FPV outsells HSV in jan '09

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Really??

So what additioanl functionality would an F6X have over an XC90?? or an X3?? or even an S3 Disco??

All of these others are much more capable (functional) off road than a Territory will ever be, don't take it from me, you can go and have a chat to the bloke that runs the off road courses in Rockbank. His words not mine "The territory is the least capable off roader I have ever had on my property doing an off road familiarisation course, ever."

Sure the F6 might be quick, but most people buying an SUV don't care about that, they want as many airbags as they can get seeing as most do carry the kids. They want the safest environment they can afford to move there kids and family around in, they want creature comforts, they want SUNROOFS.

My brother was looking at an F6X or at least a TT but went with a Kluger because it's actually bigger in the third row, and it comes with a sunroof, it suits there needs.

PERFORMANCE.
The Terri is not a serious off road vehicle.
List Every Large euro SUV with 270+KW and can cover the 1/4 in high 13 seconds?
Dont drag pointless gutless 4wd's or shopping trolleys into the debate, we're talking Performance large SUV's.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You infered it though.

Dealers "source" cars from other dealerships all the time.. what's your point?
"Smart" sales people can close a sale without letting price being the number 1 factor. Discounting heavily is just a poor lazy way of selling, at the end of the day giving away margin is pointless if the customer is set on what he wants.

Kinda agree there...........

My BFGT purchase was based on a very small initial price discount, but the dealer absolutely LOADED the sale with so many extras that it made it very difficult to go past. I guess if his operating margins and supplier relationships etc are better than the next dealer, he can afford to offer other things at reduced cost or better cost than the next guy which still retains the inherent value of the car but makes the OVERALL buy seem a better deal.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

VW Passat R36 Wagon?

Cheaper, Better featured and Faster (straight line, corners, you name it).

Too small, not a SUV .

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You inferred it though, i don't believe people suddenly want a new GT just because its 5K cheaper.. discounting usually tempts people to go the next model up, but its no good if they loose margin in the process just to shift a car....

Actually it's $5K plus the difference between it and the next model up, so if a GT-P is say $75K then that's a $20K saving as GT-P's are not bought into stock unless it's a demo.

GT on the other hand you might find they have stock of three or four as they sell much more easily, so when sales are slow put a few k's on one, write it up as a demo and write it off on the sale. Again easy, it's not rocket science.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Dealers "source" cars from other dealerships all the time.. what's your point?
"Smart" sales people can close a sale without letting price being the number 1 factor. Discounting heavily is just a poor lazy way of selling, at the end of the day giving away margin is pointless if the customer is really set on what they want.

My point is that many sales people aren't doing this as it means having to take a lesser commision, that's my point, sure some do but that's only because they always have.

Price will always be the #1 factor in any sale regardless of what your thoughts on it might be, apart from the supermarket, no where else actually expects to get 100% of sales at full ticket.

You go into a TV retailer and they expect you to haggle, so they put prices up according to how special they want to make you feel. The same goes with the auto industry, they expect "most" customers will want to haggle a little so adjust pricing accordingly, it's all part of the game/art of buying/selling on the open market.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Flappist, in regards to the high end models not selling I think it may be simply a case of the execution.

The idea is right, but there simply is not enough differentiation between the models. I am not talking cosmetics, more the bells and whistles.

A GT-E is not a cheap car, yet doesn't really offer anything tangible over a GTP.

The GT-E is a completely different style to the GT-P as in not "racer" and costs the same. How can that not be tangable?

Unfortunately any comment that implies emotion overides logic always draws emotional responses on here. The FPV GT seems to have almost surpassed the T3 in drawing out tantrums on the forum.
"I just want one" is the catch cry (stolen by red of course).

Looking at the arguements.

Most people don't want extra more expensive goodies? Well why would they even concider buying a GTHO?

It would cost more because it has better goodies that a GT, like a GT-P or GT-E, no that does not work.
It would be quicker than a GT, like an F6, no that does not work.

It would have the letters GTHO on it. Yep that's it. Now where is the logic over emotion in paying extra for a badge? None but many many just WANT one.

The GT Falcon really is the Harley Davidson of the Australian car industry. If you have to ask why then you will not understand the answer.

