P-plate restrictions

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by Ibo

There are a few exemptions for turbocharged cars which are legal for p platers (smart cars ect, hopefully the new EB4 will fall under this category)

The Mondeo EcoBoost is P-plate approved (in Queensland at least). I don't see why the Falcon would be any different.

[KRL-94]

dont get me wrong, i like the exotic cars, but an 18yo getting approval for $130K? very fat chance if i have to tell them what its for. if i buy that, i might aswell hand my licence in and say "here fellas, wont be needing this anymore"

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by KRL-94

i heard of mates being pulled up and having their car put on a dyno and its come at 200kw.

I'd be questioning the storyteller. Was it a "My mates mate got booked" story?

Questions like, it was very convenient that he got booked at or very near a Dyno shop.

Who paid for the Dyno.

Did he keep the printout so he can brag how powerful his car is.

[BAFrod]

Originally Posted by |Nate

So I return once more to my original statement, unless you live in W.A , just buy a nice daily until you're off your P's, then go nuts!

Don't forget Tassie!!

It's not uncommon there for WRX's, Skyline GT-R's and old Clubsports to have p plates showing.

Incredibly stupid, yes, but not illegal!

[krzysiek]

From what I know, on your P Plates:

- No turbos
- No 8 cyclinder cars
- No performance mods at all
- Can get exception to drive any car (turbo + 8 cylinder included) if under 125KW/ton (based on manufacturer specs.)
- KW is based on manufacturer specs. and not an independent dyno test you run. They need to keep the scale fair and we all know there is a good % power loss between flywheel and wheels

Getting around the laws is a bit risky. Even if you evade police, if one day you cause an accident and the insurance company digs up you were driving a restricted car, you may have a nasty surprise waiting.

I just turned 21, and unfortunately because of the new laws, I have to wait till 22 before getting my full license. Really sucks, as I would have a world of opportunities for a new car right about now!

[2011G6E]

Never actually heard of the cops putting a car over and putting in on a dyno test...they usually just have a list of vehicles you can't drive.

[z80]

Originally Posted by krzysiek

From what I know, on your P Plates:

- No turbos
- No 8 cyclinder cars
- No performance mods at all
- Can get exception to drive any car (turbo + 8 cylinder included) if under 125KW/ton (based on manufacturer specs.)
- KW is based on manufacturer specs. and not an independent dyno test you run. They need to keep the scale fair and we all know there is a good % power loss between flywheel and wheels

Getting around the laws is a bit risky. Even if you evade police, if one day you cause an accident and the insurance company digs up you were driving a restricted car, you may have a nasty surprise waiting.

I just turned 21, and unfortunately because of the new laws, I have to wait till 22 before getting my full license. Really sucks, as I would have a world of opportunities for a new car right about now!

I have a 19 year old son on red P plates in Victoria.

He can drive any of our cars, whether V8, supercharged or turbo.

They are all in the name of the family business and it is legal for him to drive any company car as long as the employer gives you no option.

A letterhead and 3 minutes with Microsoft word, put it in the glovebox and the problem solved.

[KRL-94]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'd be questioning the storyteller. Was it a "My mates mate got booked" story?

Questions like, it was very convenient that he got booked at or very near a Dyno shop.

Who paid for the Dyno.

Did he keep the printout so he can brag how powerful his car is.

sorry, did i not say dyno truck? dont know who paid the dyno, but i think he might still have the sheet. and for who ever said that a NON TURBO DIESEL V8 can be driven on p-plate, sorry to say, my best mate got pulled up yesterday and booked for driving a HIGH POWERED VEHICLE. its a 2009/2010 V8 Diesel landcruiser ute. he did nothing wrong the whole time i was in the car. copper was in a very good mood. Go Figure?

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by z80

I have a 19 year old son on red P plates in Victoria.

He can drive any of our cars, whether V8, supercharged or turbo.

They are all in the name of the family business and it is legal for him to drive any company car as long as the employer gives you no option.

A letterhead and 3 minutes with Microsoft word, put it in the glovebox and the problem solved.

Firstly, the legal restriction of high powered vehicle to a 19-yo is hardly a "problem" to be "solved".

Secondly, whoever gave you that legal advice didn't give you the whole story. In Victoria, it has to not only be at the request of the employer, but the use of the vehicle also has to be "in the course of employment".

