Very high tyre wear rate

[ian b]

When the hand brake is on the tyres have to 'grip' the road more for the wheels to turn, so the rate of wear is increased.

The tyres are effectively being dragged along the road surface whilst rotating more slowly than the front wheels. This leaves rubber on the road so reduces the life of the tyre.

A warped disc would cause the brake to engage intermittently at the same point of each wheel rotation causing the same effect but at a slower rate.

Come on guys, this thread seems to have gone "blonde"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by XR2DOOR

dont u mean 0.5 mm

NOPE. Even .5MM as you say will have them screaming about insdie edges, but then again, I'm probably wrong again.


Not being a DH about it all. Just stating from what I don't know.

The drum bit. Haven't others explained anything? My imagination running rampit again.


The Jag bit. Inside edge???????? Wouldn't know.

I think enough has been explained about alignment issues and brake issues about it. Some people can't read fully, so no point explaining anymore. I hate circles

[XR2DOOR]

Originally Posted by ian b

When the hand brake is on the tyres have to 'grip' the road more for the wheels to turn, so the rate of wear is increased.

The tyres are effectively being dragged along the road surface whilst rotating more slowly than the front wheels. This leaves rubber on the road so reduces the life of the tyre.

A warped disc would cause the brake to engage intermittently at the same point of each wheel rotation causing the same effect but at a slower rate.

Come on guys, this thread seems to have gone "blonde"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well that explained it a little better ,im still not buying it ,
so i guess ill leave you cranky old knowitalls to it must be small car syndrome or something

[ajay1940]

Originally Posted by XR2DOOR

im still betting on a alignment issue

Well, as I said in my post about my daughter's GTI, it could be an alignment issue. But since the OP admitted that he'd driven the car with the handbrake on far enough to ignite the linings, it's a fair bet, that's what caused the problem.
As I said in an earlier post, and ian b confirmed, anything that increases rolling resistance will increase tyre wear.
It really is a no brainer.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by XR2DOOR

well that explained it a little better ,im still not buying it ,
so i guess ill leave you cranky old knowitalls to it must be small car syndrome or something

We're not cranky knowitalls. You just can't understand how it could be possible. It's hard to shift peoples thought such as yourself, when it's setfast.

BTW, how could it be small car syndrome. I remember posting about a family car. Or do you class an AU as a small car too? Probably knowing your line of thought.

[Windsor Mondeo]

Interesting about the tyres. Just change all four tyres on my Zetec after doing 45000 k's. Mostly regional driving. My wear and tear was in the inside due to the higher amount of right hand turns than left. My original tyre was the Ponteza's.

[terya1]

Well the judgement is in. The alignment was seriously out. 14mm on the right rear wheel - all other wheels are good. When you looked carefully you could see that the drivers side wheel pointed in significantly at the front.

Copy of alignment report attached for those interested.

What is supprising to me is that the car drove so perfectly straight and well all of its first 16,000 Km. How it could happen I don't know. Bolts were tight and 14 mm is such a high number that it couldn't be the placing of the alignment tool on the wheel that was the cause.

Another possible cause is an accident with bending of chassis mounts and/or suspension components. None of this is evident and the car has not been in an accident whilst we have had it (all but the first 800Km).

Seems to come down to preparation or equipment error when pre-delivery was done by the dealer. I have not approached the dealer as after more than a year it is highly unlikely that he would accept any responsibility.

Two new tyres on the car and we move on - a little wiser perhaps.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by terya1

Well the judgement is in. The alignment was seriously out. 14mm on the right rear wheel - all other wheels are good. When you looked carefully you could see that the drivers side wheel pointed in significantly at the front.

Copy of alignment report attached for those interested.

What is supprising to me is that the car drove so perfectly straight and well all of its first 16,000 Km. How it could happen I don't know. Bolts were tight and 14 mm is such a high number that it couldn't be the placing of the alignment tool on the wheel that was the cause.

Another possible cause is an accident with bending of chassis mounts and/or suspension components. None of this is evident and the car has not been in an accident whilst we have had it (all but the first 800Km).

Seems to come down to preparation or equipment error when pre-delivery was done by the dealer. I have not approached the dealer as after more than a year it is highly unlikely that he would accept any responsibility.

Two new tyres on the car and we move on - a little wiser perhaps.

Now that's an interesting piece you've written there. I'll attempt to explain why.

14MM toe in on the rear and the car was driving straight as a die? If you think about it, if the right rear was looking inwards 14MM as you look from the front of the car, the back of the car would have been pushed across to the left, which then transfers to a car drifting right. Those who understand alignments would know about this.

Your original posting saying the car was driving straight was obviously wrong, or you misread the car. That sort of toe would be very noticeable with the drivability of the car.

Secondly. Placement of alignment tool couldn't be the cause. Mate, that's the biggest mistake you could ever make. The alignment tool placed on the wheel is the most important thing to doing an alignment there is. If that's not sitting square and straight, no matter what adjustments you do, it's doomed to stuff things up. So, that's struck off the list straight away.

