Back in the day what car would you buy

[Cav]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

200 6 cyl ?

Boy forking out for ER 70 Tyres in 1972 would of stung ya.

I remember people bagging people for forking out for such tyres back in the day and steel belt only became popular around 1976 say in general as most were running on rags that I remember.

My 90yo mate is still stuck in the 1960's with tyres as the only point he has is mileage you get out of them and nothing other is of interest to him, he claims that the more the tyre weighs the more rubber is in them thus a better tyre. that I am sure was correct back in 1930's to early 60's, so he argued that I was wrong and he went to a tyre bloke that knows his stuff and spun his line to him and this bloke flew off the rocker and gave him back both barrels yelling that he had no idea what he was talking about.

Wash ya mouth out Mick

250 cubic inch.

And the tyres were Aquajets which are now regarded as rubbish, but compared to skinny tyres back in the day they were an improvement.

There were some changes in late XYs.

My mirrors looked like this



The engine internals were also varied and Ford placed a blue stip across the top of the motor to differentiate from other XY 250s.

I had the car for about 6 years and traded it on an XC Falcon 500 3 speed manual fitted with bucket seats in 1978 when the Govmint reduced the sales tax on new cars.

I loved XCs so much that two cars later (after a 2 litre Escort and XB Fairmont, I had an XC 302 V8 Fairmont 4 speed manual with houndstooth upholstery.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Was that one of those Prince (Nissan) Skylnes? If so I thought they ran triple Weber 42,s

Bingo...quite possibly 42's or 40's.......................but it was a long time ago to remember

[arronm]

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by snap0964

A mate of mine years ago made up a triple SU setup for his HT GTS 186S Monaro - the thing really went well, can't remember how he set up the carbies - each had it's own butterfly adjustment - he got the stock manifold, milled off the end, tigged on an alloy section, bored out the holes for the carbies, added stud mounts, etc - great workmanship.
The factory XU-1's had triple Stromberg CD's IIRC, they were very similar to SU's.
Rokwiz - they were still a side draught carby.
The Bathurst cars had triple webers.

Yes I know the difference, seen many a Stromberg CD but I still prefer the normal old Holden Stromberg in twin any day and as for going triple I would not use them but look at the rest like CD and SU.

I seen one dude that had only just one Webber just like the Valiants had triples on his red holden six, it had a long intake manifold for it as the Webber sat right out away from the engine.

What I believe is not so much chasing out right HP but Torque through out the range is what I look at closely on a graph and would rather go smaller on carby CFM's than go too big any day and same with a cam.

Most people back in the 70 80's were chasing HP and going to cams that were too big for a street car and creating a s box cutting corners everywhere to save money.
I was looking at improving the stock engine in the best way and then go bigger cam ect ect and not from driving a stock car to a worked s heap that the owner knew nothing truly about and would blow it up because of their ignorance and the experience left them with a bad memory's.
It was all about trying to blow others away and not being realistic with what should of been done. not to mention many got smashed up real bad or killed not to mention they did not up grade their brakes so it became a death trap.

I remember my elder brother had a stock HQ 173 and he was flat out doing 100MPH and I said turn up the next road and he hit the brakes as hard as he could and we passed the turn off with total brake fade at about 30MPH she just had no brakes at all, that was drum brakes all round for you.
I bought a XG Falcon ute in 1993 got up to 210KM/H and hit the brakes as hard as and got total brake fade at about 60KM/H and that has 4 wheel disc.
So when the asbestos was banned brake pads lost the magic of what asbestos provided, lucky most cars had disc brakes on the front by then, I can't remember the date that such was banned. but I had to find better pads for my XG and the brake shop people were total morons to talk to just brain dead.
So I had to shop around trying out different pads until I got Bendix metal king and they fixed that problem I now had brakes that were worthy of the performance of the car. but I could not get the ultimate for the XG but you could get them for the Commodores.
I thought that the metal king were good but the ultimate were magic in the VL Turbo at 210KM/H you hit the brakes and wipe that speed off in no time back to 100KM/H they are that safe that it was like magic, now most people would not have an idea of how great a stopping power that such can make. 2 seconds may be I would think from 210 to 100KMH, 6 wraps is the noise of the rotors that they make I think.
So if you drive fast they were the best insurance policy you can get by far.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Cav

Wash ya mouth out Mick

250 cubic inch.

And the tyres were Aquajets which are now regarded as rubbish, but compared to skinny tyres back in the day they were an improvement.

There were some changes in late XYs.

My mirrors looked like this

image

The engine internals were also varied and Ford placed a blue stip across the top of the motor to differentiate from other XY 250s.

