Whats your take?

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by plarazza

For such a young kid to die is horrible. Despite the mistake and bad decision to drive irresponsibly never should death be the punishment.

Unfortunately and I hate to mention it but it is individuals driving Holdens that constantly "hoon" and drive stupidly more so than any other drivers. Statistics and reports continue to back this up ( In Victoria anyway). This is not directed at John Scarfo or anybody else at all but I will always think there are more idiots behind the wheel of a commodore.

Originally Posted by Ben73

It's bad to hear. But I was not surprised when I read commodore. Look at all news reports like this and it's a scary high percentage of them are commodores.
I am pretty polite on the road and normally let cars out and let cars change lanes on front of me. Unless they are a p plater in a commodore. Then I will refuse to give way to them unless I legally have too. They bring it on themselves. I used to like commodores until I realized most young people in them are idiots. Even if it's their mums car.

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Not just young people , virtually every SS or HSV and to a lesser degree SV6 is usually piloted by an imbecile , I see it all day every day as rep on the roads all day long . I always let them past me as I DO NOT want these morons behind me under any circumstance . And it is true when you look at horrific accidents Commodores are grossly overrepresented .

Originally Posted by Ben73

Yeah it does. A lot of young guys who buy commodores like racing and driving like morons. That's why every second commodore with a young owner has big rims on the front and stocks on the back. So they can do burnouts for cheap. Don't see many other cars with that combination of wheels. Hence why many people think young commodore drivers are idiots.

A kid does something stupid in his Fathers car and you 3 have nothing better to contribute other than to bash Holdens. Have a read the forums, look up Mill Park, look for the XR6 Turbo, look for all the other threads relating to stupid behaviour in cars. A BADGE DOES NOT DICTATE BEHAVIOUR.

The kid in the story was being a Moron. Plain and simple. His brand of car had nothing to do with it. Racing on the streets puts every other road user in danger. The fact he did not back off when approaching the bus shows that not only was he stupid, but he was a selfish, arrogant jerk, who only thought of himself. Winning a race was important than personal safety. Good Riddance.

The argument for his mate being charged is that if he wasn't particapating in the race, then the accident would not have happened. I would like to see these same charges be brought upon Undercover Police who try and bait drivers into street racing. Its the same thing.

The only positive thing to come out of this is that he was the only one to be killed. Its these types of events that usually claim innocent lives, while the instigators survive.

I will offer my condolences to the family, even though my post may come across as harsh. I have 2 small children myself and don't like the thought of sharing the road with people like these.

Now can we stay on topic please and leave brand bashing out of it?

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

A kid does something stupid in his Fathers car and you 3 have nothing better to contribute other than to bash Holdens. Have a read the forums, look up Mill Park, look for the XR6 Turbo, look for all the other threads relating to stupid behaviour in cars. A BADGE DOES NOT DICTATE BEHAVIOUR.

The kid in the story was being a Moron. Plain and simple. His brand of car had nothing to do with it. Racing on the streets puts every other road user in danger. The fact he did not back off when approaching the bus shows that not only was he stupid, but he was a selfish, arrogant jerk, who only thought of himself. Winning a race was important than personal safety. Good Riddance.

The argument for his mate being charged is that if he wasn't particapating in the race, then the accident would not have happened. I would like to see these same charges be brought upon Undercover Police who try and bait drivers into street racing. Its the same thing.

The only positive thing to come out of this is that he was the only one to be killed. Its these types of events that usually claim innocent lives, while the instigators survive.

I will offer my condolences to the family, even though my post may come across as harsh. I have 2 small children myself and don't like the thought of sharing the road with people like these.

Now can we stay on topic please and leave brand bashing out of it?

Fact of life I'm afraid , I spend all day every day on the road and even though Commodore sales are for the sake of the argument 2 times that of Falcons the stupidity I see on the road is more like 10 to 1 .

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by flappist

Two questions:

1) How many non P platers did you notice doing similar things?
2) If there were no P plates on the cars as it was in QLD up until recently would you have taken any extra notice of these events?

Very good points there mate, yes I do notice others doing silly things, but what worries me the most is that they (younger drivers) will take these bad habbits and continue to repeat them long after they are off their P's.

I need to do a refresher defensive driving course myself, I'm not perfect and I know I've got some bad habbits I need to curb (i.e. one hand on the wheel)

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Fact of life I'm afraid , I spend all day every day on the road and even though Commodore sales are for the sake of the argument 2 times that of Falcons the stupidity I see on the road is more like 10 to 1 .

I own an XR8 and an SSV. I can't see a difference in the way I drive the 2 cars. Furthermore, I am on the road for most of the day aswell, and the thing I see mostly is that the average motorist is oblivious to anything around them, and that if I was to define a vehicle for the worst driving style, it would be the XR6 ute. Insurance premiums prove it.

What do you base your assumptions on?