That tool must sit straight and square. If you ever get a chance while your car is being aligned, grab that tool, whilst you have the adjustment screen up and move one edge and watch how the toe or camber changes. Then you'll understand what I'm referring too.

How it ever came to have the figures shown is beyond me, or even how you failed to notice the car drifting quite hard off to the right. Were you actually watching while the whole job was done? This might explain a little bit.

[terya1]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Now that's an interesting piece you've written there. I'll attempt to explain why.

14MM toe in on the rear and the car was driving straight as a die? If you think about it, if the right rear was looking inwards 14MM as you look from the front of the car, the back of the car would have been pushed across to the left, which then transfers to a car drifting right. Those who understand alignments would know about this.

Your original posting saying the car was driving straight was obviously wrong, or you misread the car. That sort of toe would be very noticeable with the drivability of the car.

Secondly. Placement of alignment tool couldn't be the cause. Mate, that's the biggest mistake you could ever make. The alignment tool placed on the wheel is the most important thing to doing an alignment there is. If that's not sitting square and straight, no matter what adjustments you do, it's doomed to stuff things up. So, that's struck off the list straight away.

That tool must sit straight and square. If you ever get a chance while your car is being aligned, grab that tool, whilst you have the adjustment screen up and move one edge and watch how the toe or camber changes. Then you'll understand what I'm referring too.

How it ever came to have the figures shown is beyond me, or even how you failed to notice the car drifting quite hard off to the right. Were you actually watching while the whole job was done? This might explain a little bit.

I have driven this car almost every weekend over the last year on a 180Km return trip to the Mornington Peninsula on freeways and open roads (100K/h). I can only say that it drove as straight as a die although I agree that this should not be the case. I know that this seems impossible but I have for the last 25 years bought a new (work) car every year and they have never sat on the road so well, hands on or off the wheel.

I was fortunate to find a service manager who allowed me to watch the alignment process closely and was very happy to explain what they found. He explained that the alignment would be expected to be within 1 mm and preferably adjusted to about 0.5 mm. He said that the measurement was made across the 17 inch rim face.

Therfore, if you are attempting to adjust the alignment within 0.5 mm the positioning of the tool on the rim face is very important. However, the fact that the alignment was out by 14 mm means that the tool would have to be falling off to be sitting out from the face of the rim by this amount and to have caused the error in alignment. Hence my statement that the placement of the tool could not be the fault for this large error.

So I don't know where I'm at now, as my wife has just reported that the car (with perfect alignment?) is now pulling to the left on the freeway. I'm yet to check this myself.

[XR2DOOR]

someone might of clipped the gutter when it was a demo model ,14mm is excessive but ive seen it b4

[XR2DOOR]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

We're not cranky knowitalls. You just can't understand how it could be possible. It's hard to shift peoples thought such as yourself, when it's setfast.

BTW, how could it be small car syndrome. I remember posting about a family car. Or do you class an AU as a small car too? Probably knowing your line of thought.

apology accepted

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by XR2DOOR

someone might of clipped the gutter when it was a demo model ,14mm is excessive but ive seen it b4

I have too, but generally it's because it was more than a clip of a gutter or round about or the bracket that holds the head in place isn't straight.

This pulling left, or even a drift left now the "perfect" alignment has been done makes you wonder doesn't it?

The plot thickens.

Mr XR 2 DOOR My apology????? You'd be hoping

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

It can't be alignment. A wheel alignment is meant to have the wheels pointing in the straight ahead position. If they're not pointing straight ahead, they will wear one edge or the other, not the whole tyre.

The handbrake option does sound more appropriate as being the cause. That's my opinion over it all. So let us know what you find.

Just in case anyone's forgotten...


14mm is a HUGE amount of toe error. I'd be surprised if it was caused by something like a wheel clipping the kerb; more likely it came like that from the factory and the dealer didn't check the alignment during the PDI.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Just in case anyone's forgotten...


14mm is a HUGE amount of toe error. I'd be surprised if it was caused by something like a wheel clipping the kerb; more likely it came like that from the factory and the dealer didn't check the alignment during the PDI.

Sorry mate, but if it was actually toeing that amount, with the driving of the car, it would have pulled HARD right. So, I doubt it has something to do with the PDI.

I also mentioned after this posting about that toe issue, or did you bypass that comment? I think so.

But hey, this is going in one big circle and I'm jumping off right here. I'd better stick to my smaller cars, eg AU's :

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Sorry mate, but if it was actually toeing that amount, with the driving of the car, it would have pulled HARD right. So, I doubt it has something to do with the PDI.

I also mentioned after this posting about that toe issue, or did you bypass that comment? I think so.

But hey, this is going in one big circle and I'm jumping off right here. I'd better stick to my smaller cars, eg AU's :

Bye then. But it's been entertaining having you around.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Bye then. But it's been entertaining having you around.

