SS vs XR8 and the winner is......

[kypez]

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

You're clearly missing the my point here mate. ..I have no problems with you having an opinion. . That's what contributing in a forum is all about. . But for you to say that a few of us on here are blowing out trumpets in a Ford forum is ridiculous when the topic is also about a Holden

And sensation. .I wasn't comparing my GTS with an SS..I was simply trying to make a point that I don't go on here blowing on any trumpet..I could but i don't

If you guys don't want to read anything positive about Holden than I suggest you not open up any threads that mentions them in the title and stick to threads that only talk about your beloved Fords

Forgive me to feel that way but constantly reading posts from you saying things like, "still way overpriced" (Dick Johnson thread), comments in this thread, there is no fairness. People have paid good money for their cars (many over the $100k mark) but your opinions seems not need to respect others decisions. Thats my problem with your comments.

I had initially said I'd even recommend a SS to people. But thats not good enough unless I ADMIT that its a better package!

As I said, I dont go to LS1 and say how rubbish I think the LS3 motor is, etc. I just keep it here. Sure you can comment. I have no issues reading them as you have no issues expressing them. Just be ready for my opinion if you're willing to give me yours! Read back, you'll find the holden boys being defensive of their product and a balanced argument from the Ford boys but you guys just push and push... Its boring!

[skoobysGT]

Originally Posted by kypez

Forgive me to feel that way but constantly reading posts from you saying things like, "still way overpriced" (Dick Johnson thread), comments in this thread, there is no fairness. People have paid good money for their cars (many over the $100k mark) but your opinions seems not need to respect others decisions. Thats my problem with your comments.

I had initially said I'd even recommend a SS to people. But thats not good enough unless I ADMIT that its a better package!

As I said, I dont go to LS1 and say how rubbish I think the LS3 motor is, etc. I just keep it here. Sure you can comment. I have no issues reading them as you have no issues expressing them. Just be ready for my opinion if you're willing to give me yours! Read back, you'll find the holden boys being defensive of their product and a balanced argument from the Ford boys but you guys just push and push... Its boring!

Again. .I have absolutely no problems with hearing your opinion and you have every right to say them

in regards to the GTF being over priced I would say the same about my GTS.. There is no way I would have purchased it when it was around the 107k Mark. ..Instead I waited for the MY14 runout sale and bought it for 92k and still think it's over priced but you only live once right?

Like I said before in this forum. . If I could afford both cars I would have an octane GTF with black stripes sitting in my garage now next to my GTS... But not for 100k

[kypez]

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

Again. .I have absolutely no problems with hearing your opinion and you have every right to say them

in regards to the GTF being over priced I would say the same about my GTS.. There is no way I would have purchased it when it was around the 107k Mark. ..Instead I waited for the MY14 runout sale and bought it for 92k and still think it's over priced but you only live once right?

Like I said before in this forum. . If I could afford both cars I would have an octane GTF with black stripes sitting in my garage now next to my GTS... But not for 100k

There is the difference! I think they are fantastic value for money and the GTS is an even better deal at $92k (maybe even under valued there)! I think it would be well worth the $110k price tag it originally had. Personally, I think HSV should have protected their product better and not have discounted them. Bit like Ford are doing with the XR8 though I do appreciate there will be more Fat in the price of the GTS than the XR8. But I digress.

The point I'm saying is that if you look back, the Ford fans have been very level in their comments and assessments just talking about the good of the Ford, rather than rubbishing the opposition. But at some point, you gotta fight fire with fire

[mik]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yep! Thats all I had asked for as well! One test cannot and should not be used as the be all and end all but the Holden boys lapped it up as it fit their conformational bias.

One test and apparently I have my head in the sand!

absolutley agree with the one test bs, if they did 5 tests on different style tracks and came out in front on 3 out of 5 that would be a win, one or two tests that suit a more sedately powered car is no win.

[Chopped]

Is anyone really surprised at the fact that what is essentially a GT R Spec Falcon with XR8 badges beats the SS in performance, blind Freddie could have predicted that!

I was a little surprised that the SS could hold it's own on the track. Let's not forget that unlike Ford, Holden(HSV) offer three different V8s. The 6, 6.2 and blown 6.2. The blown 6.2 is the only one that can challenge the blown Ford offering (but comes with a hefty price tag in comparison).

So bragging about the XR8 beating the SS is kinda lame

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Chopped

I was a little surprised that the SS could hold it's own on the track.

My own experience is in an R8, but if its anything like the FE3 of the SSV redline, then I'm not surprised. The XR8 I had a quick drive in was not the most polished performer in the handling stakes. I can put some of it down to the tyres, but not all of it ... the balance was not quite there, and certainly not on the same level as the HSV.