[Auturbo6]

In my day, 1990's, young people drove 202 commodores, datsun 1600, 1.2 corolla's, etc. Slow cars that seemed fast due to there crude design and lack of refinement. Now however, commodores, falcons, corollas, hyundai's etc are so much faster, and because of the ease with which they do drive, don't give the same thrill as before. Other than condem youngsters to daewoo matiz's, there is nothing that can be done. Man made population control in action. And to think, technology is supposed to make our lives easier.....

[Cabbage]

"I would like to see these same charges be brought upon Undercover Police who try and bait drivers into street racing. Its the same thing".

If this practice occurred, and I have my doubts, the so called "race" would be terminated very quickly with lights and sirens. Remember police officers are the ones that are usually cleaning up the mess after crashes occur. The last thing a police officer would want is to go to another fatal car crash. I think you'll find if a police officer recklessly causes the death of any person in the course of their duty they would be charged. For this reason I would be surprised if police officers would bait other drivers into street rac. As I said if they did if would be terminated very quickly.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

"I would like to see these same charges be brought upon Undercover Police who try and bait drivers into street racing. Its the same thing".

If this practice occurred, and I have my doubts, the so called "race" would be terminated very quickly with lights and sirens. Remember police officers are the ones that are usually cleaning up the mess after crashes occur. The last thing a police officer would want is to go to another fatal car crash. I think you'll find if a police officer recklessly causes the death of any person in the course of their duty they would be charged. For this reason I would be surprised if police officers would bait other drivers into street rac. As I said if they did if would be terminated very quickly.

i was so sick of baseball cap dudes eggin me on one night i is dropped a big rack off snakey..... red n blues dressed up like dudes from home and away they knew they stuffed up.. license check and away i went... hehe.....

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

" For this reason I would be surprised if police officers would bait other drivers into street rac. As I said if they did if would be terminated very quickly.

You hear stories of it happening. Even hear stories on this forum about it.
They do it, they won't admit to it. They may not actually drag race to 180Km/h. But they rev the engine and bait high performance cars next to them at the lights.

On the topic of commodore's, I have been on My P's for 3 years. Most of that time I had a Mitsubishi Magna. twice in 3 years randoms next to me atthe lights have asked if I wanted to drag race them while I was in my dead stock magna.... surprise surprise, both times it was a P plater in a commodore.

But no... young commodore drivers are not hoons are they.

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by Ben73

You hear stories of it happening. Even hear stories on this forum about it.
They do it, they won't admit to it. They may not actually drag race to 180Km/h. But they rev the engine and bait high performance cars next to them at the lights.

On the topic of commodore's, I have been on My P's for 3 years. Most of that time I had a Mitsubishi Magna. twice in 3 years randoms next to me atthe lights have asked if I wanted to drag race them while I was in my dead stock magna.... surprise surprise, both times it was a P plater in a commodore.

But no... young commodore drivers are not hoons are they.

I used to own a WRX. My wife used to drive it. Any idea how many clowns in Hyundais wanted to race her? Maybe its the generation, not the car?

Ouch. We don't like those remarks either, do we? Pull your head in and stop brand bashing.

[CODSASR]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

For this reason I would be surprised if police officers would bait other drivers into street rac. As I said if they did if would be terminated very quickly.

I have only been off my p's for 2 years when I first got them I witnessed this verry practice by police on sturt street it Ballarat and often they would race the P plater at one set of lights then again at the next set before turning on the disco lights and music to pull them over ( for the recored the police where using a black xr8 ute and a silver xr8 ute).

Might sound harsh but if your gunna race on the roads you deserve to wipe your self out the only sad part is they often take out innocent people

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

"I would like to see these same charges be brought upon Undercover Police who try and bait drivers into street racing. Its the same thing".

If this practice occurred, and I have my doubts, the so called "race" would be terminated very quickly with lights and sirens. Remember police officers are the ones that are usually cleaning up the mess after crashes occur. The last thing a police officer would want is to go to another fatal car crash. I think you'll find if a police officer recklessly causes the death of any person in the course of their duty they would be charged. For this reason I would be surprised if police officers would bait other drivers into street rac. As I said if they did if would be terminated very quickly.

Cabbage, this practise has been going on for as long as I can remember. In NSW a mate of got done that way 20 years ago. These day it still happens. Now I live in QLD and I hear about on the Pacific Highway between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. Its just done to get the driver to go over the speed limit for an easy ticket. Its the ummm, quota thing.

[CODSASR]

On the brand bashing I think the only reason commodores are so high on the stats is because of how popular they are when I first got my licence out of 30 guys I knew at the time only 2 of us brought a falcon and one brought a 350z the rest all got various model commodores

[ZDI-970]

Originally Posted by Brazen

bloody hell, you think this comparable to a couple of kids making a stupid mistake? Have some compassion for the situation.

I hate these threads, they turn into self-righteous ****ing contests, whereby p platers are made out to be devil. These are just kids, and they make idiotic tragic mistakes. My condolences to the family.

well put and 100% true
what are the chances of the teen who survived ever doing this again? he made a mistake and him and maybe a few of their mates would have learnt their lesson (although sadly at a great cost)

[ZDI-970]

Originally Posted by Ben73

But no... young commodore drivers are not hoons are they.

what a ridiculous coment...