But then again, ask your wife/girlfriend why she needs so many shoes and see if you understand THAT answer.........

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Too small, not a SUV .

F6X: AWD

Length: 4856mm
Width: 1898mm
Height: 1714mm
Luggage capacity with 2nd row upright: 523L

R36: 4Motion AWD

Length: 4820mm
Width: 1820mm
Height: 1456mm
Luggage capacity with 2nd row upright: 588L

They are very similar in size both in exterior and interior dimensions (excluding height difference).

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

The GT-E is a completely different style to the GT-P as in not "racer" and costs the same. How can that not be tangable?

Unfortunately any comment that implies emotion overides logic always draws emotional responses on here. The FPV GT seems to have almost surpassed the T3 in drawing out tantrums on the forum.
"I just want one" is the catch cry (stolen by red of course).

Looking at the arguements.

Most people don't want extra more expensive goodies? Well why would they even concider buying a GTHO?

It would cost more because it has better goodies that a GT, like a GT-P or GT-E, no that does not work.
It would be quicker than a GT, like an F6, no that does not work.

It would have the letters GTHO on it. Yep that's it. Now where is the logic over emotion in paying extra for a badge? None but many many just WANT one.

The GT Falcon really is the Harley Davidson of the Australian car industry. If you have to ask why then you will not understand the answer.

But then again, ask your wife/girlfriend why she needs so many shoes and see if you understand THAT answer.........

Logic and emotion are usually never associated with these cars (in a good way), if there was then no one would buy these cars in the first place.

Anyway, GT-E vs GTP, the only difference is a lack of rear spoiler and some covered up bits on the front bar. Thats it. The GT-E needs more than that if its to be an alternative for anything euro. So it has less and they charge you more...hmm...I wonder why its not selling.

If you wanted to take it further, I think a F6-E doesn't exist because the G6ET is so good. Why would you bother with a FPV version when there is no major difference. A GT/F6-E client wont be hitting the track with it in a hurry so it doesn't really need brembo's etc.

Meh...not my bottom line so they are digging their own grave at a rapid pace.

As for a GTHO, well I hope they never do it, better of spending the cash on making their current line up do better.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

PERFORMANCE.
The Terri is not a serious off road vehicle.
List Every Large euro SUV with 270+KW and can cover the 1/4 in high 13 seconds?
Dont drag pointless gutless 4wd's or shopping trolleys into the debate, we're talking Performance large SUV's.

You've totally missed the point, sure the F6X might be quicker in a straight line but not everyone in this price range wants outright speed, comfort, more importantly creature comfort is what they want.

I never tried to compare them for performance, rather put it in the price range of vehicles it competes with.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

The GT-E is a completely different style to the GT-P as in not "racer" and costs the same. How can that not be tangable?

Unfortunately any comment that implies emotion overides logic always draws emotional responses on here. The FPV GT seems to have almost surpassed the T3 in drawing out tantrums on the forum.
"I just want one" is the catch cry (stolen by red of course).

Looking at the arguements.

Most people don't want extra more expensive goodies? Well why would they even concider buying a GTHO?

It would cost more because it has better goodies that a GT, like a GT-P or GT-E, no that does not work.
It would be quicker than a GT, like an F6, no that does not work.

It would have the letters GTHO on it. Yep that's it. Now where is the logic over emotion in paying extra for a badge? None but many many just WANT one.

The GT Falcon really is the Harley Davidson of the Australian car industry. If you have to ask why then you will not understand the answer.

But then again, ask your wife/girlfriend why she needs so many shoes and see if you understand THAT answer.........

you can't use logic and sense here, you'll just confuse most people.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Polyal

As for a GTHO, well I hope they never do it, better of spending the cash on making their current line up do better.

That is a good point. The F6 has been proven to be a great package car, but the BOSS seems to always be bagged (well in OZ). I think 2010 will see a great GT package.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by flappist

The GT Falcon really is the Harley Davidson of the Australian car industry. If you have to ask why then you will not understand the answer.

But then again, ask your wife/girlfriend why she needs so many shoes and see if you understand THAT answer.........

How many threads must you poison with your negative comments about the GT............geez mate..........why don't you just go and start a petition about banning the GT......see how many signatures you can muster up.....start your own personal crusade...........you could then log back on here every 6 months and tell us how it's going..........sheeeeeeesh..............did someone you know die in one of these cars or something !!!!!!!!!!