If your son gets pulled up at 4am, coming out of the maccas drive-through, with 4 mates in the car with the stamps of 4 clubs he's been to that night on the back of his hand - he's going to have some explaining to do.

http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Do...E/09-095sr.pdfSection 57(2)(a)(i)

A good mate of mine runs an aircon business and had his nephew working for him running around in a XR6T ute. Got pulled over in a similar scenario as above. Got a ticket. They took it to court at the start of december....tried to argue he was "on call" and needed the vehicle with him. They still lost.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by z80

I have a 19 year old son on red P plates in Victoria.

He can drive any of our cars, whether V8, supercharged or turbo.

They are all in the name of the family business and it is legal for him to drive any company car as long as the employer gives you no option.

A letterhead and 3 minutes with Microsoft word, put it in the glovebox and the problem solved.

Following on from the legal implication here, how about having a good think about what's morally right for your son? I know we all like to try and get one over the law, but these restrictions are put in place for your son's sake, as he's a novice driver... not for any other reason. I'd hate to think how you might feel if he came unstuck driving one of the aforementioned cars, God forbid.

[KRL-94]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Following on from the legal implication here, how about having a good think about what's morally right for your son? I know we all like to try and get one over the law, but these restrictions are put in place for your son's sake, as he's a novice driver... not for any other reason. I'd hate to think how you might feel if he came unstuck driving one of the aforementioned cars, God forbid.

age has nothing to do with it. experience is the key. most of my log book entries are with a V8, or turbo 6, and i've been driving on road since i was 16, and i started driving at age 8. nearly 10 years, numerous cars, numerous conditions. im not a perfect driver, but responisiblity on and off road is what saves lives. you never know what the car in front is going to do in the split second the you change lanes, or enter a road, or if that the vehilce you are driving is even road worthy. every car will break at some point. we just dont know when.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Firstly, the legal restriction of high powered vehicle to a 19-yo is hardly a "problem" to be "solved".

Secondly, whoever gave you that legal advice didn't give you the whole story. In Victoria, it has to not only be at the request of the employer, but the use of the vehicle also has to be "in the course of employment".

If your son gets pulled up at 4am, coming out of the maccas drive-through, with 4 mates in the car with the stamps of 4 clubs he's been to that night on the back of his hand - he's going to have some explaining to do.

.

Yeah it is a problem to be solved.

Read my post, we don't have any low powered cars for him to drive.

Your advice ignored for a variety of reasons....mostly because quoting a car load of mates in a maccas car park is of course going to never get up in court.

We all know that P platers are limited to one passenger, so why are you posting that emotively irrelevant example?

[KRL-94]

Originally Posted by z80

We all know that P platers are limited to one passenger, so why are you posting that emotively irrelevant example?

1) z80, you have a point
2) because it happens all the time. coppers up here are always booking p-platers for it.

[babyf6]

Originally Posted by Torment47

as far as im aware NO v8's, supercharged or turbo's are alloud for p platers.

In QLD i think you can get turbo diesels on your p's, not quite sure though, have a look on the website

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by z80

Yeah it is a problem to be solved.

Read my post, we don't have any low powered cars for him to drive.

Which is fine and why the law has an exemption in place. However that doesn't mean your son can drive the car where, and wherever he wants. I have no idea what your business is, or does, but he can only drive the vehicle if he is doing so "in course of his employment". Your "letter in the glovebox" doesn't do anything to nullify this fact.

Originally Posted by z80

Your advice ignored for a variety of reasons....mostly because quoting a car load of mates in a maccas car park is of course going to never get up in court.

We all know that P platers are limited to one passenger, so why are you posting that emotively irrelevant example?

I never said anything about passenger restrictions - which is a totally separate issue. Firstly, you're wrong. "P platers" are not limited to one passenger. Red P platers are. Green P platers have no such restriction.

Secondly, My quote about 4 mates being in the car was simply a hypothetical to show that your "business" exemption is situational and that your son can't drive a restricted vehicle all the time just because the vehicle is registered to a company and he has a letter from his employer in the glove box. Getting pulled over with his mates in the car (or mate, singular, the amount is irrelevant) when clearly not using the car for "business purposes" will have him needing to explain himself to the plod.

