Supercharged LS9 - 620hp

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Steffo

S2000 hasn't got 184kW? Its got 176kW. Which is 236hp. Which is 118hp/litre. The engine that currently holds the record for highest HP/litre from a production road car engine is the SR16VE N1 from the N15 Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1. 1.6litres, 147kW (197hp). That's 123.12hp/litre.

The Jap spec S2000 matches (but doesn't surpass) the N1's outputs. The Jap spec S2000 (higher compression ratio) is quoted as 250PS on their website. 250PS = 247hp (184 kw). 247hp/2.0 litres = 123.5 hp/litre. Bang on the Nissans figures when using this method of comparison. Incidentally N1 Pulsar's have been approved for 2nd hand import to Aus.

How come now one is talking BMEP for comparing outputs and knockiing the high revving engines back in to shape with the pushrods?

Originally Posted by CAT600

Steffo's love-Mseries-child cars

Now that is 6 words that I thought I'd never see. Especially an E60 M5!!

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

How come now one is talking BMEP for comparing outputs and knockiing the high revving engines back in to shape with the pushrods?

I wanted to compare apples with apples. With BMEP, N/A vs F.I. = no comparison.

If we did compare BMEP with the LS7 however, certain people would just get onto the subject of BSFC, and then the Euro's will always win in that department.

But I don't buy fast cars to save fuel, I buy them to go fast.

Daniel

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Car to explain?

Is not 'M' GBMh good at tuning? now what engine was in the maclaren F1...

As for vette's, you just silly : Vette's are sexy, sports cars!

I think the E36/46 M3s and anything with that 3.2 engine sounds like crap. I think the E60 M5/E63 M6 sound like crap. And I think they're overrated. Against their direct competitors, they're not that fast or not that great. The E46 M3, which was supposed to be some God car, got spanked when Mercedes and Audi decided to give a stuff about the market. Along came the S4 and beat it, the RS4 set the goal-posts so far the new M3 barely matches them.

But this is a totally different subject.

As for 'vettes, they're cheap American plastic sports cars that are about as sophisticated as a 1960s Ferrari or Porsche. Yep, the Z06 is fast, but every single thing I've read about it says that off the track its a dog, bad gearshift, bad ride, bad this, bad that. Plus the way Yanks rave on about them being God's gift to the sports/supercar world is, well, annoying...

Originally Posted by CAT600

And in turn, I too. But I have enormous respect for the LS9.

1) S2000 is 184kw in its homeland, just as I have quoted all other cars from theirs.

2) Steffo, dont counter-quote C5/C6/Z06, were talking about the ZR-1 and in specific, it's engine. I dont rate C5/C6. (and the LS7 from Z06 does not impress me as much as LS9)

3) M5 weighs 1755kg. Ok, I'll correct the kg/kw to 4.7

4) E46 M3's engine was as heavy as the new V8, but only 252kw, thats worse again.

What is your point to all this? Just admit that the LS9 is awesome in its specific hp/torque production, and move on.

But please don't jibber-jabber about your uncles, sisters, cousins, former roommate's 1902 Porsche "Superleggeria" Twin Turbo that has nothing to do with this thread.

Thanks

Daniel

Why are you talking about how much the engine on its own weighs? That in itself won't make or break the performance of a vehicle, as many cars prove with heavier engines and less power then the LSx GM cars that still equal or beat them.

There's nothing awesome about the LS9. If every company took the GM route we'd still be in 1950. Hmm our 40+ year old V8 is heavy. Lets make it out of aluminium. Hmm we're stuck at 405hp with our massive 5.7litre V8 engine (C5 Z06). Lets make it 7.0litres to get 100hp more! Hmm should we use our 7.0 to make 600+ horse for our new halo car? Nah, lets make the 6.0 into a 6.2 and then Supercharge it.

In a few years they'll have a 12.5 litre twin turbo & supercharged V8 to make 650hp.

Much more impressive are engines like that of a Porsche Carrera GT (5.7litre V10, 603hp), Ferrari Enzo (6.0litre V12, 650hp), Ferrari F430 (4.3litre V8, 482hp), Lamborghini Gallardo (5.0litre V10, 513hp), BMW E92 M3 (4.0litre V8, 414hp) etc.

