again consumption, by the way.

Compared to cars like the 2.0 TDI Passat, or even things like my Clio... those are very thirsty diesels... :

[zetec]

Originally Posted by Steffo

That 7.84 figure puts it around even with my 124kW 200Nm petrol 2.0 litre Clio Sport. And I've done 5.2/100 on the highway in it, average Sydney - Canberra and back again consumption, by the way.

Compared to cars like the 2.0 TDI Passat, or even things like my Clio... those are very thirsty diesels... :

Small problem Steffo. A Mondeo will fit a 2.0 litre Clio Sport in its boot, plus 5 adults. The Clio will fit a driver, his girlfriend and 2 terriers in the back, with room for a pair of shoes in the boot. It doesn't even have a spare tyre!

A Mondeo can also tow 1,600kg. That's 1 and a half Clios.

Considering the Mondeo uses the same as a Clio, I reckon that's one in favour of the Mondeo. I'd say it's extremely economical.

Passats are $42,490 vs $37,990 for Mondeo TDCi. That's a saving of $4,500.
And given the Passat averages 6.6l/100km vs 7.3L/100km for the TDCi, at $1.50 per litre for Diesel it would take 428,571km to recoup the difference. So ultimately (not taking into account resale value) the Mondeo still stacks up pretty well.

I'm not knocking the Clio at all, I've driven a Cup 182 and by god it's good. But don't compare it to a Diesel Mondeo.

When you compare the Mondeo to the Passat it also looks pretty good.

[monkeyboy666]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Compared to cars like the 2.0 TDI Passat, or even things like my Clio... those are very thirsty diesels... :

Hey, fair go - in fairness, I don't think figures taken in an Australian summer with aircon on full or windows and sunroof (where fitted) open wide should be taken as the standard that the Mondeo TDCi can achieve. Especially given that these are all brand new not yet run in cars. I've checked out some Passat forums, similar to this one where actual drivers post their figures and found this thread of a monthly fuel consumption comp that they have:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=203228

That highest figure is impressive, thats about 4.1l/100km but my posting of 5.8l/100km or 40.5mpg is still competitive, especially since I wasn't driving with the intention of posting my figure in a fuel consumption competition. Also, all those cars in the table that get better economy are 5 speed manuals - what are their autos getting??

So 'very thirsty' might be a little bit unfair I reckon...

[scottyd6]

Thank you to all for you input to my original questions. Some good information out there which I have noted.

After considering all these factors, we have decided to go with the XR5. One is coming through our dealer in a couple of weeks which will give us a chance to go for a spin in the open road. I could write a fairly long story as to why the 5 but in the end good looks, extra gadgets and the "why not" factor tipped us in this direction. I hope others in my situation can benefit from everyones opinion. In the end, the Mondeo's are beautiful cars to drive, and it's hard for any minor flaws to overshadow the impressive driving nature of these cars. Will let you all know how the car goes when we get it!

BTW, I have heard that Ford have changed the Mondeo supply split for the Australian market. The TDCi and XR5 seem to be selling quite well (especially the TDCi) while the 2.3L sales (both LX and ZETEC) are quite low. Another factor in the popularity and performance of these higher costing cars.

[TheColonel]

Nice choice Scotty, what colour is the next question? I've driven both the tdci and i own the xr5, both great cars, the extra technology and the fact the xr5 was a manual are what sold me on the xr5...

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by zetec

Small problem Steffo. A Mondeo will fit a 2.0 litre Clio Sport in its boot, plus 5 adults. The Clio will fit a driver, his girlfriend and 2 terriers in the back, with room for a pair of shoes in the boot. It doesn't even have a spare tyre!

A Mondeo can also tow 1,600kg. That's 1 and a half Clios.

Considering the Mondeo uses the same as a Clio, I reckon that's one in favour of the Mondeo. I'd say it's extremely economical.

Passats are $42,490 vs $37,990 for Mondeo TDCi. That's a saving of $4,500.
And given the Passat averages 6.6l/100km vs 7.3L/100km for the TDCi, at $1.50 per litre for Diesel it would take 428,571km to recoup the difference. So ultimately (not taking into account resale value) the Mondeo still stacks up pretty well.

