GM have about 100 days to go??

[GK]

Obama will hand out the cash. It'd be a horrible way for the saviour as he's seen by many, to start his administration.

Even so, with all the money 700 Billion and counting being thrown around, where is it all coming from and who pays the interest?

More Middle Eastern oil dollars anyone?

GK

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

World wide there are too many car manufacturers.. one of the big ones must go.

yes & why is this so?

Because we let the Asains Copy the Western Industry & now they have Destroyed it!

If we need to reduce a few Car Makers why not get rid of Kia or Daewoo or Hyundi, Why oh Why did we allow this in the First place :

When the small Invaders started to come to our shores we should have said NO WAY will we buy your Crap Cars :

We only have ourselves to Blame Coz Many of us buy these things!

[Spanrz]

This is the main reason (IMHO) why Ford and GMH should be making and selling cars "LOCALLY".
But because our labour is so dear (expensive), they can not compete with O/S model prices.
They need to lessen their exposure to external markets, however that will never happen.
That's the only way to assist our economy, by using say 75% Aus market -25% O/S Market.

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Chapter 12

Chapter 12 Bankruptcy is strictly for Farmers and Fisherman

It doesn't relate to GM at all.


Chapter 11 reals with corporate restructuring and Chapter 7 is Liquidation

This is US law.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by GK

Obama will hand out the cash. It'd be a horrible way for the saviour as he's seen by many, to start his administration.

Even so, with all the money 700 Billion and counting being thrown around, where is it all coming from and who pays the interest?

More Middle Eastern oil dollars anyone?

GK

The $700 billion bailout (which has now ballooned to nearly $5 trillion!) was basically daylight robbery by the bankers. They are in complete control now, Obama is their front man.

The bankers own the US, the Federal Reserve is owned by private European banks!...did you know that every US dollar that's printed is actually borrowed money from these same banks with the US taxpayer as security for the interest ONLY payments!!

The derivatives market and the endless printing of fiat money is to blame for all this...

[JPFS1]

The auto industry is going through and will most likely go through what the aerospace industry went through years ago.

[mr smith]

If GM go down administrators will be in charge. They will call in all money owed and sell off what they can, including dumping excess vehicles for any return. This is very BAD for Ford, as they produce much the same they will be forced to discount to compete, reducing their earnings and falling into the hole as well.
To say they cant fail is foolish, just look at whats left of the British Car industry.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

yes & why is this so?


If we need to reduce a few Car Makers why not get rid of Kia or Daewoo or Hyundi, Why oh Why did we allow this in the First place :

When the small Invaders started to come to our shores we should have said NO WAY will we buy your Crap Cars

We only have ourselves to Blame Coz Many of us buy these things!

It seems that half you folks have no idea of reality in regards 2 this topic. The truth is the car makers THEMSELVES are at fualt. In short its fn greed. The big majors in Australia all form part of the AIG.
They themselves constantly derive costdowns from our local suppliers etc. When they can no longer compete, the majors head to asia looking for cheaper .
This is globalisation & free trade, except it aint on a level playing field. How does a western nation produce/compete at asian cost - they eat rice drink water, we eat steak drink beer and in a porcelain bowl.
Why do we have 10% tarrif, yet our export markets have up to 60% tarrif protection.
They sought these asian bases to increase their profits and did so, but their vision was short sighted. Look at holden as an example. The VE is now less than 50% local content and its new v6 is a barge considering its an all new development of approx 6 yrs. For GM to have not predicted the market so close as 6 yrs is a flop. Dont believe the sales figures, as half of the commodores recorded are employee lease cars. Holden has had more down day lay offs than Letterman being on tv. And 90% of its cars are .
Anyone care for a daewoo with a lion badge. Again they thought the public are dumb, niave and down right stupid. Barina, Viva Captiva ARE all a flop. Again this is greed. Thay HAD the good cars in the Vectra, Astra etc and spanish barina, but korean means less car sold at same rrp, more profit.
Im a lefty and can talk all day, but the truth is manufacturing will continue to go offshore as we speak and get bombarded with chinese . Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by mr smith

If GM go down administrators will be in charge. They will call in all money owed and sell off what they can, including dumping excess vehicles for any return. This is very BAD for Ford, as they produce much the same they will be forced to discount to compete, reducing their earnings and falling into the hole as well.
To say they cant fail is foolish, just look at whats left of the British Car industry.