And you don't just have to play the hp/litre card. There's the AMG 6208cc 32-valve DOHC V8 from the new 63-range AMG cars. 378kW (507hp) @ 6800rpm, 630Nm (465ftlbs) @ 5200rpm. But with 500Nm (369ftlbs) @ 2000rpm and 530Nm (391ftlbs) @ 3000rpm... similar power to an LS7, but absolutley kicks it to pieces as far as bottom end and thick, strong torque curves go.

There's no point salivating over the GenIV LS9 making it here either. HSV do not have the balls to put a 463kW 806Nm 6.2litre Supercharged V8 into anything. And nor would FPV have the grapefruit size required to do the same with a competing Ford engine into their products.

Best we can hope for is a new LS3 (324kW 575Nm). And from FPV? They won't put a blown motor in, too scared of doing that with 8-cylinders for some reason, so they'll be soldiering on with the N/A 5.4 until Ford USA makes a better N/A motor. Sad to say but the LS9 and such motors are as relevant to our cars as the price of fish in China. :(

[ea90gl]

Much more impressive are engines like that of a Porsche Carrera GT (5.7litre V10, 603hp), Ferrari Enzo (6.0litre V12, 650hp), Ferrari F430 (4.3litre V8, 482hp), Lamborghini Gallardo (5.0litre V10, 513hp), BMW E92 M3 (4.0litre V8, 414hp) etc.

I actually agree in that the Ls9 isnt a motor to blow your wad over, at the same time I am not saying it is crap just the motors mentioned above with the smaller cpapcities and big HP are the ones that stand out

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I think the E36/46 M3s and anything with that 3.2 engine sounds like crap. I think the E60 M5/E63 M6 sound like crap. And I think they're overrated. Against their direct competitors, they're not that fast or not that great. The E46 M3, which was supposed to be some God car, got spanked when Mercedes and Audi decided to give a stuff about the market. Along came the S4 and beat it, the RS4 set the goal-posts so far the new M3 barely matches them.

But this is a totally different subject.

As for 'vettes, they're cheap American plastic sports cars that are about as as a sophisticated 1960s Ferrari or Porsche. Yep, the Z06 is fast, but every single thing I've read about it says that off the track its a dog, bad gearshift, bad ride, bad this, bad that. Plus the way Yanks rave on about them being God's gift to the sports/supercar world is, well, annoying...

Still, if you got offered a new V8 M3, you'ld take it. I would, although i just wish i had a M3 CSL.

Yes the Vette has a fiberglass body and a pushrod, but just like a good looking girl, i wouldn't kick it out of bed if it farted.

The best thing about the corvette it keeps the 60's muscle car dream alive, who cares about multi cams, sophisticaion and what not, its true to what it is. A Porshe or Ferrari are in a different leauge IMO.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Still, if you got offered a new V8 M3, you'ld take it. I would, although i just wish i had a M3 CSL.

Yes the Vette has a fiberglass body and a pushrod, but just like a good looking girl, i wouldn't kick it out of bed if it farted.

The best thing about the corvette it keeps the 60's muscle car dream alive, who cares about multi cams, sophisticaion and what not, its true to what it is. A Porshe or Ferrari are in a different leauge IMO.

You're right, I'd definitley take the new M3. Its my favourite M3 ever. They've gotten rid of the crap sounding 3.2 I6 and put in a sweet sounding 4.0 V8 with a massive powerband... 309kW (414hp) @ 8300rpm, 400Nm (295ftlbs) @ 3900rpm and it carries that torque all the way up, and doesn't let up until its 8400rpm cut-out. Now that's an engine!

As for the Corvette, they're not trying to be 60s drag warriors anymore. They're trying to compete with Porsche. Chevrolet was openly targeting the old 911 GT3 RS (996, 3.6L 280kW) as a performance benchmark with the Z06. When they were testing at the Nurburgring-Nordschleife their aim was to beat its time of 7:43. So when they finally (after mass tweaking) pulled off a 7:42.9, they packed up and went home. Except don't expect to do that time with a customer-spec car...

With the ZR-1, they've actually been talking about matching the Porsche Carrera GT with it. This is where I think they will fall short. The ZR-1 is a beefed up Z06, the Carrera GT is in a different league, its not just a 911 Carrera on steroids like the GT3 is.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Steffo

As for the Corvette, they're not trying to be 60s drag warriors anymore. They're trying to compete with Porsche. Chevrolet was openly targeting the old 911 GT3 RS (996, 3.6L 280kW) as a performance benchmark with the Z06. When they were testing at the Nurburgring-Nordschleife their aim was to beat its time of 7:43. So when they finally (after mass tweaking) pulled off a 7:42.9, they packed up and went home. Except don't expect to do that time with a customer-spec car...