I had the car for about 6 years and traded it on an XC Falcon 500 3 speed manual fitted with bucket seats in 1978 when the Govmint reduced the sales tax on new cars.

I loved XCs so much that two cars later (after a 2 litre Escort and XB Fairmont, I had an XC 302 V8 Fairmont 4 speed manual with houndstooth upholstery.

Never heard about any blue strip on the 250 or any difference in them from XY to XB Falcon, but that the F100 250 log motor was different to the Falcon one in that it had HD bearings and valve seat inserts and maybe a different cam grind to the falcon, because my dads 1976 F100 with the 250 performed real well for a 250 as I was really surprised, when he brought it home I said WTF did you get a bloody 250- 6cyl for and he said that he had driven 4 F100's with 302 V8's and that this 250 went better then all of them.
Them 250 log motors were in the F100's till mid 1978 and then they went to the X Flow 4.1L as to the ADR laws for the F100's and the Falcons got the X Flow 7 1976.

[Fed]

We used to run our triple SUs with no oil in them could that be why we never had vacuum problems?

I started with Warren Armour manifolds but finished up with a one piece Lynx manifold which was a very neat setup with little W clips linking the carbies.

My memory's a little vague now but I distinctly remember having to pull the seats down & wedging 1/4" nuts under each one to hold it in the winter because they were almost impossible to start without 'choking' them.

For a couple of years it was the cycle of life, "work on car go to beefies & brickies on Thursday night" repeat, repeat, repeat.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Never heard about any blue strip on the 250 or any difference in them from XY to XB Falcon.

If you can get a download copy of the XR-XY parts catalogue & go to page 224 it gives the details of 4000 US built 250 ci engines fitted during XY production. It also gives details on the blue stripe on the rocker cover.

Dr Terry

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

because my dads 1976 F100 with the 250 performed real well for a 250 as I was really surprised, when he brought it home I said WTF did you get a bloody 250- 6cyl for and he said that he had driven 4 F100's with 302 V8's and that this 250 went better then all of them.
Them 250 log motors were in the F100's till mid 1978 and then they went to the X Flow 4.1L as to the ADR laws for the F100's and the Falcons got the X Flow 7 1976.

Sure it wasn't one of those log style 300ci 6's that were available in some F trucks from that era.
My Brother had an old F truck as a horse carrier which died in the **** in Hay en route to Adelaide and when we spoke with the Ford dealer there they said it was a Canadian? 300ci and not a 250.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Fed

We used to run our triple SUs with no oil in them could that be why we never had vacuum problems?
.

Never heard of that one before, I remember they had to have auto transmission fluid in them for the pistons to work. I modified a second hand choke system for them from a wrecked double six Daimler. (V12 Jag)

As Mick states they were better for chasing torque with a mild cam. From memory I used a 28 68 cam with hyd lifters. Wasn't chasing horsepower.

Bent 8 that horse truck wasn't a Mercury by any chance.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Bent 8 that horse truck wasn't a Mercury by any chance.

Not that I remember, it was 19years ago mind you but im 99% certain it was an F truck of some description and I clearly remember the mechanic at the Hay dealership saying it was a 300ci engine.

Found this on Wiki...

'The 300 cu in (4.9 L) six was added for the F-series in 1965. It is essentially a 240 cu in (3.9 L) with a longer stroke. The two engines are nearly identical; the differences are in the rotating assembly and combustion chamber sizes in the head (The heads are interchangeable). It produced 170 hp (127 kW) (gross). The 300 became the base F-series engine in 1978 at 114 hp (85 kW) (hp number changes due to Ford switching to net power ratings in 1971). Power outputs were increased to roughly 122 hp (91 kW) during the early 1980s, before fuel injection was introduced. This became the primary engine of the line, eclipsing the 240. Unlike the Falcon engine, it featured separate intake and exhaust manifolds, which could be easily replaced with aftermarket manifolds offering the promise of even more power, through the installation of larger carburetors and a higher flowing exhaust system.'

[Tassie f100]

That would be right Bent.I had a 67 F100 which had the 240,then a 79 with a 250 x flow.Has a couple of D series tow trucks with the 300. Both the 240 and 300 used the same block and head just altered stroke.One truck got changed to a 302 Clevo which had a lot more go than the 300.The horse truck was probably an F350 with the 300/6.The injected 6 was never used in Oz but I,m pretty sure it was available in USA until,a few years ago ( maybe mid 90,s)

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

If you can get a download copy of the XR-XY parts catalogue & go to page 224 it gives the details of 4000 US built 250 ci engines fitted during XY production. It also gives details on the blue stripe on the rocker cover.