I'm not knocking the Clio at all, I've driven a Cup 182 and by god it's good. But don't compare it to a Diesel Mondeo.

When you compare the Mondeo to the Passat it also looks pretty good.

Mine's a Clio 172, therefore it has a spare tyre (full size, alloy)... the 182's don't because of the dual exhausts coming out the centre of the rear bumper that go through what was the spare wheel well on the 172.

Lets see... I've had in my car... myself (6'2"), and three of my mate's (6'0", 6'4" and 5'10") without much issue and you can fit quite a bit more then a pair of shoes in the boot! Believe it or not I don't keep the seat fully rearward, it can go another three or four clicks back.

Most posts on here seem to tell me that Ford's claims for the TDCi Focus and Mondeo are optimistic. On the other hand, I know for fact that the VW claims for the 2.0 TDI Passat are conservative. It will happily average 5.7 - 6.0L/100km without problems. Also are you talking about the 103kW 320Nm or 125kW 350Nm variant?

$42,490 vs $37,990.

Done a bit of looking around and the most common average combined consumption result I can find for the 2.0 TDCi Mondeo is 48mpg. Which is 4.9litres/100km.

For the Passat I managed to find a 56mpg combined average consensus. That's 4.2litres/100km.

I do know of Passats doing less then 5L/100km, does anyone have a TDCi Mondeo doing that?

Either way, the Passat will work out cheaper in the long run. Its $4500 more to buy but it uses less fuel and won't cop as bad as resale hit as the Mondeo undoubtedly will.

Interesting how myself being shocked that somebody got 10.1L/100km from their TDCi in traffic compared to my Clio's worst of 9.5 has turned into a Passat 2.0 TDI vs Mondeo TDCi argument...

**BTW** Top choice with the car scotty!

[GRT046]

Originally Posted by scottyd6

BTW, I have heard that Ford have changed the Mondeo supply split for the Australian market. The TDCi and XR5 seem to be selling quite well (especially the TDCi) while the 2.3L sales (both LX and ZETEC) are quite low.

I am interested to know what the actual sales split is .... does anyone know?

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by scottyd6

After considering all these factors, we have decided to go with the XR5. One is coming through our dealer in a couple of weeks which will give us a chance to go for a spin in the open road. I could write a fairly long story as to why the 5 but in the end good looks, extra gadgets and the "why not" factor tipped us in this direction. I hope others in my situation can benefit from everyones opinion. In the end, the Mondeo's are beautiful cars to drive, and it's hard for any minor flaws to overshadow the impressive driving nature of these cars. Will let you all know how the car goes when we get it!

BTW, I have heard that Ford have changed the Mondeo supply split for the Australian market. The TDCi and XR5 seem to be selling quite well (especially the TDCi) while the 2.3L sales (both LX and ZETEC) are quite low. Another factor in the popularity and performance of these higher costing cars.

This is not surprising. Wheels said that the split was:
".....about half is ascribed to the Zetec model; the base LX and the TDCi turbo-diesel iterations anticipate 20 percent each, while 10 percent or so is left to the XR5."

I questioned this number with the guy from ford at the preview test drive and he confirmed it. I think Ford based this on what the market was doing in terms of mazda 6 and euro buyers - where petrol sales obviously dominate due to the lack of diesel availability for honda and low take up by mazda buyers.

In my opinion this is the third or so time i have seen ford bring in the wrong product mix at the start of a model. They had far too many escape base 4s when the update launched too, and while it aint a very good seller, being one of few cars in the segment with a V6 (and decent off road capabilities) they should of had more sixes around. There are several 2.3 zetec mondeos at dealerships but not many diesels - they are all sold!

I know supply is an issue with the XR5 but part of the reason i think ford hasn't hit their (optimistic) 500 per month target has been not enough diesels in the early shipments. With advertising now more common with the best cars award for the diesel part of it they should be able to crack 400 a month with the right supply. Besides, a quick drive of a 2.3 zetec versus TDCI has probably convinced people to go for the latter. No offence to any current or future zetec owners, but if you can find the money, the TDCi is the way to go IMO.