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by b0son

My own experience is in an R8, but if its anything like the FE3 of the SSV redline, then I'm not surprised. The XR8 I had a quick drive in was not the most polished performer in the handling stakes. I can put some of it down to the tyres, but not all of it ... the balance was not quite there, and certainly not on the same level as the HSV.

This is exactly the point I've been trying to get across. The FE3 suspension and VF chassis feels extremely balanced and well polished when compared with the GT/XR8. The magnetic ride in the GTS would be next level again, especially with torque vectoring.

If a pro driver can't drive a car fast around a track in 3 laps then it's obviously not an easy car to drive fast, which was my point. Old mate jumped in two separate cars and did 3 flying laps, so he had 3 laps to try and get used to each car and perform the best time...i think that's pretty fair. If a pro driver couldn't drive a car quickly then that says to me that it's much harder to drive. Kypez, you may be a gun driver who's used to how to get the most out of the falcon around a track...but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles better, it just means YOU can handle that particular car better after more experience driving it.

Remember back to when the Rspec or other variant was track tested against the GTS and the GTS thumped it by 2 seconds. Similar power to the GT (and less power to the rear wheels than a GTF) and the GTS was significantly quicker around the track. Each comparison between the Holden/HSV and Ford/FPV they came out saying that the Holden/HSV handles better and is more balanced, which mirrors both skooby, my and others findings when comparing the two.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

This is exactly the point I've been trying to get across. The FE3 suspension and VF chassis feels extremely balanced and well polished when compared with the GT/XR8. The magnetic ride in the GTS would be next level again, especially with torque vectoring.

If a pro driver can't drive a car fast around a track in 3 laps then it's obviously not an easy car to drive fast, which was my point. Old mate jumped in two separate cars and did 3 flying laps, so he had 3 laps to try and get used to each car and perform the best time...i think that's pretty fair. If a pro driver couldn't drive a car quickly then that says to me that it's much harder to drive. Kypez, you may be a gun driver who's used to how to get the most out of the falcon around a track...but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles better, it just means YOU can handle that particular car better after more experience driving it.

Remember back to when the Rspec or other variant was track tested against the GTS and the GTS thumped it by 2 seconds. Similar power to the GT (and less power to the rear wheels than a GTF) and the GTS was significantly quicker around the track. Each comparison between the Holden/HSV and Ford/FPV they came out saying that the Holden/HSV handles better and is more balanced, which mirrors both skooby, my and others findings when comparing the two.

All I'm saying about the pro driver you mentioned is that he has had a lot of experience with NA V8's and at that, the Commodore given his driving school history. Most people don't appreciate the extra torque and hp of the S/C V8. You gather so much more speed than the SS. That translates to entry instability and the extra power unsettles the exit. That's why it gets unsettled cause people don't appreciate that they need to be driven differently.

I agree, you can't just jump in and drive the wheels off it though if you're used to a XR6T/F6, chances are you'll do well.

[kypez]

I think one of the V8 guys summed it up. You need to drive it like you are driving bear foot and the peddle is made of nails.

[pottery beige]

peeps need to chill a little in threads like these

had one of those rare moments to take a bog stock BA GT for a spin

still so raw, still so brutal, layed 11s and blew my license away

what i like others dont like / what you like i dont like

props to graphicgoose dude

Originally Posted by kypez

I think one of the V8 guys summed it up. You need to drive it like you are driving bear foot and the peddle is made of nails.

PB

[Falcon Coupe]

Instead of derailing threads, starting a thread comparing ones own car against anything else is as easy as clicking the button. ;)

[arronm]

My post was in reference to power delivery and handling which is what we were discussing.'


But **** it I am done with this thread....

[Falcon Coupe]

Somehow all roads lead to Turbo in a thread that doesn't feature any. Go start a thread and have at it.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

If a pro driver can't drive a car fast around a track in 3 laps then it's obviously not an easy car to drive fast, which was my point. Old mate jumped in two separate cars and did 3 flying laps, so he had 3 laps to try and get used to each car and perform the best time...i think that's pretty fair.

Dan,

If this is the Caradvice XR8/SS compare then who says the XR8 isn't fast?

The guy himself said both cars did very well to get into the 11's and he gave props to both.

There was really nothing in that video that told us anything we didn't know already: Ford has the grunt, Holden has the finesse. That's just the way it is. Reminds me of the days when it was the other way around; Holden had the grunt and Ford had the best ride/handling package.

Everybody will always try to sell on their strong points, and this will always mean different things to different people, and it's why there will always be spirited discussions on the Forums!

