servicing cost v full service history upon selling

[naddis01]

So you would buy a car that hadn't had an oil change for 45000km? It had missed the 30000km and 45000km services so the oil hadn't been changed between 15000km and 60000km. Or should I say the books weren't filled out.

Why bother going to the expense and hassle of checking it out further when there are so many cars available for sale? They were both VE Commodores (07 and 08 models with very similar km) which aren't exactly thin on the ground.

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

i got my last 2 cars serviced by my dealer to keep my warranty intact. i have complete faith in my dealer to do a good job.

my next service on my fg will be due beyond the warranty period, so i'm discussing the merits of keeping a full service history versus reverting back to servicing the car myself.

some people think that a full service history offers peace of mind to a prospective buyer and may be worth a small premium come sale time.

others think the stamp has no meaning and service departments are the scum of the earth (almost it seems).

there are pro's and cons to each way.

my car isn't due for a service for another 10 months or so (i don't do 15000/yr) and i'm not looking at selling before then or even soon after, but part of me can't help but feel it will be beneficial to keep the service history up, esp while its under 100000km.

that is all.

prydey, why not just service it yourself as you say, but keep filling in the service book. At least you would be keeping a record of when it was serviced, thus keeping the service histry intact.

And if it was that much of a concern, keep all the receipts for the parts you use for the service.
Receipts with dates on them that can match up to the detail you put in your service book is going to be worth far more than not keeping the service history at all.

[geckoGT]

I did a service on the parents Corolla today, its a 2004 model with only 50,000 km on it so it does not do a lot of K's. After what I saw today, I can see a lot of merit in the idea that the home enthusiast will do a better job of a minor service than some of the "reputable" mechanics. This vehicle had its last service (10,000 km ago) done by a "reputable" mob, during which they billed for a new air filter. Either they did not replace the air filter of the parents did a trip out to Uluru without telling me because there is not way on this earth it collect that much dust in urban Brisbane, I have seen some of our old farm vehicles with cleaner air filters. That and the fact that you have no idea of the quality of the oils and parts that go into the car.

So today I carried out the service according to the manual, used quality oils and filters plus did some things that previous services had not done including cleaning collected dirt off the engine and thoroughly inspected for leaking or weeping gaskets. Receipts for all oils etc used are now in the folder for further record. Time taken for the whole exercise was 3 hours, not many mechanics will take that amount of time.

As for is it worth it on resale? I think it depends how long you keep the car. If you only keep the car for 60,000 km (4 services on Ford Falcon) then it would be worth it to keep it up to date at a qualified mechanic. If you have a car like my old ED Falcon that I kept for over 300,000 km then doing your own services (as long as you do them well and keep records) becomes financially more effective. On that ED that would have been 300 services over the time I kept the car, if each was $200 then it would cost me $6000 over that time. I am sure no one would suggest that I would get $6000 more at sale time for a stamped book, on a 8 year old car. I actually got a very good price on it, equal to or more than some of the same make and model, with the buyer commenting it was the best kept example he had seen and still sounded and drives like new.

I guess it all comes down to the sums at the end.

[Fiesta_Man69]

The car with a service history will be worth more and attract more buyers.

However:

When talking about value you are far better to get it serviced by an independent mechanic, like I do, rather than a Ford dealer. Here's why:

1. Cost. A reputable (ie. been there for years) independent will always be cheaper.
2. Quality of materials. This is a no brainer. For my WS Fiesta I buy my own fully synth oil, plugs etc from Repco/supercheap (usually at 20% off, like this wk end in NSW I think) and pay my mechanic $80 to put them in, stamp the book and print of a detailed receipt.
3. Quality of work. At a decent independent mechanic, like mine, the bloke who works on your car is likely to own the joint. Therefore he has a massive vested interest in doing a decent job on your car. Compare this to a dealership or any chain store like ultratune or kmart and you very easily get an apprentice, or a mechanic who might be leaving next week - you never know. You may get a decent mechanic but... A bit of a lottery.

The difference between a Ford stamp and an independent mechanic doesn't make a difference to resale: both count equally for service history.

