AUDI Builds A Rotary Engined Car

[csv8]

Audi's plug-in electric A1 e-Tron can be recharged using a regular powerpoint, but it also gets a rotary engine similar to a Mazda RX sports cars.

Audi has revived the quirky rotary engine that has been used exclusively in Mazda RX models such as the RX-7 and RX-8 for more than two decades.

The tiny 0.25-litre (254cc) single piston '****el' engine acts as a range extender in the Audi A1 e-Tron electric car, which can drive up to 50km on electricity alone.

Instead of pistons that move up and down the piston spins around an axis making for smooth running and reducing stress on some components.

Rotary engines were once considered the next big thing and capable of overtaking the four-stroke engines used in all modern cars. But increased development and efficiencies injected life into the regular piston engines.

The tiny engine in the Audi e-Tron has been designed to operate at a single speed - 5,000rpm - allowing engineers to tune it for the specific task of recharging the car's lithium ion batteries.

Like other so-called plug-in hybrid cars, the Audi e-Tron's petrol rotary engine never actually drives the wheels, instead just charging the battery in an effort to improve efficiency.

It musters only 15kW of power, about one-eighth an average small car.

Audi says the e-Tron uses a claimed average of 1.9 litres of fuel per 100km (using the government-derived formula), which is about one quarter an average small car.

It has a 12 litre fuel tank, which takes overall driving range for the Audi A1 e-Tron to 250km, about half of what you'd expect from many of similarly sized vehicles.

"This is the next baby within the e-Tron family," and Audi spokesman said. "We're thinking boldly along new lines."

It is expected that the Audi e-Tron will be able to be fully recharged in around five hours from a regular 240V outlet

[trippytaka]

Where has this come from?

[hhaannkkyy]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/59145/au...t-geneva-2010/

[flappist]

Now just replace the rotary engine with a small gas turbine and we have the ultimate bio-hybrid that will run on almost anything.

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by hhaannkkyy

http://www.caradvice.com.au/59145/au...t-geneva-2010/

Brilliant! Far out... that's cool. Definitely outside the box

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by flappist

Now just replace the rotary engine with a small gas turbine and we have the ultimate bio-hybrid that will run on almost anything.

Wouldn't the turbine gobble more fuel than the rotor?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Wouldn't the turbine gobble more fuel than the rotor?

Probably, in many applications gas turbine engines are quite thirsty but provide excellent power and torque, features that are not really such an issue in this application. The multi fuel capability is a positive feature and something that would be a benefit. The technology for this has been around since the late 70's at least (when the M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank was developed). A lot smaller scale of this might be a further development, who knows. Interesting times ahead.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Wouldn't the turbine gobble more fuel than the rotor?

Yes it possibly would, but not petrol or diesel.

A gas turbine will be a happy gargling away on any of the bio mass fuels that are being pushed as the "new messiah".

How about a car that runs on mashed up Water Hyacinth or other aquatic weeds......

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by flappist

How about a car that runs on mashed up Water Hyacinth or other aquatic weeds......

I'm sure the Water Hyacinth Preservation Society would have something to say about that.......

[cosmo20btt]

There is still plenty of technology to come from the rotary engine.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Now just replace the rotary engine with a small gas turbine and we have the ultimate bio-hybrid that will run on almost anything.

a turbine in a car pffftt....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uoAT...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRO5I...eature=related

Seriously though, thumbs up to Audi.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes it possibly would, but not petrol or diesel.

A gas turbine will be a happy gargling away on any of the bio mass fuels that are being pushed as the "new messiah".

How about a car that runs on mashed up Water Hyacinth or other aquatic weeds......

As Gecko said, they use turbines in the M1 series of Abrams tanks and they can run on heaps of different stuff with no issues.

[hhaannkkyy]

http://www.cnet.com.au/audi-a1-e-tro...9301507.htm#vp

[flappist]

Gas turbines are quite efficient when running at a fixed thrust setting, are very light and almost fuel agnostic.

If a theoretical electric vehicle was primarily powered by a 100kw motor and was used in short range continuous duty such as taxi or delivery van then, similarly to the Audi, the batterys would be on a constant charge from and alternator driven by a small 10-20kw turbine. The turbine would be spooled up at the beginning of the day and run continuously until the end of the day.

The advantage this would have over the rotary or a reciprocating engine is that more "ecomentalist friendly" fuels could be used.

Of course the disadvantage would be that turbines are more expensive to build and do not suffer the abuse of morons well (although computerised systems can remove most of the problems).

[Agent86]

there was an issue of street machine last year where an aging rocker was undertaking a similar conversion in an old impala or something..

This is likley to be our bridging step from oil based fuel.