Especially when you don't know how to read or understand how a suspension works.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Especially when you don't know how to read or understand how a suspension works.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

sleep: : : :nutsycuck

[terya1]

Final post and some good news. After the alignment correction the car does not pull to the left any more than would be expected due to the camber of the road.

Better still, I just received news that through the ford dealer that sold me the car, Ford have offered to pay half the cost of the tyre replacement ($180). I'm happy and a bit supprised by this but I didn't expect them to even give me the time of day considering that the even tyre wear across the tread and lack of pulling to the side are not explained.

Thankyou everyone for your comments. :

PS: Its only 800Km on the new tyres but I've noticed that average fuel consumption according to the computer has improved from 8.2 to 7.3 L/100Km. Nice when the rear wheels don't fight the front ones!

[paulie0735]

Good news indeed. It sounds like they may be admitting that the car was not set up correctly from day 1. Nice outcome.
Just on the alignment issue it seems to me you had a seriously incorrect tow adjustment, either to much toe-in or toe-out. An incorrect toe-in or toe-out will cause rapid tire wear to both tyres and the wear will be right across the tyre surface. You won't feel it through the steering wheel either as both wheels will counter each other out. If it’s been fixed (I suspect it has) than the car should feel nicer to drive especially around high speed sweeping bends.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by paulie0735

Good news indeed. It sounds like they may be admitting that the car was not set up correctly from day 1. Nice outcome.
Just on the alignment issue it seems to me you had a seriously incorrect tow adjustment, either to much toe-in or toe-out. An incorrect toe-in or toe-out will cause rapid tire wear to both tyres and the wear will be right across the tyre surface. You won't feel it through the steering wheel either as both wheels will counter each other out. If it’s been fixed (I suspect it has) than the car should feel nicer to drive especially around high speed sweeping bends.

Out of curiosity, why would a car pull one direction or the other, if the one corner of the rear is toeing a hell of a lot more than the other. Like this car. 14MM toe one corner, zip the opposite side? Or has that nothing to do with the steering wheel?


Not pulling to the left anymore. That's got me stumped. Didn't the car drive straight to begin with, before the alignment was done? Sounds like some porkies were said right at the beginning of the thread.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by terya1

Final post and some good news. After the alignment correction the car does not pull to the left any more than would be expected due to the camber of the road.

Better still, I just received news that through the ford dealer that sold me the car, Ford have offered to pay half the cost of the tyre replacement ($180). I'm happy and a bit supprised by this but I didn't expect them to even give me the time of day considering that the even tyre wear across the tread and lack of pulling to the side are not explained.

Thankyou everyone for your comments. :

PS: Its only 800Km on the new tyres but I've noticed that average fuel consumption according to the computer has improved from 8.2 to 7.3 L/100Km. Nice when the rear wheels don't fight the front ones!

Very good news indeed. From experience, it's posssible to have a serious rear wheel alignment problem and not be aware of it until you see the tyre wear.

Enjoy your Mondeo!

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Very good news indeed. From experience, it's posssible to have a serious rear wheel alignment problem and not be aware of it until you see the tyre wear.

Enjoy your Mondeo!

Can you explain why I car would drift from the rear, when the alignments out then? I'm trying to understand it, seeing as though I'm lacking experience. Only been doing them for 15 years

[LRsedan]

Get over it mate, this is not a personal attack thread.
You have no need to prove yourself amongst readers.

Good to hear its all sorted out mate, enjoy the car!

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by LRsedan

Get over it mate, this is not a personal attack thread.
You have no need to prove yourself amongst readers.

Good to hear its all sorted out mate, enjoy the car!

Not having a personal attack on anyone. Just trying to find out how a car can drive straight with a problem that has been described. It's called, improving knowledge. Isn't what this forum is about? Or am I wrong with that thought?

[LRsedan]

Your tone was very sarcastic, however this is the internet...

All Im saying is, the guy has fixed his problem and everything is now well.

If you have 15 years experience, you don't need to argue your point. You know in your head if your right or wrong, no need to prove yourself...

Just trying to stop a 20 page thread of arguments.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by LRsedan

Your tone was very sarcastic, however this is the internet...

All Im saying is, the guy has fixed his problem and everything is now well.

If you have 15 years experience, you don't need to argue your point. You know in your head if your right or wrong, no need to prove yourself...

Just trying to stop a 20 page thread of arguments.

Fair enough the guy has fixed the problem and I have the experience up my sleeve, but what I'm trying to get put on this forum is how a car can drive straight with that much toe, so others can go back for future reference.

I get people in all the time, that claim they read this or that on the net and what I'm saying must be rubbish. So by posting reasons for this occurring on the net, this will then help people like me get through to others that what is posted on the net can be a load of rubbish.

So, no I'm not trying to prove myself, I'm trying to get answers for others on this topic. Is that too much to ask?

[PeddStaff2]

Bit of passion on this thread...good to see! I have attached the below link which gives some basic info on wheel alignment.

http://www.pedders.com.au/products/55

Cheers!