However, if you keep your Ford for 100K, servicing every 15K, you will save hundreds and lose nothing at trade/sale time. For example, with parts and labor, my 30K service cost me just over $130. Ford wanted just shy of $400.

Do the math over 4 yrs.....

So, anyways, any service history will get you more at resale and attract more buyers - my sister in law refused to look at a corolla without a service history last year when she was buying private. Then again some people won't care either way.

[Supercharged]

When I have traded a vehicle the dealer personel don't even look.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

I thought Ford servicing was 6 months or 15,000kms

12months or 15000km

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Is that Factory Ford warranty you are refering to ?.

yes it is. if you are going to tell me that i don't need to take it to a ford dealer, i am well aware of that. my dealer looks after me and i'm more than happy to take it there. it is my choice. to give you an idea, last service (60k) cost me $180. (i supply oil)

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

prydey, why not just service it yourself as you say, but keep filling in the service book. At least you would be keeping a record of when it was serviced, thus keeping the service histry intact.

And if it was that much of a concern, keep all the receipts for the parts you use for the service.
Receipts with dates on them that can match up to the detail you put in your service book is going to be worth far more than not keeping the service history at all.

like many on here, this is standard practice for me. i have sold a few cars in my time and most people have believed me at face value. i'm hopeless at selling cars 'cos i normally point out all the bad things.

my last car (bf2 wagon) and current car (fg xr6) are dime a dozen type cars so personally i think i'll keep up the service history while its under 100000km.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

As for is it worth it on resale? I think it depends how long you keep the car. If you only keep the car for 60,000 km (4 services on Ford Falcon) then it would be worth it to keep it up to date at a qualified mechanic

this is the way i'm thinking.

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

......

some very general comments there. the opposite is also true. some independants rank well below some factory dealers. why tarnish them all with the same brush.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by naddis01

So you would buy a car that hadn't had an oil change for 45000km? It had missed the 30000km and 45000km services so the oil hadn't been changed between 15000km and 60000km. Or should I say the books weren't filled out.

Why bother going to the expense and hassle of checking it out further when there are so many cars available for sale? They were both VE Commodores (07 and 08 models with very similar km) which aren't exactly thin on the ground.

Yeah on the popular makes/models your choice is very broad when looking at 2nd hand cars
Theres just to many factors to the OPs question in general
Is the car in question a popular make,refer to the above
Is it a collector car

Then theres the many issues in this thread
Car yards on a trade do they really care when they purchase
(although most use this as a leverage when resell)
Will you get the additional service costs back when you sell

As for the dealer Vs independant services
I think that on its own warrants its own thread
My inlaw just got her car serviced
The washer bottle had no water, matter of fact it doesnt work , they never told her
Her radiator was advised it would need replacing soon as it leaks
(It has a 6" crack in the top tank)
Soon ,more like now
She is over 70 and uses her car daily
Dont get me started on ford factory services

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by prydey

i think once a car gets over a certain age or mileage or price, it becomes less of a concern.

most cars less than 5 years old and under 100000km, and north of $15-20k, i've found most people will prefer to see a full service history. i've found most are prepared to pay a small premium for this.

this thread has shown that the attitude of enthusiasts can be quite different, but like it or not, we are a minority.

I think that sums the situation up very well.

[roberts]

dealerships stay in business because they have a service department.
If you like the idea of buying a brand new car site unseen off the internet with no local dearlership to carry out any warranty repaires that might pop up.
Then burning the dealership has you on the right track,I think the majority of consumers understand this. You will always find that people that dont buy brand new cars are people that go on about servicing cars them selves, and how much of a rip off dealerships service's are, but these same people look for full service history from the previous owner, because lets face it they want the most value for the least price.