I linked the legislation for you to read in my first reply but it's even on the Vicroads website, dumbed down in plain english.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...edvehicles.htm

Automatic Exemption

The Road Safety (Drivers) Regulations 2009, automatically exempt a probationary driver, from the probationary prohibited vehicle restrictions, who is driving the vehicle in the course of his or her employment and at his or her employer’s request or is self employed and an Australian Business Number (ABN) is in force in relation to the person's business. No exemption document is required from VicRoads in these circumstances. However, the onus is on the driver to provide evidence to the police if requested.

A person is not permitted to drive the vehicle at any time for social reasons or reasons unrelated to work. In these cases the onus is upon the driver to provide evidence to the police that his or her driving is work connected.

A member of the police force who is the holder of a probationary car licence and the holder of an approved Driver Certificate Endorsement for a vehicle of that class is authorised to drive a probationary prohibited vehicle in the course of duty. No exemption document is required from VicRoads.

Going to ignore my advice now?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by KRL-94

sorry, did i not say dyno truck?

I must have been living under a rock for longer than I thought as I've never heard of a 'Dyno Truck' let alone Police using one.

[|Nate]

Never heard of that, nor seen that either.
Unless it's mixed up with the thing NSW police were doing on ACA/TT where they took the cars back to a garage and did many tests on them?

[Auslandau]

Can say right now that no Dyno is used as a measure of horse power by the police to determine what a P plater is driving.

Put it this way ...... a speed camera is calibrated to an inch of their lives ...... dyno machines has way too many variables including weather which determines the final figure for starters. Unless the dyno is calibrated constantly, the same buttons are pushed by the user and humidity and temp is all taken into account then it could be a possibility. It can't happen ...... especially if it was a mobile one. I can go to 2 dyno's on the same day and get a variance of 30 plus Rwkw's at a minimum. There is a thing called a happy dyno! Further more ....... yes they can give you an indication of what HP you have but is used as a tuning tool and can give you an indication what your engine is on that day but NOT a be all and end all figure.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by KRL-94

age has nothing to do with it. experience is the key.

Many teens are not responsible for their actions and take far too many risks without considering consequences, experienced or not. I realise this isn't exclusive to 'P' plate drivers, but it's a larger %, hence the law.

+ Male drivers cause FAR more deaths on the roads than females, yet most would say males are generally more experienced and 'better' drivers technically. Well, this proves my point.

Originally Posted by KRL-94

most of my log book entries are with a V8, or turbo 6, and i've been driving on road since i was 16, and i started driving at age 8. nearly 10 years, numerous cars, numerous conditions.

But I'm sure you've never had to handle the car under heavy acceleration, which is a totally different kettle of fish in a powerful car. If you have I'd suggest your trainer isn't doing the right thing by you.

Plenty of good drivers come unstuck on the road mate. Not that putting around in a V8 or turbo 6 as an 'L' plater makes you experienced or a good driver anyway.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Which is fine and why the law has an exemption in place. However that doesn't mean your son can drive the car where, and wherever he wants. I have no idea what your business is, or does, but he can only drive the vehicle if he is doing so "in course of his employment". Your "letter in the glovebox" doesn't do anything to nullify this fact.?

Since you are putting words in my mouth, so to speak, I will ignore your erroneous advice.

Originally Posted by Dave3911

I never said anything about passenger restrictions - which is a totally separate issue. Firstly, you're wrong. "P platers" are not limited to one passenger. Red P platers are. Green P platers have no such restriction.
?

Oh really? You quote a legal example of a P plater at maccas with a car full of mates whose explanation gets rejected by a magistrate and then attempt to back pedal that it wasn't what you said?

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Secondly, My quote about 4 mates being in the car was simply a hypothetical to show that your "business" exemption is situational
?

Huh? How in the hell did you link one from another?

Originally Posted by Dave3911

and that your son can't drive a restricted vehicle all the time just because the vehicle is registered to a company and he has a letter from his employer in the glove box. ?

So...who said anything about him driving it all the time?

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Getting pulled over with his mates in the car (or mate, singular, the amount is irrelevant) when clearly not using the car for "business purposes" will have him needing to explain himself to the plod. ?

that's why said to have the employers' letter in the glovebox.

Originally Posted by Dave3911

I linked the legislation for you to read in my first reply but it's even on the Vicroads website, dumbed down in plain english. ?

