Chinese cars make record sales in Australia

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And that makes it acceptable in 2023?

Not at All..!
But, To My Mind. The Chinese Car industry Today is in a similar position to what he Aussie one was in back Then...
Give them a few years & they'll have their act together Big Time I think..!

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This was rusted right through the bottoms of the doors and was completely visible on the outside. Not just rust appearing in seams.

So you are saying that the issue with the Everest is acceptable because it was only in the seams(this was a recall issue for Ford, so there were more than one vehicle). Maybe the rust in the Chinese vehicle was an environmental issue and not a production issue.

[EBSXR6]

Sales on Chinese Made Vehicles are misleading.
Some figures quote cars made by Chinese Manufacturers and others include cars made by Overseas manufacturers in China such as Tesla, etc

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

That's an interesting point, and probably the subject of a different thread altogether, but are car manufacturers (and other goods as well) making their product with a shorter lifespan because of cost cutting or because of the turnover rate of their consumers? Conversely, have consumers changed their expectations of product life because of the manufacturing process or do they just prefer to turn things over more frequently. Which is the actual driver (no pun intended)?

I feel a lot of the cost cutting is to mitigate the amount of money they are spending on battery-electric R&D.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I feel a lot of the cost cutting is to mitigate the amount of money they are spending on battery-electric R&D.

I would love to know just how much R&D is required in comparison. I would assume developing a new ICE engine and calibrating it's tune, calibrating it's powertrain/transmission to match etc would take far longer than an electric motor and it's drivetrain. Building a new platform is expensive but just like ICE vehicles you share and mod it for various variants so I'd expect a similar cost if not cheaper for an EV. Electric motors surely cost less to build than an ICE engine. Is building a battery factory more expensive than a new engine casting and production plant?

So.....show me the money....I'm thinking it's more likely...."we can charge more because demand is high and we don't build enough and it's also early days for early adopters"....yes I'm cynical....then if they used Aussie engineers, they would save more again...

[FTE217]

I'm with you Dr.......
Though regards to the mention re "cost cutting" and Fox mentioned is going the less quality/shorter lifespan route, occured long before EV investment came into the equation.
Sure the OE's had been starting the cost reports/studies etcetc and then Tesla hit the OE's jumped farfar quicker re EV's but the product/car quality as we knew it changed long before.
OE's building plants in new lower labour cost countries - components from new sources reducing their cost etcetcetc
Even as late as our local Falcon for eg, the AU interior was of higher quality than what was delivered for BSeries from 02.
The euros was far above them all in quality look where that went, long before EV/Tesla launched in 08.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

I'm with you Dr.......
Though regards to the mention re "cost cutting" and Fox mentioned is going the less quality/shorter lifespan route, occured long before EV investment came into the equation.
Sure the OE's had been starting the cost reports/studies etcetc and then Tesla hit the OE's jumped farfar quicker re EV's but the product/car quality as we knew it changed long before.
OE's building plants in new lower labour cost countries - components from new sources reducing their cost etcetcetc
Even as late as our local Falcon for eg, the AU interior was of higher quality than what was delivered for BSeries from 02.
The euros was far above them all in quality look where that went, long before EV/Tesla launched in 08.

Even the stereo with the premium package in the AU Fairmont/Fairlane Ghia was miles better than that BA-FG versions when it came to sound quality.

I'm with FTE and Dr on this one, early adopter tax on EVs they're way simpler cars than traditional ICE, they would cost less to build.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FTE217

AH Bingo, a similar question or more so me not appecting the reported QC issues of the modern day Mustang.

Agreed Boss, its 2023, ok maybe the product doesn't last as it once did back in the day BUT at least bring it out to market spot on to spec, no mis alignments etcetc yet one bloke quoted thats the Norm of a Pony forever and a day, correcting error.
I answer if I'm paying sub $100k my pride and joy should be damn spot on ?! if the cheap cars under $50k can why can't my $90K for eg Mustang.

The Mustang build quality just isn't good enough. But strangely enough, i've never heard americans complain about it. Which is probably why they consider it acceptable. I wonder if the feedback they would have got due to the amount of re-works required in australia to get panel alignment right ever flowed back to them, and if they ever acted on it.