Let me put it this way a real world prospective, you ring up the dealership and get a price for the missus taxi, things are tight and you just cant afford it, but that oil light keeps coming on and the missus is on your back about needing a reliable car (the age old being a good provider thought start coming into your head) so you think I will do it my self this sunday, you go to repco get the bare minimum and plan you sunday to get your hands dirty, the footy is on the saturday night and your mates come around with a slab, waking up late with a hang over on sunday the missus is looking at with that get to the garage and service my car look, you drop the fat and spin on a new filter, you forget the washer bottle, CBF rotating the wheels so no checking any brakes because hey the more you find the more work you have to do. You come back in an hour later throw her the keys and say DONE im going back to bed.
How well has her car been serviced? week later she has a car accident seriously injuring her and your children on the way to school, probable cause worn front tyres and worn out front pads that just didnt pull her up when that merc driver slammed on his brakes.
What has it cost you?
Burnt ego, insurance goes up, kids in hospital, insurance exess, medical bills and so on.
Now what if you could go back in time and blame the whole thing on a business that you paid to do the job correctly, Joeblows auto keeps bad records and says who are you. The dealership has a duty of care and would have put the best tyres on the front, rang you and said the front brake are unroadworthy and recommend be changed, so atleat you and the missus knew that she was driving a death trap

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by roberts

dealerships stay in business because they have a service department.
If you like the idea of buying a brand new car site unseen off the internet with no local dearlership to carry out any warranty repaires that might pop up.
Then burning the dealership has you on the right track,I think the majority of consumers understand this. You will always find that people that dont buy brand new cars are people that go on about servicing cars them selves, and how much of a rip off dealerships service's are, but these same people look for full service history from the previous owner, because lets face it they want the most value for the least price.

Let me put it this way a real world prospective, you ring up the dealership and get a price for the missus taxi, things are tight and you just cant afford it, but that oil light keeps coming on and the missus is on your back about needing a reliable car (the age old being a good provider thought start coming into your head) so you think I will do it my self this sunday, you go to repco get the bare minimum and plan you sunday to get your hands dirty, the footy is on the saturday night and your mates come around with a slab, waking up late with a hang over on sunday the missus is looking at with that get to the garage and service my car look, you drop the fat and spin on a new filter, you forget the washer bottle, CBF rotating the wheels so no checking any brakes because hey the more you find the more work you have to do. You come back in an hour later throw her the keys and say DONE im going back to bed.
How well has her car been serviced? week later she has a car accident seriously injuring her and your children on the way to school, probable cause worn front tyres and worn out front pads that just didnt pull her up when that merc driver slammed on his brakes.
What has it cost you?
Burnt ego, insurance goes up, kids in hospital, insurance exess, medical bills and so on.
Now what if you could go back in time and blame the whole thing on a business that you paid to do the job correctly, Joeblows auto keeps bad records and says who are you. The dealership has a duty of care and would have put the best tyres on the front, rang you and said the front brake are unroadworthy and recommend be changed, so atleat you and the missus knew that she was driving a death trap

A possible scenario and one that happens. The flip side of that coin is as follows.

You know you are going for a play in the hills in the GT on the weekend and it needs a service. You drop it into your favoured dealer for a service and knowing that the brakes have been in a long time you specifically mention it to the service advisor and he notes on the work sheet "check, report and replace brakes as required". You pick the car up that afternoon and you note that on the report it states that both front and rear brakes are ok. So you think cool, off to play. Whilst playing you come down a hill, brake for the corner and hear the most god awful sound of metal on metal. The brakes are almost non existent but you manage to pull it up. You inspect your car and can plainly see the damage to the front rotors. So after a tow truck drops you off at home you pull the front wheels off to find there is not a scrap of friction material on the front pads, 3 days after a dealer service centre said they were good for another 15,000 km until the next service.

Your scenario may be real, it may be a hypothetical but mine is real, it happened to me. Yes there are many crappy home services but I assure your there are many crappy dealer services as well, I personally have quite an impressive list. The point is you can not draw a gross generalisation on either, each has to be treated according to its own merits. I think when it comes down to buying 2nd hand cars with considerable km's on them, the service history is important but not as important as a detailed mechanical inspection. Personally I would prefer a well maintained, home serviced vehicle that presents well on a detailed inspection over a vehicle that has had dealer servicing but has faults on a mechanical inspection.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

A possible scenario and one that happens. The flip side of that coin is as follows.