If your addenda is to post links substantiating your case that's fine, but I don't need them. I went to the police station for advice.

(that's why the letter is in the glovebox.)

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Going to ignore my advice now?

I have a real life situation, you have guesses and website links.

Yes I will ignore your..err..."advice".

[z80]

meh..Forget it.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by z80

So...who said anything about him driving it all the time?

Yes I will ignore your..err..."advice".

Like I said, if you're the parent and you allow it, you're the one who's responsible. The law deems he's not safe to drive those cars, if you say otherwise and he has an accident, that's 100% on your shoulders.

[z80]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Like I said, if you're the parent and you allow it, you're the one who's responsible. The law deems he's not safe to drive those cars, if you say otherwise and he has an accident, that's 100% on your shoulders.

Your interpretation of the law is innaccurate.

He has the appropriate exemption...the law says it is safe for him to drive it.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by z80

Your interpretation of the law is innaccurate.

He has the appropriate exemption.

What you've found is possibly a loophole in the law, but that's is beside the point. If you think what you're doing is right, go ahead. Fact is, young drivers are more likely to die in high powered cars, which is why they are told not to drive them. I hope your son is more responsible than yourself... for his sake.

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by z80

Since you are putting words in my mouth, so to speak, I will ignore your erroneous advice.

No "words" have been put into your mouth at all. Everything has been direct quoted. My initial post contains your post in it's entirety in which you state that your son "can drive any of our cars, whether V8, supercharged or turbo." and that "They are all in the name of the family business and it is legal for him to drive any company car as long as the employer gives you no option. A letterhead and 3 minutes with Microsoft word, put it in the glovebox and the problem solved."

Now, I concede your never said that he drive's the car all the time. But the implication is certainly there and you certainly never said he could only drive it for business purposes. So why not clear up the confusion. Does your son drive it for social occasions? Nipping down the shops to get some milk?

Oh really? You quote a legal example of a P plater at maccas with a car full of mates whose explanation gets rejected by a magistrate and then attempt to back pedal that it wasn't what you said?

His legal exemption for the driving of a restricted P-plate vehicle was rejected by the magistrate. I never said he was charged with a passenger restriction offence (he wasn't, as he is on Green Ps). He was charged with a restricted vehicle ticket. Also, case in point he didn't have "4" mates in the car, because he drives a ute. He had 1. I didn't realise I had to spell it out this much, but my point is it's hard to argue you are using the car "in the course of employment" if you are out at 4am, with friends in the car, obviously having been to a few clubs.

Huh? How in the hell did you link one from another?

Easily. Because you missed the point and assumed I was talking about passenger restrictions. I wasn't.

So...who said anything about him driving it all the time?

Nobody did. But you also didn't say that he didn't and boldly stated to the entire forum. "3 minutes with Microsoft word, put it in the glovebox and the problem solved.".

As above, does he, or does he not drive it all the time?

that's why said to have the employers' letter in the glovebox.

The letter in the glovebox does absolutely nothing to change the fact that your son can only use the car "in the course of his employment".

If your addenda is to post links substantiating your case that's fine, but I don't need them. I went to the police station for advice.

(that's why the letter is in the glovebox.)

So, the information on the Vicroads website AND the legislation on the government website is incorrect? Are you serious. Spoke with two of the coppers at work about this (I am a Victoria Police dispatcher, by the way) and they confirm what the website says.

I have a real life situation, you have guesses and website links.

Yes I will ignore your..err..."advice".

You have word of mouth from one policeman. The official government website's are more likely to be correct. Good luck to you.

[z80]

Originally Posted by martyk54

What you've found is possibly a loophole in the law, but that's is beside the point. If you think what you're doing is right, go ahead. Fact is, young drivers are more likely to die in high powered cars, which is why they are told not to drive them. I hope your son is more responsible than yourself... for his sake.

Aww shucks, any employer who gets an exemption for a P plater according to the letter of the law is somehow an irresponsible parent...

Thanks for the personal insult.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Now, I concede your never said that he drive's the car all the time. But the implication is certainly there....

Now we get to the crux....it's all in your imagination.

Originally Posted by Dave3911

and you certainly never said he could only drive it for business purposes. So why not clear up the confusion. Does your son drive it for social occasions? Nipping down the shops to get some milk? .

