SS vs XR8 and the winner is......

[2242100]

Here's a quote about the 335 kW engines overboost feature from the Car Advice review of the RSPEC:-

"the Maimi produces about 375 kW for around 8 seconds at a time"

I know they can get good end speeds on a single 1/4 mile run under reasonable conditions, so I'd say the overboost can often last longer than 8 seconds.
Also with a period of reduced throttle operation the engine will recover for another burst, but I suspect it won't take too much hot lapping before going off the boil unless the weather is very cool.
So perhaps that goes a long way to explaining the result. The overboost is great for real world driving but not so good for hot lapping.

I've got to say though, the Commodore performs very impressively at the track considering it's power output.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

4.3s is the quickest I have done.

I think that highlights how a 0-100 time on it's own often doesn't tell very much.
Did the XR8 lose a lot of time in 1st gear because of wheelspin? We just don't know.

By the way I'm not doubting your 4.3 time (I know you've achieved a very good 1/4 mile result at the dragstrip) but I was wondering how you measured it?

[Chopped]

Despite the 0-100 times being at the higher end of what has been achieved before, they do reflect the gap between the two cars in acceleration.

The track lap time video showed the commodore to be much more settled through the twisty stuff, it was easily visible. I don't think better tyres would help the XR8, you could see it lurching more and being a little less balanced.

In saying that, the XR8 is the true muscle car out of the two, there are no doubts about that.
The VF SSV is more the complete package and will only get better with the LS3 in it.
(Still won't take the muscle car title off the XR8 though)

Both will be remembered fondly.

[1TUFFUTE]

I'll 100%back the guys stating that driver was NOT driving correctly by a country mile. Early and mid corner he's smoking the rear tyres there's a number of times he's doing this. That is WAY too much pedal if your getting the loaded outside tyre SMOKING when you should be concentrating on stability, grip, balance and so on. How on earth these gung-ho drivers (just like so many journos who only believe on foot flat too the floor or nothing) can't drive a car to the CARS limits. NOT the limits of the other car on test!

[Maka]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'll 100%back the guys stating that driver was NOT driving correctly by a country mile. Early and mid corner he's smoking the rear tyres there's a number of times he's doing this. That is WAY too much pedal if your getting the loaded outside tyre SMOKING when you should be concentrating on stability, grip, balance and so on. How on earth these gung-ho drivers (just like so many journos who only believe on foot flat too the floor or nothing) can't drive a car to the CARS limits. NOT the limits of the other car on test!

Just like a pro drifter! Yep imo you are correct, power down after the apex is a much better method you would think right?

cheers, Maka

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by 2242100

I think that highlights how a 0-100 time on it's own often doesn't tell very much.
Did the XR8 lose a lot of time in 1st gear because of wheelspin? We just don't know.

By the way I'm not doubting your 4.3 time (I know you've achieved a very good 1/4 mile result at the dragstrip) but I was wondering how you measured it?

Theres a video in my build thread bud. Its "only" the 4.43s run but it explains how I did it. Done it a few times since with a mate and his GTS with less fuel in the tank, spare out, different RPMs etc. Launch control really does work. Traction off just fries the tyres through the gears, heaps of fun.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

4.3s is the quickest I have done.

What's your quickest bog standard - out the factory door.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Done it a few times since with a mate and his GTS with less fuel in the tank, spare out, different RPMs etc. Launch control really does work. Traction off just fries the tyres through the gears, heaps of fun.

Just wondering, a spare is weight over rear tyres, in some ways I thought it would have helped give some traction in rear tyres?

You also got a manual, so many other testers say it is quicker 0-100 with traction off?

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by johnydep

What's your quickest bog standard - out the factory door.

I have seen 4.3 on more than one occasion. Stock filter, tyres, running 98 with the spare. Going to try again with new rubber in the next 6 months or so. Will be going against my original plan of ditching the dunlops as there is still a tenth or 2 to be had at the track for the stock set up but bettering the 0-100 I think is getting more unlikely.

Originally Posted by asagaai

Just wondering, a spare is weight over rear tyres, in some ways I thought it would have helped give some traction in rear tyres?

You also got a manual, so many other testers say it is quicker 0-100 with traction off?

Mines a ZF Auto. The time we tried the spare out didn't see anything under 4.6 I think.