You know you are going for a play in the hills in the GT on the weekend and it needs a service. You drop it into your favoured dealer for a service and knowing that the brakes have been in a long time you specifically mention it to the service advisor and he notes on the work sheet "check, report and replace brakes as required". You pick the car up that afternoon and you note that on the report it states that both front and rear brakes are ok. So you think cool, off to play. Whilst playing you come down a hill, brake for the corner and hear the most god awful sound of metal on metal. The brakes are almost non existent but you manage to pull it up. You inspect your car and can plainly see the damage to the front rotors. So after a tow truck drops you off at home you pull the front wheels off to find there is not a scrap of friction material on the front pads, 3 days after a dealer service centre said they were good for another 15,000 km until the next service.

Your scenario may be real, it may be a hypothetical but mine is real, it happened to me. Yes there are many crappy home services but I assure your there are many crappy dealer services as well, I personally have quite an impressive list. The point is you can not draw a gross generalisation on either, each has to be treated according to its own merits. I think when it comes down to buying 2nd hand cars with considerable km's on them, the service history is important but not as important as a detailed mechanical inspection. Personally I would prefer a well maintained, home serviced vehicle that presents well on a detailed inspection over a vehicle that has had dealer servicing but has faults on a mechanical inspection.

nice one, I think telling someone that they have 15,000kms on brakes was a mistake, thats like telling them that they have 700 kms to go on tank of fuel not knowing how they drive they car or where the car will be driven how could they guess this or saying you have 10,000km left on your rear tyes then the driver goes out and does burnt outs and wonder why the tyres didnt get 10,000. I suspect you know better.

[geckoGT]

Not going to discuss this too much as it is off topic but look at it this way, the car was serviced, the brakes were inspected and marked as ok. By doing that the tech is stating that the brakes have at least enough friction material to make it to the next service interval which is in 15,000 km time. 3 days later the pads are metal on metal. Those pads must have at least been low enough to warrant a notification that they were low and will need replacing soon. Consider this, they did not even need to call, they could have just replaced them as I had already given them authority to do so when I dropped the car off.

[nstg8a]

i would choose the properly stamped book car if both cars were identical, in price and condition, but i dont think i would pay a premium for that history. i would tend to trust my own knowledge, and gut instincts when checking out the car.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Not going to discuss this too much as it is off topic but look at it this way, the car was serviced, the brakes were inspected and marked as ok. By doing that the tech is stating that the brakes have at least enough friction material to make it to the next service interval which is in 15,000 km time. 3 days later the pads are metal on metal. Those pads must have at least been low enough to warrant a notification that they were low and will need replacing soon. Consider this, they did not even need to call, they could have just replaced them as I had already given them authority to do so when I dropped the car off.

I do understand your frustration, at no time should any mechanic just replace parts without notifying the customer. This opens a can of worms to the business amusing that the owner will just pay for it when they pick it up then releasing they don't have enough money is embarrassing for everyone evolved. If your case, you wanted them done seems like lack of communication to me. back on topic.

[sudszy]

What happens when the service log intervals run out in the little book, stop at 180000km? what is it in the current ford? Generally the car is 10 year old+ but some may be looking to continue the stamped book.

Personally, reckon the best oil change you can do is the one you do yourself, where you've got the motor up to operating temp and the oil is drained hot and by varying the angle of the car on the stands/jack whatever so you get every bit of oil out of it, something tells me that isnt a priority at a dealer or indeed your local workshop.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by roberts

I do understand your frustration, at no time should any mechanic just replace parts without notifying the customer. This opens a can of worms to the business amusing that the owner will just pay for it when they pick it up then releasing they don't have enough money is embarrassing for everyone evolved. If your case, you wanted them done seems like lack of communication to me. back on topic.

You have missed my point completely. The simple fact is they did not check the brakes, if they had they would have seen they were low and advised me accordingly. Instead they just wrote down on the report that the brakes were inspected and ok. Well they were not ok, they were low and subsequently failed.

Even their own service manager agreed with me that pads that failed like that 3 days after the service could not have been at a thickness that should be reported as "ok".

All I am trying to point out in response to your scenario of dodgy home mechanics is that not all service centres are immune to dodgy operators either.