The Z06's time is more amazing because of two things.

1. At no point in the Z06's development was it EVER tested at the Nurburgring, the porsche however was born at the track, it must have run 100's times at the ring in it's development. Not to mention all the data that porsche had from other 911 models.

2. When the car was finished they stuck it in a container and shipped it over and that time was run in a 4 lap stint, they then packed it up and went home.

The Z06 engine is outstanding, your comparing the engine to exotic cars (bar the M3) that cost QUITE a lot more. Give porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari a target of producing a performance car for $US70 000 that could compete with the Z and see how they go....

The Z06 has always been a bang for bucks bargain that sticks it to the big boys, yes it has a dodgy interier and a dodge gearbox but look at it's credentials, they are second to none.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I think the E36/46 M3s and anything with that 3.2 engine sounds like crap. I think the E60 M5/E63 M6 sound like crap. And I think they're overrated. Against their direct competitors, they're not that fast or not that great. The E46 M3, which was supposed to be some God car, got spanked when Mercedes and Audi decided to give a stuff about the market. Along came the S4 and beat it, the RS4 set the goal-posts so far the new M3 barely matches them.

Seriously, most of the stuff you post is crap...It really is.

Of ALL the comparisons I have read regarding the the M3/RS4/C63 the M3 still comes out on top, why? Because it's the best drivers car and the fastest around the track (i believe top gear had the M3 5 seconds quicker then the other two)...hmmm funny that because that's what the M3 always has been...a drivers car.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Seriously, most of the stuff you post is crap...It really is.

Of ALL the comparisons I have read regarding the the M3/RS4/C63 the M3 still comes out on top, why? Because it's the best drivers car and the fastest around the track (i believe top gear had the M3 5 seconds quicker then the other two)...hmmm funny that because that's what the M3 always has been...a drivers car.

5 seconds quicker then the other two where?

Nurburgring-Nordschleife -
Audi RS4 - 7:58
BMW M3 E92 - 8:05
C63 AMG - N/A

BMW M3 E46 - 8:22
C55 AMG - 8:22

But wait, the M3 is a superfast driver's car? Oh wait...

If you're going to accuse me of talking "crap," how about coming up with some sort of fact to back yourself up? Here's fact for you - the E92 M3 is not faster then the now outgoing B7 RS4.

Originally Posted by austyphoon

The Z06's time is more amazing because of two things.

1. At no point in the Z06's development was it EVER tested at the Nurburgring, the porsche however was born at the track, it must have run 100's times at the ring in it's development. Not to mention all the data that porsche had from other 911 models.

2. When the car was finished they stuck it in a container and shipped it over and that time was run in a 4 lap stint, they then packed it up and went home.

The Z06 engine is outstanding, your comparing the engine to exotic cars (bar the M3) that cost QUITE a lot more. Give porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari a target of producing a performance car for $US70 000 that could compete with the Z and see how they go....

The Z06 has always been a bang for bucks bargain that sticks it to the big boys, yes it has a dodgy interier and a dodge gearbox but look at it's credentials, they are second to none.

1. The Z06 was actually honed around the Nurburgring and developed there deliberately with the goal in mind of matching the 375hp 996 GT3 RS. Except the RS wasn't developed on the Nurburgring.

2. The car that ran the 7:42.9 was not showroom spec. The closest anybody has gotten with a showroom spec Z06 is 7:49. Realistically its a 7:50's car, without a team of engineers there to tweak it for the track. Unlike the Porsches and Ferraris and Lamborghinis that run on there in showroom specification...

If their goal was cheap and fast and nothing else, they would do it. Read some Z06 reviews buddy, they all talk about how crap the car is on the road, how bad the ride is, how bad the gearshift is etc. You pay for a bit more then just a fast car with a 911 Turbo/F430/Gallardo. You pay for a total package, something the Z06 is sorely missing.

Then you have the several incidents of the roof panel flying off the car at 60 mph, and one happened at 40 mph (64km/h). Build quality much? Then there's that brand new Z06 that burned down in the owner's driveway after he brought it home because the exhaust heat set the plastic bumper on fire. Mmmm... build quality.