[ChemicalHorizon]

As much as the combined cycle gas turbine is fairly good at energy recovery, the nat gas diesel is better.

[cosmo20btt]

There appears to be a market for the Rotary to sell to Hybrids, as I think they will become more popular as time goes by.
http://www.rotapower.info/replacedirty2stroke.html

[wheelzie1989]

but would it be reliable than mazda's attempt

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by wheelzie1989

but would it be reliable than mazda's attempt

The seal technology has come a long way since the early days, after all there prepared to hang out of the skies in the Moller Skycar ( although still tethered for insurance), but I had heard that Moller is on the way to Bankruptcy, that is why now trying to flog motors to Hybrid technology.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by wheelzie1989

but would it be reliable than mazda's attempt

Is the BOSS 315 more reliable than the engine in a Model T?

Rotary engines are used in aircraft, a place where if your engine fails you can't just pull up on a cloud and call for RACQ to come and fix it.

[Agent86]

different type of engine being spoken about here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine

While some aircraft use a ****el style rotary, most are piston versions.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Agent86

different type of engine being spoken about here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine

While some aircraft use a ****el style rotary, most are piston versions.

That's a Rotary piston engine where the engine case spins and the crank is mounted to the frame stay still, I think they stopped using them about 80 years ago, and the other is a radial piston engine where the engine case is mounted and the crank spins internally. As for ****el rotary engines they are fitted to planes, as I have worked on one, it was a single rotor version, and I have seen a company that converts mazda turbo engines to planes engines.They used huge diesel ones in ships as well, they are more common than some people think.

[Agent86]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

That's a Rotary piston engine where the engine case spins and the crank is mounted to the frame stay still, I think they stopped using them about 80 years ago, and the other is a radial piston engine where the engine case is mounted and the crank spins internally. As for ****el rotary engines they are fitted to planes, as I have worked on one, it was a single rotor version, and I have seen a company that converts mazda turbo engines to planes engines.They used huge diesel ones in ships as well, they are more common than some people think.

I knew they were fitted in planes, but every light aircraft i have seen has not had one fitted. I am under the impression that they arent all that common

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Agent86

I knew they were fitted in planes, but every light aircraft i have seen has not had one fitted. I am under the impression that they arent all that common

No but they are far more common than V8s or I6s

The majority of bugsmashers are fitted with low revving 4 or 6 cylinder Lycoming or Continental boxer engines.

Reliability is the most important aspect and 2500 rpm is about as high as they can go so all the super dooper car technology and electronics are of no use whatsoever.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Agent86

I knew they were fitted in planes, but every light aircraft i have seen has not had one fitted. I am under the impression that they arent all that common

Here is an except from wikipedia regarding rotary use:
****el engines are becoming increasingly popular in homebuilt experimental aircraft, due to a number of factors. Most are Mazda 12A and 13B engines, removed from automobiles and converted to aviation use. This is a very cost-effective alternative to certified aircraft engines, providing engines ranging from 100 to 300 horsepower (220 kW) at a fraction of the cost of traditional engines. These conversions first took place in the early 1970s, and with hundreds or even thousands of these engines mounted on aircraft, as of 10 December 2006 the National Transportation Safety Board has only seven reports of incidents involving aircraft with Mazda engines, and none of these is of a failure due to design or manufacturing flaws. During the same time frame, they have reports of several thousand reports of broken crankshafts and connecting rods, failed pistons and incidents caused by other components which are not found in the ****el engines. Rotary engine enthusiasts refer to piston aircraft engines as "Reciprosaurs," and point out that their designs are essentially unchanged since the 1930s, with only minor differences in manufacturing processes and variation in engine displacement.

Peter Garrison, contributing editor for Flying magazine, has said that "the most promising engine for aviation use is the Mazda rotary." Garrison lost an airplane which he had designed and built (and missed death literally by inches), when a piston-powered plane had engine failure and crashed into Garrison's plane, which was waiting to take off.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by csv8

Audi says the e-Tron uses a claimed average of 1.9 litres of fuel per 100km (using the government-derived formula), which is about one quarter an average small car.

It has a 12 litre fuel tank, which takes overall driving range for the Audi A1 e-Tron to 250km, about half of what you'd expect from many of similarly sized vehicles.

How does that work? Shouldn't a 12 litre tank give it a range of around 600km based on its average consumption?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

How does that work? Shouldn't a 12 litre tank give it a range of around 600km based on its average consumption?

It is an electric car not a hybrid.

The 15kw engine just charges the batteries and it can't charge them faster than the motor drains them.

The 1.9l/100km is derived by applying a formula that is not really suitable for this type of power system.

Like the 500w car stereos that draw 10 amps at 12v, it is all about marketing and presentation not physics or engineering.