Originally Posted by Warrenk

So you are saying that the issue with the Everest is acceptable because it was only in the seams(this was a recall issue for Ford, so there were more than one vehicle). Maybe the rust in the Chinese vehicle was an environmental issue and not a production issue.

Not at all. Just one case significantly worse than the other. And one was recalled as you say, the other was ignored. Rust seems to be a significant issue with these chinese vehicles if owner feedback is to be believed. Especially in the utes.

It's not a common issue with Everest and Ranger. Not to say there hasn't been cases of it, as the recalled ones attest to.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Even the stereo with the premium package in the AU Fairmont/Fairlane Ghia was miles better than that BA-FG versions when it came to sound quality.

I'm with FTE and Dr on this one, early adopter tax on EVs they're way simpler cars than traditional ICE, they would cost less to build.

It's more a case of having to design most of the car from scratch that adds up to them being significantly more expensive to develop. ICE cars can borrow parts, engines, drivelines etc from other models, and are commonly built on platforms from previous models.

With new EV's, pretty much everything bar interior bits and pieces has to be designed from scratch. I've had a Mach E up on the hoist, and underneath nothing looks like anything you would see in an ICE vehicle bar the suspension components.

[FTE217]

Boss
The yanks are used to sub standard product period for decades.
What do you expect for the prices they pay compared to the rest of world.
If they whinged pricing would go up obviously then they’d whinge again lol…..
You really agree a mustang is worth near triple figures - not me I tell you for the dough.
They are like a Falcon there yet we pay euro price for them + Oz tax and obviously with hardly any competition under 100k it’s easy sell and profit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Mustang build quality just isn't good enough. But strangely enough, i've never heard americans complain about it. Which is probably why they consider it acceptable. I wonder if the feedback they would have got due to the amount of re-works required in australia to get panel alignment right ever flowed back to them, and if they ever acted on it.

Talking to someone I know with FNA, a fair bot of stamping work is now outsourced, when the parts come to them the alignment/match up is really bad…

Not at all. Just one case significantly worse than the other. And one was recalled as you say, the other was ignored. Rust seems to be a significant issue with these chinese vehicles if owner feedback is to be believed. Especially in the utes.

It's not a common issue with Everest and Ranger. Not to say there hasn't been cases of it, as the recalled ones attest to.

This.
Chinese companies haven’t done the hard years of experience with corrosion
that the Americans, European, Japanese and Koreans have and solved years ago….
Amazing how many buyers think the shiny new penny will just stay that way…

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I would love to know just how much R&D is required in comparison. I would assume developing a new ICE engine and calibrating it's tune, calibrating it's powertrain/transmission to match etc would take far longer than an electric motor and it's drivetrain. Building a new platform is expensive but just like ICE vehicles you share and mod it for various variants so I'd expect a similar cost if not cheaper for an EV. Electric motors surely cost less to build than an ICE engine. Is building a battery factory more expensive than a new engine casting and production plant?

So.....show me the money....I'm thinking it's more likely...."we can charge more because demand is high and we don't build enough and it's also early days for early adopters"....yes I'm cynical....then if they used Aussie engineers, they would save more again...

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's more a case of having to design most of the car from scratch that adds up to them being significantly more expensive to develop. ICE cars can borrow parts, engines, drivelines etc from other models, and are commonly built on platforms from previous models.

With new EV's, pretty much everything bar interior bits and pieces has to be designed from scratch. I've had a Mach E up on the hoist, and underneath nothing looks like anything you would see in an ICE vehicle bar the suspension components.

As alluded to, it more of a situation of needing to tool-up for a whole different way of building cars and their powertrains. They are basically starting from scratch compared to factories fitted with everything needed to manufacture internal combustion engines and transmissions. The need to calibrate an electric powertrain would be a similar amount to an ICE powertrain, just different.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

As alluded to, it more of a situation of needing to tool-up for a whole different way of building cars and their powertrains. They are basically starting from scratch compared to factories fitted with everything needed to manufacture internal combustion engines and transmissions. The need to calibrate an electric powertrain would be a similar amount to an ICE powertrain, just different.