Dr Terry

Thanks Dr Terry, back in the day I thought they were from Canada.


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[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Never heard of that one before, I remember they had to have auto transmission fluid in them for the pistons to work. I modified a second hand choke system for them from a wrecked double six Daimler. (V12 Jag)

As Mick states they were better for chasing torque with a mild cam. From memory I used a 28 68 cam with hyd lifters. Wasn't chasing horsepower.

Bent 8 that horse truck wasn't a Mercury by any chance.

Singer machine oil was popular up our way for SU's as well. As simple as a carb could be those little blighters.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sure it wasn't one of those log style 300ci 6's that were available in some F trucks from that era.
My Brother had an old F truck as a horse carrier which died in the **** in Hay en route to Adelaide and when we spoke with the Ford dealer there they said it was a Canadian? 300ci and not a 250.

No it was a 250 Log head as I pulled the head off it to replace the head gasket from weeping and that where I seen the valves sitting proud because that's how they sit with seat inserts and the Falcon heads valves are flush.

The big 240 and 300 6 cyl look totally different to our 250 not to mention that they were gone by 1975 in our F100's and I am sure it was only the 4X4 up to mid 1975 that only got them engines in the end as they were imported from Canada I believe.

Australia had the 240 and 300 in 2x4 F100's before 1974 in the older body style and no Aussie 250 in them but for the new model that 1st came out in 1974 in Australia.

[GT450]

I had a 250 2v XA 4 door . Cav was correct the motor was Canadian built, it had a twin barrel carb with a water cooled manifold and extractors straight from the factory. It could hold it's own with the 302s of the day too. But if I could go back the XA GT coupe my dad had would be my choice , I spent many happy hours driving that car and just before he sold it , on it's last Bathurst trip, I hit 145mph before I had to brake for a T intersection and ran out of road. It shattered many an L34 owners dreams and my dad drove it like he stole it, even had the constabulary write him out a speeding ticket in our local waterhole way back then.
That's the thing though , all of these cars were great in their era , but on todays congested roads they would be a handful and todays laws just wouldn't let them be the fun they were intended to be, much like many of todays cars. Hey but I am an old fart and I can dream..............
GT450

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

If you can get a download copy of the XR-XY parts catalogue & go to page 224 it gives the details of 4000 US built 250 ci engines fitted during XY production. It also gives details on the blue stripe on the rocker cover.

Dr Terry

But the USA 250 Block is different to our Aussie casting that has a lower deck height to the USA type.

4000 Imported USA 250 engines near the end of the XY run ? I wonder why they would of done such a thing, what their union trouble ? as I can not see anything other that could cause such a thing in late 1971, If i remember correctly early mid 1972 there was union problems at Ford Australia.

The only fully imported 6 cyl in Aussie Falcons were XM-P 200ci that I know of.

The Aussie Ford 6 cyl used the same block for both the 200ci and 250ci from 10 / 1970 XY to 6 / 1976 XB Falcons but in the USA they had one block for there 250ci and another block for there 200ci as the 200 USA block is just the same as our XR 200 block casing.

And our 250 casting was modified with a lower deck height than the USA type so we could use the same casting for our 200 as well.

Not to mention that at the back of the USA Block is somewhat different to our Aussie 250 as well and in relation to the starter motor position, so I find that such is hard to swallow as being correct.

And I can tell the difference between all Aussie Log head 6cyl engines at a glance.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by GT450

I had a 250 2v XA 4 door . Cav was correct the motor was Canadian built, it had a twin barrel carb with a water cooled manifold and extractors straight from the factory. It could hold it's own with the 302s of the day too. But if I could go back the XA GT coupe my dad had would be my choice , I spent many happy hours driving that car and just before he sold it , on it's last Bathurst trip, I hit 145mph before I had to brake for a T intersection and ran out of road. It shattered many an L34 owners dreams and my dad drove it like he stole it, even had the constabulary write him out a speeding ticket in our local waterhole way back then.
That's the thing though , all of these cars were great in their era , but on todays congested roads they would be a handful and todays laws just wouldn't let them be the fun they were intended to be, much like many of todays cars. Hey but I am an old fart and I can dream..............
GT450

All our 250 2V were only Aussie built and that's a fact because no USA 250 ever got a 2V head like what we made here that you bolt on the intake manifold and all USA 250 were only the log head.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

But the USA 250 Block is different to our Aussie casting that has a lower deck height to the USA type.

4000 Imported USA 250 engines near the end of the XY run ? I wonder why they would of done such a thing, what their union trouble ? as I can not see anything other that could cause such a thing in late 1971, If i remember correctly early mid 1972 there was union problems at Ford Australia.