I ANY of the 3 majors go down now, rest assured 1 more will follow. Remember half the suppliers supply the whole industry and are viable only with the 3.
If 1 falls, suppliers fall, meaning majors follow.

[mik]

it will be sad day to lose one of our local cars if this goes ahead, Holden have been one of our value for money family cars for many year`s (as has the Falcon), (On 29 November 1948, Prime Minister Ben Chifley unveiled the first Holden 48-215), i for one would rather see any of the asian or euro car makers close up shop than one of our locals allthough it`s unlikely, it would`nt surprise me if Toyota ended up owning a big part of Gm.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by fte50

Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

Spot on, we will be looking around in a decade or so asking "what happened?"

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by mr smith

If GM go down administrators will be in charge. They will call in all money owed and sell off what they can, including dumping excess vehicles for any return. This is very BAD for Ford, as they produce much the same they will be forced to discount to compete, reducing their earnings and falling into the hole as well.
To say they cant fail is foolish, just look at whats left of the British Car industry.

Private equity won't touch them. Not with debt books looking the way they do.

The brands will consolidate and the government will do what ever it takes to prevent the biggies from really going down.

[Sprint XR8]

This friday at 11am (us time) GM will announce third quarter results and "tell employees about important changes to our buisiness".
Text of memo GM sent to executives.http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...TO01/811050480
Important changes= you're fired.

[RSgerry]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

yes & why is this so?

Because we let the Asains Copy the Western Industry & now they have Destroyed it!

If we need to reduce a few Car Makers why not get rid of Kia or Daewoo or Hyundi, Why oh Why did we allow this in the First place :

When the small Invaders started to come to our shores we should have said NO WAY will we buy your Crap Cars :

We only have ourselves to Blame Coz Many of us buy these things!

The Asians havent destroyed anything. Quite simply, they copied designs, then made them better. We buy Japanese cars because they are better built than the local cars and dont break down. The build quality and dealer care from our Mazda dealer walks all over anything we had with our Falcon and Ford. On a global scale, build quality hasnt helped, but lack of product development has harmed GM and Ford. Building bigger and bigger "SUVs" (the word 'sports' in this is an oxymoron) for a market consisting of two countries was madness. The Japanese know this. They build cars that can be sold anywhere in the world.

Whilst this is specific to the car industry, the Japanese, and now the rest of Asia, are doing it to many other industries. They build better products, build them for less and pass those savings on to the consumer. What do western industries do when they make a cost saving? Announce a larger profit.

Welcome to a global market.

[mik]

Originally Posted by fte50

It seems that half you folks have no idea of reality in regards 2 this topic. The truth is the car makers THEMSELVES are at fualt. In short its fn greed. The big majors in Australia all form part of the AIG.
They themselves constantly derive costdowns from our local suppliers etc. When they can no longer compete, the majors head to asia looking for cheaper .
This is globalisation & free trade, except it aint on a level playing field. How does a western nation produce/compete at asian cost - they eat rice drink water, we eat steak drink beer and in a porcelain bowl.
Why do we have 10% tarrif, yet our export markets have up to 60% tarrif protection.
They sought these asian bases to increase their profits and did so, but their vision was short sighted. Look at holden as an example. The VE is now less than 50% local content and its new v6 is a barge considering its an all new development of approx 6 yrs. For GM to have not predicted the market so close as 6 yrs is a flop. Dont believe the sales figures, as half of the commodores recorded are employee lease cars. Holden has had more down day lay offs than Letterman being on tv. And 90% of its cars are .
Anyone care for a daewoo with a lion badge. Again they thought the public are dumb, niave and down right stupid. Barina, Viva Captiva ARE all a flop. Again this is greed. Thay HAD the good cars in the Vectra, Astra etc and spanish barina, but korean means less car sold at same rrp, more profit.
Im a lefty and can talk all day, but the truth is manufacturing will continue to go offshore as we speak and get bombarded with chinese . Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