[GreenR]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

A kid does something stupid in his Fathers car and you 3 have nothing better to contribute other than to bash Holdens. Have a read the forums, look up Mill Park, look for the XR6 Turbo, look for all the other threads relating to stupid behaviour in cars. A BADGE DOES NOT DICTATE BEHAVIOUR.

The kid in the story was being a Moron. Plain and simple. His brand of car had nothing to do with it. Racing on the streets puts every other road user in danger. The fact he did not back off when approaching the bus shows that not only was he stupid, but he was a selfish, arrogant jerk, who only thought of himself. Winning a race was important than personal safety. Good Riddance.

The argument for his mate being charged is that if he wasn't particapating in the race, then the accident would not have happened. I would like to see these same charges be brought upon Undercover Police who try and bait drivers into street racing. Its the same thing.

The only positive thing to come out of this is that he was the only one to be killed. Its these types of events that usually claim innocent lives, while the instigators survive.

I will offer my condolences to the family, even though my post may come across as harsh. I have 2 small children myself and don't like the thought of sharing the road with people like these.

Now can we stay on topic please and leave brand bashing out of it?

Not brand bashing at all. I LIKE Holden Commodores nearly bought a VZ myself. However statistics do not lie as I mentioned backing up my original claim.

Back in July 2006 when new anti hoon laws were introduced and the impounding of confiscated cars began as a result of hoon drivers the Victoria Police released publicly the media a report.

From 1 July - 23 October 2006
441 vehicles were impounded.
224 of those (51%) were Holdens. 166 (74%) of those were Commodores
70(16%) were Ford. (Model of car ie.Falcons not specified)

Fast forward to July 2010 when the Victoria Police released another report stating 46% of impounded cars under hoon laws were Holdens. Whilst 16.7% were Ford

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

How cool one FW wiped himself instead of taking a few with him......

Subtle as always PB

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Speed does NOT kill , not knowing how to drive is what kills . If speed kills every second person in Germany would be dead in a car accident and they'd have a road toll in the millions every year . Sick and tired of hearing these stories week in week out , ZERO sympathy for him as it may be my family wiped out by someone of his ilk one day .

+1

[Cabbage]

If the police are "baiting" drivers to a street race I am certain it would be done for the right reasons, ie genuinely trying to get dangerous drivers off the road. How many times have you pulled up at the lights and had some tool do something like this and you thought gee I wish the cops were hear right now. If you are stupin enough to try to race someone in this circumstance thn you deserve to get booked. I am surpirsed this practice takes place as if there was an accident the police would face some hurdles.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Subtle as always PB

very happy to know this idiot is no longer sharing the roads with my loved ones.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

If the police are "baiting" drivers to a street race I am certain it would be done for the right reasons, ie genuinely trying to get dangerous drivers off the road.

More like $$$ reasons and the power trip when they get to take away someones car for 2 days.

[FNQracing]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

More like $$$ reasons and the power trip when they get to take away someones car for 2 days.

I'm all for baiting.

The more cranium deficient neanderthals taken off the roads - the better. If the coppers get a bit of a power trip over it, then goody for them.

I'm just happy that another primate is mobility challenged, if even for a couple of days.

[XRtowcar]

Any life lost to irresponsibility is one too many.
Yeah the guy was mentally challenged thinking he could race a Commodore in a built up area, but what training did he have to say it wasn't a good idea.
Theres not enough pre licence training given to prevent young guys making these rash decisions that take there life.
Make the licences harder to achieve with proper driving instruction to show them what happens when they lose control and how little effort it really takes to lose control in the wrong situation.
Some of us were lucky to survive some stupid impulses we had on the road when inexperienced.
New drivers shouldn't be let out on the road without a true idea of what can go wrong when they make the wrong choice.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

I used to own a WRX. My wife used to drive it. Any idea how many clowns in Hyundais wanted to race her? Maybe its the generation, not the car?

Ouch. We don't like those remarks either, do we? Pull your head in and stop brand bashing.

Bag out P platers all you like. Doesn't worry me.

Anyway if the % of morons is consistent across all models and not just biased to commodores, then there should be more people in Corollas trying to drag race, do 140 in 60 and just generally driving like idiots.

Today I drove 100km on the new England highway. I saw 3 stupid drivers.

1 was in a VY tailgating me while I was in the right lane overtaking an L plater

1 was in a VE SS ute. I was 1 car length ahead of him with a rolling start to the green light, his lane was about to end, I started to accelerate at a normal rate(which was faster then he was accelerating) then he realizes I am going to be in front of him, so he floors it and cuts in front of me. I bet he felt awesome driving faster then a diesel Prado.

1 was in a Camry. he just changed lanes about 5 times without indicating.

I was going to buy a VY Sv6, so I don't hate the cars, just observed that there are lots of 'hoons' in commodores.