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

F6X: AWD

Length: 4856mm
Width: 1898mm
Height: 1714mm
Luggage capacity with 2nd row upright: 523L

R36: 4Motion AWD

Length: 4820mm
Width: 1820mm
Height: 1456mm
Luggage capacity with 2nd row upright: 588L

They are very similar in size both in exterior and interior dimensions (excluding height difference).

The Audi All Road would be quite similar and also have considerably more ground clearance, on that the previous model actually had more ground clearance than the current Q7. So if you're looking for something euro with good ground clearance and a quick economical twin turbo diesel then go for an early 00's All Road, something Audi salesman won't tell you LOL.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

You've totally missed the point, sure the F6X might be quicker in a straight line but not everyone in this price range wants outright speed, comfort, more importantly creature comfort is what they want.

I never tried to compare them for performance, rather put it in the price range of vehicles it competes with.

Huh???.. People don't shop solely by price point, they shop by category determined by needs and functionality, then price becomes a secondary consideration..
Again.. in case you didn't understand the first time, if you were looking for a Large performance based SUV 270+KW etc List all of then.. then list their prices.
The base territory range covers the vast majority of SUV consumers, F6X is aimed at PERFORMANCE suv customers, not joe average just looking for a luggage and people mover.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Logic and emotion are usually never associated with these cars (in a good way), if there was then no one would buy these cars in the first place.

Anyway, GT-E vs GTP, the only difference is a lack of rear spoiler and some covered up bits on the front bar. Thats it. The GT-E needs more than that if its to be an alternative for anything euro. So it has less and they charge you more...hmm...I wonder why its not selling.

If you wanted to take it further, I think a F6-E doesn't exist because the G6ET is so good. Why would you bother with a FPV version when there is no major difference. A GT/F6-E client wont be hitting the track with it in a hurry so it doesn't really need brembo's etc.

Meh...not my bottom line so they are digging their own grave at a rapid pace.

As for a GTHO, well I hope they never do it, better of spending the cash on making their current line up do better.

Have you actually been to a FPV shop and actually seen a GT-E, GT-P, F6 and G6ET?
Go and sit in a GT-P and then a GT-E and see if they are the same.

A GT-P is to a GT-E what a XR6T is to a G6ET, same but completely different.

As far as your marketing logic, the lack of an F6-E model is the primary reason why there is a 350Z in my shed at the moment and I DO hit the track on the odd occaision.

[05_ENFORCER]

Hang on, I'll just go and get a beer.
This is great! :

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

Have you actually been to a FPV shop and actually seen a GT-E, GT-P, F6 and G6ET?
Go and sit in a GT-P and then a GT-E and see if they are the same.

A GT-P is to a GT-E what a XR6T is to a G6ET, same but completely different.

As far as your marketing logic, the lack of an F6-E model is the primary reason why there is a 350Z in my shed at the moment and I DO hit the track on the odd occaision.

I know full well the difference, or lack of. Price wise its something crazy like $25-30k! Anyway I am sure ive had this discussion with you before:

And you would hit the track in an auto?

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by ESP

How many threads must you poison with your negative comments about the GT............geez mate..........why don't you just go and start a petition about banning the GT......see how many signatures you can muster up.....start your own personal crusade...........you could then log back on here every 6 months and tell us how it's going..........sheeeeeeesh..............did someone you know die in one of these cars or something !!!!!!!!!!

LOL he doesn't hate them, he owned one from what I know very early on.

Most people that currently drive an F6 actually owned a Boss powered Ford before going to the F6, I owned an XR8 Boss, I loved the V8 roar and the presence and the way most people thought it was a GT LOL. To be honest I miss it a bit,

but mine was a little different and did stand out in a crowd I guess you could say, I wish sometimes I had supercharged it, I probably would have kept it, maybe. But on a performance scale straight out of the box you simply can't beat an F6,

it's lighter, quicker, turns better, much much much better on fuel, well when you're foot isn't getting cramps all the time

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Huh???.. People don't shop solely by price point, they shop by category determined by needs and functionality, then price becomes a secondary consideration..