[302 XC]

Good point gecko , as always
Mite be of topic but on the ford dealer service
A ute i had years ago was bought brand spankers
It had a noise in the rear wheel
We drove the 100Ks back to the dealer with instructions to find the noise and fix
So no transport for the day we waited and waited at 5 pm a call was done
We got a lift back to said dealer
I mentioned the rear wheel noise and what was done
"No noise mate, nothin found"
I got the minister to jump in the ute , with the head mechanic standing beside me , she drove not 10 foot
There was an awful squeele from the rear
Now it was there to be fixed, they didnt even look at it ,nothin
Now we had to drive 100Ks back home
The idiot mechanic reply was , youll have to bring it back and not to drive far !!!
We ended up back a week later, they wouldnt look at the issue until, get this ford aproved the repair
But they didnt know the issue to do the repair
After just about rippn his and the managers head of we went to another ford service dealer
They had the car not 3 hours, all paid by ford
Problem assessed, rear wheel bearings shagged,parts ordered, car booked in in 3 days time for the bearing fitment
So here is a brand new ute with not even its first 10,000 service and its in getting new wheel bearings

So to say authorised dealers are better than others
Id safely say there are good service personel and shonkies

[roberts]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Good point gecko , as always
Mite be of topic but on the ford dealer service
A ute i had years ago was bought brand spankers
It had a noise in the rear wheel
We drove the 100Ks back to the dealer with instructions to find the noise and fix
So no transport for the day we waited and waited at 5 pm a call was done
We got a lift back to said dealer
I mentioned the rear wheel noise and what was done
"No noise mate, nothin found"
I got the minister to jump in the ute , with the head mechanic standing beside me , she drove not 10 foot
There was an awful squeele from the rear
Now it was there to be fixed, they didnt even look at it ,nothin
Now we had to drive 100Ks back home
The idiot mechanic reply was , youll have to bring it back and not to drive far !!!
We ended up back a week later, they wouldnt look at the issue until, get this ford aproved the repair
But they didnt know the issue to do the repair
After just about rippn his and the managers head of we went to another ford service dealer
They had the car not 3 hours, all paid by ford
Problem assessed, rear wheel bearings shagged,parts ordered, car booked in in 3 days time for the bearing fitment
So here is a brand new ute with not even its first 10,000 service and its in getting new wheel bearings

So to say authorised dealers are better than others
Id safely say there are good service personel and shonkies

heres a handy tip, if you every have a concern like that , drop your car off at 8.00am say you need it back by 9.00am. Your car will be looked at first thing by a fresh tech, when your called at 9.00 and told it couldn't be heard go down and drive it with the foreman, if heard it will be fixed that day. If you drop it off and say call me when its done or Ill be back at 5.00 your car will most likley be looked at 5mins before knock off depending how much other work was in on the day you take it in, the tech will be tied from working on upteen different cars that day, and will miss things. Simple human nature.

[302 XC]

The car was in getting other things fixed also
It was more their attitude i didnt like
100Ks to get there, 100Ks home
We done over 1,000Ks a week in the first 2 months
It was bought to rack the Ks up,not the normal 15K a year scenario
We needed the car to see customers
Then to be told "Dont drive it far " ???
The local corner store is just under 30K round trip
The local servo is just under 40K round trip
The local shoppin centre is just under an hour away
Some customers are hours away
The mobile phone coverage out here is hit and miss
Car breaks down , start walking
At what point should i not drive it far ???
Gettin the milk or bread,getting fuel,getting the groceries,or heavens forbid getting on the road to earn a livin
It wasnt a 5K clunker,it was a ute that cost over 40K

It was great to hear that the head mechanic got the sack , and i wasnt the only paying customer to complain about the dealer and their service department

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by roberts

heres a handy tip, if you every have a concern like that , drop your car off at 8.00am say you need it back by 9.00am.

There is NO business that works on 1 hour turn around
Especially when it comes to dealer servicing

Most of the techos are still sipping coffee or drinking their can of "V"

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

There is no difference between a service history being supplied by an owner who is a qualified mechanic, and a workshop that puts a stamp on the paper if you keep all the paperwork and receipts as you have listed.

Why should it be any different for any price bracket?