this has been happening for year`s, half the people on this forum are too young to know or remember when we had service`s in oz that we fully owned, you can`t blame all of it on the car makers, the polly`s have been sabotaging our home grown manufacturing for year`s, i can remember when the country/government was in debt but the private sector was good, (we manufactured stuff....yes we did)and .... we owned stuff ...gas, electricity, water, public transport, telecom, ROADS, does anyone remember getting milk and bread getting delivered to the front door in the mornings...we had service`s, commonly jobs lasted 20 year`s or more,... banks are also guilty, we are now(private citizens) in this country more in debt than ever before (record debt) it follows that perhaps big buisness has perhaps been relying on credit more and more also, i suspect this is the case around the world also , and now deep doo doo many are in....:, i`ll go back into my cave now:

[fiesta8u]

well the holden dealership in rockdale will close in 1 month due to the financial global crisis, was in the local leader today.

[Sprint XR8]

GM $3b to $6b away from collapse, C11 by january, or sooner.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/an-...from-collapse/

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by fte50

It seems that half you folks have no idea of reality in regards 2 this topic. The truth is the car makers THEMSELVES are at fualt. In short its fn greed. The big majors in Australia all form part of the AIG.
They themselves constantly derive costdowns from our local suppliers etc. When they can no longer compete, the majors head to asia looking for cheaper .
This is globalisation & free trade, except it aint on a level playing field. How does a western nation produce/compete at asian cost - they eat rice drink water, we eat steak drink beer and in a porcelain bowl.
Why do we have 10% tarrif, yet our export markets have up to 60% tarrif protection.
They sought these asian bases to increase their profits and did so, but their vision was short sighted. Look at holden as an example. The VE is now less than 50% local content and its new v6 is a barge considering its an all new development of approx 6 yrs. For GM to have not predicted the market so close as 6 yrs is a flop. Dont believe the sales figures, as half of the commodores recorded are employee lease cars. Holden has had more down day lay offs than Letterman being on tv. And 90% of its cars are .
Anyone care for a daewoo with a lion badge. Again they thought the public are dumb, niave and down right stupid. Barina, Viva Captiva ARE all a flop. Again this is greed. Thay HAD the good cars in the Vectra, Astra etc and spanish barina, but korean means less car sold at same rrp, more profit.
Im a lefty and can talk all day, but the truth is manufacturing will continue to go offshore as we speak and get bombarded with chinese . Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

Basicly what he said^^^^

And to just touch on one point, I work in the Offshore Oil and Gas Industry, and when Varanus Is (Apache Energy) W.Australia had her gas explosion a few months ago the mining and industrial industry up there (plus the private sector all the way to Perth) and WA Govt where sh!$ing themselves on how to keep the lights burning, yet the Gas Buggies (ship carrying gas for export) never stopped taking it out of the country.

We are to tied up with overseas intrests (US, Japan etc) and when they fall we go with them, we sell everything, including Queensland, yet produce nothing, we have more natural resorces and minerals than most countrys on the planet, yet all we do is box up the raw materials and send it overseas and buy it back as consumer products.

Revolution is the only way........

[Nikked]

So Ford must have been i bit more sensible in its money spending...probally most of the desisions (No export, ending the I6, motorsport funding cutbacks) that people condemmed, have helped ford from suffering a simmiler situation to GM?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by mik

this has been happening for year`s, half the people on this forum are too young to know or remember when we had service`s in oz that we fully owned, you can`t blame all of it on the car makers, the polly`s have been sabotaging our home grown manufacturing for year`s, i can remember when the country/government was in debt but the private sector was good, (we manufactured stuff....yes we did)and .... we owned stuff ...gas, electricity, water, public transport, telecom, ROADS, does anyone remember getting milk and bread getting delivered to the front door in the mornings...we had service`s, commonly jobs lasted 20 year`s or more,... banks are also guilty, we are now(private citizens) in this country more in debt than ever before (record debt) it follows that perhaps big buisness has perhaps been relying on credit more and more also, i suspect this is the case around the world also , and now deep doo doo many are in....:, i`ll go back into my cave now:

You nailed it on the head there mate, and it is only going to get worse before it gets better.

What happend to making friends with your neighbours and knowing them for life, no, people these days are to busy building there property portfolios to be bothered getting to know who lives in the street, and where does all this investment capital end up??? usually overseas and tied to offshore investments, and when the house of cards comes tumbling down we try to blame someone else and scream for assistance.