Ummmmm ye that's what I said.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Again.. in case you didn't understand the first time, if you were looking for a Large performance based SUV 270+KW etc List all of then.. then list their prices.
The base territory range covers the vast majority of SUV consumers, F6X is aimed at PERFORMANCE suv customers, not joe average just looking for a luggage and people mover.

The problem, seeing as you still don't get it, is that once the minister of finace works out how much an F6X is unless she is a leadfoot is going to want something that has what she wants. So all the lighted mirrors and reversing cameras and bits and bobs and shiny little borbles will get approval from said minister.

The only people, excuse me guys I should have said, that buy an F6X are those that will be driving it primarily themselves.

The whole point of the discussion was why the F6X doesn't sell, not about how well placed it is in the performance market, about how an F6X relly isn't much chop over a TT Ghia and yet commands quite a premium over said TT.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I know full well the difference, or lack of. Price wise its something crazy like $25-30k! Anyway I am sure ive had this discussion with you before:

And you would hit the track in an auto?

From fpv.com.au

http://www.fpv.com.au/configure--price.aspx

GT-E entry price 78,190; GT-P entry price 77,190.......

Interestingly, the majority of FPVs that have seen any track at all are autos.

If/when I buy another new F6 or GT-E it will be an auto. For general road/hi-way use it is a lot easier to drive and my new wife does not like driving manuals. She would not drive my old F6 or the Z.

I will keep the Z or buy something else for track (T3s and early BA GTs are getting cheap now) as in order to get a new F6 to handle well enough for track work it will be a bit rough and low for everyday use in regional areas, as I found out with my previous FPVs.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by flappist

And this is the enigma.

A significant percentage of FPV buyers seem to be more interested in looks and appearance than performance, safety or comfort.

F6 is faster and lighter than GT at same cost but GT sells more.
GT-P and GT-E are superior to GT but GT sells more.
F6X is quite superior to TT but F6X sells slowly.

It has to be emotion as there is very little logic. I wonder if this is why there has never been a FPV GTHO.
The high end products despite extra performance, better brakes, better handling, better interior are all constantly outsold by "basic GT with stripes and bonnet decal".

Developing and releasing a $100k++ GTHO only to find it sells like the W427 would not be good for FPV at all.

Flappist, With all due respect, You make some valid points, however you are not 100% correct. I just bought a GT, not an F6 or GT-P, BTW, I did not get stripes either, and really, I don't want them.

Heres my reasons why I went for a GT over the GT-P or F6.

GT-P - I will be driving this on public roads every day, a "Daily Driver" + a family car, as awesome and comfy as the GT-P seats were, I did not think them practical for daily driving, the higher bolsters were IMHO, just a pain in the butt for getting in and out of, day in, day out, several time per day. Plus, IMHO the taller head rests look like something of the movie coneheads. The 6/4 POT brembos. Not needed for a street vehicle, The 4/1 Brembos/PBRs are more than enough. I could not justify the extra 10K cost for either of these differences.

F6 - Well I get asked this question all the time " why a GT when an F6 is much quicker". Well, my answer to that is, people seem to be quick to forget what GT actually stands for. I personally did not want a balls to the wall performance car with a boosted 6 cyl engine. I wanted a V8, I have driven V8's for 15 yrs. yeah, yeah, F6 is is more powerful, lighter, faster, etc,etc. However, at the end of the day, It was just NOT what I wanted. Some do, some don't, not everyone is the same.

The F6 is an awesome car, a bloody awesome car, but just not for me.
The GT-P again an awesome car, but just not for me, not what I wanted.

Now, Why did I get a GT over another XR8, Well in MY opinion it is more comfortable, it handles better, looks better and goes better.

It was my choice, I looked at and drove the others, but at the end of the day the GT was what I wanted, I'm more than happy with it, I love it. :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ESP

How many threads must you poison with your negative comments about the GT............geez mate..........why don't you just go and start a petition about banning the GT......see how many signatures you can muster up.....start your own personal crusade...........you could then log back on here every 6 months and tell us how it's going..........sheeeeeeesh..............did someone you know die in one of these cars or something !!!!!!!!!!

No emotion in that........

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

The problem, seeing as you still don't get it, is that once the minister of finace works out how much an F6X is unless she is a leadfoot is going to want something that has what she wants. So all the lighted mirrors and reversing cameras and bits and bobs and shiny little borbles will get approval from said minister.