Then of course its a matter of time until the LS7 turns itself into a piston slapping, cold start rattling, oil burning heap like every other LSx engine inevitabley does.

The Z06 is a fast car. No doubts there. But a good car? That's a totally different story. You can believe it has some merit for comparison against a 911 Turbo/F430/Gallardo, but aside from being fast, it has none.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Then you have the several incidents of the roof panel flying off the car at 60 mph, and one happened at 40 mph (64km/h). Build quality much? Then there's that brand new Z06 that burned down in the owner's driveway after he brought it home because the exhaust heat set the plastic bumper on fire. Mmmm... build quality.

Then of course its a matter of time until the LS7 turns itself into a piston slapping, cold start rattling, oil burning heap like every other LSx engine inevitabley does.

Gees, so much to read.

So you pointed out a couple of incidents so what? are you telling me that NO car has had faults? little build quality issues? The 1 in 1000 duds? Remember also the fact that Corvette sell more Z06's then Porsche hence a higher chance of something happening.

I'll point out a couple of examples of those 1 in 1000.

Since the 996 some porsches have had rear main seal problems which have meant rebuilds in some cases (after only 10000km's). Some say this is a design flaw which has carried over to the 997.

Audi's new RS8 catching on fire at the ring, not once but a couple of times.

Did you know that Lamborghini has had 7 model recalls??? The most recent being the 2006 Gallardo which had bolts coming lose on it's double wishbone suspension causing a crash.

5 seconds quicker then the other two where?

Nurburgring-Nordschleife -
Audi RS4 - 7:58
BMW M3 E92 - 8:05
C63 AMG - N/A

BMW M3 E46 - 8:22
C55 AMG - 8:22

But wait, the M3 is a superfast driver's car? Oh wait...

If you're going to accuse me of talking "crap," how about coming up with some sort of fact to back yourself up? Here's fact for you - the E92 M3 is not faster then the now outgoing B7 RS4.

Wow, you found one lap time quicker?? clap clap!

Still doesn't hide the fact that you said it "got spanked when Mercedes and Audi decided to give a stuff about the market." Where all reviews have said otherwise and don't take this the wrong way but I would rather take the word of experienced motor journalists then from someone like you.

1. The Z06 was actually honed around the Nurburgring and developed there deliberately with the goal in mind of matching the 375hp 996 GT3 RS. Except the RS wasn't developed on the Nurburgring.
2. The car that ran the 7:42.9 was not showroom spec. The closest anybody has gotten with a showroom spec Z06 is 7:49. Realistically its a 7:50's car, without a team of engineers there to tweak it for the track. Unlike the Porsches and Ferraris and Lamborghinis that run on there in showroom specification...

Wrong, it was never 'honed' around the ring, they took it over for a few days for high speed testing.

This is a quote from Jan Magnussen who ran the Z06's 7:42:9 regarding a picture taken of the Z06 fully airborne.

"The car is a standard car with street setup - had it been my racer it would hardly have left the tarmac. At NBR the street car reaches 295 km/h on the long straight in 5th gear (6th gear is an overgear for saving gasoline). At NBR there are no run-off areas like other tracks,. You simply have to stay on the track. When you are halfway around the 20 km, you think it´s a good thing there are only half as many places left you risk running off the track" Jan says.

"The street Corvette has virtually no grip compared to my race car which has a large rear spoiler. But it does have almost as many BHPs as my Le Mans racer and is almost as fast. The rev limiter sets in at 7000 rpms, and it does have more than 500 BHPs. It´s fast."

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Gees, so much to read.

So you pointed out a couple of incidents so what? are you telling me that NO car has had faults? little build quality issues? The 1 in 1000 duds? Remember also the fact that Corvette sell more Z06's then Porsche hence a higher chance of something happening.

I'll point out a couple of examples of those 1 in 1000.

Since the 996 some porsches have had rear main seal problems which have meant rebuilds in some cases (after only 10000km's). Some say this is a design flaw which has carried over to the 997.

Audi's new RS8 catching on fire at the ring, not once but a couple of times.

Did you know that Lamborghini has had 7 model recalls??? The most recent being the 2006 Gallardo which had bolts coming lose on it's double wishbone suspension causing a crash.

The car that caught fire was not an "RS8," (no such thing) it was an R8 with a 5.2litre V10 in it.