[Turbodiesel]

Sorry but there is absolutely no way a heavy Passat with a 2.0 TDI would get anywhere near 4.2l/100km.

I tried an economy run on my way to work and back today to see what I could get in my Focus and I achieved 4.6, best result so far it usually hangs around 4.8. That's on a mostly motorway trip.

If you do a lot of travelling and fuel economy is an issue, go the TDCi. If you don't and it isn't then go for the XR5, after all it's not like you'll buy a sports model to drive it economically...

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Turbodiesel

Sorry but there is absolutely no way a heavy Passat with a 2.0 TDI would get anywhere near 4.2l/100km.

I tried an economy run on my way to work and back today to see what I could get in my Focus and I achieved 4.6, best result so far it usually hangs around 4.8. That's on a mostly motorway trip.

If you do a lot of travelling and fuel economy is an issue, go the TDCi. If you don't and it isn't then go for the XR5, after all it's not like you'll buy a sports model to drive it economically...

Well after looking around at what people in Europe get and actually asking people from over there I know, 48mpg Mondeo TDCi and 56mpg Passat 2.0 TDI.

You convert it to L/100km and tell me what it is.

Golf 2.0 TDI is like 60 mpg, and similar for Focus 2.0 TDCi.

You don't want to know the kind of mpg they're getting from small crap like the Diesel Lupo's and things...

[HenryV8]

I am going through this decision making process at the moment.

The diesel Passat is an awesome car. If the price difference was only $4,500 over the Mondeo I would probably save the extra money and buy it.

However, I am probably going to buy a Mazda 6 Diesel. They are, unfortunately, only available in manual. But with run out deals on the outgoing model meaning that the wagon can be had for around $35,000, and the hatch for $38,000 (with leather), they are pretty good value for money. They are only 105KW but 360nm.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by HenryV8

I am going through this decision making process at the moment.

The diesel Passat is an awesome car. If the price difference was only $4,500 over the Mondeo I would probably save the extra money and buy it.

However, I am probably going to buy a Mazda 6 Diesel. They are, unfortunately, only available in manual. But with run out deals on the outgoing model meaning that the wagon can be had for around $35,000, and the hatch for $38,000 (with leather), they are pretty good value for money. They are only 105KW but 360nm.

The Mazda 6 MZR-CD is a beautiful car to drive! Definitley good choice.

[monkeyboy666]

Apart from Ford getting the zetec/diesel split wrong, I've been wondering what they estimated the sedan vs hatch ratio to be. Does anyone here have the sedan?

The local Ford dealer has had a sedan (in Tonic, which looks really nice..) sitting ignored in its yard since early November, while people wanting hatches are waiting for boats from Belgium.... (plus, its a petrol which apparently makes it kind of doubly unloved!)

[Turbodiesel]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Well after looking around at what people in Europe get and actually asking people from over there I know, 48mpg Mondeo TDCi and 56mpg Passat 2.0 TDI.

You convert it to L/100km and tell me what it is.

Golf 2.0 TDI is like 60 mpg, and similar for Focus 2.0 TDCi.

You don't want to know the kind of mpg they're getting from small crap like the Diesel Lupo's and things...

The Golf 2.0 TDI Manual is rated at 5.7l/100km (41mpg) combined and the Passat 2.0 TDI DSG is rated at 6.6l/100km (35.6mpg) according to Volkswagen.com.au.

They are a little thirstier than Ford's TDCi engines because they are slightly more powerful, however they don't have the "Overboost" feature.

[zetec]

Originally Posted by HenryV8

I am going through this decision making process at the moment.

The diesel Passat is an awesome car. If the price difference was only $4,500 over the Mondeo I would probably save the extra money and buy it.

However, I am probably going to buy a Mazda 6 Diesel. They are, unfortunately, only available in manual. But with run out deals on the outgoing model meaning that the wagon can be had for around $35,000, and the hatch for $38,000 (with leather), they are pretty good value for money. They are only 105KW but 360nm.

Remember come resale time that it doesn't have Stability Control which whilst becoming standard on current models will make it that much harder to sell a non-equipped model in future years.

Beautiful cars though, just one thing to consider.