The only people, excuse me guys I should have said, that buy an F6X are those that will be driving it primarily themselves.

The whole point of the discussion was why the F6X doesn't sell, not about how well placed it is in the performance market, about how an F6X relly isn't much chop over a TT Ghia and yet commands quite a premium over said TT.

I'll try it the other way for you, if performance wasn't a serious/primary consideration then why would anyone be looking at a F6X (or even a TTG) in the first place?
Maybe it doesn't sell, (like the GT-E) because the 75-100K price point is a void for performance consumers, maybe 65-70k is about all anyone can tolerate and the next price point is a jump to 120K which is getting into a totally different socio-economic demographic.... where Porsche/AudiQ7/X5 performance SUV variants are becoming attractive.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Grunter

I still see red when Rod B talks about the F6X. A great SUV and had they put more (any) effort into making it look like a FPV vehicle, then I believe they would have sold significantly more, even with the original RRP. Hell I was down for one prior to release and pulled out because it looked no different to the TT

Just to refresh your memory 4man, this is what the debate was over, not about performance, a TT ghia is around the high 50's early 60's so just outside the Euro models I suggested. This is why the TT will sell before the euros, if price is the main factor then most will buy this, but when an F6X as stated by the poster looks visually about the same as it's $15K cheaper sibling how could anyone possibly justify buying it unless they are looking solely at performance.

Which correct me if I'm wrong but this was not mentioned as any kind of consideration.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Just to refresh your memory 4man, this is what the debate was over, not about performance, a TT ghia is around the high 50's early 60's so just outside the Euro models I suggested. This is why the TT will sell before the euros, if price is the main factor then most will buy this, but when an F6X as stated by the poster looks visually about the same as it's $15K cheaper sibling how could anyone possibly justify buying it unless they are looking solely at performance.

Which correct me if I'm wrong but this was not mentioned as any kind of consideration.

You're assuming people only shop on aesthetics though, i agree, If performance wasn't a consideration why would you buy it.
The F6X interior is allot different to the TTG though...
You wouldn't bother even looking at euro SUV @75K if performance wasn't a consideration and just buy a std non turbo Terri Ghia for 50K.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I'll try it the other way for you, if performance wasn't a serious/primary consideration then why would anyone be looking at a F6X (or even a TTG) in the first place?

Did you stop to think that some people buy the more powerful version of any model vehicle simply because they need to tow something like a large boat or caravan??

Sure it's not hooked up all the time, but tell that to all the horse float people with the V8TT Sahara 200/Lexus.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The F6X interior is allot different to the TTG though...

Not by any considerable amount as to justify spending the premium over the TT, most that buy SUVs want to stand out and if alot of people think you have the lesser version then you've failed.

Most go by looks before anything else, if you don't like the aesthetics of a car, be it body or interior then you most likely won't buy it, regardless what it is. If it feels uncomfortable, you won't buy it, if it doesn't really do what you need you may buy it but you will hate it.

Emotion is the biggest factor in any purchase, be it a car or a condom

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You wouldn't bother even looking at euro SUV @75K if performance wasn't a consideration and just buy a std non turbo Terri Ghia for 50K.

to be honest if I was in the market for a performance SUV I wouldn't even consider the F6X, I would easily justify the premium to go to either an X5 4.8, or Touareg R50. But that's just me, I'd rather a performance SUV that if I decided to take on safari I knew had some kind of pedigree as well as the fact that the manufacturer would have very little issue should I break something.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jgb

Flappist, With all due respect, You make some valid points, however you are not 100% correct. I just bought a GT, not an F6 or GT-P, BTW, I did not get stripes either, and really, I don't want them.

Heres my reasons why I went for a GT over the GT-P or F6.

GT-P - I will be driving this on public roads every day, a "Daily Driver" + a family car, as awesome and comfy as the GT-P seats were, I did not think them practical for daily driving, the higher bolsters were IMHO, just a pain in the butt for getting in and out of, day in, day out, several time per day. Plus, IMHO the taller head rests look like something of the movie coneheads. The 6/4 POT brembos. Not needed for a street vehicle, The 4/1 Brembos/PBRs are more than enough. I could not justify the extra 10K cost for either of these differences.