The only fully imported 6 cyl in Aussie Falcons were XM-P 200ci that I know of.

The Aussie Ford 6 cyl used the same block for both the 200ci and 250ci from 10 / 1970 XY to 6 / 1976 XB Falcons but in the USA they had one block for there 250ci and another block for there 200ci as the 200 USA block is just the same as our XR 200 block casing.

And our 250 casting was modified with a lower deck height than the USA type so we could use the same casting for our 200 as well.

Not to mention that at the back of the USA Block is somewhat different to our Aussie 250 as well and in relation to the starter motor position, so I find that such is hard to swallow as being correct.

And I can tell the difference between all Aussie Log head 6cyl engines at a glance.

Don't shoot the messenger, Mick. I'm only quoting from the Ford genuine parts catalogue. I'm no expert.

I remember seeing the engines with the blue stripe on them back then. I worked for Legion taxis in Sydney & we had huge numbers of XY taxis, but I had no idea what the stripe indicated until going thru the parts book in recent years.

You are correct about the 250 2V, they were 100% Aussie, not US or Canadian.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

I just dug out that parts catalogue & on re-reading it, they don't actually say that the whole engine is imported.

It reads "There are 4000 XY/ZD vehicles fitted with 250 CID 1V engines, which contain unique imported parts.

later it says: Each engine serial number is prefixed by the letter U
Each engine has a manilla tag stamped US 250
The rocker cover is Brambles Red with a Corio Blue stripe 4' x 1-1/2" on top rear end.

All parts unique to these engines have been coded # in the remarks column.

So reading between the lines it would suggest a shortage of supply of some critical internal engine parts, which they had to hurriedly freight in from the US.

Dr Terry

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Don't shoot the messenger, Mick. I'm only quoting from the Ford genuine parts catalogue. I'm no expert.

I remember seeing the engines with the blue stripe on them back then. I worked for Legion taxis in Sydney & we had huge numbers of XY taxis, but I had no idea what the stripe indicated until going thru the parts book in recent years.

You are correct about the 250 2V, they were 100% Aussie, not US or Canadian.

Dr Terry

In no way was I trying to that at all but just stating a fact as I know it.

I know you and admire your work Dr Terry.

With 4000 of 250ci only and no 200's ? I wonder what parts it could be, as the 200 and 250 block is the same thing in Aus from XY to XB.

I think that the USA 250 sump bolt paten are different to our 250 as well.

Maybe the USA could of easy whipped up 4000 blocks as they designed them for Australia in the first place.
It's only the X Flow 6 that Australia created with the hand of the USA as well down here.

Every V8 Cleveland Block was imported to Aus until we starded casting our own from 1976.
All of the Windsor V8 engines were fully imported and that ended with the XY.

The setting up of the V8 Cleveland plant in late 1971 may of restricted production of the 6 at the time ? but they were only casting 302 heads and cranks and rods and maybe Camshafts ect and the 1971-2 302 Blocks were all pre bored and honed in USA and ready to assemble here.

[Dr Terry]

The way I read it, the parts might only be a few internal pieces, fitted to Aussie blocks & heads.

Could they be only rods & pistons, or whatever, maybe unique to 250 ci motors.

I would guess that 250s would've outnumbered 200s by 10 to 1 in production, so if they had a small number of "unique parts" it would've been more prudent to fit them to just one type of motor, rather than just randomly. In those days 4000 engines would've only been a few weeks production & this was their most popular engine.

Dr Terry

[Sprintey]

Once I came across a petrol Ford 200 as the generator in a plant room for a shopping centre. I stood and marveled it for a couple of minutes, noting the carburettor and a bit envious of the unmarked blue paint. Most plant rooms for most buildings use diesel backup generators, and I visited hundreds of different places.

There may be some US-Built Ford inline 6's sitting in buildings throughout the country.

[roKWiz]

I once came across a 250 i6 in a converted ex ferry for sale. Shocked when I looked into the bilge. I reckon it couldn't have been the original surveyed engine as it would never have passed.
I'm surprised it would have been allowed in a commercial shop either as a genset.

Petrol on a liveaboard boat = ca boooom.

[janddbone]

What idiot would own a '60's Rover...............

[Tassie f100]

Asks someone who owns Ssangyong and a Discovery!!Lol

[Tonz]

My dad had in succession.

Rover 75
90
110
3 litre

the 3 litre was fun to drive drifting sideways through long wet grass, after approaching an S bend one night when he was away.
6 months later I was asked if I knew any reason why long grass would be up inside the wheel rim?