Move over mate, any room left in the cave..........

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

if Holden go the Falcons would have no one to beat at Bathurst

Then we could have the old style reliability trials for the FPV's instead.... no sorry scrap that idea. ;)

[Wally]

before people go licking their chops, the problem is not confined to GM:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...NAU&refer=home

[ck11]

The Asians havent destroyed anything. Quite simply, they copied designs, then made them better. We buy Japanese cars because they are better built than the local cars and dont break down. The build quality and dealer care from our Mazda dealer walks all over anything we had with our Falcon and Ford. On a global scale, build quality hasnt helped, but lack of product development has harmed GM and Ford. Building bigger and bigger "SUVs" (the word 'sports' in this is an oxymoron) for a market consisting of two countries was madness. The Japanese know this. They build cars that can be sold anywhere in the world.

Whilst this is specific to the car industry, the Japanese, and now the rest of Asia, are doing it to many other industries. They build better products, build them for less and pass those savings on to the consumer. What do western industries do when they make a cost saving? Announce a larger profit.

Welcome to a global market.

Best post in the thread, glad to see that there are people who can think logically.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Bent8

...did you know that every US dollar that's printed is actually borrowed money from these same banks with the US taxpayer as security for the interest ONLY payments!!

The derivatives market and the endless printing of fiat money is to blame for all this...

I thought, he who held the most gold bullion, can print the money.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by fte50

It seems that half you folks have no idea of reality in regards 2 this topic. The truth is the car makers THEMSELVES are at fualt. In short its fn greed. The big majors in Australia all form part of the AIG.
They themselves constantly derive costdowns from our local suppliers etc. When they can no longer compete, the majors head to asia looking for cheaper .
This is globalisation & free trade, except it aint on a level playing field. How does a western nation produce/compete at asian cost - they eat rice drink water, we eat steak drink beer and in a porcelain bowl.
Why do we have 10% tarrif, yet our export markets have up to 60% tarrif protection.
They sought these asian bases to increase their profits and did so, but their vision was short sighted. Look at holden as an example. The VE is now less than 50% local content and its new v6 is a barge considering its an all new development of approx 6 yrs. For GM to have not predicted the market so close as 6 yrs is a flop. Dont believe the sales figures, as half of the commodores recorded are employee lease cars. Holden has had more down day lay offs than Letterman being on tv. And 90% of its cars are .
Anyone care for a daewoo with a lion badge. Again they thought the public are dumb, niave and down right stupid. Barina, Viva Captiva ARE all a flop. Again this is greed. Thay HAD the good cars in the Vectra, Astra etc and spanish barina, but korean means less car sold at same rrp, more profit.
Im a lefty and can talk all day, but the truth is manufacturing will continue to go offshore as we speak and get bombarded with chinese . Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

What exactly is "greed" anyway? is it the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation? In fact its a directors responsibility to ensure the business they control remains profitable..
I cant see any business besides no profit organizations turning their back on making money.. so in the context of the car manufacturers and their current financial woes its hard to see where they've been "greedy", because clearly not many of them are turning a profit....

[SB076]

GM is in trouble, however does this mean that the merger deal with Chrysler fell through? Chrysler had approx. $10 billion in borrowed funds it has access too, this money could be used to keep the merged company going (who knows for how long the way they are currently burning through funds) Plus GM has approached the Feds requesting a $$$ has this fallen through as well?

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What exactly is "greed" anyway? is it the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation? In fact its a directors responsibility to ensure the business they control remains profitable..
I cant see any business besides no profit organizations turning their back on making money.. so in the context of the car manufacturers and their current financial woes its hard to see where they've been "greedy", because clearly not many of them are turning a profit....

I think it's more a case of complacency rather than greed. They (Ford, GM, and to a lesser extent Chrysler) have had it so good for so long doing the same thing, that they didn't anticipate the coming changes. Meanwhile the Asian manufacturers have diversified, and now have a larger range of products. The only 2 hybrids I can think of for sale in this country is the Prius and the Civic hybrid. Ford STILL have an outdated LPG system, Holden has only recently got on board with factory LPG (VE? Not sure about VZ).