Couldnt care if a mech owned a car i was looking to buy, service history at a reputable dealer/service dept will always win in my eyes, if it hasnt got it ill keep looking.
My XR5 has always been serviced at Ford (only had POM and 15k but) but it wont be going back there, now to be serviced by a workshop that is run by my former service mgr at said ford dealer.
That said i dont think a home serviced car is worth any less, it just might be harder to sell.
New Ford service manuals though will have a section ONLY the dealer can stamp no one else will be able to, not sure when it will start though.

[EB#]

For what it's worth I have a log book full of stamps and all service/repair
records on the car as well. All documents are kept in a simple file
with a summary page at the front.

Thus, it's pretty easy to see the history of the car at a glance.....
All work is carried out by either my mechanic or myself and a mechanic mate.
None of the services are carried out at my local Ford dealer.
https://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/data/2937/DSC06624.jpg[/IMG]

The car dealer where I traded my previous car, with a file like this, seemed
to quite like the fact that I kept detailed records.

[Fiesta_Man69]

I'm presuming this is the same member roberts who posted falicies on the thread "Good dealer service around?" on the Fiesta section of this forum?

This member, who eventually admitted he worked for Ford, tried to convince members that:

1. Using ryco filters, or any other non Ford dealership part, voids the factory warranty offered by Ford.

2. That the resale value is diminished unless you get the car serviced at a Ford dealership - an independent mechanic working on your car apparently makes it worth far less....

3. Courtesy cars were free. Cars borrowed from Ford are charged at a rate of between $50-$65 per day. To claim they are part of a Ford service is misleading.

4. Taking a car to an independent means you miss out on software updates because they are only available at Ford. Not true. I rung up my local dealership, got a PCM update for free before taking the car to my regular mechanic for a service.

Several members on this thread pointed out the mistruths roberts was deliberately making to benefit his employment: ie if most customers took their cars to independent workshops he'd be unemployed...

roberts didn't have the gumption to respond....

I suggest anyone conversing with him on here read his posts in the Fiesta section.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, true, but deliberately telling lies to mislead members who are genuinely seeking advice on this forum is not on.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

4. Taking a car to an independent means you miss out on software updates because they are only available at Ford. Not true. I rung up my local dealership, got a PCM update for free before taking the car to my regular mechanic for a service.

.

so you still took your car to a dealer to get the pcm updated? i may agree with all your other points, but fact is, there is a couple of things that only a dealer can do, mainly relating to newer cars.

like you say, this still doesn't mean you have to get them to do the service. you can simply get them to do the bits only they can do.


a lot of people are looking at this from the point of view of what they do to their own car. also, if you buy a car privately, you can chat to previous owner and get a folder full of receipts. what if you are looking at a car at a caryard? no previous owner to chat to, no folder of receipts etc. if a car has a service history (doesn't mean just dealer) you will feel better about it than if it doesn't.

i guess the other thing is, this theory doesn't really apply to rarer cars. this is more applicable to mainstream models that are in plentiful supply. if you're looking for a ve commo or fg falcon, and one doesn't have a full book of stamps, unless there is something else about the car you really want, there is no real need to keep looking as there are so many others available.

[TURBOTAXI]

With my cars that have 250k plus on them when I have finished with them dealer servicing is not worth a pinch of excrement. The overall condition of the car, the smell and colour of the fluids, the smoothness at idle and the power it can make at WOT tell a much better story about the car. I do my own servicing with better fluids than the dealers use. Yes, I have the odd mistake or problem, but overall I am financially better off and my car is better off.

[PHANTMXR6]

prydey, one thing I forgot to take into account, is geographical location.

Irrelevant of service history, you are going to get more for your car in a lower populated area.

I'm lucky enough to put a higher price on any vehicle I try and sell due to a population of approx 7000 people.
Local dealers like to play the same game.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

prydey, one thing I forgot to take into account, is geographical location.

Irrelevant of service history, you are going to get more for your car in a lower populated area.

I'm lucky enough to put a higher price on any vehicle I try and sell due to a population of approx 7000 people.
Local dealers like to play the same game.

yep, supply v demand. one of the reasons i've bought many cars from the east coast. the larger volume of cars keeps the prices lower than the same car in adelaide.