How are we supposed to live on mars in the future when its farther away from the sun? - Page 2

mcflux · 06-04-2006, 11:19 AM

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Originally Posted by sourbastard

terraforming is not as easy as it looks on tv. its extremely expensive, very dangerous and extremely complex.

And that's just Backyard Blitz!

LeMans · 07-04-2006, 02:14 AM

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Originally Posted by sourbastard

Sat up all night watching X files did we?

A) life can be supported in almost any climate save for the vacuum of space. It just requires time to adapt to its environ.
B) If its too cold on Mars, how would it be more livable for you on europa when you are ever further away from the sun?
C) Mars climate is quite cold at times, it has an eliptical orbit, which means at times it is closer to the sun at certain points. Seasons typically last about 6 months. Temperatures vary from -140C to 20C
D) Mars atmosphere consists of 95% carbon dioxide, 3% nitrogen and trace amounts of oxygen and water. The density of the Martian atmosphere is only 1% of Earth.
E) Terraforming mars is not as simple as just dumping trees there and hoping for the best. Trees require ecosystems, nitrogens in the soil, fluid water, fertilizing. None of which occur naturally on mars, none of which would survive in minus 140C.
F) A lack of ozone does not equate to heat

and on another note, for those interested in the so called "green house effect", that its quite normal for Earth to not have polar Ice Caps. The earth wont detonate and flood as soon as they melt(Despite what Kevin Costner says). Proof of this is in the fossil records of antarctica, which used to be coverered in rain forest and a variety of dinosaurs/mammals. Our current ice caps and glaciers both north and south, are left overs from the ice age, which has been reducing steadily for thousands of years, and will continue to do so until they are gone entirely.

science lesson is over children, go back to your vehicles and kill some ozone for me.

(B) Europa is deformed massively by Jupiter's gravity which causes internal friction and heat ie. the majority of the heat is generated internally, not from the sun.

(D) The theory is that the Martian polar caps (which are also CO2) will vapourize, so increasing the density slightly. However, the main density increase will be achieved when the Martian water melts and vapourizes. According to NASA it will reach the equivalent density of earth at high altitudes.

(E) NASA believes that the atmosphere density temperatures can be brought to an equivalent of earth at high altitude by using artificial global warming. Establishing an ecosystem is then possible with good planning and lots of effort but will take hundreds of years to establish.

The other question as to why we are not going there with trees now. The answer is that we are taking the first steps. First we have to send probes to see what we have.

ON_DUBS · 07-04-2006, 08:18 AM

i'm more concerned about the Demons that will emerge when they try the teleporter between phobos and diemos

gww64 · 07-04-2006, 01:45 PM

Went to Mars once

ON_DUBS · 08-04-2006, 09:05 AM

oh yeah and you gotta watch out for the alien mind benders too

Danny · 08-04-2006, 12:47 PM

And make sure that you don't shoot high concentration Radiation enery into the mysterious white marble triangle peak on top of one of the red mountains (even though it IS makeing weird pulsating noises). If you do, Tim Robbins will die, and you will have to put up with Julianne Moore's whinging and greivous crying for years until Gary Sinise can save you....

Sourbastard · 08-04-2006, 12:49 PM

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Originally Posted by LeMans

(B) Europa is deformed massively by Jupiter's gravity which causes internal friction and heat ie. the majority of the heat is generated internally, not from the sun.

As i outlined in my second post. And while geothermal heat is great at depth, it doesnt do a hell of alot for surface temperatures required to create a viable atmosphere.

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(D) The theory is that the Martian polar caps (which are also CO2) will vapourize, so increasing the density slightly. However, the main density increase will be achieved when the Martian water melts and vapourizes. According to NASA it will reach the equivalent density of earth at high altitudes.

Thats a great theory. Theres no simple practical way to melt millions of tons of frozen CO2. And just "making" possible martian water to melt from possible frozen deposits(And they would need to be vast deposits to effect an atmospheric change) is no easier either.

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(E) NASA believes that the atmosphere density temperatures can be brought to an equivalent of earth at high altitude by using artificial global warming. Establishing an ecosystem is then possible with good planning and lots of effort but will take hundreds of years to establish.

Establishing an ecosystem is even more of an immense task then changing the climate of an entire planet. Micro organisms, bacterias & fungus, compatible insects, soil nutrients, specific soil types and plant refuse to insulate it, nitrogens in the soil, hardy engineered plants capable of surviving extreme conditions, these are only some of the most basic items required for a very crude ecosystem, which we are spoiled by having already in place here on Earth. Introducing one that can survive in an alien environment devoid of all essential elements is a task of Thousands of years, not hundreds. It took eons for our own ecosystems to evolve, the concept of introducing a successful one to mars in only hundreds of years is ludicrous, human assisted, engineered, or otherwise. You cant just genetically engineer a super plant, drop it off with a barrel of osmocote and hope for the best. Even the most basic ecosystem will have to be revised and revised and revised again insitu and while it in progress to ensure its balanced and capable of long term survival. It will have to be managed to ensure it also isnt so aggressive that it will override any future agro culture projects for food cropping.

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The other question as to why we are not going there with trees now. The answer is that we are taking the first steps. First we have to send probes to see what we have.

cheaper faster nastier is NASA's policy, and will likely stay that way for many years to come. No terraforming project could be completed in 4 years, nor at a minimal budget, so dont expect an american administration to commit the political or financial resources to make it happen or even start in our life times.

There are too many rednecks in assbite Iowa complaining about spending a whole 40 bucks to fill their SUV then there are scientists screaming about terraforming projects.