[Road_Warrior]

Is the XR8 using the same Dunslop tyres as the GT was?

[SensationFG8]

Yep it sure is, so's the XR6T (although no 275 rears on that).

It was only the other models that got the Michellins.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Theres a video in my build thread bud. Its "only" the 4.43s run but it explains how I did it. Done it a few times since with a mate and his GTS with less fuel in the tank, spare out, different RPMs etc. Launch control really does work. Traction off just fries the tyres through the gears, heaps of fun.

Thanks for that mate.
I'm particularly impressed by the 117 mph (188.28 kmh) end speed that you got, and a point to remember is that the speed at the 400 metre point should actually be about 1 k faster (in a car like yours) than what actually is on the time sheet. That's because dragstrip timing systems average a cars speed over the last 66 feet.

So your Auto's 189k plus 400 metre end speed is way ahead of the approximate 180 kmh 400 metre end speeds that we've seen in Magazine tested Auto XR8's and 335 kw GT's.

Your situation is similar to mine. I got around 180 at 400 metres out of my stock XR6 T Auto at the track, yet published Magazine road tests generally have these cars only getting into the low 170's.
A point also worth noting is that the quality of a cars launch (fast or slow) has a very minimal affect on end speeds (eg 6 tenths slower to 60 kmh will only reduce my cars 400 metre end speed by one third of one killometre (detailed GPS data in my post of 22/12/14. Last ever Ford Falcon-picture and discussion thread).

So it certainly seems to me that the overboost hasn't been working (or barely working) when the magazines have ran their published 400 metre results for these cars.
I can't be sure of the reason, but giving them a hard time finding the best technique, and then running a number of runs without cooldown runs between could be a cause I suspect. I'm thinking that the overboost probably generally isn't working by the time they get everything right.

The feature is great for every day real world driving, but I believe that (unless the weather is very cool) continual 400 metre runs or hot lapping are another thing.

[335POWER]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Yep it sure is, so's the XR6T (although no 275 rears on that).

It was only the other models that got the Michellins.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Is the XR8 using the same Dunslop tyres as the GT was?

What's the quality like with these tyres?

[SensationFG8]

They're rubbish

[XR Martin]

Looking at Tyresales.com.au
Tyres on the SSV are nearly double the cost of the XR8 ones, letalone the HSV GTS tyres which are 4x the price.

[335POWER]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

They're rubbish

Well once I can I'll be getting Invo's on them

Then fry the factory rubbish!

[arronm]

Yeh the stock bridgestones on the SSV are pretty good. 275/35/19

I use nitto invo on the F6. They hook up well in the dry. 285/30/19

[kypez]

Originally Posted by arronm

Yeh the stock bridgestones on the SSV are pretty good. 275/35/19

I use nitto invo on the F6. They hook up well in the dry. 285/30/19

For once we agree. Used invos on the XR8 and will be putting a set on the GTF as soon as I get the new rims. They are pretty awesome in the wet too which is important for me as the GTF is my daily drive.

255/30 20 and 285/25 20

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 2242100

Thanks for that mate.
I'm particularly impressed by the 117 mph (188.28 kmh) end speed that you got, and a point to remember is that the speed at the 400 metre point should actually be about 1 k faster (in a car like yours) than what actually is on the time sheet. That's because dragstrip timing systems average a cars speed over the last 66 feet.

So your Auto's 189k plus 400 metre end speed is way ahead of the approximate 180 kmh 400 metre end speeds that we've seen in Magazine tested Auto XR8's and 335 kw GT's.

Your situation is similar to mine. I got around 180 at 400 metres out of my stock XR6 T Auto at the track, yet published Magazine road tests generally have these cars only getting into the low 170's.
A point also worth noting is that the quality of a cars launch (fast or slow) has a very minimal affect on end speeds (eg 6 tenths slower to 60 kmh will only reduce my cars 400 metre end speed by one third of one killometre (detailed GPS data in my post of 22/12/14. Last ever Ford Falcon-picture and discussion thread).

So it certainly seems to me that the overboost hasn't been working (or barely working) when the magazines have ran their published 400 metre results for these cars.
I can't be sure of the reason, but giving them a hard time finding the best technique, and then running a number of runs without cooldown runs between could be a cause I suspect. I'm thinking that the overboost probably generally isn't working by the time they get everything right.