I say we should lap (pun intended!) this up while we can because soon these types of cars will not be available to us for the prices they currently are.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

.And the other thing the SS clearly wins over the XR8 is in the looks department.. Yes it may have a great motor and be quick in a straight line but it is one hell of a fugly car! !! But that's my opinion and I hope you're mature enough to accept that I can have an opinion about a Holden in a Holden vs Ford thread rather then accusing me of blowing my trumpet in a Ford forum.

I agree with you

I saw a Vf ss in the car park today... A stunning looking car... I wouldn't change anything on it.. Wow.

I have not seen a FGX xr8 yet but I have seen a FGX xr6 in blue.. Looked ok but I wasn't overly impressed. I think the FGX needs some really striking wheels to make it look nice. Those old GT rims just don't look right, nice on FG but very ordinary on FGX..

[baboon]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Hulk, there's a truckload more Holden fans then there are Ford Fans.

I dare say that if there was a sales to Fan ratio between Holden and Ford, I reckon the Ford would win that stat....

[mik]

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

No Holden boys on here are going on a Ford forum to blow their trumpet mate. . . We are just contributing to the post titled SS VS XR8 AND THE WINNER IS. ..How do you expect to not read about the Commodore when half the topic of the thread is about it? You seriously think we are not going to back up our cars when the conversation is about the comparison of the two. . For **** sake mate get your head out of the sand. .I even said that I would buy an XR8 over the SS but that's my opinion but aren't other allowed to have their's when the topic is about their car?

Mate. . It's not like they started a brand new thread titled SS VF COMMODORE OUT SELLS THE FGX FALCON.. If I went on here and said my GTS is the best Australian made car ever as it has both PERFORMANCE and GADGETS and blah blah blah then you have every right to say I'm blowing my trumpet. . But like a few of us here I used to own a GT too and have every right to compare the two as I have owned both not like most of you's who may have only test driven a VF Holden or tracked it once around a track etc.. It's so much different actually owning one and driving it on a day to day basis.

And your comment about the only thing the SS wins is the interior is not true. .I would rather believe a non bias review that says the SS handles better and is therefore quicker around a track then an obvious Ford fanboy who says he was quicker in his GT around a track. .And the other thing the SS clearly wins over the XR8 is in the looks department.. Yes it may have a great motor and be quick in a straight line but it is one hell of a fugly car! !! But that's my opinion and I hope you're mature enough to accept that I can have an opinion about a Holden in a Holden vs Ford thread rather then accusing me of blowing my trumpet in a Ford forum.

looks are always subjective, ive never been a fan of the v series look, it reminds me of a big coffin with some bolt on flares and someone has bung some hyundai tailights on it..........although i do prefer the vf over the ve, so not to argue the point to much, but the vf wins for you in looks...... so perhaps its not that clear a winner to everyone..

[2242100]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

You ran 12.509 in a bog stock fg xr6t? No sneaky mods? Tyres perhaps?

I see that Falcon Coupe wants us to drop the Turbo talk on this thread and I can see his point, but it seems you've questioned my honesty so here's my reply.

Here we go again HULK.

Hand on heart, absolutely no mods at all, standard sized nearly new Goodyear Eagle F1 Directional tyres, and also no tune.

Actually the 4.56 second high altitude 0-100 time should be the claim that's the hardest to believe and in saying "here we go again", I'm referring to earlier negative feedback from some forum members on that claim.
The 60 foot time on the 12.509 quarter run at WSID was good, but not special at 1.934 seconds. I think others have bettered that time on good normal street tyres. So I think that negates special tyre suggestions.

But on the subject of sneaky mods, my early posts show that I mentioned the 4.56 second 0-100 time BEFORE seeking advice from Ratter on getting my standard XR6T tuned. Also after mentioning that 4.56 time, I purchased a set of FG F6 injectors to go with the tune from XtRmn8 (he had advertised them on this forum). Also I've posted the full 0-100 data including the distances, and they would be very hard to cook up. Additionally at that time I also put out a call for a second hand FG Turbo EURO 4 CAT which is apparently a bit better than the older standard CAT on my car.

Would I have done all that if the car had been tweaked?

SO NO MODS, AND STANDARD TYRES.

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Dan,

If this is the Caradvice XR8/SS compare then who says the XR8 isn't fast?

The guy himself said both cars did very well to get into the 11's and he gave props to both.

There was really nothing in that video that told us anything we didn't know already: Ford has the grunt, Holden has the finesse. That's just the way it is. Reminds me of the days when it was the other way around; Holden had the grunt and Ford had the best ride/handling package.

Everybody will always try to sell on their strong points, and this will always mean different things to different people, and it's why there will always be spirited discussions on the Forums!

I say we should lap (pun intended!) this up while we can because soon these types of cars will not be available to us for the prices they currently are.