[SB076]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

I think it's more a case of complacency rather than greed. They (Ford, GM, and to a lesser extent Chrysler) have had it so good for so long doing the same thing, that they didn't anticipate the coming changes. Meanwhile the Asian manufacturers have diversified, and now have a larger range of products. The only 2 hybrids I can think of for sale in this country is the Prius and the Civic hybrid. Ford STILL have an outdated LPG system, Holden has only recently got on board with factory LPG (VE? Not sure about VZ).

I dont think the Asian manufacturers have diversified that much, decades ago they produced small efficient run abouts today they still produce small efficent run abouts, the so called "fuel crisis" has made the cars more attractive and hence there market share has increased. Hybrids are just an interim thing (IMHO - I cant really see the benefit in them, why pay $10,000 grand or so extra for a car that provides a benefit of a couple of litres per 100?) Will be interested where this leaves GM's volt (which would have been one of the worlds first fully electric cars)

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by BA Waggn

I thought, he who held the most gold bullion, can print the money.

No, the US dropped the gold standard back in 1971 I recall. It had tied its currency so as to set itself up as the worlds primary banked 'reserve'. What we have here is a printed bail vis;-

Atm, the US is borrowing between 2-3 billion US dollars per day from China and Japan. In turn, each holds increasingly worthless? US treasury bonds.

If the government were sitting on a pile of foreign reserves, then at least a stimulus plan could make some economic sense. But of course, that’s not where the money comes from. To finance their largesse, the government either borrows more money from abroad, or gets it from the Fed, which simply creates it out of thin air. Either way, we undermine our economy with additional debt or inflation.

Obama is in for a pig of a time.

US isn't actually the big problem, although is the most public one and the one that kicked off this drama, this drama has been expected for some years by a number expert commentators such as Peter Schiff et al. Its derivates btw are numerically small compared to those held in Europe and elsewhere in the world, by a factor of several trillion.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-30538,00.html

2009-2010 will be tough.

The US bail of 700 billion is insignificant compared to Japan's central bank pumping trillions of effective US dollars into the financial system, to negligible effect to date.

Back home, Australian's personal debt levels are appallingly high, people *must* eliminate personal debt in the form of CC's and lines of credit, these can, in most cases, be called up for immediate payment-in-full. Ditto certain types of non-typical consumer mortgage contracts loaned typically to more 'risky' individuals and couples, each financial product, regardless - if the borrower has defaulted or not.

If a company *really* needs urgent cash, then they can call it in. Reminds me of Murdocks warning about AUS being unprepared, and not in relation to the global economy.

One good thing; terror organisations will find it much harder to fund their activities!

http://www.europac.net/

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=WVDzQU311tc

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by mik

this has been happening for year`s, half the people on this forum are too young to know or remember when we had service`s in oz that we fully owned, you can`t blame all of it on the car makers, the polly`s have been sabotaging our home grown manufacturing for year`s, i can remember when the country/government was in debt but the private sector was good, (we manufactured stuff....yes we did)and .... we owned stuff ...gas, electricity, water, public transport, telecom, ROADS, does anyone remember getting milk and bread getting delivered to the front door in the mornings...we had service`s, commonly jobs lasted 20 year`s or more,... banks are also guilty, we are now(private citizens) in this country more in debt than ever before (record debt) it follows that perhaps big buisness has perhaps been relying on credit more and more also, i suspect this is the case around the world also , and now deep doo doo many are in....:, i`ll go back into my cave now:

I am old Enough to remember the Things you have Mentioned & Crave to have those days back & put a stop to this Globalization as at least 50 years ago we had a Manufacturing Industry & all the other things you Have Mentioned already.

One Day Countries will understand we need to put ourselves first & become a bit closed off from the rest of the World & it will Improve things for those who do.

As for that other Poster, I do not think a Kia or Daewoo are Better quality Vehicles than what we Make here & they did Copy & Learn from us(Western Auto Makers) many years ago which we should have never let happen in the first place.

I do remember the first Datsuns & Toyota's that came into the Country & How People scoffed at them saying they would never sell well & they surely did not see them as a threat to our Local Industry (boy were they wrong).

People Buy Australian & help your Country before it is too Late :

Maybe it is Already too Late :(