F6 - Well I get asked this question all the time " why a GT when an F6 is much quicker". Well, my answer to that is, people seem to be quick to forget what GT actually stands for. I personally did not want a balls to the wall performance car with a boosted 6 cyl engine. I wanted a V8, I have driven V8's for 15 yrs. yeah, yeah, F6 is is more powerful, lighter, faster, etc,etc. However, at the end of the day, It was just NOT what I wanted. Some do, some don't, not everyone is the same.

The F6 is an awesome car, a bloody awesome car, but just not for me.
The GT-P again an awesome car, but just not for me, not what I wanted.

Now, Why did I get a GT over another XR8, Well in MY opinion it is more comfortable, it handles better, looks better and goes better.

It was my choice, I looked at and drove the others, but at the end of the day the GT was what I wanted, I'm more than happy with it, I love it. :

No that is exactly my point. You bought what you wanted.

This whole debate started off as a FPV GTHO/F6X/whatever dissection and I put forward that just because there are technically superior models does not mean that they will automatically sell. (please note that there is more to the term "technically superior" than 0-400m times).

If FPV are to release a GTHO then it will have the be bigger faster better gooder then everything else and will subsequently cost lots more.

FPV buyers now have a 6 year history of NOT buying the bigger faster better gooder models and sticking with the basic GT. This is a FACT.

So I believe that FPV are unsure whether the GTHO, if made, will sell enough to make it profitable and whether this car will sell to those who would not have otherwise bought another FPV product and so it sits in a box in the corner next to the "square tuit".

[zx10]

Originally Posted by flappist

No that is exactly my point. You bought what you wanted.

This whole debate started off as a FPV GTHO/F6X/whatever dissection and I put forward that just because there are technically superior models does not mean that they will automatically sell. (please note that there is more to the term "technically superior" than 0-400m times).

If FPV are to release a GTHO then it will have the be bigger faster better gooder then everything else and will subsequently cost lots more.

FPV buyers now have a 6 year history of NOT buying the bigger faster better gooder models and sticking with the basic GT. This is a FACT.

So I believe that FPV are unsure whether the GTHO, if made, will sell enough to make it profitable and whether this car will sell to those who would not have otherwise bought another FPV product and so it sits in a box in the corner next to the "square tuit".

I agree with the point about the bigger better versions not always selling in greater numbers. I do however think that a GTHO would sell in a quantity(definately not bigger numbers than GT) to make it a viable option to ford. Why not scrap the GT-P and make a GTHO instead. Give the customers a real variant other than different seats and bigger brakes.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

you can't use logic and sense here, you'll just confuse most people.

Especially when the topic being discussed is one that includes a large measure of emotion in it's purchasing decision.

Beside what may be your "logic and sense" is another mans pompous dribble. ;)
(that's not a shot at Flappist btw)

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by flappist

No that is exactly my point. You bought what you wanted.

This whole debate started off as a FPV GTHO/F6X/whatever dissection and I put forward that just because there are technically superior models does not mean that they will automatically sell. (please note that there is more to the term "technically superior" than 0-400m times).

If FPV are to release a GTHO then it will have the be bigger faster better gooder then everything else and will subsequently cost lots more.

FPV buyers now have a 6 year history of NOT buying the bigger faster better gooder models and sticking with the basic GT. This is a FACT.

So I believe that FPV are unsure whether the GTHO, if made, will sell enough to make it profitable and whether this car will sell to those who would not have otherwise bought another FPV product and so it sits in a box in the corner next to the "square tuit".

And again.....like so often......you've missed the point.......

A GTHO will / should be based on a GT.........If they make a GTHO.........that is bigger faster better gooder as you so eloquently put...........IT WILL SELL.

You seem to be hell bent on the fact that because the F6 is a poorer seller than the GT that the sky is falling down and therefore a GTHO cannot sell.

As I stated earlier..........the majority of FPV buyers seem to buy the GT because it is still seen as the aspirational model.......for now. I stated in another thread that I have a gut feel that the FORD V8 program really only has a 5 year lifespan anyways..............so after that..........who knows.

I wonder how many F6HO's would sell if FPV decided to make a penultimate model based on the F6 ?????.............they'd probably go bust.