The feature is great for every day real world driving, but I believe that (unless the weather is very cool) continual 400 metre runs or hot lapping are another thing.

But then you get VERY reliable results from tests such as the latest GTF vs GTS dyno tests where they tried pretty hard too heat soak the ford to make it drop it's power. Something like 9 back to back dyno runs didn't do jack squat.
My personal opinion from what I've been picking up is that the transient overboost is NOT just some delicate little boost feature. It legitimately keeps the power(boost) up as long as possable. In other words.....good tuning/software setup for the real world useage! Not just some lame 8 sec power spike a lot of very unlearned journos go on about!

Maybe ford should have simply not ever mentioned t overboost....because even the mighty GTS has power cutting software when temps are not ideal!

[arronm]

Originally Posted by kypez

For once we agree. Used invos on the XR8 and will be putting a set on the GTF as soon as I get the new rims. They are pretty awesome in the wet too which is important for me as the GTF is my daily drive.

255/30 20 and 285/25 20

The difference in OD size of those tyres my interfere with the traction control.

Best to stick with 245/35 and 285/30

I dont drive the F6 much in the rain. Its a BA so traction control is useless and no DSC.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by arronm

The difference in OD size of those tyres my interfere with the traction control.

Best to stick with 245/35 and 285/30

I dont drive the F6 much in the rain. Its a BA so traction control is useless and no DSC.

I knew it wouldn't last long!

Actually it's quite the opposite.

245/35 on a 19 inch rim will have a very similar diameter to 255/30 20 (approx 1% difference). If I was to keep the same aspect ratio in a 20 inch rim, the diameter will increase by 1 inch, increasing the circumference giving a massive change to the dsc system (almost 4%). If I use a 245/30 20 it will be almost the same as the 19's but will not take sufficient load.

Same with the rear. 285/25 20 is a 0.1% difference in circumference when compared to 275/30 19. A 275/30 20 will net a similar ~4% change.

Basically trying to offset the increase in diameter by reducing the sidewall thickness.

[arronm]

Wrong.

Its the difference in the overall diameter between the front and rear tyres. Not all the tyres. Plenty of FG running 245/35 and 275/30 both in 19 and 20 inch. And as the OD of both the front and rear tyres is similar. Traction control is not affected. BUT depending on where the speedo is taken from it may need to be recalibrated as with larger tyres it may be reading slower than you are actually travelling.

What you need to do is keep the front and rear tyres the same OD. Which your suggested tyres arnt.

On a side note can you turn off the traction control but leave the DSC on an FG. Or is it one button so its either all on or off.

[dragons90]

255/30 to 285/25 is only 1.5% difference so should be fine

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by arronm

On a side note can you turn off the traction control but leave the DSC on an FG. Or is it one button so its either all on or off.

Its either DSC + TC on or DSC + TC off

[arronm]

Cheers, thought us much but wasnt sure. Thats a shame. Its a great advantage to be able to turn off traction but leave on DSC. It means you can spin the wheels but if it steps out to far the DSC catches it.

[DFB FGXR6]

From what I have experienced with my FG (not the FGX, yet), there is a portion of slip before the DSC kicks in, enough for a small amount of opposite lock.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Decent tyres make a huge difference to these cars. Unlucky ford kept with Dunflop as the tyres let the car down heaps.

[HULK_I6T]

One aspect that hasnt been discussed is the look of the cars. Its the number one reason people buy or dont buy a car.

the VF is a one very very good looking car, inside and out, top to bottom.

the fgx to me is average looking. I sort of like the rear end but im not convinced with that long nosed hammer head front end look of the fgx. Ewww.. but the miami motor for most makes up for it. And couldnt they find a different set of wheels for a new model?

[XR Martin]

Looks are subjective...

Personally I find the VF interior too busy. Dash and door trims are covered in atleast 9 different materials, seats another 6.
Imagine if your lounge room was like that?

I think people assume its stylish because there is so much going on.
Its like they had a table full of materials to design an interior and they said **** it, we'll use everything

[tapeworm]

I've never liked the VE/F Commo's they look like huge bloated camry's with pumped wheel arches and no style