This supports that notion.............

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...on-evs-in-2023

"The company still expects that the production costs versus revenue of its first-generation EVs will break even this year.

The loss in the EV arm will come predominantly from significant investments in Ford’s EV manufacturing capability such as its newly built production sites in Kentucky and Tennessee.

Ford’s investment in three EV and battery production plants is expected to cost the company around US$11.4 billion (A$15.7 billion) and create around 11,000 jobs.

Additionally, Ford will continue to invest in battery technology, offering EVs powered by both nickel cobalt manganese (NMC) and lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries.

Currently, the business from Ford’s combustion engine vehicles is funding the transition to electric vehicles."

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

This supports that notion.............

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...on-evs-in-2023

"The company still expects that the production costs versus revenue of its first-generation EVs will break even this year.

The loss in the EV arm will come predominantly from significant investments in Ford’s EV manufacturing capability such as its newly built production sites in Kentucky and Tennessee.

Ford’s investment in three EV and battery production plants is expected to cost the company around US$11.4 billion (A$15.7 billion) and create around 11,000 jobs.

Additionally, Ford will continue to invest in battery technology, offering EVs powered by both nickel cobalt manganese (NMC) and lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries.

Currently, the business from Ford’s combustion engine vehicles is funding the transition to electric vehicles."

All while ICE buyers continually get price rises to fund EV’s.

With the amount of EV’s i’ve seen pictures of on fire over the last few days i’m wondering when the alarm bells will start ringing. The video’s of Tesla’s spontaneously combusting are all over the socials atm.

[Syndrome]

In 2023 sales of Chinese made cars was 57% higher than their 2022 sales

https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...d5296fa5c4b804

How soon before Chinese passes Thailand as the larger source of vehicles for the Australian market?

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

In 2023 sales of Chinese made cars was 57% higher than their 2022 sales

https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...d5296fa5c4b804

How soon before Chinese passes Thailand as the larger source of vehicles for the Australian market?

Not too long due to blind sheeple looking to buy cheaper EV's......
You could say they will be the supreme Bunnings of the impending auto duracel industry.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Not too long due to blind sheeple looking to buy cheaper EV's......

You could say they will be the supreme Bunnings of the impending auto duracel industry.

Wouldn't the sheep be people buying ICE because that's what society has always done?!

[FTE217]

uh hum, ice is a known product whereas as quoted, sheeple will buy cheap EV's, price price get it ?!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by FTE217

uh hum, ice is a known product whereas as quoted, sheeple will buy cheap EV's, price price get it ?!

I think you need to understand sheep. Sheep follow the known product that the majority buys.

EV owners, by definition, can't be sheep.

[FTE217]

you need to understand yourself, in time as cheap chinese EV's keep coming to market the flock of sheeple grows.....

[kypez]

Originally Posted by FTE217

you need to understand yourself, in time as cheap chinese EV's keep coming to market the flock of sheeple grows.....

You're still using the term incorrectly.

iPhone users, for example, would be sheep because they're so many of them.

Hilux and Ranger buyers are because people buy them to fit in the crowd..

EV buyers now are not sheep. They make up a tiny percentage of the cars sold. Maybe oneday the sheep will join the EVs. Just not yet.

Sheep still buy ICE

Though Within EV buyers , people who are buying Model 3/Y could be considered sheep.

[Polyal]

Why are we so quick to throw out one liners these days.

Super simple, manufacturers read the market, sometimes roll the dice, and sometimes do really well.

Chinese are doing no different to any other country previously, pricing and flood markets to get people in and then hopefully they are good enough for a repeat buyer...then start raising the price.

The "sheep" are doing what is best for them, thats democracy at work, if people are threatened then have these discussions with potential buyers but at the end of the day the bloke down the road can buy whatever he wants; particularly now where there is very little impact to local jobs.

Im happy the Chinese are doing this, it will keep the others honest for a little while at least. Once the major guys come online then it will be another maket again but its certainly alot of talk at the moment so the next year or two should really should if EV is serious or not...we are still skirting around the edges.

[roKWiz]

Tic Tok, Tic Tok. The Chinese government are just misunderstood.