I don't know about you but I think the car burning to the ground in your driveway or the roof flying off in traffic (possibly hitting another car = trouble) are pretty bad design faults compared to a rear main seal on a 996 Porsche.

And yeah, 7 Gallardo recalls... against how many GM ones on the 'vette?

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Wow, you found one lap time quicker?? clap clap!

Still doesn't hide the fact that you said it "got spanked when Mercedes and Audi decided to give a stuff about the market." Where all reviews have said otherwise and don't take this the wrong way but I would rather take the word of experienced motor journalists then from someone like you.

If you listen to the word of experienced motor journalists you'd know that Motor rated the 253kW 410Nm B6 RS4 better then the E46 M3. The same was done by Top Gear when they compared them, The Stig did 1:30.9 on their track in the S4 and 1:31.8 in the M3 and they said the S4 was the better overall car. But wait, apparantley I talk crap so it can't be true? :

The current B7 RS4 vs E92 M3 reviews are split 50/50 win/loss for each car. And the funny thing is that the B7 RS4 is not Audi's intended competition for the all-new M3, rather, the RS5 that's coming in a few months time is. 4.2 litre V8, two turbochargers, 336kW and 678Nm...

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Wrong, it was never 'honed' around the ring, they took it over for a few days for high speed testing.

This is a quote from Jan Magnussen who ran the Z06's 7:42:9 regarding a picture taken of the Z06 fully airborne.

"The car is a standard car with street setup - had it been my racer it would hardly have left the tarmac. At NBR the street car reaches 295 km/h on the long straight in 5th gear (6th gear is an overgear for saving gasoline). At NBR there are no run-off areas like other tracks,. You simply have to stay on the track. When you are halfway around the 20 km, you think it´s a good thing there are only half as many places left you risk running off the track" Jan says.

"The street Corvette has virtually no grip compared to my race car which has a large rear spoiler. But it does have almost as many BHPs as my Le Mans racer and is almost as fast. The rev limiter sets in at 7000 rpms, and it does have more than 500 BHPs. It´s fast."

You can believe GM's test driver telling you what GM tells him to say, or you can believe other publications like Sport Auto (probably the world's leading authority on 'ring times) who took a production C6 Z06 there without GM's test driver or a team of engineers to follow it and ran it themselves, and the best they did was 7:49.

Up to you though. But using their test driver saying what he's told/payed to driving a car they tweaked and tested there as prime example doesn't make much sense.

FYI - GM now does lots of product testing at the 'ring. The ZR-1 is/was as was the new Cadillac CTS-V.

[austyphoon]

s for the Corvette, they're not trying to be 60s drag warriors anymore. They're trying to compete with Porsche. Chevrolet was openly targeting the old 911 GT3 RS (996, 3.6L 280kW) as a performance benchmark with the Z06. When they were testing at the Nurburgring-Nordschleife their aim was to beat its time of 7:43. So when they finally (after mass tweaking) pulled off a 7:42.9, they packed up and went home. Except don't expect to do that time with a customer-spec car...

That's not true, the Z06 was designed simultaneously with C6-R racecar for the American Le Mans Series, nothing to do with the GT3.

If you listen to the word of experienced motor journalists you'd know that Motor rated the 253kW 410Nm B6 RS4 better then the E46 M3. The same was done by Top Gear when they compared them, The Stig did 1:30.9 on their track in the S4 and 1:31.8 in the M3 and they said the S4 was the better overall car. But wait, apparantley I talk crap so it can't be true?

I was only ever talking about the E92 M3, you will see more comparisons favor the M3 mate.

The car that caught fire was not an "RS8," (no such thing) it was an R8 with a 5.2litre V10 in it.

There is an RS8, it's a hotted up version of the R8, thought that was common knowledge.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/8152/aud...10-spy-photos/

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

That's not true, the Z06 was designed simultaneously with C6-R racecar for the American Le Mans Series, nothing to do with the GT3.



I was only ever talking about the E92 M3, you will see more comparisons favor the M3 mate.



There is an RS8, it's a hotted up version of the R8, thought that was common knowledge.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/8152/aud...10-spy-photos/

Read up on the Z06 and their claims and goals. One of their targets was beating the 996 GT3 RS on the 'ring.

You were hazy with what you were talking about. My post in reference to the M3 getting its butt handed to it when Mercedes and Audi threw competition into the mix was in reference to the S4 and C55's debuts against the E46 M3.