I wasn't saying the XR8 wasn't fast, Jim...because it is (in outright power and straight line speed), just in a different way to the way the VF is fast (through the corners). The fact that the VF has nearly 100kw less power and was still quicker around the track (albeit a circuit where cornering ability outweighs straight line performance) is a testament to how well the VF puts the power that it does have down compared to the XR8.

And you and I are agreeable in our views it would seem. I'm not in this thread to argue with people like yourself Jim, who understand and appreciate how each car is better in different ways for different reasons. I just got over reading some dribble on about how the VF is inferior because it doesn't have the grunt, which isn't true.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

I wasn't saying the XR8 wasn't fast, Jim...because it is (in outright power and straight line speed), just in a different way to the way the VF is fast (through the corners). The fact that the VF has nearly 100kw less power and was still quicker around the track (albeit a circuit where cornering ability outweighs straight line performance) is a testament to how well the VF puts the power that it does have down compared to the XR8.

Here we go again!

One lousy test! Hope you never meet a statistician. The guy will die of a heart attack with your sample size of 1!

Back to back, I've driven the GT faster than an SS at the same circuit. So clearly its at least 1-1 or does that not fit your agenda?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by kypez

Back to back, I've driven the GT faster than an SS at the same circuit. So clearly its at least 1-1 or does that not fit your agenda?

which model SS?

[kypez]

SSV Redline... I play fair. GT was a 335 (not R spec, cant get those guys to lend me a car!!) and was quicker in the GTF too. To be fair, the 6/4 brakes of the GTF would be unfair to the SSV.

Edit: though over a 3 lap super sprint, it doesnt really make much of a difference

[kypez]

Best I've got out of my XR8 is 1:12.3230 but that was with dead front rotars and full interiors. Should get that down to the sub 1:10's next season (with cage, interior delete, ac delete, etc).

[mattrobbo26]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

If the xr8 is the clear winner in this comparo, why is it that the SS outsells it in spades.

It goes to show that the car buying public don't rate a big hairy chested supercharged motor as much as other things such as looks, tech and interior appointments.

Not all people are car enthusiasts who count the kW and inspect dyno charts, they couldn't car less which is faster in a straight line or around a track which they will never attend

Considering the xr8 has only been on sale less than a month after being discontinued for the past 4 years it's no wonder the SS outsells it in spades.
(Bangs head against wall)

[SensationFG8]

You might not like hearing the SS is inferior I can accept that (although don't recall saying anything other than let's see more tests and it has less power), did you stop to think people on a ford forum might not enjoy being told their product is inferior too?

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by kypez

Here we go again!

One lousy test! Hope you never meet a statistician. The guy will die of a heart attack with your sample size of 1!

Back to back, I've driven the GT faster than an SS at the same circuit. So clearly its at least 1-1 or does that not fit your agenda?

Funny you should say that, I actually work with a few staticians and it's a part of my job to understand how we run and apply statistics to our block models, not to mention did stats at uni as part of my degree...so I have a perfectly sound understanding of sample size with respects to statistics and its impact on the data, thank you very much.

You could say the exact same thing about your driving that you've been saying about the guy from the review, you're used to driving the Ford therefore your laps using the Holden don't count as you may not know how to get the most out of the car around the circuit.

I'm going off my own experience having driven the same cars on the same roads under the same conditions and with my experience of owning them both as daily drivers, not just a review I read on the internet. I used to defend the Fords against the VF (but if you read some of the threads in the Non-Ford rides section of the forum you'll still see that I offered up constructive comments and compliments with respect to the areas I felt it was better than the Ford I owned at the time) but when I finally went in and looked at them seriously without my Blue Blood raging I saw them a little differently and appreciated it for what it was, not what it wasn't.

Whatever, I'm done with this thread. We're going in circles. Peace.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by kypez

...I've driven the GT faster than an SS at the same circuit...

Maybe you just don't know how to drive the SS properly like you claim of the driver not knowing how to drive the XR8 in the vid.....

[SensationFG8]

Don't think he'd dispute that to be honest chopped, ;)

They definitely drive differently.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Maybe you just don't know how to drive the SS properly like you claim of the driver not knowing how to drive the XR8 in the vid.....

Never said otherwise! In fact I've said that myself if you read my responses!

Just the like the bloke who did the test for caradvice or whatever, has a history of driving SS Commodores as part of his driving school!

All I've ever said is that 1 driver is a bad sample.

[mattrobbo26]

Originally Posted by mattrobbo26

Considering the xr8 has only been on sale less than a month after being discontinued for the past 4 years it's no wonder the SS outsells it in spades.
(Bangs head against wall)

Also considering the xr8 engine is hand built and only a limited number can and will be built, the ss will always outsell the xr8. I know which I'd rather.