Did I say it wasn't for business purposes?
Did I say they were all company cars?

Only ask for common sense answers please.

Originally Posted by Dave3911

His legal exemption for the driving of a restricted P-plate vehicle was rejected by the magistrate. I never said he was charged with a passenger restriction offence (he wasn't, as he is on Green Ps). He was charged with a restricted vehicle ticket. Also, case in point he didn't have "4" mates in the car, because he drives a ute. He had 1. I didn't realise I had to spell it out this much, but my point is it's hard to argue you are using the car "in the course of employment" if you are out at 4am, with friends in the car, obviously having been to a few clubs. .

So you accuse me of not volunteering enough detail yet it's okay for you to do so?

How nice....

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Easily. Because you missed the point and assumed I was talking about passenger restrictions. I wasn't. .

Of course...you simply wanted to emphasise it with melodrama...I get it now.

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Nobody did. But you also didn't say that he didn't and boldly stated to the entire forum. "3 minutes with Microsoft word, put it in the glovebox and the problem solved.". .

That's what the police Seargant instructed me to do.
I believe he outranks you...yes?

Originally Posted by Dave3911

As above, does he, or does he not drive it all the time? .

How many ways will you ask the same question Mr Despatcher?

Originally Posted by Dave3911

The letter in the glovebox does absolutely nothing to change the fact that your son can only use the car "in the course of his employment"..

Please don't bore me with repetitive facts.

Originally Posted by Dave3911

So, the information on the Vicroads website AND the legislation on the government website is incorrect? Are you serious. Spoke with two of the coppers at work about this (I am a Victoria Police dispatcher, by the way) and they confirm what the website says..

Is there a question in here somewhere?

Or did you just want to impress me that you work in a call center?

Originally Posted by Dave3911

You have word of mouth from one policeman. The official government website's are more likely to be correct. Good luck to you.

He outranks you, and that's better advice than you have given people in this thread.


FACT: can a "P" plater drive a high powered car, yes or no?

Answer: YES

[Dave3911]

Did I say it wasn't for business purposes?

No, you didn't. You also didn't say it was either. Hence my question.

Did I say they were all company cars?

Yup.

He can drive any of our cars, whether V8, supercharged or turbo.

They are all in the name of the family business and it is legal for him to drive any company car as long as the employer gives you no option.

Only ask for common sense answers please.

Asked and given. More than you have done.

So you accuse me of not volunteering enough detail yet it's okay for you to
do so?

How nice....

I thought it was obvious. I've already apologised for it not being.

Of course...you simply wanted to emphasise it with melodrama...I get it now.

What melodrama?

That's what the police Seargant instructed me to do.
I believe he outranks you...yes?

In order for someone to "outrank" me, I'd have to be a member of Victoria Police. I am not. Funnily enough, the two people I spoke to also hold the rank of Sergeant, I don't see how it's relevant though.

How many ways will you ask the same question Mr Despatcher?

Still waiting on an answer.

Please don't bore me with repetitive facts.

So answer the question then.

Is there a question in here somewhere?

Or did you just want to impress me that you work in a call center?

Yes there is a question. I asked you if the information contained on the Vicroads website, or the copy of the Road Rules (Drivers) Regulations that I linked, is incorrect. So is it?

Not trying to impress anyone. Just added in an explanation as to how I spoke with police. I work along side police every day I go in to work. Give's me more access to 'the boys in blue' than your average joe. Just explaining where I am coming from. No chip on this shoulder.

He outranks you, and that's better advice than you have given people in this thread.

He doesn't "outrank" the two people I spoke to today. Nor is his information inline with that on the Vicroads website. If you chose to ignore all that, sobeit.

FACT: can a "P" plater drive a high powered car, yes or no?

Answer: YES

Answer: Yes. As long as they meet the requirements set out in legislation.

I have never said your son can't drive the car. I have said he can't drive it for anything that isn't work related.

So why don't you answer the question, yes or no. Does he drive the car for non work related purposes?

[wulos]

This subject has been done to death.
The restrictions(and exemptions) are quite clear and concise. If you are in ANY doubt then you should be seeking clarification from either the police, or the motor registry in your state, rather then arguing with the bush lawyers here on AFF(Heaven gotbid, some of those bush lawyers may actually be correct!!)
Time to move on people..