There is no RS8. They made a few 5.2 V10 R8 test cars and left it at that. There is going to be a new R8 with a 368kW 1000Nm Twin Turbo Diesel V12. And it will be called Audi R8 V12 TDI. "RS," is a designation to the R version of Audi S models... ie: RS4 is the hotter S4, RS6 is the hotter S6. Therefore an RS8 would be a hotter version of the S8 sedan, but they don't make such a car.

[CAT600]

And after all this babble, The LS9 will still:

1) Make 620hp

2) Weigh under 220kg

3) Sound T!ts

4) Be relativley cheap to buy

5) Be one of the most compact engines for its output

6) Power ZR-1 to 10sec 1/4 miles

7) Achieve 30mpg on the highway in a ZR-1

This thread is about the LS9, ok, we all accept its not as exotic (or expensive) as some of the engines in $500,000 cars, but the engine itself hoses most of them for out and out performance, at a basement price.

Exactly as mentioned previously, if Ford had released this engine, nobody on this forum would END UP ARGUING ABOUT PORSCH's/BMW's/FERRARI's and LAMBO's

Overall its a great engine.

Steffo, get over yourself.

Daniel

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by CAT600

And after all this babble, The LS9 will still:

1) Make 620hp

2) Weigh under 220kg

3) Sound T!ts

4) Be relativley cheap to buy

5) Be one of the most compact engines for its output

6) Power ZR-1 to 10sec 1/4 miles

7) Achieve 30mpg on the highway in a ZR-1

This thread is about the LS9, ok, we all accept its not as exotic (or expensive) as some of the engines in $500,000 cars, but the engine itself hoses most of them for out and out performance, at a basement price.

Exactly as mentioned previously, if Ford had released this engine, nobody on this forum would END UP ARGUING ABOUT PORSCH's/BMW's/FERRARI's and LAMBO's

Overall its a great engine.

Steffo, get over yourself.

Daniel

1. It will make 620hp, no doubt.

2. The LS7 is 208kg, so less-than 220kg with the added weight of the supercharger setup is debateable.

3. Probably will sound horn, the LS7 does.

4. Yep. As is the LS7.

5. Probably.

6. Very debateable. Probably won't do 10s on stock rubber. Yet to be seen, can't be guaranteed.

7. It won't be more economical then the Z06's LS7, and that thing can't get 30 mpg (7.84L/100km) on the highway.

$500,000 in who's money? American or ours? In its home market, $500,000 cars shoot it to pieces. For that money you're talking about things like the 750hp/700ftlb 7.0L Saleen S7 Twin Turbo...

If Ford released this engine, I'd still mention its relative ineffiency compared to world automakers.

Overall its a cheap and powerful engine. There's no technical innovation with it at all, nothing to even remotely claim 'greatness.'

[Boosh Brus]

Originally Posted by Steffo

$500,000 in who's money? American or ours? In its home market, $500,000 cars shoot it to pieces. For that money you're talking about things like the 750hp/700ftlb 7.0L Saleen S7 Twin Turbo...

If Ford released this engine, I'd still mention its relative ineffiency compared to world automakers.

Funny you should mention the Saleen. The 2008 S302E is a direct competitor to the new vette.

S302E makes 620hp from a supercharged 302 (5 litre) and only costs US $79990 which is less then the new vette. Im pretty sure the more effiecient 302 is lighter then the LS9 as well.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Steffo

1. It will make 620hp, no doubt.

2. The LS7 is 208kg, so less-than 220kg with the added weight of the supercharger setup is debateable.

3. Probably will sound horn, the LS7 does.

4. Yep. As is the LS7.

5. Probably.

6. Very debateable. Probably won't do 10s on stock rubber. Yet to be seen, can't be guaranteed.

7. It won't be more economical then the Z06's LS7, and that thing can't get 30 mpg (7.84L/100km) on the highway.

$500,000 in who's money? American or ours? In its home market, $500,000 cars shoot it to pieces. For that money you're talking about things like the 750hp/700ftlb 7.0L Saleen S7 Twin Turbo...

If Ford released this engine, I'd still mention its relative ineffiency compared to world automakers.

Overall its a cheap and powerful engine. There's no technical innovation with it at all, nothing to even remotely claim 'greatness.'

[burnz]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

that kill's me.
my tummie hurt's!!